I’d love to see individual stats. I can’t think of any rational reason why the whole team wasn’t working harder than usual to fight back after conceding those early goals. The fact that they seemed to have responded by downing tools really blows my mind. Two games in and the players have given up. Useless, lazy twats.
Workrate
- Thread starter Pogue Mahone
- Start date
I’d love to see individual stats. I can’t think of any rational reason why the whole team wasn’t working harder than usual to fight back after conceding those early goals. The fact that they seemed to have responded by downing tools really blows my mind. Two games in and the players have given up. Useless, lazy twats.
I think it really only dawned on me again how little passion and what a shitty attitude our team is displaying after watching Liverpool against Palace and not because of Liverpool but because of Palace. A team vastly more limited than ours show way more cohesion, work ethic and positive attitude towards their job than our team. How did we get to the point where I sit there thinking, man I wish our team show some of that spirit instead of just knocking the ball about aimlessly looking like they don't even want to be on the pitch.
I can stomach a team giving it their all an losing but I can't stomach it if they can't be bothered at all. It's so irritating and infuriating and it has been like this for the majority of the time since SAF left which is the worst part, that no matter what manager we had during those 5 years the team looked lifeless in almost every match bar the occasional big game.
I can stomach a team giving it their all an losing but I can't stomach it if they can't be bothered at all. It's so irritating and infuriating and it has been like this for the majority of the time since SAF left which is the worst part, that no matter what manager we had during those 5 years the team looked lifeless in almost every match bar the occasional big game.
Remember how Ronaldinho dribbled/jiggled while staying at the same place to bamboozle Carvalho? Maybe we're going for something like that.
Being behind for almost the whole match and breaking the record for least distance covered. You have to laugh at us. Does anyone have this kind of stat from Fergie era comebacks? Or even defeats? I'm thinking the numbers will be quite different.
Being behind for almost the whole match and breaking the record for least distance covered. You have to laugh at us. Does anyone have this kind of stat from Fergie era comebacks? Or even defeats? I'm thinking the numbers will be quite different.
So if I read the data correctly, if we run around a bit less we will be playing like Barcelona and Real Madrid? Awesome. Let's buy Anderson back.
Your OP shows that we are running less than other teams anyways and this has been something which has been happening since mourinho joined so its more tactical than anything else.
Who did they try and get sacked in the first place?
Both of our last two managers?
That is embarassing.
Mourinho tells them all not to run I'm sure.
Brighton harried us off the park on Sunday, they had three of them pressing us in the corner in second half injury time.
Mourinho tells them all not to run I'm sure.
Brighton harried us off the park on Sunday, they had three of them pressing us in the corner in second half injury time.
As PM said, it'd be interesting to see indvidual stats too.
The thing is tactically we are not organized for high mileage, the wide players mainly play in a limited area of 60 meters long and they don't really tuck in all that much either, the CBs are extremely conservative and don't cover vertically or laterally. Then you have the CMs outside of Pogba no one really play box to box, Lukaku for the most part is stuck between the opposition CBs, sometimes he moves right or drop but that's not that common and he doesn't make a all lot of runs vertical or diagonal. United is an extremely rigid unit with players stuck in imaginary boxes.
And there is a lack of aggression and will to defy instructions.
Seem to be making wise choices.
Pogba, as bad as he was did seem to put in a shift, as did Shaw. Not sure about the rest, though Lukaku & Martial looked comatosed. Funny thing is, if Sanchez had started, despite playing poorly, we probably wouldn't have gotten this record.
So the manager who comes under huge criticism for only wanting grafter and workhorses instructs them not to run?
its like you people pluck out the first criticism that comes to mind.I can guarantee Martial, Lukaku and Mata were the main cause of those reduced numbers. The ball never got to them and they didn't bother making runs.
I remember last season Matic was like 5th in the league for distance travelled and Martial was on average the same as Smalling which says a lot
I remember one of the quotes either mentioned by SAF himself in an interview, or quoted by his players, that he said something like "You are talented players, but you just have to have to match their workrate".
It is not enough to be the supposedly talented, skilful, potential worldies if you don’t marry it with good workrate. Especially nowadays where even the bottom clubs have money to buy players like Neves.
It is not enough to be the supposedly talented, skilful, potential worldies if you don’t marry it with good workrate. Especially nowadays where even the bottom clubs have money to buy players like Neves.
It’s a bit bizarre though when it’s so extreme. Is it that likely we’ve got an entire team of lazy bastards? I don’t think so.
One or two might not have great work rate but at such a high level measurement it would strongly suggest its tactical. Especially when we’re (supposed to be) chasing the game. Isn’t good no matter who’s responsible though.
One or two might not have great work rate but at such a high level measurement it would strongly suggest its tactical. Especially when we’re (supposed to be) chasing the game. Isn’t good no matter who’s responsible though.
Last time these numbers came out we had statistically some of the worst individual performers in the league on this front.
Bailly was the worst in the league and Martial ran less than most centre-halves.
Amusingly, Mata was amongst our hardest workers.
You have only got to look at Liverpool, Man City & Spurs. They may have top players & managers, but the key is all the players put in a shift. Unlike ours who just jog around.
I noticed this during the game but, at the time, I was thinking the players just looked completely unprepared for the start of the season. Many of the players playing hadn't had a pre season, but it's a worrying stat all the same. I doubt we fared well in this aspect last year, without going back and looking at the stats. Too many stationary attackers.
Doesn’t surprise me and why I find it hard to criticise him even if he has a quiet game.
As for bad individuals that’s obviously not great but again, surely there’s an element of motivation and coaching from the manager involved there? Work rate is something that can be made better. It’s not genetic.
Edit: to be clear though, it’s obviously on the players at the end of the day. I just think the manager has a role in that output we see from them.
I was being saracastic re: MourinhoSo the manager who comes under huge criticism for only wanting grafter and workhorses instructs them not to run?
I can guarantee Martial, Lukaku and Mata were the main cause of those reduced numbers. The ball never got to them and they didn't bother making runs.
I remember last season Matic was like 5th in the league for distance travelled and Martial was on average the same as Smalling which says a lot
It's on the players.
Martial is a disgrace, he's been worse for us than Di Maria.
We had nearly twice as much possession as Brighton on Sunday. Our problem is what we do with the ball.
And a huge part of why we're so bad with it is because everyone stands still waiting for a pass to feet rather than trying to move teams around.
Bloody hell, 95km is absolutely shocking.
Don't City, Liverpool, spurs etc cover like 112 - 115km?
Thats like an extra man on the pitch.
Don't City, Liverpool, spurs etc cover like 112 - 115km?
Thats like an extra man on the pitch.
I think a switch may have tripped. I've seen a lot of managers and I'm not usually one to turn against them, LvG excepted, but this is really saying Mourinho out isn't it?
The thing about these sorts of figures is that all clubs as far as I'm aware have dedicated teams tracking and analysing them. It's clear that teams like Liverpool use statistics with their scouting and recruitment whereas you wonder whether we do anything at all. I'm sure I've heard Mourinho dismissing use of possession stats etc in press conferences.
Not necessarily. Martial should have been sold in the summer. I think Jose wanted to remove him from the camp and you can see why. One less player to attach themselves to any other player feeling like not putting in a shift to hurt the manager. Sanchez will bring workrate as will Lingard, Valencia and I expect Matic to help out also because of the stability he will bring to our play. We look like we have no midfield without him and always did last season as well.
Two extra men.
Km data seems to be very difficult to find unfortunately. But we are a very static team when we're on the ball, it's frustrating to watch.
Some if theses players are on big wages. Should be coming off that pitch huffing and puffing and giving it their all. Simple, when you lose the ball in possession you get it back as soon as possible and press as a team. Mourinho hasn't moved along with the modern game. We will get left behind if things don't change
That's a startling stat, make no mistake. No matter how utter shit your managers tactics are you don't run that distance when you are chasing the game, 2nd half was absolutely pathetic. No urgency, no movement nothing.
Spurs game will tell us a lot about what these players are up to. Also, agree with you on players playing a massive part in sacking of previous two managers as well. The stuff about being annoyed with Moyes rigid training drills to not replying to LVG emails, they are a precious bunch.
Fecking hell, that's appalling. I'm willing to bet even Huddersfield last season wasn't this bad.
Hm. Opta stats seem to be marginally less grim than I saw re total distance. The sprints thing is abominable though. Even if we accept a reduced total distance because the manager wants the team to sit deep/keep a compact shape, how can we possibly justify players not racking up a decent number of sprints when we get the ball and try to counter? As @711 said above, this looks very much like a tipping point. The players are basically going on strike.
Players wont put a shift in. Not because they are lazy but due to tactical reasons. We have a lineup that can press. I mean all Rashford is good for is running anyway. Pogba, Fred, Pereira, Shaw, Sanchez, Lukaku can all press. The problem is they wont due to tactical reasons. 1. Jose tells them to sit back and stay in there zones. 2. When we do press against weaker opposition we do it in a pessimistic manner. We are always a man short because we worry about the defence first. What we fail to realise is this isnt 2010. Even the smaller teams have top quality players and are drilled to play out from the back. Well see one man Sanchez or Herrera or Lukaku try to press and realise no one helps so they choose to sit back.
That might make a difference against the stronger teams, but the thing is we still seem to have our fair share of possession against weaker ones, but don't do anything with it. That's not a pressing problem, it's a passing and movement problem.
Pressing has nothing to do with us sprinting less than all the other teams.
Where are the stats from @Pogue Mahone?
The moment at 21:33 in the match tells me all I need to know about our team right now. It's 0-0, Brighton have just won the ball in their half and made a long pass to their forward. 3 United players in our half and 3 Brighton forwards.
Bailly puts his arm in the air to try and call for an offside while Shaw and Lindelof react. The problem is that the next wave of players joining the attack consist of 3 Brighton players and 1 United player (Bailly) who is jogging back. Fred who can see all of the Brighton players ahead of him begins to sprint then jogs and gives up. Nobody is bursting a gut to get back and help defend apart from Shaw and Lindelof.
Pretty sure I noticed Young jogging back several times during the game, i'd have to rewatch it to confirm (something i'm not doing).
@ Bailly calling for offside. How the feck did he end up in that position?Credit where it’s due to Shaw for getting across to cover fwiw.
It's just pathetic. I'm very bored of this team, the tactics, and seeing stats like this. Something is seriously wrong.
Credit where it’s due to Shaw for getting across to cover fwiw.
It was a rough line when the ball was first played, the problem was that Shaw and Lindelof ran with the ball while Bailly sticks his arm up and jogs rather than sprints. By the time he's looked to the ref (1st pic) he's already far behind.