Woodward (old thread)

[Amir]

but then Woodward and LVG are paid to mitigate such drawbacks, Woodward as the CEO should be right on top of this .

But what is it that you expect them to do? Sign players blindly? Release players based on what people tell Van Gaal rather than what he sees for himself? Sometimes there's no solution.

While unhappy with the way this summer has gone, I'm not particularly bothered either. United will be a work in progress and it's not going to finish within one year no matter what happens. We can sign two top players and still fail terribly. We can sign a couple of good players, not big stars, and gel as the season goes on, hopefully clinching a place in the top 4.

 

[ravi2]

If we are now taking LvG at his word then maybe it's helpful to remember what he said in his first presser and reinforced when in the States, that he won't be signing anyone else until he has seen the current players himself! This is a frustrating period, especially when you know exactly what will happen if we don't strengthen, or rather rebuild, the squad. They are a lot of factors to blame for this fiasco, the world cup, our new manager's involvement in it, the fact that LvG is a new manager who has not managed in a top league in four years and our lack of CL football amongst others but then Woodward and LVG are paid to mitigate such drawbacks, Woodward as the CEO should be right on top of this .
If we are going into next season with just Herrera and Shaw as our only pieces of business then we might as well promote the rest of the U21s and U18s to finish seventh again but in the knowledge that we are building for the future. It's better to write off the season whilst bedding in exciting youngsters that to persist with some of the dogshit that we have right now.

But what is it that you expect them to do? Sign players blindly? Release players based on what people tell Van Gaal rather than what he sees for himself? Sometimes there's no solution.

While unhappy with the way this summer has gone, I'm not particularly bothered either. United will be a work in progress and it's not going to finish within one year no matter what happens. We can sign two top players and still fail terribly. We can sign a couple of good players, not big stars, and gel as the season goes on, hopefully clinching a place in the top 4.

Great posts, may I add that I would rather the team as is with Van Gaal in charge than a Moyes-led team laden with superstars.

 

[itso 7]

But what is it that you expect them to do? Sign players blindly? Release players based on what people tell Van Gaal rather than what he sees for himself? Sometimes there's no solution.

While unhappy with the way this summer has gone, I'm not particularly bothered either. United will be a work in progress and it's not going to finish within one year no matter what happens. We can sign two top players and still fail terribly. We can sign a couple of good players, not big stars, and gel as the season goes on, hopefully clinching a place in the top 4.

I expect them to display some form of direction and urgency given that we are playing catch up from a position of weakness. Whilst we aren't demanding a title challenge we have a huge job on our hands just to secure a top four finish.

 

[Amir]

I expect them to display some form of direction and urgency given that we are playing catch up from a position of weakness. Whilst we aren't demanding a title challenge we have a huge job on our hands just to secure a top four finish.

True, but sometimes there are constraints you can't get away from. Our manager has arrived late and couldn't deal much with United until mid-July. It is what it is. Hopefully we can get some good things done in the next two weeks.

 

[manutddjw]

I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for now. Alot of the resentment stems from are inability to secure targets, and while I'm frustrated as well, we also have to look at each specific case and we'll see it isn't all that easy.

Cuadrado and Di Maria are both available and we can likely get them, but there's a few questions that need to be addressed by the manager before pursuing them. Do we sign the better fit in the 3-5-2 (Cuadrado) or go for the better player who will be better off in a 4-3-3? It's a head scratcher and I'm sure LvG needs time to ponder the same dilemma, as we fans are split on this as well.

The other is Vidal, and I do believe that Juventus want players in exchange. I want Vidal here in the worst kind of way as well, but even I think that the fee on top of adding players like Hernandez and Nani is quite excessive even if you use the most modest valuations for Nani and Hernandez.

I will say if it turns out that we are in for players like Rojo and Blind, and he can't close those without incident then I will consider him to be as useless as a chocolate tea pot as those should be relatively easy to complete.

 

[MancunianAngels]

Had we signed Herrera and Shaw but not gone public with other targets, I wouldn't be bothered.

We have though and here lies the problem. We haven't learned from last years mistakes. Going public with big name targets and then chasing back ups who have complicated ownerships/contracts. For Herrera last year, see Rojo this year.

Time to cut our losses, forget Vidal. Get a cheap back up for the midfield and defence. Prepare a massive bid for Strootman in January so we can get him before everyone else starts chasing him this time next summer.

 

[itso 7]

True, but sometimes there are constraints you can't get away from. Our manager has arrived late and couldn't deal much with United until mid-July. It is what it is. Hopefully we can get some good things done in the next two weeks.

I understand that but the importance of bouncing back,by at least recapturing our CL spot, can not be overemphasized. If we managed to plug some holes I'd be fine with it even if it meant signing De Jong,Blind and Rojo. These sort of signings provide our more creative players the basis on which to flourish whilst allowing us a solid platform to build a successful season. Relying on the injury prone defenders we have will cost us imo.
I'm disappointed because I expected United to be more prepared, to avoid chasing unattainable targets and above all to have learned from the disaster that was last summer. We all know that there are constraints but with the resources at.our disposal we should be better placed to mitigate their impact.

 

[Moriarty]

I think we have to get in a director of football. Woodward can sod off and schmooze sponsors but keep him well away from transfer business. I don't think a club like United would have any difficulty recruiting a top-level DoF; someone with a bit of gravitas who knows about what it means to play for United. Someone of the stature of (dare I say it?) Beckham, or Cantona not some scruffy spiv with no stature whatsoever in the game.

 

[goin4glory]

He will keep his job. He's done excellent job financially, reduced wage bill without spending much on transfer deals if we manage to recoup some money on Kagawa, Hernandez and such.

Yes absolutely fantastic job he's done. Not a single LVG target signed before the season starts but at least he's made money for the Glazers.

 

[Sandikan]

the truth is we don't really have a clue. Is Ed bungling the deals? Is Van Gaal taking his time giving his targets? Are the Glazers putting pressure on to make us sound big players yet not actually releasing the funds?
Are we going to make a lot of deals in the last 2 weeks?

Noone really knows. The press sure don't so why would any of us internet goons?

 

[Amir]

I understand that but the importance of bouncing back,by at least recapturing our CL spot, can not be overemphasized. If we managed to plug some holes I'd be fine with it even if it meant signing De Jong,Blind and Rojo.

And maybe we'll still do that, or get some of them. We may have other ideas, who knows. It's not ideal, but the summer was not ideal. What could have really made a difference? Getting another manager, who'll start early. But was there an ideal candidate?

Like I said, it is what it is and we have to accept that.

 

[sammsky1]

I don't think Woodward is to blame for the lack of signings. He can only execute what LVG wants assuming he has the Glazers permission to buy. None of us know what the level of authority Woodward actually has and the inter-dynamics between the most senior people at our club.

Likewise, don't forget how long it took Real Madrid to complete the signings of Ronaldo and Bale. I strongly believe that we are still in the mix for players such as Vidal and Di Maria. Its pretty obvious that the clubs and agents are playing brinksmanship with each other but also approaching that end game. It will all get flushed out in the last 2 or 3 days of this transfer window.

Again, nothing Woodward can do about that, he is well within his right to negotiate and get as good a deal for the club as possible. When he 'overpays' for Shaw he is criticised, when he negotiates, he os criticised. Lose-Lose!

Last, we cannot underestimate the impact no CL football has had on our attractiveness to world class players we have been linked to. Perhaps we did go all out to get Fabregas but he player chose Chelsea due to location and CL football. Thats also hampering his ability to act.

 

[Amir]

Yes absolutely fantastic job he's done. Not a single LVG target signed before the season starts but at least he's made money for the Glazers.

WHO WERE THE feckING TARGETS?

 

[Someone]

I think we have to get in a director of football. Woodward can sod off and schmooze sponsors but keep him well away from transfer business. I don't think a club like United would have any difficulty recruiting a top-level DoF; someone with a bit of gravitas who knows about what it means to play for United. Someone of the stature of (dare I say it?) Beckham, or Cantona not some scruffy spiv with no stature whatsoever in the game.

I was for that opinion when we had moyes, right now i don't see the need for it.

If we're having difficulties acquiring our targets then a director of football isn't the answer, we just need someone competent to deal with transfers.

 

[PvsNP]

We are in the middle of August and no LvG signings yet. Still watching the space, Woody.

 

[goin4glory]

WHO WERE THE feckING TARGETS?

Vermaelen is the only one we know of since Arsene Wenger publicly announced we'd made a bid. If you genuinely believe LVG hasn't identified any targets 2 days before kick off out of your mind, Woodward himself said "we're working hard behind the scenes, watch this space".

LVG is much less likely to be like Moyes and give some PC/cliche answer if things go tits up like last summer, he'll prob throw Ed under the bus and rightly so.

 

[Moriarty]

I was for that opinion when we had moyes, right now i don't see the need for it.

If we're having difficulties acquiring our targets then a director of football isn't the answer, we just need someone competent to deal with transfers.

Well we seem to be having problems acquiring targets all right; at least so the red tops would have us believe. Don't know what the answer is but it isn't Woodward.

 

[Amir]

Vermaelen is the only one we know of since Arsene Wenger publicly announced we'd made a bid. If you genuinely believe LVG hasn't identified any targets 2 days before kick off out of your mind, Woodward himself said "we're working hard behind the scenes, watch this space"

Van Gaal said he handed a list. Then in July he said he won't deal with transfers until he sees how our players react to his philosophy for a weeks. Then Woodward comes in with that interview. Conclusion - who the hell knows what's been going on. It doesn't look good but I won't be passing any judgement until the end of the month.

 

[Dreaded]

Had we signed Herrera and Shaw but not gone public with other targets, I wouldn't be bothered.

We have though and here lies the problem. We haven't learned from last years mistakes. Going public with big name targets and then chasing back ups who have complicated ownerships/contracts. For Herrera last year, see Rojo this year.

Time to cut our losses, forget Vidal. Get a cheap back up for the midfield and defence. Prepare a massive bid for Strootman in January so we can get him before everyone else starts chasing him this time next summer.

What targets big name targets have we gone public with?

 

[Amir]

Well we seem to be having problems acquiring targets all right; at least so the red tops would have us believe. Don't know what the answer is but it isn't Woodward.

Maybe the answer is getting some stability back, with a manager who knows what he wants and is there from the start of the summer. Or better yet, who is here for a while and can start working on the following season during the previous one.

If we're going to be replacing managers every couple of years, of course, that's not going to be the answer either.

 

[Getsme]

I’ve defended Woodward over these last few weeks, I still have confidence in him and truly believe that given time he will become as good in the transfer market as he is other parts of business. To me, that’s his only saving grace at the moment, he’s clearly a very intelligent man who wants the Club to succeed, however, there is a big difference between a business man and a football man, that’s something he has to figure out, and fast.

My major concern is his mouth, his erratic approach seems to be driven by a personal desire to be Billy big bollocks. Although our recent signings have been of good quality, part of me thinks they were Woodward signings and not the managers. Mata was bought when Moyes was adamant on playing Rooney as a number 10, we rarely got to witness what Mata could do, he looked lost, and at times it was obvious Moyes was trying to accommodate him in a system that simply didn’t work.
There was no plan to get the best out of him, something you would a expect manager to have pre-planned, especially when that player broke the Clubs transfer record. The same goes for Shaw and Herrera, it’s already been confirmed that they weren’t LVGs choice, yes he agreed to bring them on board but were they pushed on him? Who knows?

Edward Woodward has an awful lot to prove, he obviously has major strengths’ in bringing money into the Club, but there’s more to the job than that, he has to prove that he’s good enough at the football side of the job. He has to bring the players in that the new manager wants, failure to do so should see him fall on his own sword.

 

[Kill 'em all]

I’ve defended Woodward over these last few weeks, I still have confidence in him and truly believe that given time he will become as good in the transfer market as he is other parts of business. To me, that’s his only saving grace at the moment, he’s clearly a very intelligent man who wants the Club to succeed, however, there is a big difference between a business man and a football man, that’s something he has to figure out, and fast.

My major concern is his mouth, his erratic approach seems to be driven by a personal desire to be Billy big bollocks. Although our recent signings have been of good quality, part of me thinks they were Woodward signings and not the managers. Mata was bought when Moyes was adamant on playing Rooney as a number 10, we rarely got to witness what Mata could do, he looked lost, and at times it was obvious Moyes was trying to accommodate him in a system that simply didn’t work.
There was no plan to get the best out of him, something you would a expect manager to have pre-planned, especially when that player broke the Clubs transfer record. The same goes for Shaw and Herrera, it’s already been confirmed that they weren’t LVGs choice, yes he agreed to bring them on board but were they pushed on him? Who knows?

Edward Woodward has an awful lot to prove, he obviously has major strengths’ in bringing money into the Club, but there’s more to the job than that, he has to prove that he’s good enough at the football side of the job. He has to bring the players in that the new manager wants, failure to do so should see him fall on his own sword.

The real concern is should we give him the time to prove that he can do the job? Only the club's future is at stake. Being unable to sign 3 more top players could cost us top 4, sponsors may start looking elsewhere and our top players may decide they want to leave for a champions league club which will make it even harder to sign quality players than it is now. I went from very excited when we signed Shaw and Herrera to thinking that we won't sign anyone else in just a month.

 

[itso 7]

Maybe the answer is getting some stability back, with a manager who knows what he wants and is there from the start of the summer. Or better yet, who is here for a while and can start working on the following season during the previous one.

If we're going to be replacing managers every couple of years, of course, that's not going to be the answer either.

This,this and this. With a new manager in the absence of.of a DOF we are always going to be playing catch up since all managers look for different traits in players.

 

[Getsme]

The real concern is should we give him the time to prove that he can do the job? Only the club's future is at stake. Being unable to sign 3 more top players could cost us top 4, sponsors may start looking elsewhere and our top players may decide they want to leave for a champions league club which will make it even harder to sign quality players than it is now. I went from very excited when we signed Shaw and Herrera to thinking that we won't sign anyone else in just a month.

In his defence (I know) he hasn’t had the best start, in his first year in charge he not only had the disaster that was Moyes, but the best manger that’s ever been in the game retired. Then this year, the Clubs manager wanted to look at his players before he made up his mind on transfers. I’m not saying he’s blame free, he’s clearly not, however he has an excuse in his locker if he had to use it.

He needs to keep his mouth shut until he is 110% certain that we are signing the type of players the fans want, it’s the hope that kills you.

 

[itso 7]

Vermaelen is the only one we know of since Arsene Wenger publicly announced we'd made a bid. If you genuinely believe LVG hasn't identified any targets 2 days before kick off out of your mind, Woodward himself said "we're working hard behind the scenes, watch this space".

LVG is much less likely to be like Moyes and give some PC/cliche answer if things go tits up like last summer, he'll prob throw Ed under the bus and rightly so.

As @Amir alluded to, Van Gaal's statement in his first presser is not consistent with what he said before the WC. Do you believe that Van Gaal really knew who could go within hours of getting the job ? Why then would he want to see how the players responded to his philosophy when he had already written them off ?

 

[goin4glory]

Van Gaal said he handed a list. Then in July he said he won't deal with transfers until he sees how our players react to his philosophy for a weeks. Then Woodward comes in with that interview. Conclusion - who the hell knows what's been going on. It doesn't look good but I won't be passing any judgement until the end of the month.

I don't believe that two consecutive managers have been happy to add not a single signing of their own to the squad before the season kicks off. Regardless of what happens there is no excuse what so ever for not adding at least 1 CB we've known from before the summer even began both Rio/Vidic were leaving.

 

[goin4glory]

As @Amir alluded to, Van Gaal's statement in his first presser is not consistent with what he said before the WC. Do you believe that Van Gaal really knew who could go within hours of getting the job ? Why then would he want to see how the players responded to his philosophy when he had already written them off ?

It was public knowledge that Rio and Vidic were leaving.

 

[Sir Matt]

Perhaps Woodward could hire the hoodies who went to visit Rio and Rooney. I don't agree with their methods, but they get results.

 

[Invictus]

I don't believe that two consecutive managers have been happy to add not a single signing of their own to the squad before the season kicks off. Regardless of what happens there is no excuse what so ever for not adding at least 1 CB we've known from before the summer even began both Rio/Vidic were leaving.

We have to realize that despite being the ad hoc CEO of Manchester United, Ed Woodward is a mere employee and cannot go against the will of his puppeteers. He's not the one in charge of releasing funds since it doesn't come from his own wallet, that's down to the owners. And to date they haven't gone on public record to state that they're willing to spend extravagantly. So it's still very much of a grey area and we should be wary of proportioning excessive blame in Woodward's direction. Maybe the bold statements wrt transfers was a ploy to hide the tracks of the Glazer family who would loathe to part with tens probably a couple hundred million without any significant added financial benefits (ofc being of the mind that we're enough to qualify for CL as a contractual obligation to sponsors). I for one refuse to believe that an articulate, intelligent, progressive businessperson like Woodward is out of his depth when it comes to transfers. It's a bit new to him yes, but the leaning curve wouldn't be that steep for a man who's used to negotiating with multi billion dollar organisations on a regular basis. There's more to it that meets the eye.

 

[Señor]

Woodward/LvG/whoever is responsible for this mess of a transfer window is an utter tool for not making any signings since the two that were made back in June. It's beyond rational thinking why we haven't bought a central defender this season when you look at what we've got there currently, We don't even have to be fussy ffs! It's not like we've got a defence that's feared by the big clubs. Heck, even the smaller ones!

Our defenders are made of glass and they're not exactly top quality either. Midfield is still a massive issue yet we've not done anything about that either. Our wingers are shite but I can deal with that, just not the abomination that is our defence and midfield.

And yet here we are with one day till we kick off the season and we're arguably in a worse position squad wise than we were last season.

 

[Amir]

I don't believe that two consecutive managers have been happy to add not a single signing of their own to the squad before the season kicks off. Regardless of what happens there is no excuse what so ever for not adding at least 1 CB we've known from before the summer even began both Rio/Vidic were leaving.

Oh, I'm not saying Moyes or Van Gaal didn't want players - quite clearly Moyes did, and I'm sure Van Gaal does too. Question is who and when it's decided. It's well known he wanted Vermaelen, but it's not a shock that he ended up at Barca. Question is, did we have a back up plan, or did we want another centerhalf, or is it all riding now on making quick decisions and finding alternatives?

 

[Amir]

@Invictus I don't thing we'd have gone and spent 60m on Herrera and Shaw if we didn't have quite a bit more money to use.

 

[littlepeasoup]

We are in the middle of August and no LvG signings yet. Still watching the space, Woody.

He should have known better than to make those statements. At best misguided, at worst a complete and utter feckup.

 

[Invictus]

@Invictus I don't thing we'd have gone and spent 60m on Herrera and Shaw if we didn't have quite a bit more money to use.

Quite possibly mate, it wasn't meant to be a factual analogy I'm merely speculating here. But for all we know that could be a significant portion of our spending. Despite the noises of "unlimited budget" in 2013 and "200 m warchest" this season - unless the statements comes to fruition I'll with-hold any final judgement concerning their largesse.

 

[ottosec]

I find it laughable how a man so good with finances fails so much on the transfer market...

I'm guessing he tries to get the lowest price possible and ends up annoying the clubs or he drags negotiations so much that other clubs come, pay the asking price and sign the damn player.

 

[Amir]

I find it laughable how a man so good with finances fails so much on the transfer market...

I'm guessing he tries to get the lowest price possible and ends up annoying the clubs or he drags negotiations so much that other clubs come, pay the asking price and sign the damn player.

He paid what it took to get Herrera. He paid good money for Mata, he paid really good money for Shaw.

 

[The-Natural]

if things stay as they are in terms of signings and our early season form is poor then things could get ugly very quickly

 

[goin4glory]

We have to realize that despite being the ad hoc CEO of Manchester United, Ed Woodward is a mere employee and cannot go against the will of his puppeteers. He's not the one in charge of releasing funds since it doesn't come from his own wallet, that's down to the owners. And to date they haven't gone on public record to state that they're willing to spend extravagantly. So it's still very much of a grey area and we should be wary of proportioning excessive blame in Woodward's direction. Maybe the bold statements wrt transfers was a ploy to hide the tracks of the Glazer family who would loathe to part with tens probably a couple hundred million without any significant added financial benefits (ofc being of the mind that we're enough to qualify for CL as a contractual obligation to sponsors). I for one refuse to believe that an articulate, intelligent, progressive businessperson like Woodward is out of his depth when it comes to transfers. It's a bit new to him yes, but the leaning curve wouldn't be that steep for a man who's used to negotiating with multi billion dollar organisations on a regular basis. There's more to it that meets the eye.

So we just sit around and excuse his poor performances because we can't emphatically prove he's to blame? He's claimed money is available and the club are willing to break records, you can't qualify his intelligence for the role then forget about the bold statements he's made about United ability to sign top players, someone of his supposed intelligence would know he's only making a rod for his own back when these deals don't materialise. If the manager doesn't get backed in the transfer market he'll end up getting sacked just like Moyes did, and LVG won't be quiet if he thinks Woodward is in fact a chocolate teapot.

 

[goin4glory]

Oh, I'm not saying Moyes or Van Gaal didn't want players - quite clearly Moyes did, and I'm sure Van Gaal does too. Question is who and when it's decided. It's well known he wanted Vermaelen, but it's not a shock that he ended up at Barca. Question is, did we have a back up plan, or did we want another centerhalf, or is it all riding now on making quick decisions and finding alternatives?

Vermaelen should have been a United player weeks ago. He's been a rumoured target from pre world cup but we've sat around twiddling our thumbs and done nothing in the same time Barca managed to sign Suarez/Rakitic/Bravos/Ter Stegen/Mathieu, then after missing out on primary CB targets like Luiz/Marquinhos moved onto Vermaelen and got that done too. The transfer market won't wait around for us to make our minds up.

Look at the current Di Maria situation, should really be a no brainer that a player of his quality when available in a position we desperately need strengthening in and LVG has even mentioned him personally when discussing the type of player he would need if he's to change the system to a 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 should be signed without hesitation, but we've arsed about and if PSG can manage to offload Cavani/Pastore/Lavezzi they'll be back in for him and we'll miss out again. Then what will fans say? No value in the market? Overpriced? He was always going to a club with CL football? All the usual cliche answers I imagine, the truth is we're horrendous in the transfer market and while Woodward may be able to read a contract he seemingly can't work out the politics or many variables that can influence any deal, which has shown in the laughable dual bid for Fellaini/Baines as well as the Herrera circus and final day embarrassment.

 

[Invictus]

So we just sit around and excuse his poor performances because we can't emphatically prove he's to blame? He's claimed money is available and the club are willing to break records, you can't qualify his intelligence for the role then forget about the bold statements he's made about United ability to sign top players, someone of his supposed intelligence would know he's only making a rod for his own back when these deals don't materialise. If the manager doesn't get backed in the transfer market he'll end up getting sacked just like Moyes did, and LVG won't be quiet if he thinks Woodward is in fact a chocolate teapot.

Fair enough but do we have any other choice ? We don't know the inner working of the club so it's unfeasible to pass judgement either way. Like I said before it's hard to quantify his role in the apparent transfer debacle when there are multiple variables involved - some of which were addressed before.

I can 110 % guarantee Ed Woodward won't get sacked. At a max the owners will appoint a full-time DOF while Ed returns to his executive duties. That is a fair rational prognosis. People like the Glazers don't earn billions by being kneejerk and firing the primary money men (I loathe the concept as a supporter but it makes sense if you put yourself in their position in a detached role with no natural allegiances to United). Business savvy folk like Woodward and Arnold - who bring in hundreds of millions are difficult to find and exceptionally hard to replace. We sack him and then what ? Who will replace him in the commercial side of things ? The amount of market expertise he brings in is unparalleled and I'm pretty certain he'd be snapped up by other clubs in a similar role. Woodward leaving would only set the club back.