I can't see this happening. We have Fellaini now. Why buy someone who is pretty much the same type of player? Makes no sense. Arsenal should pay big for this lad. They need this type of player.
William Carvalho
- Thread starter Rozay
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Nah, it's like that every single year and they end up 4th anyway.
We have this every year, Arsenal always make top four in the end.
Agreed. They always just scrape over the line in that respect. Never know though..
I am sure he is a good player.
But Fellaini seems to be doing well now. If he has a future at the club then it is as the defensive midfielder who can help keep possesion and be a presence. He will not be the guy who makes those great passes forward(ala giggs vs olympiakos). So if Fellaini makes a place for himself, we will only need a defensive midfielder as back up(if we let one of fletch and clev go).
The first CM we need right now is not a defensive one.
Kroos/fit gundogan
fellaini
carrick
fletch
cleverley
This set of 5 CMs is good enough.
But Fellaini seems to be doing well now. If he has a future at the club then it is as the defensive midfielder who can help keep possesion and be a presence. He will not be the guy who makes those great passes forward(ala giggs vs olympiakos). So if Fellaini makes a place for himself, we will only need a defensive midfielder as back up(if we let one of fletch and clev go).
The first CM we need right now is not a defensive one.
Kroos/fit gundogan
fellaini
carrick
fletch
cleverley
This set of 5 CMs is good enough.
I really hope we don't sign Carvalho for £37m. That fee is a bit ridiculous for someone his experience.
I think another positive of buying Carvalho is that we could then get away with not buying another centre half, as the likes of Carrick, Fellaini or perhaps Carvalho himself could act as 4th or 5th choice there in an emergency.
Yes, but the Fellaini deal puts more pressure on himself and on Moyes. Mata was probably a fair deal, but he heavily overpaid on Fellaini and looks set to do the same on this Carvalho. There are still great bargains around the world and we need to look at them too. Strootman, Eriksen, Coutinho, Sturridge, Benatia, Matic, Zouma ... some great players among them who didn't cost the world. I mean it's good to have all this rumored money, but we should spend it wisely. The Glazers are here for the profit and they know they have to spend now, but this summer could mean that in the next few years the money will be tighter again.
All I'm sayin' that if a player in Mata class in the DM/CM position would be available we should snap their hands off for that price, but spending that much on a potential world class player is very risky and could backfire badly.
They'll come 4th, and their fans will celebrate like winning the world cup.
standard.
In fairness I'd celebrate 4th in a similar way this season (or next
)Maybe so, but he's only 21 & we'd have him for a shitload of years until he dreams of Real...
We've missed out on top-class players far too many times under Fergie, because of his constant "no value in the market.." spouting, after said player went to our rivals & we're payin the price now. Essien & Robben springs to mind, to name but a few!
We paid £27m for an 18 year old Rooney - look how well that turned out man. Same shit can happen if the right player is identified as a super-duper long-term investment.. Carvalho looks exactly what we need - amongst others of course..!
Fergies "no value in the market" schtick was just a clever excuse for being unwilling to spend much more than 30 milion and change on a player.
Jesus weeps
Are you coming on here to write lists of players Arsenal & City etc should sign, then email them to Pellegrini & Arsene?
You're right but £37m!? Basically £40m for someone who has played one season of senior football for Sporting. When I've seen him play, he's looked good but didn't scream out to me this fee. Decent on the ball but nothing special from what I've seen. Seems a true defensive midfielder though. If we sign him, I hope he does turn out to be something special.
Of course & it was also an excuse that we couldnt attract top-class players from outside the Prem either...
I agreed with him to much of an extent back then, because you shouldnt be paying through the nose for potential, when said player could turn out utter shite. Some players have that bitta genius that you know its a gonna be a good deal.
Chelsea changed the course of football forever, with their over-the-odds spending & now we have 5 or 6 Chelsea's to compete with now... So we should stop pickin up scraps & cheap hopefuls & flex our muscles to these artificial big-clubs!
Yeah, I should have added more to that as he was loathe to pay a player more than 120 thousand pounds per week as well, which is why we were unable to attract top talent. Great manager, great man but he was from another era and time began to catch up with his man-managment style.
Its a shitload alright man, but look how much its been quoted that PSG are willing to pay for Pogba - €70m or £70m or something rediculous & he's only had a season & a half. Not to mention Bale to Real for a world record fee - again, after really only havin a season & a half of excellence..
If you desperately want a player - a release clause makes it a whole lot easier in many regards, except if he plays in the Basque Country ffs...
Jesus weeps
Are you coming on here to write lists of players Arsenal & City etc should sign, then email them to Pellegrini & Arsene?
Nope. I think if you read my post it is pretty obvious what i was getting at. We already spent big money on this type of player i.e. Fellaini.
Jesus weeps at your reading levels.
He also weeps at your jokes. O wait, i forgot
There we are. Now Jesus thinks your funny.
He was Scottish afterall too man - tight bastard & not just with his money. I'd say he still has all his birthday monies & Wedding money also...
Apparently French reports saying Monaco have thrown the bank at him. I thought thiz was the summer where FFP stopped that bollocks to a large degree.
Nope. I think if you read my post it is pretty obvious what i was getting at. We already spent big money on this type of player i.e. Fellaini.
Jesus weeps at your reading levels.
He also weeps at your jokes. O wait, i forgot
There we are. Now Jesus thinks your funny.
Now arent you a little fragile..
They're not the same player. Fellaini is box-box, Carvalho sits in front of the back four...
http://outsideoftheboot.com/2014/01/08/william-carvalho-scout-report/#
I'd agree with ya if it was just us thats interested in Carvalho, but he's been scouted by all the top clubs & if we dont get him now, then he'll go somewhere else for the same money. I'm hearing Monaco are breakin the bank for him now - probably twice as much as we're offering in wages & then more when they have to..
He was Scottish afterall too man - tight bastard & not just with his money. I'd say he still has all his birthday monies & Wedding money also...
I didn't want to go mentioning sporrans and all that.
I didn't want to go mentioning sporrans and all that.
I thought i'd speak on behalf of the Caf - your goodself included of course
Now arent you a little fragile..
They're not the same player. Fellaini is box-box, Carvalho sits in front of the back four...
http://outsideoftheboot.com/2014/01/08/william-carvalho-scout-report/#
Irrelevant really, you can have different defensive minded midfielders, sitting further back dictating play etc point is, I don't see Fellaini's future as a BOX to BOX here, if he plays the DM in front of the 4 defenders well and patrols that line, he may stay but he isn't the class of box to box we need in the slightest IMO
He's no Keano thats for sure, but that's his strengths - breakin up play all over the pitch & holding the ball up etc. He's a much better footballer than most give him credit for too!
Completely the opposite of what you mean... you mean he's a better "defender" than people give him credit for, I wouldn't ever describe him as a brilliant footballer, he's not at all.
I always find your last statement funny when I see it used. Often used with Carrick too. All these 'unnoticed' top players. Why don't people notice/credit them? Is it a personal vendetta? Or the fact that only 3 or 4 people actually understand the game?
I reckon it is more likely true that Carrick, or Fellaini in this case maybe just actually aren't that good, hence that being the consensus of them.
People complaining/worrying about the potential fee sort've remind me of those that made fun of City for paying so much for Fernandinho. Why should we as fans care what a player costs? City got their man early and avoided bidding wars and he has gone on to be one of their better players this season. I know we don't have quite the financial clout that City does but we can clearly afford to spend some money. Who cares if we pay a little over the top for a player if it guarantees we get the deal wrapped up as soon as possible. Plus with a player like Carvalho we could have a central midfielder for the next decade if he reaches his potential.
This is the way i see it:
Anderson is gone, Cleverley and Carrick have both played way too much than they deserved based on their performances. With Carrick it is the issue of him being our most important midfielder under SAF (and earning his spot) and with Cleverley it was the issue of him coming from the youth and probably getting too many chances to prove his worth. Cleverley is still young and he may still come good (and that is perhaps why we'd offer him a contract renewal at the end of the year) but we can't keep giving him chances in the midfield if we want to improve so the only way it will work out for him is if he goes on loan. For Carrick he has only one more year left on his contract and at the end of next year he'll be 33. There isn't much future value in him and it is only worth holding on to such aging players if your really need them. The way he has been preforming under Moyes you can't really say United need him, he should be no more than a back up with those kind of performances. The way I'd see it Carrick will stay for next season to offer us back up and maybay play the EL and Cup games so we can rest the first team midfield players. He is a player that is likely to go after next season as I can't see him renewing his contract which means we have to start planning on a replacement. Than there is Fletcher and Giggs, Fletcher isn't the same player anymore as he used to be, he'll time need to get good again and will give it to him but I can't see him as much more than a valuable backup for the midfield. Giggs is a nice extra to have for the midfield (which he proved in the Olympaikos game) yet he is 40 and every season maybay his last so you don't really count on Giggs for the future.
Moyes will want to strenghten the team and the midfield will be key to that. If you want to play good football everything starts from having a solid midfield. If he'll spend big he'll want to make sure he does it on long term value so he can build a team not just for next season but for the future (he'll be planning for the next 5 years). Which is why he'll favor new young players with lots of potential over sticking with the above mentioned disappointing players who don't offer a lot of long term value.
Cleverley can go out on loan
Carrick, Fletcher and Giggs should be seen as purely back up and from those Carrick and Giggs are likley to not even be here for the coming years.
Which sorta leaves with only Fellaini who has been doing decently since he came from injurry but hasn't set the world on fire. He is a valuable player to have in the team but not enough to build a strong future team around. That is why I think Moyes will be looking to bring in 2 young quality midfielders whom together with Fellaini can form the core of his future team. With Fletcher as back up and perhaps Cleverley if he show he is good enough (or somebody else from the youth like Powell for example).
I think those 2 mdifielders are likley to be Carvalho and one of Kroos or Gundogan. For example next year our midfield would like this:
-Carvalho
-Fellaini
-Gundogan
-Carrick
-Fletcher
-Giggs
(Cleverley on loan)
That is 6 players and 2 of those (Giggs and Fletcher will only get a handfull of games) which is comfortable but not overkill for the midfield positions.
After next year our midfield would look like this:
-Carvalho
-Fellaini
-Gundogan
-Fletcher
-Cleverly or somebody from the youth like Powell
(Carrick will not have his contract renewed and Giggs will retire)
Mostly we'll be playing a 2 man midfield with a duo of Fellaini, Carvalho and Gundogan and the other one on the bench. In the harder games they may all 3 get on the pitch if we'd play with a 3 man midfield. They would offer some decent competition for spots and would still all get enough games.
Then we should go for Lars Bender/Strootman for a better price. I do rate him, but is he good enough that I desperately want to win a bidding war like for Hazard? No chance.
Oh ffs, you're speaking for me now are you?! Never said he was a brilliant footballer!
Give it a rest with your hate of a player who's played well the past couple of games, which just so happens to coincide with a bitta form for the team..
Lars Bender is a good player alright, but i think he's stated his desire to stay in Germany. Strootman should have been bought in the summer, we would have paid about £15m or something & he's been one of Roma's stand-out players this term. Sadly he's ruptured his knew & is out for the season & World Cup too - poor bastard!
As regards to a bidding war like the one with Hazard, look how much Chelsea's desire to get the player has paid off this season. He's been outstanding & he's only gonna get better with his best years ahead of him.. Another missed opportunity because Fergie was too tight with someone else's money...
From all the talk out of OT, it doesnt look like we're gonna let that shit happen too often now, if we desperately want a player!
You were saying?!
5pts the difference now & Everton still have a game in hand dude!
Arsenal host City at the weekend - Everton have Fulham away. Then Everton play Arsenal on the 6th April at Goodison...
Squeaky-bum time at The Emirates
We've only won 6 games at home this season. The same number as Crystal Palace.
Good enough for what? That is still weak. Cleverely, Flether, Carrick look pointless these days.
I'd give Fletch a break because he's still in comeback mode, but the other two have been piss-poor against decent sides.
Correction: Cleverly is piss-poor even in 5-a-sides. He'd pass the ball sideways if he took a peno ffs...
Watching an interview with Sporting´s President. He´s saying that Sporting has recieved bids (multiple clubs) for Carvalho and Mané but they have been rejected.
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