He's a complete idiot when it comes to transfers. He said that the best players still want to come to United, well where the feck are they? You'd think that someone in his position would refrain from making outlandish claims if he wasn't sure whether he could back them up.
Woodward (old thread)
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I admire your sang froid. I'm naturally inclined to think along similar lines so really want to get on board with what you're saying.
The thing is, you can look at each player we've been linked with this summer and come up with a really plausible explanation for why time is ticking on. For me, though, you can't ignore the evidence of last summer. This is the second consecutive summer where a new manager has come on board and our transfer business has been - at the very best - prolonged to a point where it has a negative impact on the start of the season. Even if we do sign whoever Van Gaal wants in the next week or two, we'll be trotting out the usual excuses about missing pre-season when they inevitably have a dip in form, trying to get used to their new team. That's the best case scenario too!
Obviously, it's difficult trying to combine the on-boarding of a new manager with getting transfer business done but Moyes was sacked before the end of last season, presumably with this in mind. The job of succession planning when a manager leaves is as much Woodward's responsibility as it is signing new players. If he thinks the best candidate is someone who might be otherwise occupied for a large chunk of the summer then he has to be creative in finding a way to make it work. As it turns out, he's been incredibly lucky with our opening fixtures. If we'd got the same draw as last year, even a rabbit or two pulled out of a hat in the next two weeks might not be enough to prevent the morale corroding run of fixtures that kicked of Moyes tenure. With so many players evidently as fragile, mentally, as we saw last season that could have been the beginning of the end of Van Gaal. Players lose faith in the manager and their team-mates, other teams come to Old Trafford full of confidence and bingo, it's our annus horribilis all over again. Just because our CEO didn't learn from the mistakes of one year ago. All of which is a terrible reflection on his ability to help Fergie's replacements do their (incredibly difficult) jobs.
First thing van Gaal said when he was announced was that he's discussed who he wants out and who he wants in. Woodward can't hide behind any excuses. I won't judge him now, I'll judge him at the end of the window but if he fails to make any key signings, it will make our path towards top 4 extremely difficult.
Agree with everything Pogue and the lad he quoted said
Yep. Even if we sign one or two (or even three or four) really good players, it won't paper over the issues. We keep speaking about equipping the manager with the best players to succeed, but to do that sometimes you have to make financial decisions that might otherwise seem imprudent. At times our approach seems to be more akin to Levy's: the deal is everything. And when you deprive a manager of a pre-season with new players then you end up taking a risk. For me this had to be a low risk summer. We should have gone in strongly for the players we wanted and, if we had to spend a bit more to do it, at least we'd have had the comfort of knowing the deals were done. IMO that's the way you support the new manager, not with interviews and broad statements about what a financial powerhouse we are.
And, as you say, the lack of progress in terms of Woodward's (apparent) approach is pretty startling. We said this season that the prolonged handover period and late start date was an issue with Moyes' tenure. So what do we do this time around? Pretty much the same thing. Fwiw, I don't buy this thing of LVG not wanting to buy players immediately. That looked like PR to show confidence in our players and manage expectations of the media. If he could have taken Vidal, Hummels, Di Maria and Vermaelen without ever having had a training session with the team then he would have, IMO. For example, it looks to me like we've been led up the garden path as regards Hummels. We were seemingly briefing that we were confident. Based on what? If Hummels was off he was always likely to have better options than us, much less at the daft prices being quoted. Yet we seem to have been holding on for that one most of the summer.
Yeah, agreed.
Definitely possible that LvG wanted to work with the squad for a few weeks before deciding which fringe players to discard and which to hold onto. That's an entirely sensible approach. Of course, that won't have stopped him from briefing Woody on whichever really top talents he wanted to add to the squad, with a view to improving our best XI. It's also not hard to guess which top talents he was after.
Can't really disagree with any of that. I think ours is a structural flaw where we only have one man charged with the football decisions and I don't think Van Gaal or any other manager is well equipped to handle all the issues Fergie handled and still prepare his team for the season. Short of calling for a DOF I think we need another executive to come in and help run the football side. Someone to link Woodward and the manager who is connected, knows enough about football to take point in transfer dealings. I'm rambling on, I know, but our approach to the last two summers hasn't impressed me. Obviously the instability caused by losing an all powerful manager was/is at play but if we honestly based our transfer strategy on Vidal (Juve turned down a huge bid from Madrid in the last few windows), Hummels ( you'd think if he was ever available there would be queue of suitors), Vermaelen ( will Wenger ever sell us another Captain after the RVP effect). You would think after last summer we would be more measured in our selection of targets, more informed and move with speed.
Regarding LVG falling victim to a tough fixture run like Moyes did, I think LVG is braver and crazier making him more likely to arrest the slide by making a couple of ballsy decisions to revitalize the squad. LVG would have dropped the likes of RVP,Evra, Carrick and Rio, the moment it was clear that he had lost them or they are finished. If Moyes had taken drastic measures around November/December he may well have weathered the storm and taken control there and then. Alas he was too nice.
this thread seems to be always on the front page last few days. has any other United official divided opinion as much as him?
Think David Gill was a pretty divisive figure.
Edit: Actually he's nothing compared to Martin Edwards.
Don't you think the problem is basing our whole strategy on ovely ambitious targets like Vidal,Hummels,Di Maria when historically we have failed to attract targets of that nature ? From Kluivert to Hazard our history is littered with failures and in our most important summer we decide to chase such players, when we do not have CL football to offer, are now facing stiff competition for players from City, PSG etc ? Why not do what has served us well in the past, value signings from the continent and established PL players ? Why not go for tge solid workmen signings that will eliminate the weaknesses in midfield and defence ? Arsenal now have a better defence than us but not one single player there in that defence cost more than what we were offering them for their injury prone ex captain.
We're so slow acting this transfer market, even selling players...
I sincerely hope Woody announces a new sponsorship deal before United sign a new player(s) just to witness the meltdown here.
It'd be glorious.
It'd be glorious.
Part of me wonders if the extreme confidence of LVG is easing the pressure internally. Could be that the club are so confident that a) he'll succeed long term and b) he has broad enough shoulders to cope with short term set backs that they're happy to let deals take right up til the deadline if necessary.
What I'd also say is that while Van Gaal is unlikely to give both barrels to Ed in public just yet*, he's also shown with his comments about the US tour that if he's not happy with the club he'll say so. So while naturally he wants players as soon as possible, I don't recall any comments suggesting he's unhappy with Ed's role in bringing players in. Indeed we're led to believe it was he that put the kibosh on Fabregas and Kroos. My guess is that he's prepared to wait it out too.
Whether that's confidence or over-confidence, we'll know by Christmas.
I can't deny that Woodward has shit on his own doorstep though. This is all the fall out from employing Moyes in the first place. Whatever the balance of responsibility between Laurel & Hardy last summer, they cocked up in a big way & really hurt the club. We're basically doing last summer's business now.
I'd also say that however well he is or isn't doing in this particular transfer window, he's certainly not doing a job any other half decent exec couldn't do.
*By the way, when he does give Ed a public bollocking one day, which will surely happen, it'll be fascinating to see if Ed's got the guts to push back.
Quite difficult to find buyers for the likes of Anderson.
I still have a soft sport for Ando lol, even with all his fitness concerns when he plays he still quite often passes brilliantly and shows sparks, probably why he has been able to stay so long, but even I agree it's probably time for him to move on now.
The more obscure the sponsor, the better the reaction will be
Haha I don't think you got me, I was saying I thought he played RM and not CM. Not sure though that is just what I heard
I think Woodward is naive and is having rings run round him by more experienced wheelers and dealers in the transfer market. I think he has underestimated how difficult some these transfers would be. Maybe United cocked up by not bringing in an experience CEO to replace Gill. Woodward should be just dealing with sponser deals, which he seems very adept at.
The more obscure the sponsor, the better the reaction will be
"SSN understands that important #MUFC announcement imminent"
> Muppets go wild
"@ManUtd are delighted to announce an exciting partnership with..."
> Muppets implode
It'd be superb.
Part of it, I think, is that we've spent all that money on players that some fans aren't wholly convinced about yet (Mata aside).
Fellaini? Enough said. Personally think he could be useful for us, but most don't rate him. He cost £27m.
Herrera? There's hope that he'll turn out to be an excellent signing. But that's all it is at the moment. Hope. He cost £28m.
Shaw? Some people will find it hard to get excited about a 19 year old English left back from Southampton with it all to prove. He cost £27m.
Even Mata, to an extent, might be seen as a Chelsea cast-off (he was arguably their best player, of course, and loved by 'neutrals' - but is suddenly nothing to get excited about now he's at United). He cost £42m.
That's 3 out of our last 4 signings who were brought in for 'big name' money, but who people don't necessarily see as 'big name' players.
Just needs for them all to have a really good season, and with the benefit of hindsight, it'll start to look like good business and £££ well spent.
I agree. I think in LVG we have the type of manager who can work with a level of efficiency that will enable certain "lesser" signings to flourish in a system that looks to the merits of the collective and not the brilliance of the individual. I think when the manager talked about "not buying for the sake of buying" many thought he was making a comment on top-rated, marquee, signings but in reality, I believe he was commenting on the club's ability to attract a certain type of player.
I would be happy with attainable targets such as Blind, Ron Vlaar and De Jong, as I reckon they'd be able to function in a system that the boss looks comfortable to play. As fans we have no accurate idea of what the manager really wants from the window; we have to rely on the nebulous statements released in the Red-Tops or even worse from the muppet-obsessed Twitter community.
Where Ed Woodward fits into this analysis, I don't know, but like a previous poster suggested, to continue in the same vein in the second, major, transfer window, a CEO will be held accountable to a large extent because he is the individual tasked with bringing fresh blood into the club and whatever mitigation is offered in respect of the manager's role, it's the Chief Executive, by virtue of job description, that will be viewed as especially culpable.
Faber Castell, their pens to be used for all upcoming signings.
Admirably rational. Nonetheless, still not convincing to me to get Woodward off the hook. I don't see why he can't walk and chew gum at the same time. Of course Vidal is a tricky transfer, but why not pick off some low-hanging fruit to fill out the squad while going for the great white whale?
Woodward seems obsessed with hitting home runs-when knocking out singles and doubles is also required. Maybe high-risk/high-yield is his mantra, which is fine in finance, but as a transfer policy leaves United looking foolish, and resulting with no experienced back-up CBs and a MF that is well short of talent.
Barca changed managers (OK-one not in the WC) and concluded its business efficiently before they started training, as did Bayern last year.
"Watch this space" indeed.
Seeing as Woodward has left it late again I'm unsure we'll see a significant signing now. If we lament another poor season it's Woodward I see receiving the majority of blame from fans and not our manager this time...
You realise Barcelona and Bayern have a different structure?
Woodward is due to receive the same brutish and harsh treatment the Scouses gave to the Gilletts and the Hickes during their tenure. I cannot stand this cnut by any measure anymore, so much that I don't even want to keep him for our financial division.
And BTW, I feck Ed's sponsorship deals. Football matters first and above all; sponsorship will only be a result of SUSTAINED success on a football pitch.
And BTW, I feck Ed's sponsorship deals. Football matters first and above all; sponsorship will only be a result of SUSTAINED success on a football pitch.
It's amazing how some people can't see the hypocrisy of giving Woodward every ounce of credit when a commercial deal is done but come up with the " you don't know what happening behind the scenes" or whatever other cliche answer when transfer deals don't materialise. You can't have it both ways.
Perhaps it's about time we emulate that structure considering how achieving success on the pitch turns the wheel for better sponsorship deals for them, and then that money serves in renewing the squad with new talent.
Of course. United's structure was great while it had a manger stay for 26 years. I suspect LVG won't stay in the job that long-and so it's critical to implement a strategy that allows for managers to change without paralyzing the organization during the transition.
Why not?
Because his job is to sign players as well as do commercial deals and no one here has a clue with what goes on behind the scenes in either. He will be judged on his ability to make the deals happen and so far his reign as cheif executive on the footballing side has been farcical.
Which is why you can't use them doing something we can't do at current against us. It's a bad comparison until we set up similar.
I don't think giving credit for commercial deals means that you shouldn't be allowed to suggest mitigating circumstances for transfers not going as well as we hoped.
It's just much easier to judge him on the commercial results than the transfers. Last season people were blaming him for that window then subsequent information has suggested Moyes dithered causing problems.
This. It also doesn't mean he'll not get judged badly for our transfer dealings. He's the one in charge so ultimately will cop his fair share, it's just there could be factors limiting him which are understandable.
Courtesy of FABT:
Man United fans:
Wake up
Open Google
Search 'Vidal'
Search 'Rojo'
Search 'Di Maria'
Search 'Blind'
Get annoyed
Curse Woodward
Try tomorrow.
So true...
Man United fans:
Wake up
Open Google
Search 'Vidal'
Search 'Rojo'
Search 'Di Maria'
Search 'Blind'
Get annoyed
Curse Woodward
Try tomorrow.
So true...
If Woodward agreed to a transition strategy that effectively was: wait until the last 3 weeks of the window to make decisions-well that was dumb. As much as LVG is entitled to shape his squad, the consequences of following such an approach were predictable.
So, there was nothing precluding a different approach-even under the existing structure.
"SSN understands that important #MUFC announcement imminent"
> Muppets go wild
"@ManUtd are delighted to announce an exciting partnership with..."
> Muppets implode
It'd be superb.
Especially if it were for official incontinence pants.
Since this summer has been largely the same as last years when not a single one of the manager's own targets has been brought in before the season starts will we be blaming LVG for the lack of deals?
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