He could start on the left instead, no?
Wilfried Zaha - Sold to Crystal Palace
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I think Brwned has pretty much nailed it, Zaha is a bright young talent but has a long way to go, I'm constantly baffled how he's first choice in posters "ZOMG cocks out" United line-ups, as if Nani and Valencia have fallen so far and he's been overwhelmingly impressive.
I think the key part of his game, aside from decision making, that he needs to improve is his control, he lets the ball get too far away from him when running at defenders.
I think the key part of his game, aside from decision making, that he needs to improve is his control, he lets the ball get too far away from him when running at defenders.
We had a discussion like that with ciderman who was seeing Zaha as already threatening Valencia's position at the start of the season. Thank God real football isn't decided like that.
I would have loved to see him get at least a couple of minutes towards the end, just as a reward for how vibrant he was during pre-season, and with the game effectively beyond doubt, but I'm sure he'll get plenty of chances with 60+ games we're likely to play, in a long season.
There was a number of posters who thought he should already be starting matches, ahead of most if not all our other wingers though. Which was cuckoo.
There was a number of posters who thought he should already be starting matches, ahead of most if not all our other wingers though. Which was cuckoo.
I think his first game will be against Crystal Palace. With all these tough games coming up, I expect Valencia to be used quite a bit.
Valencia was kept on due to his defending capabilities only which was right despite having a poor game
He's certainly threatening Valencia's position. That's how real football is decided; experienced player loses form and demonstrates weaknesses, young and gifted player is bought to challenge him for position.
Don't think there's anything controversial about that. Tony had a bit of a stinker last season, we needed some competition out there and Zaha has shown us what he can do. Is thinking he's threatening Tony's starting berth more ridiculous than thinking he's not?
How about actually waiting for the young and gifted player to play a few real matches and not preseason shitty ones.
He's nowhere near ready to be first choice for us but he does offer something very different from the rest of our wingers and he'll get plenty of games.
He played 143 games for Crystal Palace, you Ihni binni dimi diniwiny anitaime. Only six games fewer than Valencia has played for United; double what Kagawa played for Dortmund. Danny Welbeck's successful loan spells consisted of 36 games total; Tom Cleverley's 75. Wilfried Zaha certainly isn't lacking for competitive first team experience. He was player of the year in the Championship last season. If you think this lad first kicked a ball during United's Asia tour then you're an idiot.
I think Zaha just needs to get back doing what he was doing. When he came on for England, I don't think he was direct as he could be. He got the ball and wasn't entirely as decisive. If he wants to do well and this goes for anyone talented - you have to believe in yourself. If there's space there, take responsibility and attack it. I'm sure it'll come.
Oh big scary Crystal Palace he played for huh
!!! I'm a fecking Ihni binni dimi diniwiny anitaime indeed for not realizing that championship football is so good.Ciderman, you can be extremely stupid when you really want to but we all have our moments don't we ? Kagawa,Valencia and Welbeck were all playing at much higher level than the championship. Zaha will be given the time to adapt. He's a great talent no doubt but this is Man Utd.
Oh big scary Crystal Palace he played for huh
Ciderman, you can be extremely stupid when you really want to but we all have our moments don't we ? Kagawa,Valencia and Welbeck were all playing at much higher level than the championship. Zaha will be given the time to adapt. He's a great talent no doubt but this is Man Utd.
Yeah Crystal Palace, a Premier League club thanks to Wilfried Zaha.
As for Kagawa, in 2010 Dortmund signed him aged 21 fresh from the J League. They threw him right into the first team and he was immense. You know why? Because he was good enough. You know who else is good enough? Zaha.
Just because it worked for Kagawa doesn't automatically mean it'll be the case for Zaha. I sincerely hope in a few weeks/months time you abuse me with laughter and "I told you so" sentence because it can only mean a good thing if Zaha is performing for Utd as highly as you are so sure he can.
I will have absolutely no pb admitting I was wrong but so far we can only judge what we see and with the very opening fixtures in the league, it will not suprise me to see him not feature that much.
Going by cider's logic with our wingers, Young and Zaha are going to guide us to the treble this season.
Just because it worked for Kagawa doesn't automatically mean it'll be the case for Zaha. I sincerely hope in a few weeks/months time you abuse me with laughter and "I told you so" sentence because it can only mean a good thing if Zaha is performing for Utd as highly as you are so sure he can.
I will have absolutely no pb admitting I was wrong but so far we can only judge what we see and with the very opening fixtures in the league, it will not suprise me to see him not feature that much.
Did I say it'd automatically work for Zaha?
How Moyes utilities him over our tough start to the season is neither here nor there. Zaha will provide a serious challenge to our wingers for their starting positions this season because he's just that good. You've apparently only watched him during United's pre-season so you'll have to take my word for it.
I've not mentioned the treble but nevertheless I'd happily see us line up with Young and Zaha on the wings in any big game.
Nah cider, does it mean for everyone who doesn't rate him as highly as you do that they haven't watched him enough ? I could reverse that logic and say you've only watched youtube clips of him making the championship look like some really tough league (it is a tough league IMHO but in comparison to the PL it's nothing) but I'm not gonna do that
Zaha and Januzaj should both see plenty of game time this season because I'm unconvinced Valencia will ever regain his best form for us. He was decent yesterday and obviously made the assist but he still looks a shadow of the player that destroyed left backs a couple of years ago. Young is Young and should not ever be seen as a regular first team player, leaving just Nani (anyone know how long he is out for?). Home games against dross like Hull or Stoke we should definitely play these guys and I hope Moyes thinks the same.
J2 league. He stepped up from second division in J League to the Bundesliga.
I would have given him around 20 minutes yesterday
I don't see anyone saying it's ridiculous he'll challenge just that it's ridiculous he should instantly be first choice because be played well against select sides in pre season.
Nah cider, does it mean for everyone who doesn't rate him as highly as you do that they haven't watched him enough ? I could reverse that logic and say you've only watched youtube clips of him making the championship look like some really tough league (it is a tough league IMHO but in comparison to the PL it's nothing) but I'm not gonna do that
You said:
Implying that you've not seen him play for Crystal Palace. 143 games at Championship level is an absolute bucketload for a 20yo player.
That's not the because though, is it? You're attacking the straw man.
It is though. Because that's when the talk he should be first choice started.
He was really poor against AIK in our last preseason game, and he didn't have his best game against Wigan in CS too as I said after that game, so I really wasn't too surprised to see him being benched against Swansea, and not getting any minutes. Many disagreed with me, but I guess Moyes shared same opinion.
He should get his chance of course, but realisticly, he is still far from being in first XI, even when we are still lacking few players.
He should get his chance of course, but realisticly, he is still far from being in first XI, even when we are still lacking few players.
I think Antonio Valencia also needing playing time might have been a factor, and he had a very solid game, and offered alot defensively, so it wouldn't have been wise to take him off, I don't think. Early days isn't it. I think Zaha will feature plenty, but with players still being phased back in to the fold and getting up to 100% fitness, I think we'll see a few different line ups and shapes. Some will have to be patient.
One person. The rest?
Yes, it's still early of course, I am not saying that we should judge him by his previous two games too, but he is yet to prove himself.
I don't speak for the rest. I'm not here to regurgitate popular opinion or to engage in some kind of group-think.
No it doesn't imply that at all cider. I was talking about his matches for Man Utd, he hasn't played in a properly competitive match for the club yet. Crystal Palace and the championship mean little for me when it comes to him possibly stepping it up at Utd. I don't mean any disrespect for the championship but the level he'll be asked to perform in is entirely different.
I wasn't talking about you so there was no need to respond in a misguided attempt to prove me wrong.
I guess that's why we seem to be in disagreement then; because I can confidently assess a player's suitability for United based on the competitive football I've seen him play despite it being a tier below the Premier League, whereas you lack that confidence and thus would rather refuse to acknowledge Zaha has played before joining United (or at least, you nonchalantly dismiss any such games as but an irrelevance).
We are indeed in a fundamental disagreement but like I said before I rate him highly but I'll be patient with him and I really hope you're right.
Apologies. I'd presumed that when you said 'Because that's when the talk he should be first choice started' you were referring to the time when such talk actually started, as opposed to apparently instead referring to the time it first started if you happen to conveniently neglect to include those occurrences of people talking about it earlier than the time at which you indicated that it had it first started.
I was glad to see him not starting yesterday, he's nowhere near ready
Of course he's ready. Just not better than the current starters, when we need him he'll do a good job I'm sure.
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