I said around the same level, not necessarily as good. For what is worth, I agree that Valencia at his best was a better player than the current Willian, though probably the difference isn't that big.
Willian
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Yup Valencia was more productive, and he didn't even take set pieces.
I don't want to pay 60 mil for Willian either. But he's a very good player. Was Chelsea's best last season (by an absolute mile) and was very very good in their title winning season. If mourinho likes him then let's get him. That's if we don't get Sane
Would be a very Mourinho-esque signing.
I'm afraid the only posts not based on reality are people just making shit up.
Valencia was the player of the season for a team that almost won the title not a team that spent half the season near the relegation zone. A player that actually combined his pace and hard work to be of some use in the final 3rd not fluke free kicks in the 1st half of the season and do feck all in the 2nd half. Valencia at his best was quite comfortably the better player. Hell, even now if you put Valencia on the right wing for an entire season he'd probably do as much as Willian does from open play.
Young hasn't been half the player?!? Absurd nonsense based on feck all. I suggest you look at his time at Aston Villa or even his first season at United and then ignore the fact that one's English and the other is a Brazilian. Young's done more in a much better league than Willian ever did even in the mediocre Ukrainian league.
I know this forum loves to take shit on our player but this takes the fecking cake. Willian is a classic example of a player who looks good but does very little. Not so long ago people were blaming Mourinho for him being shite....now he's the best thing since sliced bread because he scored a few free kicks.
It's amazing what a few free kicks (that soon dried up) can do for a players hype.
Don't believe for a minute that we'd be after him. One of those players that i don't fear at all when we come up against. He's just a forgettable Lingard type player, we need better.
Don't believe for a minute that we'd be after him. One of those players that i don't fear at all when we come up against. He's just a forgettable Lingard type player, we need better.
It's amazing to me how football fans always think that other clubs are run by idiots. Yes, let's swap Mata for Willian. They like Mata there. Why don't you swap Ashley Young for Hazard, while you're at it? I mean Chelsea needs homegrown players, so that'll work for both clubs.
Yes, and while we are at it lets buy Sokratis too and Weigl. Maybe they will sell their whole team this summer?
feck your swaps. Mata has no place at Chelsea. He is a passenger who isn't good enough to be a passenger.
That's because you watch him every game. Wait until you watch Willian every game and you will find out how average he can look. Oppo fans seem to rate Lingard because when they watch him he works hard and scores some good / important goals.
Willian is better than Lingard but he also has much more 1st team experience behind him. Yes Lingard is not very young anymore but partly because of injuries he only has that little first team experience and might still improve.
Willian is far from my ideal choice. My post was more of a comment on how poor our current options are than anything else.
It's comedy capers around here during transfer season.
Hilarious banter, and a really good idea about what to do with Ashley Young as well, well done you.
I don't really like that stat but in terms of key passes Willian is the 4th player in PL and the 9th in Europe according to Squawka, how many of these opportunities have been butchered by his teammates particularly Hazard and Oscar.
Isn't Willian their set-piece taker? That would be the reason why he has as many key passes. It's a good thing, but it doesn't tell you how often he generates chances from open play. You have to look at each player individually. It's the same with Payet, Koke, Geis and Jorginho for example. They are all good players and Willian is, too, but it causes the assumption that a player is more creative than he actually is. Obviously there are still players that are better than others in that regard.
You said it yourself, it applies to other players and the top 10 is made of set pieces takers (Ozil takes set-pieces?), so the players are leveled.
How are the players levelled if the top 10 are all set piece takers?
Because I mentioned the top 10 and not the top 100.
Edit: It's still true for the top 30 at one or two exceptions.
I don't get what you mean. If the top 10 is all set piece takers surely it shows the chances created stat is heavily weighted towards set piece takers? As @bucky said. I don't get where it levels out...
Unless you're just saying he ranks well compared to other set piece takers. In which case I don't see the value in a comparison like that.
Özil is a lot better from open play than other players though, which is exactly my point. The statistic won't tell you how much better he is from open play, because he is Arsenal's set-piece taker.
This is a very strange thread. Willian is quality - not 60m obviously but comparing Depay and Lingard with Chelsea's player of the season? Seriously?
As much as I like Juan and his blogs I would have to say yes.
Compared to Depay and Lingard a lot of wingers would be 'quality'.
Swap Mata for Willian? Deary me.
Mata has done more this season in a completely awful setup and in a position that he isn't best suited to, than Willian has done in any season his entire career. Mata actually wins you games, rather than helps you not lose them, a huge (and costly - see the price of strikers vs defenders) difference.
He's a useful player (William) and at less than what Chelsea paid he'd be a good signing; however they wouldn't sell to a rival for anything less than a huge fee so we should move on to better targets.
Mata has done more this season in a completely awful setup and in a position that he isn't best suited to, than Willian has done in any season his entire career. Mata actually wins you games, rather than helps you not lose them, a huge (and costly - see the price of strikers vs defenders) difference.
He's a useful player (William) and at less than what Chelsea paid he'd be a good signing; however they wouldn't sell to a rival for anything less than a huge fee so we should move on to better targets.
Well one is a player Mourinho cant take much use of and the other would be a starter. So it would be an efficient trade
We don't know. United don't have a player like Oscar who at the time looked like he was blossoming into one of the best #10's in the world for club and Country.
Jose made a call based on that; although Oscar having gone backwards to such a degree since then made it look like a very poor decision.
Mata goes missing in games more often than he helps win them, he played right side at Valencia and at United, so basically 2/3rds of his career has been spent playing coming in off the right flank while people still make out hes a dyed in the wool no.10? Willian has had a much better individual season this year than Mata , his stock is high, Mata's is low.
Personally, I don't see why Chelsea would entertain a trade between the two, considering he (Willian) has been their best player all season, but if they'd be interested in taking Mata back i'd be all for it, especially with Mourinho coming in who sees Mata for what he is, a luxory player.
Disagree with the vast majority of that so I'll leave it there.
In my opinion Willian is a good player but that's it. He is no better than Valencia a couple of years back and I really think that Cuadrado is a better player then him. I really do not get it how Cuadrado could not break in Chelsea's and Juventus' squads during the last two years. Willian for 60 million is like buying a 95 ford mondeo for 30 000 pounds...
Cuadrado better than Willian!
I'm sorry but Willian is a fantastic player, I'd take Willian over Cuadrado any day of the week.
You probably would have said the same when we bought Mata who was their current player of the year.
This is a BS story anyway I'm guessing
not only Cuadrado mate. Milner, Young and Valencia are all better then him lol
Excuse me, mate, I am sorry but I will definitely disagree with you. What is so fantastic about him? Can he dribble past opponents like crazy? Can he create goals like crazy? Does he score goals like crazy? He has 5 goals and 6 assists this season more than half of those came from free kicks. He is just an above-average player. A good squad player but nothing more. There is no way that he is worth that amount of money at 27.
Actually following your remark I had a better look at it and the stats tells you that Ozil is by far the most creative player this season and if I'm not mistaken Willian falls to 8th or 9th in league. He is among the best wingers but he is beaten by the playmakers.
Cuadrado is a headless chicken, Willian is a far better team player.
I see Cuadrado in the Gervinho mould, just a bag of pace and craziness.
just telling you what people said in this thread, i rate Willian.
Then I apologise mate, I actually misread your post. I thought you were suggesting they were all better.
Yeah criminally underrating him aren't they.
In Özil's case that's true. For other players it's a bit more difficult. Payet for example plays in a team that relies heavily on set-pieces. Is Valbuena more creative than Mahrez? The key pass stats suggest as much. Calhanoglu is a bit better than de Bruyne regarding key passes, is he the better creative player? Not even close. I'm just saying it gets a bit skewed.
nothing new, his type always was and always will be underrated. People are obsessed with numbers this days, they would be the happiest if United created attacking quartet of 4 players with ridiculous numbers. England "golden generation" could be a perfect example why that wont work(Barcelona is one of a kind), you are creating the best team not the best individuals placed in the same team. For every Martial you need a Lingard(always forgeting which poster im quoting but its a brilliant quote), someone who will sacrifice himself for the benefit of the team.
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