Having high hopes that Šeško hype train will surpass Brane Oblak's playing legacy (along with Zahovič and Katanec).
Will the greatest player in your nation's history change hands in your lifetime?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Jamie (@Vault Dweller) are here to talk about United's dreadful home defeat at the hands of Big Ange's Tottenham Hotspur. Should this have been the end of Ten Hag? How long does he actually have left? And does Nik finally want ETH out?!
Hristo Stoichkov is our greatest player of all time, all the top players of our nation come from the past - 60s with Asparuhov, 70s Bonev, 90s with Stoichkov and the legendary team that finished 4th in the 94 WC.
Most recently Berbatov, Stiliyan Petrov and Martin Petrov were the last really class players we had about 15 years ago.
The current and upcoming generations have not 0 but negative value chance of mixing it up with those names. The Bulgarian league is pathetic and corrupt, the players are miles behind in physical and tactical training compared to Europe, most of them are unprofessional a**holes or imported 3rd rate foreigners who only come for about 6 months so their teams can sell them for a few hundred thousand euros to Greece, Turkey or 2nd division French/Italian sides.
The current best player of Bulgaria is Kiril Despodov, who won the award 3 years in a row, he has bounced between CSKA Sofia, Cagliari, Ludogorets, Sturm Graz and currently plays for PAOK in Greece.
Most recently Berbatov, Stiliyan Petrov and Martin Petrov were the last really class players we had about 15 years ago.
The current and upcoming generations have not 0 but negative value chance of mixing it up with those names. The Bulgarian league is pathetic and corrupt, the players are miles behind in physical and tactical training compared to Europe, most of them are unprofessional a**holes or imported 3rd rate foreigners who only come for about 6 months so their teams can sell them for a few hundred thousand euros to Greece, Turkey or 2nd division French/Italian sides.
The current best player of Bulgaria is Kiril Despodov, who won the award 3 years in a row, he has bounced between CSKA Sofia, Cagliari, Ludogorets, Sturm Graz and currently plays for PAOK in Greece.
That's an interesting question. As a spaniard myself, I would say it is Alfredo Di Stefano since he was naturalised, played in his prime as spanish citizen and was taken to a World Cup as a player of Spain squad.
I doubt Di Stefano greatness will ever be surpassed. He changed the game, he was the first "total player".
If we don't take into account naturalised players, for me it's Iniesta. In this case, and as good as he was, there are some young prospects who could surpass him in the near future.
I think Italy is a good shout.
Ok I know most of you will be cleaning spat coffee from your keyboard right now, given the current abysmal state of Azzurri talent pool, and how bad it compares with the past, but hear me out.
A single, insanely talented player can emerge even in the worst banter eras.
And Italy, among the big, multiple international trophy winners, footballing nations, definitely lacks contestants in the goats business.
We have goalkeepers like Zoff or Buffon that can easily go into top-3 all-time lists for the role, but could you say that they were better than Yashin, Neuer, Schmeichel?...
We have incredible defenders like Maldini, Baresi, Scirea... again easy all time top-3 material but could you say without a doubt that they were better than Beckenbauer or Moore?
And... that's about it. We have had an avalanche of fantastic players, but how many Italians would you put in the top-3, top-5, or even top-10 all time list for any other role? Very few if any.
Baggio could've been one, if he didn't disintegrate his knee at 18, but he did; Totti could maybe have been another one, if he made more glamorous career choices, but he didn't; and so both cannot even clear the status of best-of-their-generation.
Our best ever winger is Bruno Conti, fantastic players, but how many people would put him near Garrincha, Best, Luis Figo, Stanley Matthews?...
Our best ever striker, Gigi Riva, incredible player and person, but same deal.
Best offensive midfielders, Mazzola and Rivera perhaps, again where would you put them?
And, quick, off the top of your head, can you name another Italian world-class playmaker besides Pirlo (who isn't even a clear winner in his generation)?
The closest thing to a true citizen of goat-land (offensive player, because that's where the glamour is; considered head and shoulder above the rest in his time; with a career and trophy haul to back that up, and leaving his mark on some historical international football feat) is Beppe Meazza, but that's pre-ww2, aka football prehistory.
Oh god, I don't want to get sidetracked into that old discussion! But essentially I agree. I preferred to watch Mario, but I can't argue with Wayne's sheer dominance when it came to goals and assists.
Hard to imagine anyone surpassing Robbie Savage.
In all honesty though it is going to be tough to top Gareth Bale for Wales. He is in the mix with the likes of Giggs and Charles in terms of his overall talent and standing in the game but when you also factor in what he actually did in a Wales shirt he separates himself from the rest. The drop off to where Dan James, Harry Wilson and Brennan Johnson are the cream of the current crop is pretty steep, hopefully the United youth coaches can turn Biancheri into the Welsh Mbappe.
In all honesty though it is going to be tough to top Gareth Bale for Wales. He is in the mix with the likes of Giggs and Charles in terms of his overall talent and standing in the game but when you also factor in what he actually did in a Wales shirt he separates himself from the rest. The drop off to where Dan James, Harry Wilson and Brennan Johnson are the cream of the current crop is pretty steep, hopefully the United youth coaches can turn Biancheri into the Welsh Mbappe.
The best Danish football player ever has to be Michael Laudrup. But Peter Schmeichel, Allan Simonsen (best player in Europe at his time, 1977) and Preben Elkjær (2nd best player in Europe at his time, 1985) are all close to his level. And when I can name 3 players who were close to Michael Laudrup's level, it is not unlikely that there will be a player at the same level as Michael Laudrup or maybe even higher level, in my lifetime.
I think the Brazilian production line its better as a whole in terms of numbers and that if we force a silly cathegory of Geniuses, Phenoms, Cracks and Elite players, they have produced a bigger number in general and specially of Phenoms, many of these last ones sometimes lacked that extra assertion in their game, mentality and even overall talent to become a Genius in that Pele level and in others even if maybe not having that full galore combination of a Genius, still lacked the consistency to keep their best level (Kaka), yet many of those Phenoms nonetheless, are above a great and special Crack with many Genius moments and aspects in their game.
PD: I once watched some Podcast that they were arguing that Pogba was better than Adriano, because Adriano for the fellas in that show didn't crack the Top 20 players of Brazil, and Poigba for them does it with France, like if it was the same scenario...as awesome and fantastic the French production has been, to the one that has Brazil since day one, it's clearly not the same scenario. I think sometimes we lack perspective in such evaluations.
Finally in the case of Brazil, many of their biggest and more extraordinary talents were more role oriented (R9 and Romario clear forward/Strikers) Garrincha (more than anything a winger) and players in other cases like Zico (a complete player as they come), just lacked a better period to be more known by the World (read winning galore in Europe) and a tad extra of Atheltism and extra pace that the very very best always had.
What both countries share, it's their own interpretation, nuances, approach of the game since the very first days, while keeping the basic notions learned from the Englanders, Italians, Germans and those that brought the game down here.
Even when both countries had periods of loosing time and again, improvisation was there since day one, from an Orsi, or Leonidas, till nowadays Vini or this kid Mastantuono and whomever will come. That need to PLAY, that street level approach was there since day one and that produced tons of players in that mold that sometimes some of them are on another diff universe and we had mostly tend to respect that aura, those talents. Dunno in teh future what will happen, but in such affairs little Clubs and their wise teachers, were always fundamental to keep provinding such talents. It's a very corporate world the one we are living, that might be the most difficult thing to pull put another Alfredo.
I'd be disappointed it didn't happen in the next couple of decades. Not sure about accolades though.
In talent and carreer in their same Period, Suarez is better.
Then you have in more or less recent times trully special talents that didn't had the sort of carreer that make them that famous, but due to their roles and technical abilities, they were fantastic and I preffer above Forlan too: Francescolli, Sosa, Paz and Recoba to just name four
Then you have in that role or mold, a historical figure with Schiaffino.
And also Scarone in the real old days as a forward and Spencer in the not that old ones.
All of the mentioned can be put above Diego.
PD: BTW I'm not of the ones that would choose as the most talented from any Country an Andrade, more when a country like Uruguay had the talent mentioned above.
And I woudln't even do that with Italy, no Baresi as great as he was is a Baggio, no Passarella or Zanetti is a Diego, no Cafu and RC is a Pele...Yet I understand people that might choose as representative a master like Maldini, yet not for me in this kind of "very best exercises"
It's harder in certain countries like Germany because of how special their polivalent fellas like Mathaus or Franz were, combine with that their offensive players weren't in that Messi bracket. Also it's so strong the perception of them as team effort and their more organized approach to the game that maybe we don't give enough credit to their magicinas like Overath, Littbarski, Häßler and such. It's maybe the only cpuntry that I give a pass if they choose The Kaiser, but won't have any problem of choosing for instance Overath too.
Even harder it's when a country very best and more off the charts in terms of talent it's a keeper, they play almost like other game, in these cases maybe the correct way it's to have two options, THAT keeper and a field player.
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As an Australian, I'd hope so. Cahill is probably our best due to making the most of what he had and how effective he was for the national team. Kewell and Bosnich probably our most talented, but unfortunately both got destroyed by injuries pretty much the instant they stepped up to a top team so never reached the level they could have.
The issue is that nobody has come through in the last 15-20 years that really comes close to the 'Golden Generation' we had at that time, with the likes of Kewell, Viduka, Cahill, Bosnich, Schwarzer, Bresciano, etc, all of whom would be easily our best player now. Our entire team back then were important players in Premier League and Serie A teams, whereas now we're generally picking players who are in weak leagues and second divisions. It's been a significant drop in overall quality, so something is going to have to change for someone to come along and take over as our best.
The issue is that nobody has come through in the last 15-20 years that really comes close to the 'Golden Generation' we had at that time, with the likes of Kewell, Viduka, Cahill, Bosnich, Schwarzer, Bresciano, etc, all of whom would be easily our best player now. Our entire team back then were important players in Premier League and Serie A teams, whereas now we're generally picking players who are in weak leagues and second divisions. It's been a significant drop in overall quality, so something is going to have to change for someone to come along and take over as our best.
just looking at the chances of a few of the ex-ussr nations
Armenia: Khoren Oganesyan...A highly talented individual player, but doesn't have any particular club/national team accomplishments that give him an extra edge against up-and-coming talent. Mkhitaryan was, imo, not as good a footballer, but by not being stuck in the Soviet era (where foreign transfers were banned until the late 80s), he could easily have secured this with the time he spent in the top leagues had he been more consistent—in fact, it's possible he actually did, as I'm not sure what the consensus would be in Armenia now. As far as current talent, they have offensive midfielder Eduard Spertsyan at Krasnodar, but he would need to get a good move soon before he inevitably stagnates and solidifies any bad habits for top-level football.
Azerbaijan: Anatoliy Banishevsky... He was a potential great as a young player but didn't really progress as expected after his early '20s for various reasons. Should be passable/matchable in theory by a talented player able to have a good, long, consistent career in a top league. They wouldn't need to be an elite star, just a very good player, and the buzz of having someone doing well at that level would probably be enough to pass an old Soviet relic for many, but Azerbaijan is a way off producing someone like that, and Banishevskiy's international accomplishments are no joke (WC semi-final, Euro semi-final, and final) and entirely out of reach for obvious reasons.
Georgia: I don't think they have quite as established a goat as others and also have by far the most depth of the Caucasus nations. Kipiani the most loved, as harms said, though Chivadze, Khurtsilava, Meskhi, Metreveli, and even the old-timer Pachaidze all have their supporters. Kvara is in a solid position to take the top spot if he can maintain an elite/very good top five league career and be a talisman for the national team, especially if he wins more leagues/cup trophies.
Belarus: Sergei Aleinikov... A classy metronomic passing defensive mid/holding centre mid with some nice team accomplishments, but not very athletically gifted. Aleinikov was a pretty high-level international player at his peak, but this was doable already with 90s-00s players like Belkevich and Hleb, both more individually gifted, yet they fell slightly short for various reasons. Belkevich injury-prone and didn't leave Dynamo Kyiv; Hleb never had the dedication to refine his higher individual talent into a more consistently effective style. With the current state of Belarusian football and the ban not lifting any time soon, I think they've missed their chance to produce someone better than any of those for a long time.
Ukraine: Blokhin/Shevchenko are usually seen on the same level...Ukraine's football youth system/infrastructure has obviously been fecked up by the war, diminishing their overall potential, but young players now having far less incentive to merely aspire to a well-paying starter role at Dynamo Kyiv/Shakhtar Donetsk will probably see a large enough amount go to top five leagues/eredivisie/Portugal/Belgium and fulfil their potential to keep them going; in the long run, establishing that sort of culture of moving to bigger leagues earlier will be a benefit. Obviously, producing someone that will be better than two balon d'or winning "among the best of their generation" forwards is a very tough task and not likely in the near future.
Armenia: Khoren Oganesyan...A highly talented individual player, but doesn't have any particular club/national team accomplishments that give him an extra edge against up-and-coming talent. Mkhitaryan was, imo, not as good a footballer, but by not being stuck in the Soviet era (where foreign transfers were banned until the late 80s), he could easily have secured this with the time he spent in the top leagues had he been more consistent—in fact, it's possible he actually did, as I'm not sure what the consensus would be in Armenia now. As far as current talent, they have offensive midfielder Eduard Spertsyan at Krasnodar, but he would need to get a good move soon before he inevitably stagnates and solidifies any bad habits for top-level football.
Azerbaijan: Anatoliy Banishevsky... He was a potential great as a young player but didn't really progress as expected after his early '20s for various reasons. Should be passable/matchable in theory by a talented player able to have a good, long, consistent career in a top league. They wouldn't need to be an elite star, just a very good player, and the buzz of having someone doing well at that level would probably be enough to pass an old Soviet relic for many, but Azerbaijan is a way off producing someone like that, and Banishevskiy's international accomplishments are no joke (WC semi-final, Euro semi-final, and final) and entirely out of reach for obvious reasons.
Georgia: I don't think they have quite as established a goat as others and also have by far the most depth of the Caucasus nations. Kipiani the most loved, as harms said, though Chivadze, Khurtsilava, Meskhi, Metreveli, and even the old-timer Pachaidze all have their supporters. Kvara is in a solid position to take the top spot if he can maintain an elite/very good top five league career and be a talisman for the national team, especially if he wins more leagues/cup trophies.
Belarus: Sergei Aleinikov... A classy metronomic passing defensive mid/holding centre mid with some nice team accomplishments, but not very athletically gifted. Aleinikov was a pretty high-level international player at his peak, but this was doable already with 90s-00s players like Belkevich and Hleb, both more individually gifted, yet they fell slightly short for various reasons. Belkevich injury-prone and didn't leave Dynamo Kyiv; Hleb never had the dedication to refine his higher individual talent into a more consistently effective style. With the current state of Belarusian football and the ban not lifting any time soon, I think they've missed their chance to produce someone better than any of those for a long time.
Ukraine: Blokhin/Shevchenko are usually seen on the same level...Ukraine's football youth system/infrastructure has obviously been fecked up by the war, diminishing their overall potential, but young players now having far less incentive to merely aspire to a well-paying starter role at Dynamo Kyiv/Shakhtar Donetsk will probably see a large enough amount go to top five leagues/eredivisie/Portugal/Belgium and fulfil their potential to keep them going; in the long run, establishing that sort of culture of moving to bigger leagues earlier will be a benefit. Obviously, producing someone that will be better than two balon d'or winning "among the best of their generation" forwards is a very tough task and not likely in the near future.
It's almost certainly going to happen with Australia. It's such a massive grassroots game with phenomenal coverage, but we've never been able to get the elite pathways right.
I mean look at the list:
1. Harry Kewell (without question the greatest 'natural' talent)
2. Tim Cahill
3. Mark Schwarzer
4. Mark Viduka
and then 'daylight' to the rest... Hardly a who's who of international football- all great players though.
I mean look at the list:
1. Harry Kewell (without question the greatest 'natural' talent)
2. Tim Cahill
3. Mark Schwarzer
4. Mark Viduka
and then 'daylight' to the rest... Hardly a who's who of international football- all great players though.
You beat me to it. Yeah, the entire pathway from the grassroots has to change. The A-League being in a perennial crisis doesn't help too much either. On the flip side, I forgot probably our best and most accomplished player... Sam Kerr!
Switzerland
Shaqiri - could surely be topped. Not by the current lot of course.
But who knows if some Haaland spawns in the Alps in 20+ years?
Shaqiri - could surely be topped. Not by the current lot of course.
But who knows if some Haaland spawns in the Alps in 20+ years?
For Macedonia it used to be Darko Pancev who won the European Cup with Red Star.
But Goran Pandev has surpassed him taking us to the Euros and winning the ucl with Mou at Inter. And having a pretty successful career in Seria A.
There are some potentials like Bardi or Elmas but don’t see it happening anytime soon. They don’t have the hunger or drive.
But Goran Pandev has surpassed him taking us to the Euros and winning the ucl with Mou at Inter. And having a pretty successful career in Seria A.
There are some potentials like Bardi or Elmas but don’t see it happening anytime soon. They don’t have the hunger or drive.
Shouldn't be impossible for Colombia. James Rodriguez and Falcao certainly had the talent to do it, but it didn't quite pan out for various reasons.
edit: even that's debatable tbh, you could argue the title did change hands.
edit: even that's debatable tbh, you could argue the title did change hands.
Brazil (and maybe France) can
Brazil already have Pele, Ronaldo and have big talents every decades with great teams to compete in the world cup.
The next Messi can very well come from Brazil