Workrate

RedStarUnited said:
Solskjaer: 'A Manchester United team should never be outworked, you should run more than them.'

It sounds so simple but somehow we didnt do it enough under Jose.
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I love this. I play and coach football and it's exactly what I expect of myself and team mates when we play. It's also something I try to encourage the kids to think about too.
At the end of the day you can hold your hands up and say we were beaten by a better team but I'd hate to have to say we lost due to them trying harder than us.
 
The one added factor is that simple stuff like this, gives the crowd a boost. Seeing our players actually run / sprint to chase down the ball to get it back, is something so obvious but always get a cheer from the crowd in the stadium.

It was so annoying to see under Jose that we were being outworked by most teams and relying on an individual brilliance or luck. This might work occasionally against the smaller teams, but will not (as seen this season) against the bigger teams.
 
It's a shame a lot of these stats aren't available to the public you often have to pay for them.
I just saw a video where Don Hutchinson said he saw a stat saying we had more high-intensity sprints in the 90 against Spurs than at any point under Jose.
I would love to see the stats under Ole and compare it to Jose's time and also other teams. I've looked everywhere and can't find them.
 
Anyone have stats since Ole came in? Interseting to see the difference.
 
Catt said:
Anyone have stats since Ole came in? Interseting to see the difference.
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Taken from this article: https://www.skysports.com/football/...7867/solskjaer-restoring-united8217s-identity

Earlier in the article it states that the average under Mourinho this season was 99 spirints per game, while up to the Leicester game (so not including Fulham), it was 111 under Solskjaer.

I did a search for "distance covered" but can't find anything written in the last month concerning United, other than Matic being the United player who has covered the most distance so far this season.
 
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In the CL this season, who runs further per 90 mins on the pitch:

Young, Shaw, Bernat or Dani Alves ?

Draxler or Lingard ?

Martial, Sanchez or Neymar ?

Cavani, Rashford or Lukaku ?

(Answers: the PSG full-backs average about 10.5 Km per 90 mins, Shaw manages 10.0, Young 9.84. Draxler and Lingard equal on 11.5. Neymar's 10.0 beats Sanchez's 9.7, while Martial's 8.7 is uncompetitive. Cavani and Rashford both about 10.2, Lukaku almost 1 km behind at 9.3)
 
kundalini said:
In the CL this season, who runs further per 90 mins on the pitch:

Young, Shaw, Bernat or Dani Alves ?

Draxler or Lingard ?

Martial, Sanchez or Neymar ?

Cavani, Rashford or Lukaku ?

(Answers: the PSG full-backs average about 10.5 Km per 90 mins, Shaw manages 10.0, Young 9.84. Draxler and Lingard equal on 11.5. Neymar's 10.0 beats Sanchez's 9.7, while Martial's 8.7 is uncompetitive. Cavani and Rashford both about 10.2, Lukaku almost 1 km behind at 9.3)
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Problem with this is, all games were under Jose where we sucked at covering distance. Should check stats for PSG game only as we have improved a lot in this area.

Edit: yeah ManUtd covered less distance than PSG on Tuesday. 100.8km vs 102.7
 
roonster09 said:
Problem with this is, all games were under Jose where we sucked at covering distance. Should check stats for PSG game only as we have improved a lot in this area.

Edit: yeah ManUtd covered less distance than PSG on Tuesday. 100.8km vs 102.7
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When Mourinho was in charge, different players playing the same position, would cover significantly different distances. For instance, Dalot played one match in the CL this season and ran 10.7 km. It wasn't even a game that required tons of running as we led 2-0 at half-time and were 3-0 up after 66 mins. The main reason we sucked at covering distances was due to him buying and selecting players who can't run that much: Zlatan, Lukaku, Valencia, Young etc

Last night Spurs ran 113.3 km. Dortmund 114.6 km. Ajax 111 km. Real Madrid 106 km. The night before Roma 113 km, Porto 112.

Against Juventus away, they ran 106 km, United 100 km. For the home game, we managed 105 km, Juventus 112 km.

Away at Young Boys, they ran 108 km, United 107.8 km. For the home game, United 112.2 km, Young Boys 116.7 km

Valencia home United managed 99.6 km, Valencia 104.4 km. Valencia away Valencia 113 km, United 107.5 km
 
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kundalini said:
When Mourinho was in charge, different players playing the same position, would cover significantly different distances. For instance, Dalot played one match in the CL this season and ran 10.7 km. It wasn't even a game that required tons of running as we led 2-0 at half-time and were 3-0 up after 66 mins. The main reason we sucked at covering distances was due to him buying and selecting players who can't run that much: Zlatan, Lukaku, Valencia, Young etc

Last night Spurs ran 113.3 km. Dortmund 114.6 km. Ajax 111 km. Real Madrid 106 km. The night before Roma 113 km, Porto 112.

Against Juventus away, they ran 106 km, United 100 km. For the home game, we managed 105 km, Juventus 112 km.

Away at Young Boys, they ran 108 km, United 107.8 km. For the home game, United 112.2 km, Young Boys 116.7 km

Valencia home United managed 99.6 km, Valencia 104.4 km. Valencia away Valencia 113 km, United 107.5 km
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Why you mentioning Valencia as a player who didn’t cover a lot of distance? Have you checked the numbers on that? His crossing might be shite and he might be über hesitant in trying to get past his man, but he’s been up and down that wing like a boss, with no let up.

If the numbers don’t bear that out I’d be terribly surprised.
 
Eriku said:
Why you mentioning Valencia as a player who didn’t cover a lot of distance? Have you checked the numbers on that? His crossing might be shite and he might be über hesitant in trying to get past his man, but he’s been up and down that wing like a boss, with no let up.

If the numbers don’t bear that out I’d be terribly surprised.
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Valencia averages just under 9.8 Km per 90 mins in the CL this season, that's 0.9 Km less than Dalot and slightly less than Shaw, fairly close to Young's figure. (stats from UEFA's website, they give total distance covered and mins played, I did the calculation)

Pogue Mahone posted figures for last season much earlier in this thread (post 392). He used a per minute basis but for Valencia it translates to 9.3 km per 90 mins (marginally less). The respective figures for Darmian and Young last season were 10.0 km and 9.9 km per 90 mins.

Slightly off-topic, but imagine if we appoint Pochettino, he will be horrified by the amount of distance our players cover. The likes of Luke Shaw and Anthony Martial would be very fortunate to be starters if he used the same philosophy.
 
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Although United's overall running stats have gone down - from 108.1km per game for the entire team when Mourinho was in charge this season, to 107.7km under Solskjaer - United's total sprints under the Norwegian have increased from 98.6 to 108.6 per game.

For anyone who's interested.
 
Manutd covered 112 kms vs PSG, our season high in CL. Average was 105 kms.

PSG covered 108 kms against us, even their average is 105 kms.
 
roonster09 said:
Manutd covered 112 kms vs PSG, our season high in CL. Average was 105 kms.

PSG covered 108 kms against us, even their average is 105 kms.
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Pretty good that, work rate can make quite a difference.

Surprisingly, we covered most distance against Basel at home before last night: 112.2 against Basel vs 112.3 against PSG.
 
roonster09 said:
Manutd covered 112 kms vs PSG, our season high in CL. Average was 105 kms.

PSG covered 108 kms against us, even their average is 105 kms.
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The no is incredible considering we had very low possession rate, which meant we did a lot of movement without the ball. By pushing PSG's coverage we managed to tire them down, particularly towards the last 15min. I believe this must be Ole's game plan.
 
cyril C said:
The no is incredible considering we had very low possession rate, which meant we did a lot of movement without the ball. By pushing PSG's coverage we managed to tire them down, particularly towards the last 15min. I believe this must be Ole's game plan.
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We tried to tire them down by running further than them? No, we tried to defend well and patiently wait for our chance(s).
 
Funny game. I wonder if we would have won with Matic and Pogba in midfield instead of the energy of Fred and McTominay, which was really absolutely what was required. I know both Matic and Pogba have had decent stats under Ole as well.

Have to give Fred and McTom credit though, they worked really hard and actually looked after the ball when they had it too.
 
Treble said:
We tried to tire them down by running further than them? No, we tried to defend well and patiently wait for our chance(s).
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Both. On defending which we did most of the time, extra work rate to cover gaps. On counter-attack we pushed them to work harder. You might notice that PSG slowed down considerably in 2nd half and in particular after 70th, which could be due to tactics, but we did improve on ball possession which led to the goal. One of the criticism of PSG was that they slowed down alright but did not keep the ball as much as before.
 
sincher said:
Funny game. I wonder if we would have won with Matic and Pogba in midfield instead of the energy of Fred and McTominay, which was really absolutely what was required. I know both Matic and Pogba have had decent stats under Ole as well.

Have to give Fred and McTom credit though, they worked really hard and actually looked after the ball when they had it too.
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Don't forget Hererra. He's a Durcacell bunny who would have run himself into the ground last night.

Not to take away from Fred/McT, though, who worked their socks off.
 
Treble said:
We tried to tire them down by running further than them? No, we tried to defend well and patiently wait for our chance(s).
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It's interesting that last night we played the sort of game that saw us out-worked by every other PL team under Mourinho. Defend deep and in numbers, then try to pick them off on the break.

The fact we did this and still ran 4km more than the opposition must be down to us committing much more numbers forward as soon as we win the ball than we did when we were consistently bottom of the workrate table.
 
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Pogue Mahone said:
It's interesting that last night we played the sort of game that saw us out-worked by every other PL Mourinho. Defend deep and in numbers, then try to pick them off on the break.

The fact we did this and still ran 4km more than the opposition must be down to us committing much more numbers forward as soon as we win the ball than we did when we were consistently bottom of the workrate table.
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I noticed at one point Rashford did a weak cross/possible shot from the left that came to nothing, but the wider picture was a break of 4 United players bearing down fast on 3 or 4 defenders. It fits in, and it was good!
 
In the press conference Solskjaer said that we just need to add a few attributes to the squad, as in what we saw against PSG. Total running distance, that was the highest we've had. He wants us to be the hardest working team in the league. He demanded that of his Molde team. He said the top teams run more than us; that's not acceptable. We need to keep working on the fitness. Mentioned Giggs and Beckham getting up and down the wing.

Solskjaer said "when you play for Man United, you can't just be - well I'm talented, I'll just do my magic when I get the ball - that's not enough, that's not going to be enough if we want to challenge the top two."

Then went on about Warren Joyce's training sessions in the reserves being the hardest you could imagine. Youngsters need to train harder than the first team squad players that are trying to displace. First team players need to be even fitter, in order to keep youngsters from taking their place.

2nd half of press conference, done for Sunday papers, from about 11.30 onwards.

 
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kundalini said:
In the press conference Solskjaer said that we just need to add a few attributes to the squad, as in what we saw against PSG. Total running distance, that was the highest we've had. He wants us to be the hardest working team in the league. He demanded that of his Molde team. He said the top teams run more than us; that's not acceptable. We need to keep working on the fitness. Mentioned Giggs and Beckham getting up and down the wing.

Solskjaer said "when you play for Man United, you can't just be - well I'm talented, I'll just do my magic when I get the ball - that's not enough, that's not going to be enough if we want to challenge the top two."
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That sums it all up with modern football.

Workrate is no.1, talent is no.2. Can't be more spot on.
 
kundalini said:
In the press conference Solskjaer said that we just need to add a few attributes to the squad, as in what we saw against PSG. Total running distance, that was the highest we've had. He wants us to be the hardest working team in the league. He demanded that of his Molde team. He said the top teams run more than us; that's not acceptable. We need to keep working on the fitness. Mentioned Giggs and Beckham getting up and down the wing.

Solskjaer said "when you play for Man United, you can't just be - well I'm talented, I'll just do my magic when I get the ball - that's not enough, that's not going to be enough if we want to challenge the top two."

Then went on about Warren Joyce's training sessions in the reserves being the hardest you could imagine. Youngsters need to train harder than the first team squad players that are trying to displace. First team players need to be even fitter, in order to keep youngsters from taking their place.

2nd half of press conference, done for Sunday papers, from about 11.30 onwards.

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He's right. If you wanna be top dog then set the bar in every aspect of the game, that will scare teams.
 
https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league-running-stats-reveal-14184242

Distance covered:

1. Bournemouth
...
5. Liverpool
7. Arsenal
8. Spurs
10. Chelsea
12. City
18. United

Total sprints:

1. Liverpool
5. City
6. Arsenal
8. Spurs
10. Chelsea
14. United

No data only about Ole's period but overall our work rate has been worse than that of the other top 6 teams. Liverpool have run a lot which raises questions whether they will be able to finish strongly. Salah and Robertson are 2nd and 3rd respectively for most sprints in the league.
 
the amount of time people literally WALKING back when watfrod broke through the middle (or left, or right for that matter) was disgraceful

Why, why being Manchester United player seemingly means you don't need to work as hard anymore?
 
That performance made me sympathise with Mourinho. We looked like a bunch of unfit drunks for most of the game and the hating the manager excuse is out of the window.

It'll be papered over because we won but it was quite astonishing how slow and off the pace we looked. Nine times out of ten a performance like that ends with an utterly humiliating result.
 
noodlehair said:
That performance made me sympathise with Mourinho. We looked like a bunch of unfit drunks for most of the game and the hating the manager excuse is out of the window.

It'll be papered over because we won but it was quite astonishing how slow and off the pace we looked. Nine times out of ten a performance like that ends with an utterly humiliating result.
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There's no more Mourinho to hide behind, and there's a lot to fight for yet this season if we are to play CL football next season.

It is a little concerning that the players seem to be slipping back in to old habits. Ole needs to be ruthless because he will have all the backing to do so.
 
This was not a surprising performance. After an international break against a very decent and well organised team. I'll take this.

Let's not forget that Ole did not get to do a pre-season with the players. He is going to smash them I tell you and make us the fittest team in the land. And those who can't make the cut will be gone. Trying to play Ole's style with Jose's more tactical and less fit team leads to injuries. Which it did just a while back .
 
noodlehair said:
That performance made me sympathise with Mourinho. We looked like a bunch of unfit drunks for most of the game and the hating the manager excuse is out of the window.

It'll be papered over because we won but it was quite astonishing how slow and off the pace we looked. Nine times out of ten a performance like that ends with an utterly humiliating result.
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The players have always been the major problem for me. Let's not forget that Jose had one of the best winning percentages of any of our managers before him at one stage, so results weren't necessarily always the issue. But Ole seems to have settled on playing more or less the same way as Jose. Same lineup, Mata occupying that false RW position that had baffled us all, deep defending and counter, slow passing, no movement in attack, 20 yards between attack and defence at times etc. All things our previous manager was blamed for. Then we still have the same inconsistency from our midfielders and attackers.

The issue with Jose is that he didn't smile and carry on. Towards the end he clearly started to dislike a lot of players that weren't following out his ideas, which got him the sack. At least I felt confident that Jose was hell bent on doing something about it. I just hope Ole is equally as unhappy with what he's seeing (performance wise, results have been fine overall) and he is willing to make the hard calls to improve us.

If anybody thinks we'll get the consistency required over a season to win titles with the bulk of this team then they're deluded. City and Liverpool have really raised the standards this season in the league and we need to be brutal in shaping our next team if we're to catch up.
 
noodlehair said:
That performance made me sympathise with Mourinho. We looked like a bunch of unfit drunks for most of the game and the hating the manager excuse is out of the window.

It'll be papered over because we won but it was quite astonishing how slow and off the pace we looked. Nine times out of ten a performance like that ends with an utterly humiliating result.
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While it’s fair to say not EVERYTHING was Mourinhos fault, he only made things worse. it’s clear this squad has fitness issues and we need more energy in midfield especially. While Matic and Herrera are good in their own right they just don’t have enough speed to cover the pitch to play a pressing game.
 
iluvoursolskjær said:
There's no more Mourinho to hide behind, and there's a lot to fight for yet this season if we are to play CL football next season.

It is a little concerning that the players seem to be slipping back in to old habits. Ole needs to be ruthless because he will have all the backing to do so.
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Couldn't agree more. Overall performance not good enough.
 
It was a shocking performance and to use the international break as an excuse is ridiculous as well. Why was Watford so sharp? Perhaps there is truth in a few players wanting to get a massive rise or leave thinking they can just turn up, Pogba for example. Ole needs to bollock the lot of them. Shaw was MOM for us and the workrate he put in should be shown to the squad as whats expected every game or they wont play. We still cant judge Ole until he has had a pre season training them to be the fittest and most hardworking side.
 
Treble said:
https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league-running-stats-reveal-14184242

Distance covered:

1. Bournemouth
...
5. Liverpool
7. Arsenal
8. Spurs
10. Chelsea
12. City
18. United

Total sprints:

1. Liverpool
5. City
6. Arsenal
8. Spurs
10. Chelsea
14. United

No data only about Ole's period but overall our work rate has been worse than that of the other top 6 teams. Liverpool have run a lot which raises questions whether they will be able to finish strongly. Salah and Robertson are 2nd and 3rd respectively for most sprints in the league.
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Would love to know the stats under Ole. As it stands, this update tells us nothing we didn’t know when the thread was started.
 
noodlehair said:
That performance made me sympathise with Mourinho. We looked like a bunch of unfit drunks for most of the game and the hating the manager excuse is out of the window.

It'll be papered over because we won but it was quite astonishing how slow and off the pace we looked. Nine times out of ten a performance like that ends with an utterly humiliating result.
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Or maybe, just maybe, his rubbish managing of this team and the clear lack of fitness boils down to him.

You do not want to be chasing fitness during the season and thats exactly what has happened since Ole came on because we had to.
 
noodlehair said:
That performance made me sympathise with Mourinho. We looked like a bunch of unfit drunks for most of the game and the hating the manager excuse is out of the window.

It'll be papered over because we won but it was quite astonishing how slow and off the pace we looked. Nine times out of ten a performance like that ends with an utterly humiliating result.
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Weird post.
 
mariachi-19 said:
Or maybe, just maybe, his rubbish managing of this team and the clear lack of fitness boils down to him.

You do not want to be chasing fitness during the season and thats exactly what has happened since Ole came on because we had to.
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Exactly. Well said.
 
At the highest level, fine margins decide games and every edge counts. Work rate and fitness are essential, be it off the ball movement to create and exploit space or pressing opponents and tracking runners to choke off space. The team has a lot of room for improvement and this has to be addressed through training, recruitment and tactics.
 
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