That, some injury niggles to key players (Casemiro, Varane, Shaw & Martinez(?)), and some taking it easy after the League Cup win.
Workrate
- Thread starter Pogue Mahone
- Start date
A little sad that this thread was never bumped when United were riding high. What have the stats been for the period between that Brentford defeat and yesterday?
Sure, I never catch these stats (posted by journos) unless we've been spanked. But I'd like to see as detailed stats as possible for each game (ourselves and opponents).
Sorry, I didn't aim that comment about you specifically - more generally to anyone who was interested in posting on and looking up workrate until things started looking up.
In general though, those stats exist and aren't hard to come by. From a very quick search, I already found this page given total distances covered for all teams in the period before the WC:
Which Premier League team have run the furthest? (premierleague.com)
Interestingly, all top teams outside Spurs are among the teams with least distance covered, with United only a little behind City, Liverpool, and Arsenal. Add those Brentford kilometers, and the distance is almost bridged.
So us being quite close to City/Liverpool/Arsenal is a big improvement on previous seasons?
I’d love to see a graph of our distance/game over time. Surely has to be dropping off over the course of our recent insane schedule.
Didn't take it that way. But those stats are a total, which doesn't really give too much context. Like Pogue is saying, would be interesting to see the evolution over the course of the season and I'd really like to see head to head stats for each game. I don't understand why this isn't offered by broadcasters in the same way as other particular stats are, pretty vital.
A further breakdown would be greatly informative too, of individual players.
Is there a sound reason for this not being offered generally? I understand there are ways to pay for those stats, but surely they're not owned by a particular entity - can it be that difficult to gather them? Would it cost the broadcasters anything more than a mere fraction while giving more value to the viewers?
Makes sense, teams with more possession will have less as teams without the ball tend to chase more. Dunno about Spurs but 6/7 of those teams on the left side have poor possession stats,
Actually, come to think of it: if all the top teams are near the lower end of that list, is being below a good sign?!
I say this jokingly, but it does indicate the complexity of these stats. It looks like total distance covered doesn't say much on its own, but we rather should be looking at a combination of distance covered, sprints, possession, and xG to get a sense of whether workrate was sufficient in individual matches - and then see how the overall impression evolves over the course of a season and in comparisons to previous matches to similar opposition.
(I suppose some of this was covered in previous pages, but I don't have time to read the entire discussion back now.
)Have taken this post from another thread. Is this team showing the same old failing, yet a-fecking-gain?!
Honestly. Is it too much to ask for a team with notions of winning trophies to get very fit and run very hard? So sick of being out worked. It has to be the most annoying thing to watch in football.
Both Spurs goals directly contributed to by a general lack of effort and running. Guys like Bissouma and Ben Davies running from deep through a 3 man midfield and 4 man defence without anyone ever tracking and getting touch tight.
I wonder who the worst offenders are. I'd say Rashford for sure. Luke Shaw, Garnacho. Who else? Antony wasn't great either. Reacted too slow to what's happening and didn't track back as well as usual. Casemiro is slow but wanders around a lot, I'm not sure if his stats are bad. His speed is bad though.
In the first 20 minutes we seemed to press like loons and I thought 'this is great, but we can't keep it up'. Perhaps we're not only unfit but a bit dim as well
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Looks like we're finally getting players in the squad who will actually out-work the opposition. Great to see.
Apparently Hannibal also broke records for distance covered vs Burnley, running 12.9km. Further than any United player since Ten Hag arrived at the club. Further than any United player since they began collecting these records in 2019.
100 pressures in 90 minutes is actually mindblowing. 79 from Hojlund is huge too. Ronaldo averaged <7!
Really really impressive stats from Hannibal, absolute machine. But you see it as well, feels like he is everywhere fighting for the ball or showing himself for a pass.
Looks like we're finally getting players in the squad who will actually out-work the opposition. Great to see.
Apparently Hannibal also broke records for distance covered vs Burnley, running 12.9km. Further than any United player since Ten Hag arrived at the club. Further than any United player since they began collecting these records in 2019.
100 pressures in 90 minutes is actually mindblowing. 79 from Hojlund is huge too. Ronaldo averaged <7!
Any idea what a little energizer bunny like Fred had? Felt like he put in a proper shift most games.
So clear how much a of a difference even one or two players in the starting 11 make when it comes to working hard off the ball. Imagine a full line up of them
Watching Hojlund against Brighton was an eye opener. A forward who was pressing with intensity and seeing the shock on his face when he turned round to realise no one else was bothering .
Maybe younger players who actually listen to instructions and want to run for the team are the way to go surprisingly...
Maybe younger players who actually listen to instructions and want to run for the team are the way to go surprisingly...
Yep been saying it, going to have a huge impact essentially swapping Eriksen, martial, whoever at RW for Mount, Amrabat and Hojlund. So much more physicality, defensive work rate and better positioning that it'll make a world of difference defensively as a group. Rashford obviously isn't good defensively, but you can cover for him as a group and have him be the constant counter threat, keep their players back to make sure they're watching him.
Going from the midfield combo of Eriksen, Casemiro and McTominay who all stopped running after 20minutes to Hannibal who does it for the entire game should be the eye opener for Ten Hag.
We'll see a big difference in Casemiros form with mobile players next to him. Hopefully this will give Ten Hag a bit more confidence to play our youngsters a bit more. Granted we'll have games when the likes of Hannibal has a stinker but that's why you have a substitute bench.
We'll see a big difference in Casemiros form with mobile players next to him. Hopefully this will give Ten Hag a bit more confidence to play our youngsters a bit more. Granted we'll have games when the likes of Hannibal has a stinker but that's why you have a substitute bench.
High Effort and Workrate should be an absolute if you get the opportunity to get on the pitch when playing for United or hell for that your local pub team
out of all the things you can not control, this is something you absolutely can and if you aren't willing to put in the effort then you should be in the stands with the drunks
ffs...how the feck do you think Klopp became the manager he is today?? heavy metal football with a bunch of guys who would run their socks off even if they weren't the most talented 11, they were consistently creating chaos. easier to score when you're winning the ball 30 yards from goal than building up from your own goal keeper
out of all the things you can not control, this is something you absolutely can and if you aren't willing to put in the effort then you should be in the stands with the drunks
ffs...how the feck do you think Klopp became the manager he is today?? heavy metal football with a bunch of guys who would run their socks off even if they weren't the most talented 11, they were consistently creating chaos. easier to score when you're winning the ball 30 yards from goal than building up from your own goal keeper
youthful exuberance right there got Hannibal out of position so he busted his arse to get back.....reverse can be said for that big donkey at the end who couldn't be bothered as his runner goes right before him for the pass and he turns like 2 ton rhino trying to recover
Great to see. Can’t believe how we’ve fallen behind in something so “simple” like “work rate” - not just against the top sides, but most sides.
I remember Rangnick suggesting this and lots of people on this forum running riot about how this is Manchester United and you can't do that here.
No coincidence with Rashford out of the team that we look like a team with eleven players again.
Is that because that well known workaholic, pressing machine, Anthony Martial took his place?
I mean, generally speaking, you'd be right. Martial is a lazy feck. But last night, not so. He actually put in a shift.
Martial is actually much better than Rashford at pressurising despite the languid style and lack of fitness.
Looks like we're finally getting players in the squad who will actually out-work the opposition. Great to see.
Apparently Hannibal also broke records for distance covered vs Burnley, running 12.9km. Further than any United player since Ten Hag arrived at the club. Further than any United player since they began collecting these records in 2019.
100 pressures in 90 minutes is actually mindblowing. 79 from Hojlund is huge too. Ronaldo averaged <7!
Wouldn't read too much into it. Hannibal has always been a very hard worker, and both him and Hojlund are new to the team so trying to make an impression. Also a very small sample of games to take this from. They've only started what, three games in the PL between them?
Not that the stats aren't encouraging but I'd be happier if it was Fernandes/Rashford on there. Or if it coincided with a game where we didn't struggle to look like a better team than Burnley.
I do think Hojlund COULD be a difference maker though. He never leaves the CBs alone and doesn't crumble to the floor the instant he has his back to goal like all our other forwards.
Looks like we're finally getting players in the squad who will actually out-work the opposition. Great to see.
Apparently Hannibal also broke records for distance covered vs Burnley, running 12.9km. Further than any United player since Ten Hag arrived at the club. Further than any United player since they began collecting these records in 2019.
100 pressures in 90 minutes is actually mindblowing. 79 from Hojlund is huge too. Ronaldo averaged <7!
This may well just be complete coincidence, but looking at those 3 other players, not a single one has played a 90 minute match this season. They’ve all either been subs themselves, or been a starter but been subbed off.
I can’t work out whether that’s
a) a symptom of having more and more substitutions allowed
b) they’ve been subbed because they are knackered after so much pressing
c) (related to b), there is a deliberate game-plan by some managers that basically says I want you to play in such a high energy way that it’s not achievable over a full game, and it’s planned from the start that you give an hour of high intensity running and then get subbed.
Or d), it’s just a coincidence, not enough matches have been played to trust that the pattern is significant.
He's certainly not 'good' at pressing, but Martial is better than he gets given credit for. Like you say, his languid style makes him look worse than he actually is. I remember ETH mentioning last season how Martial was clever with his positioning and how he pressed.
Well we both know Garnacho took his place for a start.
There's a lot more expected defensively being an LW rather than a CF, although I understand why Rashford fans might not understand this.
The bar for work rate has been set very low for a long period of time. It’s refreshing watching players actually sprinting back towards our goal and genuinely trying to close players down rather than just half heartedly moving towards them, it should be a minimum requirement.
The fact Mctominay has been seen as a hard worker tells you everything, he’s by no means the only or worst culprit but when people talk about him being someone who puts in lots of effort it shows how far standards have fallen.
The fact Mctominay has been seen as a hard worker tells you everything, he’s by no means the only or worst culprit but when people talk about him being someone who puts in lots of effort it shows how far standards have fallen.
Remind when Rashford last played on the left wing?
The difference a workhorse makes.
I still have no idea why a sizable portion of United fanbase still consider McTominay a hard worker. It is just like a false collective memory like Torres ripping Vidic apart every time he played against us while he scored 3 goals in 14 games
Make the ball run rather than the players, work smarter not harder.
Obviously it's good to have high activity players but there's probably some truth to those truisms.
Replying to an old post, apologies.
Just read the OP.
Bizarre that our workrate collapsed so dramatically as soon as the Greatest Manager Ever was appointed.
I don’t remember it being bad in LVG’s time.
Bizarre that our workrate collapsed so dramatically as soon as the Greatest Manager Ever was appointed.
I don’t remember it being bad in LVG’s time.
That's true, but his single running performance is better than any single United performance that there is data for (since 2019). The best of any PL player this season too.
recalling Rashford was an enthusiastic kid with high work rate in the first couple years he bursted into the first team? Hope Garnacho, Hannibal won't follow Rashford's trajectory in terms of workrate