Wilfried Zaha - Sold to Crystal Palace

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I think he is around as Lvg has not decided formation possibly.

Need to loan him out to a Prem club. Many interested as well.
 
Mitten said he was one of the players who were told they were free to leave.
 
He hardly ever gets a game, what on earth is he doing in training to be ignored like this? I've always felt he was talented and would develop well if trust was placed in him. Never got a game under Moyes and has supposedly been told he can leave by LVG. There must be something going on behind the scenes that we're not aware of.
 
El Zoido said:
He hardly ever gets a game, what on earth is he doing in training to be ignored like this? I've always felt he was talented and would develop well if trust was placed in him. Never got a game under Moyes and has supposedly been told he can leave by LVG. There must be something going on behind the scenes that we're not aware of.
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There's been quite a few rumours that his attitude isn't all that.
 
Sheikhy said:
Really wish he stays. I really do think LvG will get the best out of him. Real shame that he hasn't actually been given a chance. Certainly think he would have become a decent player for us with the right guidance.
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I never understand this view of a player. It's pure Football Manager talk, his coaches watch him every day in training and during reserve games, closed door games ect ect. It's upon this knowledge that they decide whether he is good enough to play or not. If he doesn't look good enough in training, reserve matches and closed door games, why would he magically turn into a good player if he's thrown into a competitive game?

On top of that, the competitive games he has actually played in, he's looked very poor so why would a manager continue to play him? (Cleverley logic does not apply here).
 
Orton said:
Biggest dud we've bought after Bebé?
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Is Bebe really a dud? I mean £7m sounded a lot but in hindsight it got us Di Maria...

What's more he excelled in Portugal in a European top tier league, something Zaha has never done.
 
Pexbo said:
Is Bebe really a dud? I mean £7m sounded a lot but in hindsight it got us Di Maria...

What's more he excelled in Portugal in a European top tier league, something Zaha has never done.
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I like Bebe and want him to have a good career, but come on. He was a dud for United. We seem to have signed a lot of those in recent times.
 
Orton said:
I like Bebe and want him to have a good career, but come on. He was a dud for United. We seem to have signed a lot of those in recent times.
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Read the first line again...

The second, I was comparing the two. I'd rather have Bebe than Zaha.
 
I vividly remember last summer saying I felt he was a Bebe level player and the reaction was, well as you would expect.

He is nowhere near as good as he thinks he is, attitude aside even. He thinks he is some Robinho-like trickster, with the glaring flaw being that he cannot actually beat his man.
He is no better than Bebe I think, especially the Bebe I saw last season.
 
Rozay said:
I vividly remember last summer saying I felt he was a Bebe level player and the reaction was, well as you would expect.
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Rozay said:
I believe we can, and will, turn Zaha into a star. He has similar raw attributes to what Ronaldo had when he came here, and I think he has the ingredients, and most importantly,the self-belief to become as good as a Ronaldo or perhaps Bale.
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The only thing vivid, mate, is your imagination.
 
Melvyn said:
There's been quite a few rumours that his attitude isn't all that.
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I was at a Q&A session with the squad earlier this month and he looked like he was falling asleep the whole time.

Pexbo said:
The only thing vivid, mate, is your imagination.
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Rekt. :lol:
 
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Pexbo said:
The only thing vivid, mate, is your imagination.
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Do I have to dig up the other posts then?

Yep, if you go back to before he joined us, I was a fan of his supposed potential, but nothing he's done in a red shirt has impressed me.
 
Rozay said:
I must say, that having watched all of our pre-season games, I've been left fairly unimpressed by Zaha so far personally. He seems a trier, although everything he does seems a bit messy, from dribbling to passing - and almost everything in the final third seems to not quite come off. Yes, it's often close, and he puts his hands on his head as if to say 'ooooh, nearly', but the fact is the pass is nearly always underhit, scuffed, the simple finish is sliced etc.

Now I am passing no judgement on him, as in my observation he appears nervous, and his game looked a lot smoother at Palace. I know he will improve in time, especially when he stops playing with as much anxiety as he is doing. Just thought that, with the amount of praise his performances have been receiving, I haven't been as overwhelmed myself.
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Rozay said:
My expectations are not that high at all. I expect him to take time, and I still believe that is what will happen, as opposed to the instant impact others seem to feel he has made and that he should already be our number one winger. I think if our more senior wingers used the ball in the same manner all pre-season, they would be criticised.
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Rozay said:
Because I see a player, who regularly in dangerous positions, screws up what he's trying to do.

Of course, there is plenty of mitigation for that, and I'm sure he will come good. But as for right now, I'm not seeing what everyone else is seeing. He has been incredibly wasteful, both with his pass and his shot - and even the dribbles have looked untidy and unimpressive for the most part I think. I see nerves, although I also see potential.
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Rozay said:
I know it is caf sin to have an opinion on a player you haven't seen for at least 6 years, but I'm not that convinced by Zaha myself. Because of this, I have not been surprised that Moyes hasn't been convicted either.

He doesn't strike me as a natural footballer, he seems like an athletic kid but not as talented as the ideas he has. He seems to be trying to emulate great players he grew up watching, but 90% of these tricks are both uneccessary and also unsuccessful.

Adnan looks a different level technically, it isn't just experience. Tom Ince also looks far more a natural footballer to me.
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Rozay said:
I know some may think I have it in for him, but just watched him for 90 mins against Finland and was extremely unimpressed. Not as good as he thinks he is, and spent most of the game trying tricks that did not work.
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Rozay said:
There are parallels with Bebe in my opinion.
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Jiggs'Hamstring said:
Utterly mental. Zaha has proved himself at several levels to be a serious talent. He's consistently destroyed experienced, competent defenders, and he's 20. Bebe my arse.
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Ole'sbodyguard said:
WTF:lol:

The CAF's utterly insane this season. It reminds me of the old 606 forum or the comments section on the MEN articles.
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Rozay said:
Ridicule if you must, but it's my genuine observation. For me, it is deeper than just5 frustration at poor decisions, or trying tricks at the wrong time. That stuff is normal with young players. My biggest concern is the the worrying infrequency with which the tricks even work. 90% of the time something other than a simple 5 yard pass is attempted, it fails anyway.

He is not only over complicating his game, my worry is that he thinks he is a lot better than he is in the first place. This isn't a kid who is so good that he frustrates by beating a man one too many times, he frustrates because he invariably tries and fails to beat a man. I maintain that even since pre season, most of the stuff he tries never works. The end product is lacking but so is the actual technique in my view. He may look very technical and skillful to some, but I think that's largely due to his approach. Someone like Lingard, for example, has much more actual ability and grace to me.
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Rozay said:
I just think the Ronaldo comparison is lazy. Yes, both favoured a step-over, but for me he is still more comparable to Bebe. I genuinely am not as convinced as most others seem to be that Zaha has the 'natural ability' that people speak of. I think his attempts to do the outrageous makes him appear to have the natural ability, but just can't put it together. I still think a finer eye can detect a difference between him and a young Ronaldo or Nani, as I have seen referenced in this thread. For me, he looks a player who has based his style on a youg Ronaldo or Nani, but that does not make him good at it.

I don't expect him to be fully complete just yet. Other young wingers are also unpolished. I am just concerned at what I feel is a lack of ability. I think that is somewhat masked at the moment by his style and ambition. The tricks are not only ill-timed or the wrong choice - they do not actually work. The touch is incomparable to the likes of Lingard, Ravel, Sterling and Ince in my view. I am not comparing him to Ribery, I am comparing him to his direct competition at U21 level. He has played far more professional games than all of those too, so the whole 'inexperienced' thing is a bit overplayed I think.

Ultimately, the main difference between Zaha and young Ronaldo/Nani/Quaresma etc is that while they didn't have the end product, the ability was clear and they still went past players for fun. For me, Zaha tries to go past players for fun.

With regards to Bebe, I don't think it's as far-fetched as some others do. Bebe has shown pockets of promise too, let's not forget. He is physically exceptional for a start, fast and strong. He has also had his share of good games/moments for our reserves, and has impressed on loan in the Portuguese League. He's also impressed in the first team in pre-season last year, and has gotten goals for the first team, including at CL level, and for Portuguese U21. That list was just to those to say how much Zaha has 'proved' in comparison to Bebe, by the way, not to suggest he's a great player.

Watching them play first-team footy for us, I see Bebe struggle to cross well, which Zaha can do better. He is much more of a goal threat though. For me, a typical Zaha moment is to receive the ball, try a trick, get dispossessed, and then foul the defender in trying to win it back. Or get played through in a good position, and produce something that is neither a cross or a shot, and then put his hands on his head while everyone praises the attempt. Basically, both are raw and unpolished, and have strengths and weaknesses. Hence the comparison. Neither have demonstrated real top class technical ability in my view.

It's lazy to just put Ronaldo, Robinho, Denilson and Zaha in the same bracket, when there are vast differences in the 'natural ability' that people speak of. Just because they all do step-overs doesn't make them in the same league.

[/Essay]
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Rozay said:
Well I've said my piece I suppose. Your view is as worthy as mine, and we'll see how it plays out. I think people have been missing my point anyway. The response has been the typical rhetoric about a young player needing games to improve decision-making etc, wheras I think he simply doesn't have the raw/natural ability that people seem to think he does. He doesn't have the raw ability as Denilson or Robinho for instance, so it isn't just a case of him harnessing an amazing natural talent. That amazing natural talent is debateable in itself I think. I don't really see him pull the ball out of the sky brilliantly, and his skills do not work in the way Ronaldo/Denilson etc did. Therefore, decision making and maturity isn't the only deficiency in my view. I'd be elated if he was simply a circus pony beating players one too many times. The problem is he's a circus pony not beating them at all. I am not an idiot, I have seen young, skilful players before who need maturity. However, I can appreciate they don't all necessarily have enough ability to make it to the topeither.

To be honest, I've just repeated myself, which was not my intention. I suppose we will have to see how it plays out, and of course I hope I am the clueless idiot I am being portrayed as by the footballing scholars of this thread. Frankly, I don't think we can afford for too many big money signings to not work out for us, given we are unlikely to just ruthlessly cut them and try again. So hopefully this is not the case and he surprises me.
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Of course, these were not found in @Pexbo brilliant detective work.
 
Melvyn said:
:lol::lol:

Just let it go mate.
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Why wouldn't I respond though when I know that I actually made those posts?

I suppose the Sherlock himself knows too though, as he'd undoubtedly have seen them.
 
Just get rid of him and take whatever we can get for him. He just doesn't have a place in our squad, and we have enough young talents to develop as it is.
 
Pexbo said:
Read the first line again...

The second, I was comparing the two. I'd rather have Bebe than Zaha.
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Ditto... I was kind of interested in seeing what Bebe could bring to the table after his successful loan stint in Portugal.
 
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