Oh sorry I meant half a century.
Will the greatest player in your nation's history change hands in your lifetime?
- Thread starter Fortitude
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Jamie (@Vault Dweller) are here to talk about United's dreadful home defeat at the hands of Big Ange's Tottenham Hotspur. Should this have been the end of Ten Hag? How long does he actually have left? And does Nik finally want ETH out?!
Oh sorry I meant half a century.
If it was hockey, it would be simple: Gretzky.
For football, it's probably Alphonso Davies in terms of talent. Atiba for longevity?
For football, it's probably Alphonso Davies in terms of talent. Atiba for longevity?
Hard to tell, one could have hardly imagined a better player coming along after Maradona for example and arguably one came.
I lived in morocco and egypt for a bit. The Moroccan WC run in 2022 will raise up the members of that team to legendary status, and Hakimi is clearly regarded as the star. Everyone in morocco (and many in other arab countries) was wearing that shirt. I think he has a strong claim to moroccan goat already, just on that.
As you've said, Egypt and Algeria have their goats from the last 5-10 years. Pogba could have played for Gabon, then he'd undoubtedly have been their goat. Across africa i think it's likely we see lots of new national goats in our lifetime. Unlike Europe and South America, where the best players have been well known since at least the 50s and 60s, African (and Asian) players have only recently come onto the world stage.
And these are places that are crazy about football!
More relevant for smaller nations. I doubt Liberia is going to see anyone better than George Weah or Hagi for Romania. Bigger footballing nations have better rate of producing talents. Can’t say there won’t be any better than Cruyff or Beckenbauer for sure. France probably didn’t think anyone would displace Platini anytime soon then Zidane came along. Now Mbappe might have a chance to displace Zizou depending on his career pans out, still only 25.
Haha.
To be fair, while he was an excellent player, surpassing Litmanen's career should be in the realm of 'possible' in a not too distant future.
I wouldn't know who that could be though, but it feels like he's already alive.
Someone better than Vikash Dhorasoo?! Good luck with that.
Haha.
To be fair, while he was an excellent player, surpassing Litmanen's career should be in the realm of 'possible' in a not too distant future.
I wouldn't know who that could be though, but it feels like he's already alive.
Not with the level of players we produce. And, perhaps I’m biased, Litmanen is one of the best no.10s in Europe in the last 30 years.
I hope you are wrong as it's a shame you don't produce anyone when even Iceland does!
One of the best is pushing it?
For fun I just googled 'Best nr 10s in history + Litmanen' (He didn't pop up in first couple of lists when I didn't include his name) and the first hit I got was a list that ranked best 10s in Barca last 30 years, and that list had him at nr 7 in Barca.
Point being, I think one of the best no. 10s in Europe last 30 years is probably pushing it.
Personally I thought he was very good, albeit not top top bracket.
Sorry for last msg. I managed to post and I'm not sure how to delete it.
Iceland’s success has been nothing short of remarkable considering their population. But it’s not like they’re going to produce a better player than Guðjohnsen any time soon either.
Litmanen probably should’ve won the Ballon d’Or in 1995. He was instrumental in Ajax winning the Champions League. He never got to those levels at Barca. If it wasn’t for his injury problems he would’ve played at his peak level for a longer time.
But yeah you might be right. I guess he’s a level below Zidane, Totti, Riquelme, Özil, Bergkamp, Hagi, Laudrup and co.
I'm undoubtedly older than you, but I too can see it going to Pulisic over the next couple of WCs. Hopefully we will have a contender to Pulisic immediately after that time frame.
Ever since 1948? What about Jari Litmustest?
I’ve seen it already with Haaland. Hate to say it.
I’d like to be able to say it about Ødegaard instead, but Haaland overtook him before he could pass Henry ‘Tippen’ Johansen, Arne Brustad, Jørgen Juve or Hallvard Thoresen.
I’d like to be able to say it about Ødegaard instead, but Haaland overtook him before he could pass Henry ‘Tippen’ Johansen, Arne Brustad, Jørgen Juve or Hallvard Thoresen.
I'm not going to argue the Ballon d'Or thing.
Even as a spurs fan that almost soiled myself when my favorite striker at the time signed for us the previous summer; I'll concede that Litmanen should have ended higher than at least Klinsmann in the vote that year.
Yeah, I'd definately put those, plus Ronaldinho ahead. And Messi and Hazard if they count, and probably a few others if I took my time remembering all 10s.
The Iceland next superhero I'm not so sure of, as unlike Finland they seem to produce talent regularly these days, and (we probably have different opinions on this):
Gudjohnsen wasn't that good was he? Certainly not as a goal scorer and I don't remember him as technically great or fast or having any special skills at all.
Could be my anti-Chelsea bias talking.
I see Hazard and Ronaldinho more as left-sided playmakers and Messi as a right-sided one than classic no.10s.
A couple more years and it will be Davies without question. Such a shame that Atiba never played in England, Spain, Germany or Italy. Such a great player but likely unnoticed or underrated by most football supporters outside of Canada.
I suppose, mostly at least.
Yes, I totally agree re: Atiba.
As for Davies, I remember when he first came on the field at age fifteen for the Whitecaps, and I swear this isn't twenty-twenty hindsight, but I remember saying to my friend that this was a boy against men yet the roles seem reversed. He seemed head-and-shoulders above anyone else on the field. Now, I know we can joke about it being the 'Caps and only MLS, but still. Fifteen years old, and he was so much better.
Messi wasn't really a classic anything because no player in history had ever been as good as him.
He was as good as dribbling as George Best or Garrincha, as good as playmaking as Platini or Baggio, as good of a goalscorer as Muller or Van Basten.
He did most of his damage from central positions (not drifting in, starting in central positions) so the most accurate position based on where he stood as a player is number 10.
I would hope so, considering that Australia doesn't really have a massively great player to start with. It would likely be Cahill or Kewell I guess, so any player that can play at the top end of the premier league and then has a big impact at a world cup (ie leading player that gets us out of the group) would be right up their with them straight away.
Iniesta or Xavi. I don’t think there’s any clarity unlike other nations though.
More than thinking in terms of being better, maybe is better to think in terms of being more or less on the same level.
I have the luck of witnessing Maradona and Messi, my father even Di Stefano....so there might be a small chance to witness another genius on more or less that level even being an old fart.
Yet right now I will be trully happy to enjoy someone like Kempes or Sivori level that BTW ain't that easy to pull out or at least a Bochini, Riquelme, Aimar type of player.
In fact I think my rivals from River might pull out someone at least on this last level with a Mastantuono, there are a copule of kids already showing some promise, yet they look too lighweight like Echeverri and such.
Luis Suarez has a great shout too.
The thing it's that they will more than probably tend to give more the nod to the one with more titles, than just the mere talent of the player.
The Argentine production line actually has been one of, if not the most assured of any of the big nations, so I wouldn't bet against it, no matter how improbable - it's still more likely than most others, I feel.
Moreno > Di Stefano > Maradona > Messi is about the most imperious chain there is, and one pops up after the other every few decades. The next in line mightn't even be born yet, but is probably more assured of coming along than for anyone else - Brazil's chain is probably: Zizinho > Garrincha > Pele > Zico > Ronaldo > Neymar, but it's not as impressive, well, to say it's not as is because Argentina's has two de facto Mount Rushmore heads and it could easily be seen as 3 with only Pele to go in amongst them. That's insane. Whatever is in your waters, it works better than anybody elses, and as weird as it is, given you last produced Messi, it's more likely him toppled than a Charlton for England, a Cruyff for Holland, a Beckenbauer for Germany etc. etc. if we're being real, only Ronaldo had it about him to topple Pele, and that's wholly different to how Argentina's chain is, where it might be argued that outright better keeps coming along to take the crown off the previous owner.
As a norwegian I would say yes. Probably taken over by Ødegaard IF he manage to get the norwegian national team to the Euros or WC. But thats a big IF.
(I dont rate Haaland the same)
(I dont rate Haaland the same)
If we produce a player better than Bale, then we’re in for a few more Euros/World Cups!
Would be amazing if we ever got a player of Michael Laudrup’s quality again, but I doubt it. We don’t really produce a lot of high quality creative players anymore. Eriksen is the only real exception over the last couple of decades that comes to mind.
Stats yes, but I easily preferred Lemieux as a player.
What happened with you guys and your artistic licence? From Simonsen, Elkjaer, M. Laudrup and B. Laudrup to what we have seen since is an insane drop off. Are they glitches, or was there some kind of collective movement that took you away from expression?
Nah, Mainoo is united through and through. Can't see him leaving us.
Norway will never have a greater player than Erik Mykland, no matter how good Ödegård gets or how many goals Haaland scores.
Sweden - Zlatan
Highly unlikely to be surpassed.
Highly unlikely to be surpassed.
ChatGPT suggestion on greatest players of all time by country:
- Argentina: Lionel Messi
- Brazil: Pelé
- Portugal: Cristiano Ronaldo
- Germany: Franz Beckenbauer
- France: Zinedine Zidane
- Italy: Paolo Maldini
- Netherlands: Johan Cruyff
- Spain: Andrés Iniesta
- England: Bobby Charlton
- Uruguay: Diego Forlán
- Hungary: Ferenc Puskás
- Cameroon: Samuel Eto'o
- Sweden: Zlatan Ibrahimović
- Russia: Lev Yashin
- Croatia: Luka Modrić
Hard to give a good answer. We are a quite small nation, so there is also some randomness to what kind of players we produce, but it is notable that we haven't seemed to struggle quite as much on centerbacks. Partly those players mentioned were also a product of a different era, where there was generally more space in the team for someone with more creative license. I'd also say that when Morten Olsen began introducing a quite rigorous approach to how the national team and all the youth teams should play, that might have ad an impact on our ability to bring through these types of players, but that's a bit more speculative.
Fair enough. If he’s classed as a 10 then of course he’s the top of that list.
I doubt we will ever get another Hugo Sánchez, but more players at Rafa Marquéz' level, I hope so.
John Charles - Ian Rush - Ryan Giggs - Gareth Bale - ?
The big what if, Paddy McCourt...
Uruguay seems off.
As 2 x World Cup winners surely there's good candidates from those teams. Hector Scarone?
From modern players I'd have thought Suarez is ahead of Diego.
Slightly off the topic.
But will a country ever get a better 3 than Argentina
Di Steffno - Maradona- Messi
Never!
But will a country ever get a better 3 than Argentina
Di Steffno - Maradona- Messi
Never!