Workrate

“In derbies, the form book goes out of the window”

...an oft cited cliche, and indeed we got result against a superior City team last time.

Does make you think though that if players can put the effort in for select games, why can’t they do it all the fecking time?
 
Strachans Cigar said:
“In derbies, the form book goes out of the window”

...an oft cited cliche, and indeed we got result against a superior City team last time.

Does make you think though that if players can put the effort in for select games, why can’t they do it all the fecking time?
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Because inferior players are occasionally capable of raising their standards, but over 38 games the best quality will shine through.
 
Feed Me said:
Because inferior players are occasionally capable of raising their standards, but over 38 games the best quality will shine through.
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Yes, but if the best players also in theory raise their standards against the motivated dross, quality should still prevail?
 
Strachans Cigar said:
Yes, but if the best players also in theory raise their standards against the motivated dross, quality should still prevail?
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Football and sport in general doesn’t work like that. You can’t underestimate the psychological aspect of being an underdog in a team sport. It also works the other way with over confidence which leads to complacency. Something we saw a lot last season
 
Adisa said:
I refuse to believe we have a lazy team.
We've been consistently at the bottom for the past three seasons, despite so many personnel changes.
It's tactical.
It's up to Mourinho and I'd like him to explain to me why we wait till the opposition are yards away from our box before we close the space. What's the advantage?
Our lack of pressing, as a team is doing my head in and it's killing us imo.
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Of course it’s tactical. Citing ‘lazy’ players is an easy way to justify the manager’s position. Variables like pressing, number of sprints, distance covered is always reflective of tactical choice.

Has anybody watched Leeds United this season? They run the way they do as a direct result of their manager’s ideas.

So do we. We like to sit back, keep shape and exploit spaces in the opposition when they arise. We don’t do it particularly well, but that’s another discussion altogether.
 
Adisa said:
Waiting to see if we get outrun today. I've always thought you make up differences in quality by working much harder than the opponent.
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Spoiler alert, we do.
 
Adisa said:
Waiting to see if we get outrun today. I've always thought you make up differences in quality by working much harder than the opponent.
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We will for sure. Ive just accepted that its how we play. Its infuriating to watch but theres nothing we can do.
 
I thought it was painful today. Compared to City, we looked like massive lazy cnuts. I get that their positional play is also much better, but i thought our workrate was a disgrace today.
 
A bit more workrate would be nice.

But the flipside is that we're fresher at the end of matches which is when we tend to score a lot goals.
 
Why do other teams look sharper and faster? I'm not just talking City, even Derby County did. What's with us? Lingard out-sprinted by Fernandinho, he's 33!
 
Interesting quote in ESPN about Pep.

Last May, having conquered England in record-breaking style, the Manchester City manager told Sky's Monday Night football programme about his City squad: "I try to convince them to run like the most humble team in the world. If they don't do that, they don't play: They sit beside me on the bench. I can forgive everything, but if they don't run, they don't play. You have to run in football. That is one of our secrets: More than tactics, spirit, you try to run."

If Mou tells his players to work hard and run and they don't, they should also not play. Bench the whole lot of them. Far from being an ogre, I think Mou is getting too soft.
 
Marcus said:
Interesting quote in ESPN about Pep.

Last May, having conquered England in record-breaking style, the Manchester City manager told Sky's Monday Night football programme about his City squad: "I try to convince them to run like the most humble team in the world. If they don't do that, they don't play: They sit beside me on the bench. I can forgive everything, but if they don't run, they don't play. You have to run in football. That is one of our secrets: More than tactics, spirit, you try to run."

If Mou tells his players to work hard and run and they don't, they should also not play. Bench the whole lot of them. Far from being an ogre, I think Mou is getting too soft.
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He's the same, football has become more dynamic and intense.
 
Workrate has been diabolical for many years now. It's like there isn't a figure in this club who have the authority and character to enforce it. Players come here and look like they're on vacation. Collect the money, play shite, sack the manager, rinse and repeat.

It all starts at the top and goes from there. Incompetence at every level. The only thing we're capable of is signing sponsors because of our name. And that's basically it.
 
And lack of quality from the wings and midfield...just shocking is all I can say.
 
Didn’t even look like they was fecking trying. No fecking urgency.
 
We start with a lazy front 6 that includes Martial, Lukaku, Pogba & Matic and actually make it worse by bringing off the two players who actually press from the front.

It's baffling... It's as if Mourinho has a quantum of laziness in his teams whereby we can't have more than two hard workers at once.

It's strange since we could comfortably field a team of hard workers with the likes of Fred, Herrera, Lingard, Mata, Rashford & Sanchez. At least then adding one or two lazier players (say Pogba and Martial) wouldn't be a problem as they'd have plenty of legs around them.

As normal however Lukaku and Matic stay on and we swap Pogba who's talented and lazy for Fellaini who's less talented and lazy. Truly bizarre.
 
It is baffling how little of a shit some of them seem to give. You see people in the park or Sunday league playing for nothing who visibly care more about winning than a majority of our team.

And yeah the weirdest thing is how we refuse to pick people who do try hard. Its a very basic principle of any job. Who will do it better? A bunch of peole who are good at it but can't be bothered to do it at all? Or a bunch of people who are slightly less good at it but will try their hardest?
 
Agree with you and you do not see Messi slacking off in Bara high press style. I would love to see Roy Keane as part of the coaching team and let him keep the players on their toes.
 
The worst culprits keep getting picked. Starts from the top.
 
They must of been not to press. Townsend was running around in our half with nobody trying to press him.
 
Yet again, Jose says they lacked heart and desire in the post match presser. I remember him saying that in his first year that the players weren't motivated for the Europa league games. Last year also against Huddlesfield and a few other times and once again today. Which players is he referring to? Pogba is an obvious choice and Martial but Lukaku and Matic seem to be his favourites, Mata always gives it his best, same for Ashley Young.

I didn't see the game but it sounds as if the running/sprinting stats were low and it was lethargic as usual.
 
The lack of running/tracking/pressing seemed very noticeable yesterday.

Can anyone tell me where I can find the actual stats showing distance covered by each player? I would like to see if it was quite as bad as it appeared to me.
 
It's all down to coaching - bring in a coach like Poch, Howe or Tuchel and you will see the work rate go through the roof.
 
Can we really be surprised we're were we are considering that we buy players whose characteristics are more suited to Bolton and use tactics which are more suited at Stoke? I mean look at the side. Can you see the likes of Smalling, Lindelof, Young, Fellaini, Matic, Lingard, Lukaku and Bailly at Real?
 
The man is a spoofer. His words are making me angry. He complains about a lack of intensity,yet consistently plays the most immobile players.
This was my post before the game.
Adisa said:
Look at the midfield Mourinho selected. Then watch him complain about intensity and lack of energy at the final whistle.
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If he wanted intensity,why not start Sanchez ahead of Lukaku, why not pack the midfield with runners like Herrera and Fred? Who does this man think he is fooling?
 
noodlehair said:
It is baffling how little of a shit some of them seem to give. You see people in the park or Sunday league playing for nothing who visibly care more about winning than a majority of our team.

And yeah the weirdest thing is how we refuse to pick people who do try hard. Its a very basic principle of any job. Who will do it better? A bunch of peole who are good at it but can't be bothered to do it at all? Or a bunch of people who are slightly less good at it but will try their hardest?
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It’s not all that baffling. They stopped playing for this manager a while ago. Every now and then professional pride will kick in (e.g. when they’re facing a humiliating defeat) but otherwise they just can’t be arsed. The players - just like the fans - are just going through the motions while they wait for a fresh start, under a new manager.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
It’s not all that baffling. They stopped playing for this manager a while ago. Every now and then professional pride will kick in (e.g. when they’re facing a humiliating defeat) but otherwise they just can’t be arsed. The players - just like the fans - are just going through the motions while they wait for a fresh start, under a new manager.
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Weren't United at the bottom in his first season as well? Might be a combo of instructions and not giving a feck though.
 
We have the biggest team in the league or thereabouts. I don't think it's a coincidence.
I hink it's multi factored. Pogue is right that the players have stopped playing for him but it's pretty clear Mourinho doesn't really place emphasis in it. We've been at the bottom for sprints and distance covered since he came here.
He has consistently shown he is willing to sacrifice mobility for height in the team. You won't get a lot of running from a midfield Matic, Pogba and Fellaini Lukaku. Yesterday we substituted Fellaini for Mata, another player not known for his engine.
Then you have tactical factors. Mourinho prefers defending small spaces rather than big spaces. We close down space rather than winning the ball. A team like ours with our tactics won't cover a lot of ground.
It's not hard to see why we are like this.
 
Red Katie said:
Weren't United at the bottom in his first season as well? Might be a combo of instructions and not giving a feck though.
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Yeah, that’s a fair point. The lack of distance covered is definitely tactical. I was mainly referring to the generally lackadaisical approach we’re seeing this season. Playing like they don’t give a shit because they kind of don’t give a shit.
 
Adisa said:
We have the biggest team in the league or thereabouts. I don't think it's a coincidence.
I hink it's multi factored. Pogue is right that the players have stopped playing for him but it's pretty clear Mourinho doesn't really place emphasis in it. We've been at the bottom for sprints and distance covered since he came here.
He has consistently shown he is willing to sacrifice mobility for height in the team. You won't get a lot of running from a midfield Matic, Pogba and Fellaini Lukaku. Yesterday we substituted Fellaini for Mata, another player not known for his engine.
Then you have tactical factors. Mourinho prefers defending small spaces rather than big spaces. We close down space rather than winning the ball. A team like ours with our tactics won't cover a lot of ground.
It's not hard to see why we are like this.
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Generally agree with you but I’d nit-pick re Fellaini. He used to be a competitive 10k runner, has a great engine and would often cover the most ground of any of our players.

Although, obviously, that won’t happen when he gets his standard cameo as a target for defenders to smash the ball towards when we’re chasing the game.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
It’s not all that baffling. They stopped playing for this manager a while ago. Every now and then professional pride will kick in (e.g. when they’re facing a humiliating defeat) but otherwise they just can’t be arsed. The players - just like the fans - are just going through the motions while they wait for a fresh start, under a new manager.
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Even if this is the case, professional pride seems to kick in worryingly rarely for a group of professional athletes. It is baffling how someone makes it to the top level when they only take pride in their performance at rare moments of their choosing. Does this happen anywhere near as often in any other sport?
 
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