Mitigating circumstances is a nice way of describing abject failure. Arsenal/Chelsea/City/Liverpool have all done more business than us in a window we were supposed to be the biggest movers. He's failed in almost every single aspect of taking care of first team affairs.
Woodward (old thread)
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Mitigating circumstances is a nice way of describing abject failure. Arsenal/Chelsea/City/Liverpool have all done more business than us in a window we were supposed to be the biggest movers. He's failed in almost every single aspect of taking care of first team affairs.
Well we didn't exactly wait until now to make decisions. Players left us and have joined us. Sorting through the reserve players and "deadwood" to see who can be promoted/salvaged probably delayed us in determining the amount of additional signings/type of player to go for. If both Keane and Blackett stunk up the place we might have needed 2 CBs instead of the one. Not that we shouldn't have made other signings mind you.
@roseguy64. I just see it differently. We lost 3 experienced defenders-and replaced them with a 19 year old, 20 year old and a 21 year old. That's not prudent, and should have been priority one.
The CM situation is similarly troubling. Sure, if LVG wants to see Nani, Fellani, Young and Nani play before deciding what to do with them-fine. That doesn't mean that United still don't need reinforcements even if all of them turn out to be decent.
Looks like we agree United need more signings-so how about we leave it there and hope for the best?
Mitigating circumstances refers to the potential reasons for "abject failure", it's not a synonym for the term.
The window hasn't closed yet either. Along with the 2 signings so far this window he's also got us someone who will probably turn out to be a fantastic manager, let's not forget about that. Van Gaal is seeming like a better fit for the club with every passing day.
There are plenty of reasons to be frustrated with him as well but I do believe people are getting ahead of themselves with outrage in this thread.
Agreed but one point. The CM situation is less urgent than the CB one. I can forgive him there. Definitely needed another CB in sooner so we should have moved on from Vermaelen long before and got in someone else.
Van Gaal may well be Woodward's undoing if he perceives that promises regarding transfers/funds have not been kept though.
Horribly similar to last season's debacle this already.
I realise we brought in two players already unlike last season but this close to the start of the season and still none of the big signings Woodward was gobbing off about is embarrassing for him and the club.
I realise we brought in two players already unlike last season but this close to the start of the season and still none of the big signings Woodward was gobbing off about is embarrassing for him and the club.
Arsenal, Chelsea, City and Liverpool have also had a more stable structure than us these past 15 months, allowing them to plan. Where we were allowed to plan, like with Shaw and Herrera, we seemed to have done OK. Add a new manager to the mix, and suddenly you can see why some decisions are going to be left to a later date.
I know people expected a huge summer, but we have to accept the circumstances. In the past, our stability allowed us to plan ahead. That's, for instance, how we closed our three signings of 2011 quickly (De Gea, Jones, Young). That's how we got Kagawa quickly. And there have been other instances in the past. The way things have gone with the changes in management - plus the fact we don't have a sporting director who can make decisions even without a manager around - means it's a bit of a mess.
It could be argued that one of the players we bought this season was actually supposed to be bought last season and that it took a year to get him!
Remember LVG hasn't made one of his own signings yet. . Everybody made a point of how important it is a manager signs his own players, neither Shaw or Herrera were actually his signings !
But that's the point. It's not prudent to adopt a cavalier strategy regarding this summer's transition-which seems to be to wait until the last few weeks of the transfer window in order to allow time for LvG to decide on the squad. It appears that United are unable to deal effectively with the reality that it won't have the same manager year-in and year-out, which will not be the case. If LvG leaves in three years' time are we to write off that transfer window as well?
I've said in other posts that the approach to this summer should have been worked out with LvG during the extended negotiations with him between the time Moyes was fired and when the hiring was announced. Not doing so is a major blunder on Woodward's part.
Question is, can a manager decide his entire approach without having worked with the players he has? I simply don't think so. He agreed to complete the Shaw and Herrera deals, he wanted Vermaelen. Some plans were made. Maybe there were other players mentioned, we don't know. Or maybe to know exactly what type of players he wanted he really did need to work with the team, get to know them better.
Maybe it's just crap timing. We get one managerial decision wrong. The next man could be the right one and he's appointed early enough, but it happens to be a World Cup year and he has a job to do there.
The reality of the matter is that we are also paying for neglecting to do things both under Moyes and Fergie. We shouldn't be needing five-six players in a transfer window every time.
Fair question. Surely there was a middle ground between waiting until the window was nearly closed and signing two players. We don't know who was on Moyes's list--but it may have been better to get more than 2 players that were already scouted. There were some reports that LvG squashed some of the existing targets--but clearly that should have been done with firm replacements (with Plan A, Plan B and Plan C) players identified.
That CM and CB were problems was well known--and LvG says he's playing a 3-5-2 out of necessity, rather than choice. So--I'm suggesting that things should have proceeded much more quickly-perhaps using the pre-WC time more effectively to line up transfers. Perhaps Woodward did that-which explains the "watch this space" remark. But-clearly Woodward over-estimated the extent to which any of those deals were likely to close.
If United had comfortably finished in the top 4 last year-then this would not be a big deal. But, given the stakes for this year (and, as you say, the need to upgrade the squad)--the approach to this summer's window was terribly flawed, IMO.
Remember the LVG hiring took ages to complete too. We move at a snail's pace....
Im sick and tired of reading that van gaal needed time to asses the squad.
First-im sure Woodie has given him a report on squad and transfer targets prepared by Moyes.
LVG must have spoken to Giggs about squad too. Third im sure he has done assement based on reports from 2-3 years back.
Then he had 4 weeks of tour to confront all that knowledge whit peromance.on the training ground.
Thiking that LVG is still assesing the squad is borderline stupidy. Ladies, the league starts tomorrow.
First-im sure Woodie has given him a report on squad and transfer targets prepared by Moyes.
LVG must have spoken to Giggs about squad too. Third im sure he has done assement based on reports from 2-3 years back.
Then he had 4 weeks of tour to confront all that knowledge whit peromance.on the training ground.
Thiking that LVG is still assesing the squad is borderline stupidy. Ladies, the league starts tomorrow.
Yeah I don't think LVG is at that stage still. Were well past that and we've been trying to sign the players LVG wants us to. The question is whether woody will be able to or will completely cock up things once again.
Have to say, I am slightly jealous of how Liverpool have gone about their transfer business this summer. They may not be not names but there's been no sagas and little fuss. They've just gone out and got the work done. We seem to get into long complicated sagas whether it's big names like Vidal, or even lesser known players like rojo.
Few can hold a candle to Chelsea's transfer business this summer, they quickly and efficiently got their transfer targets in exactly the areas of the squad that needed them... and they didn't get taken to the cleaners in the process....kudos to their transfer department.
They are my favorites to win the league and can definitely win the Champions league with that squad.
Lallana took a while and Lovren was most certainly a saga.
Fair enough. Lovren is one player out of how many, though?
See i have the impression, that some poster think that VG lived in the other planet for last 20 years. Then, out of nowhere, Woodie approached him and gave him the job. Only then did VG learn that such club as MU exisisted. Obviously he didnt have a clue where Manchester was, who played fot that clyb. He had no idea whatsoever about Rio and Vida leaving, no idea about piss poor central midfiled, no bloody idea about inconsistent wingers. He had a misterty to solve..how did this team finished 7th last season.
Yeah VG joined MU knowing nada, zilch, null about the squad.
Dunno. Off the top of my head there was the Barry/Alonso fiasco under Benitez and I think they were trying to get Silva but failed then too. Remy this season as well maybe?
I was talking about this window. They seem to have done their deals with relative ease and lack of fuss.
Seriously, how much can he mess up if he truly has an 'unlimited' budget, a clear set of targets, positions to strengthen, and the green light from those above to spend what it takes to secure the big names he talks about? What stops him from putting a proper bid in for a top player in one of the positions that need a top player?
It's surely either the manager has yet to decide who to buy, the Champions League issue is truly the deciding factor (which I don't believe. Money talks) or actually there's no intention to spend much more.
I refuse to believe it's all Woodward's fault, after all if the majority of our budget has been spent, there's not much he can do to secure players who will take us beyond that budget. He can naively attempt to get players for half their value - like last year, but he can't offer money he hasn't been given.
If he's haggling, it's not for giggles, it's because that's what he's been told to do.
It's not a case of Woodward choosing not to dip heavily into our resources for no real reason when given the green light; it's a case of him being instructed not to.
We could have signed Vidal, but that would have been most of the budget gone, and no Shaw or Herrera. And unless Vidal becomes available for £15ish million (the price of Vermaelen or Blind), we wont be paying what it takes. Signing him for his true value would take us well over budget.
He deserves his share of blame for running his mouth though. But the impact of him telling the world about our money is overplayed anyway. The new Cheverolet and Adidas deals alongside our annual figures might be indication enough.
He's really not telling anyone in football anything they didn't already know.
The idea that Woodward is free to spend on a list of targets with all the money to do so, and is somehow failing is ridiculous.
What reason would he have to mess about if he genuinely had all that money right now? Just to save a few quid? Why would he do that for no reason when he has lotd of money and the freedom to spend it?
He wouldn't fail like this at Madrid, because he's not actually an idiot and he'd actually have an 'unlimited budget'. And he wouldn't be a Glazer man working under the Glazers.
It's surely either the manager has yet to decide who to buy, the Champions League issue is truly the deciding factor (which I don't believe. Money talks) or actually there's no intention to spend much more.
I refuse to believe it's all Woodward's fault, after all if the majority of our budget has been spent, there's not much he can do to secure players who will take us beyond that budget. He can naively attempt to get players for half their value - like last year, but he can't offer money he hasn't been given.
If he's haggling, it's not for giggles, it's because that's what he's been told to do.
It's not a case of Woodward choosing not to dip heavily into our resources for no real reason when given the green light; it's a case of him being instructed not to.
We could have signed Vidal, but that would have been most of the budget gone, and no Shaw or Herrera. And unless Vidal becomes available for £15ish million (the price of Vermaelen or Blind), we wont be paying what it takes. Signing him for his true value would take us well over budget.
He deserves his share of blame for running his mouth though. But the impact of him telling the world about our money is overplayed anyway. The new Cheverolet and Adidas deals alongside our annual figures might be indication enough.
He's really not telling anyone in football anything they didn't already know.
The idea that Woodward is free to spend on a list of targets with all the money to do so, and is somehow failing is ridiculous.
What reason would he have to mess about if he genuinely had all that money right now? Just to save a few quid? Why would he do that for no reason when he has lotd of money and the freedom to spend it?
He wouldn't fail like this at Madrid, because he's not actually an idiot and he'd actually have an 'unlimited budget'. And he wouldn't be a Glazer man working under the Glazers.
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Chocolate messiah.
I'm not overly glued to news feeds for hopes of a transfer at this point, and I'm nowhere near the muppet as some on this forum, but I'd like to say one thing, Woodward, and his: We can break the transfer record as long as its the right player, etc etc all that big talk, is starting to finally irk me, Actions or Shut up yea?, don't sprout that type of rubbish, it just winds everyone up.
It's like the knobend at school boasting they can pull the fittest girl in the year if he wanted.... but chimes in later he just doesn't find her that hot to bother.
Bellend.
It's like the knobend at school boasting they can pull the fittest girl in the year if he wanted.... but chimes in later he just doesn't find her that hot to bother.
Bellend.
We do need a few more quality signings, but I would say the club has invested as per a club of our stature. The criticism Woodward has gotten from some on here is unfair.
Fellaini may not be the player muppets want but we should remember Woodward has negotiated and persuaded the Glazers to sanction over €170m worth of new players in Fellaini, Mata, Herrera and Shaw. That comes 12 months after major investments in Van Persie and Kagawa. I would say those 6 players are a very good investment into our squad.
I also remain confident a few more major acquisitions will come in close to deadline day, probably Vidal, Di Maria and Roja; and if they do, Woodward has been warranted to do his due diligence as all are complicated deals.
As the new CEO, I think he has had an even harder job than the new managers after SAF/Gill. Moyes was not Woodward's appointment and that relationship proved to be disastrous. Any CEO needs authority and chemistry with his team manager.
Woodward has as much competence and stature from his footballing general management background as LVG does from footballing team management. I also think his self confidence and 'ego' can go toe to toe with LVG.
The two just need to get on the same wavelength and operate as a team. It does not help them when United transfer muppets continually get on there back with unfounded criticism.
Fellaini may not be the player muppets want but we should remember Woodward has negotiated and persuaded the Glazers to sanction over €170m worth of new players in Fellaini, Mata, Herrera and Shaw. That comes 12 months after major investments in Van Persie and Kagawa. I would say those 6 players are a very good investment into our squad.
I also remain confident a few more major acquisitions will come in close to deadline day, probably Vidal, Di Maria and Roja; and if they do, Woodward has been warranted to do his due diligence as all are complicated deals.
As the new CEO, I think he has had an even harder job than the new managers after SAF/Gill. Moyes was not Woodward's appointment and that relationship proved to be disastrous. Any CEO needs authority and chemistry with his team manager.
Woodward has as much competence and stature from his footballing general management background as LVG does from footballing team management. I also think his self confidence and 'ego' can go toe to toe with LVG.
The two just need to get on the same wavelength and operate as a team. It does not help them when United transfer muppets continually get on there back with unfounded criticism.
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Those are the exact 3 players I think we'll get in before Deadline day as well.
The holes in the squad are apparent and they are long term targets, just like LVG likes
I feel like Woodward's getting it both ways on this forum.
Half the time people are complaining about him spunking up £30M odd on an 18 yo like Shaw when there are more experienced cheaper alternatives around, the other half are complaining that he's not spending enough.
I would completely ignore posters who state Woody is spending too much this summer, that is ludicrous.
I dont think its too much overall. I think its more that some people think he's overpaying for what he's getting.
Either way it shows one thing - notta lotta love for Mr Ed.
"Findus Crispy Pancakes", The official Microwaveable food partners of MUFC. Anderson, the "New Face" of Findus Crispy Pancakes.
It also shows he's got a lot to learn about negotiating an optimal transfer fee. Hence the lack of love...
We have rarely paid 'the optimal transfer fee' on marquee signings. We were mugged buying the likes of Veron, Hargreaves, Berbatov, RVP to name but a few.
Was Shaw really a marquee signing?
Obviously, I wouldn't give a toss if we paid silly money for Vidal. Just so long as we close the fecking deal.
I apologize for being a pedant mate but is there such a thing as an optimal transfer fee ? Was 80 million for Bale optimal ? Or 35 million for Mangala ? Or similar for Hazard and Moura ? If the club has targeted a certain player and the sellers aren't willing to budge does he have another choice but to overspend ? What if we lose out on said player during the process of seeking the optimal fee ? He'll still be held responsible by in certain quarters. It's damned if you do and damned if you don't for Woodward. If he dithered on Shaw he'd still be culpable for blame and codemned for cutting corners and how we missed out on a potential superstar who could solve our LB issues for the next decade and beyond.
Never apologise for being a pedant!
Same here.
Since past 6 or 7 years, when we have become a 'balance sheet' for the Glazers to simply make money, I also don't care about how much we pay for players.
Im not sure why modern day United fans care what we pay for players. Just get the best we can into the club and enjoy watching them play.
Rvp? Are you kidding me? That was a steal!!!!
I agree. Whist I agree that Fellani is not of United standard and was a wrong signing, I don't really care what we paid for him. Yet so many of our fans use his price tag to beat him down. In this modern sponsorship strewn era, the fee's we pay to buy players are a drop in the ocean in context of our overall finances.
If only we never had the debt ...
We can only judge the competency of any CEO/DoF by their records in the transfer market. Woodward doesn't have much in the credit column, but he has signed some good players. Mata is a definitely a very good player and Shaw is hopefully a very good player. If we're using these signings as a basis for judging Woody's competency in his role, you can't ignore the fact we paid a huge premium. And this is something that I usually try not to get too bothered about!
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