Why is Ruud van Nistelrooy so disrespected?

Red_Heisenberg said:
Rooney was superior to RVN comfortably.
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Playing what position? Rooney's top level and a true CF was not close to Ruud's, and Rooney's median level as a CF was several stages below the Dutchman. Basically every attribute you want from a striker, RVN is better. In the air, finishing, touch, back-to-goal play, movement.

Rooney was a force of nature and probably a better footballer, but if Ruud had been up front for us as long as Rooney was, we'd have a record goal scorer with substantially more goals.
 
Grunnn123 said:
70.000 people chanting RUUUUD RUUUUD RUUUUD. And He was loved by the suporters. Now we have e new sort of Ruud in the box. WOUT WOUT WOUT
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I remember it sounded like we were booing him when you heard it on TV. My sons first idol. Funny thing is Ruuds spell was probably our worst spell since 1990
 
Reditus said:
Anyway, why are penalties discounted? They happen and are a vital part to a season for every club. Yes a penalty taker has an advantage to add to their tally. But they are THE penalty taker for a reason. Can you imagine the stones It takes to walk up and convert a spot kick? It’s a special talent and should never be used as a negative to any goal scorer
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Any player should get it between the posts and if the goalie saves, then its a good save. What gets me is when a professional footballer cant get it between the posts. When I was younger I played for 2 pub teams over 20 years and I took probably 20 pens in all that time, yet I always got it between the posts and some went in and some were saved,
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adexkola said:
I'm not no snitch



Debatable
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RVP was fantastic and one of the best strikers we've seen in the PL but RVN was better for me. Less likely to score an incredible volley or pull of a piece of brilliant technique but he was a much better finisher/ goalscorer and the rest of his game was hugely underrated and actually very good.
 
wolvored said:
Any player should get it between the posts and if the goalie saves, then its a good save. What gets me is when a professional footballer cant get it between the posts. When I was younger I played for 2 pub teams over 20 years and I took probably 20 pens in all that time, yet I always got it between the posts and some went in and some were saved,
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Comparing a penalty for a pub team and in front of tens of thousands + millions around the world. You must see it’s not comparable
 
NinjaZombie said:
The thing that was special about Ruud was, his finishing was genuinely elite. It's very rare to see him score and think, "he could have placed it better."

I think he also gets an unfair reputation as some goal hanging poacher. Look at how he scored his goal in Highbury in the title winning season in 02/03. Him and Giggs scored the two goals and if you only knew them by their reputed playing styles, you'd have thought Giggs' goal was Ruud's and vice versa.
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His finishing was absurdly good. I can't imagine what his stats would look like at the modern superclubs like Madrid or Bayern (before current season) and their service. I reckon he's the best I've seen in those situations penalty box situations. The way he'd place or dink or whatever, as if he had a higher level of awareness and skill in that regard.
 
He was a very similar player to Haaland. I think he would've scored more goals in the modern era because teams generally have better patterns of play and construct teams with more complimentary and compatible player profiles. He'd score as many goals as Haaland does in that City side, I've no doubt about that.
 
adexkola said:
Ok this is getting on my nerves. Familiar behavior from United fans, which grates me the more.

Fantastic striker, extremely efficient in front of goal, and was an integral part of a title winning United team in 2002-03. Went to Madrid and won another two titles.

However his name usually gets mentioned as an epithet for describing strikers who "don't do more than score" and as a result "hold their teams back".

Why? Because he had the misfortune of playing for probably the shittiest team Ferguson managed since Sky invented football/the PL in 1992. Blame it on Ferguson/The Glazers/Gill... We really had a mix of inconsistent talent and crap supporting RvN between 2003 and 2006.

And people annoyingly put our improvement in 2006 on getting rid of RvN. If you think a prime RvN in between Rooney and Ronaldo would have done much worse than Louis Saha, you don't know football.

Imagine a prime Ruud in front today instead of Martial.

I planned for this to be cohesive but it's also a rant so go figure. Stop disrespecting RvN by making him the example for great players that "hold their teams back"

Rant over for now
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You need to pay attention to real Utd fans instead of the ones you are paying attention to at the moment then.
 
adexkola said:
Ok this is getting on my nerves. Familiar behavior from United fans, which grates me the more.

Fantastic striker, extremely efficient in front of goal, and was an integral part of a title winning United team in 2002-03. Went to Madrid and won another two titles.

However his name usually gets mentioned as an epithet for describing strikers who "don't do more than score" and as a result "hold their teams back".

Why? Because he had the misfortune of playing for probably the shittiest team Ferguson managed since Sky invented football/the PL in 1992. Blame it on Ferguson/The Glazers/Gill... We really had a mix of inconsistent talent and crap supporting RvN between 2003 and 2006.

And people annoyingly put our improvement in 2006 on getting rid of RvN. If you think a prime RvN in between Rooney and Ronaldo would have done much worse than Louis Saha, you don't know football.

Imagine a prime Ruud in front today instead of Martial.

I planned for this to be cohesive but it's also a rant so go figure. Stop disrespecting RvN by making him the example for great players that "hold their teams back"

Rant over for now
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Stop your bs. Ruud was loved by everyone. Wanker
 
Van nistelrooy might just be the greatest goalscorer to ever play for us. He would shattered Charlton record and more had he stayed as long as Rooney.

If he was playing in that city side feeding of de bruynes and cos service and playing in an era were defenders arent allowed to rough a striker up he would have more goals than haaland for sure.
 
Fortitude said:
Think that's all fair comment except the Drogba bit because Chelsea used him as a battering ram aerially as well as for his hold up play; Ruud could've easily matched the hold up play, but I don't think he'd have done as well as Drogba at the aerial stuff or directly tussling with two centre-backs across the lines all game, which facilitated Lampard's game and had a lot of selfless to it. Not sure Ruud would be happy sharing goals with Lampard or having him take anything but the scraps he himself failed with - like a lion who eats first and doesn't care once full.

But yeah, other than that, I'm in full agreement with your post.
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I low-key think Drogba is probably the best striker the league has seen, in terms of what he brought to the team. As you point out, he facilitated the Lampard explosion as a 20 goal a season man, was an asset defending set pieces, had a great touch and a much better big game player than Van Nistelrooy, Henry, Shearer etc.


Nobby style said:
Fantastic as he was, no denying it, he was a massive arrogant prick. I remember reading a Forlan interview in Spanish a while ago where he spoke about Van Nistleroy's dominance and demand for the ball all the time, and how he would throw massive strops if it wasn't him him him. Even demanding Forlan not play. Forlan was saying it in a prudent, diplomatic way, but you could see he thought he was a fooking asshole. It's no wonder Forlan showed how good he really was after getting out from under RVN´s negative weight. Also no wonder we got back to winning the league on a regular basis once he was gone. Was also giant cnut to the blossoming Ronaldo, and everyone knows about the pissy fit after getting left out for Saha in the cup final, which was the last straw. We were a much better side after he'd gone, and within two years were the champions of Europe.
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It’s no coincidence bitter, crocked Keane and only-pass-to-me-so-i-can-score Van Nistelrooy leaving within 6 months of each other allowed a group of young talents to come into their own and facilitate an unprecedented era of success.

Shearer was the exact same at Newcastle, that’s why Gullit wanted to bin him.
 
Yeah, he’s probably one of the unluckiest players of the XXI century in terms of his career narrative.

Came to United, played amazing and even won the league for us, but ultimately that period isn’t remembered with fondness — the treble-winning side was aging, the new and improved continental United was yet to be assembled… and at the same time at Arsenal there’s arguably the best player that the league has ever seen who scored roughly the same amount of goals as Ruud but also assisted in double digits and looked even better on the pitch (as many have said, it’s a bit of a poor man’s Cristiano vs Messi).

And then the aging Ruud didn’t get on well with young Cristiano, eventually getting displaced only for United to assemble arguably the greatest attack the club has ever seen (first with Saha who was later upgraded with Tevez)… with even more talented Cristiano and probably similarly/marginally more talented Rooney shining in free roles.

But then they showed some of Ruud’s goals on Sky a few weeks back and damn did I feel nostalgic. He was… inevitable.
 
He’s one of the best strikers I’ve ever seen play the game. Best finisher we’ve had at the club maybe.

His penalty kick technique is in discussion probably the most reliable ever.

Yet the only highlight they ever show now is just about the only one he ever missed. He also beat Henry to quite a few individual awards.
 
How else are we supposed to shit on City and Haaland?

We need some lame excuse so we don't feel so bad missing out on Haaland. If we have to sacrifice RVN's legacy for our sanity it's worth it.
 
we did noticeably improve when Saha was in the team though

RvN was world class for us but didn’t suit the way Fergie wanted to mould the team at the time

I don’t think this is disrespectful to say, it’s just what happened
 
Ruud at his peak was incredible, but he had had several big injuries that made him less agile and he was already turning 30 when he left. It was the right time to let him go.

Saha/Tevez were more dynamic and they were a better fit the 2006-2009 team than Ruud would’ve been or Berbatov eventually was.

But I don’t think he was ever a problem, never mind THE PROBLEM, at least not on the field. And he was not just some sluggish target or tap-in merchant, but a very complete striker.
 
King Azaz the Unabridged said:
For anyone wondering, his open play league goal numbers by season are actually 19, 17, 19, 3, and 19, the 3 obviously coming in the 2004/05 season that was ruined by injury. That does indeed produce an average of 15-16, if you not only ignore the context of the injury but also commit the error of weighting all five seasons equally when one of them accounted for roughly half as many minutes/appearances as the other four.

I would instead phrase my interpretation of these numbers as "in five years at United, Van Nistelrooy averaged a non-penalty league goal every 158 minutes, which would work out to 21.6 per season - elite goalscoring numbers that are comparable with most top strikers of the Premier League era and likely the best among United players"*.

I had to double-check to confirm this was the same poster who said earlier in the thread that Van Nistelrooy scored 4 CL knockout goals without even bothering to include the number of games. Not sure what's going on here!


*edit: a quick check reveals that he's ahead of Rooney and Van Persie but narrowly behind Ole (153 minutes per non-penalty-goal - what a legend). Cole (who deserves massive respect for amassing 187 Prem goals without a single penalty) is behind Ruud across his entire career but is most likely ahead if you exclude his post-United spells where he was past his best - can't be arsed to pull the numbers. As anyone would know without needing to read my post or the spreadsheet above, Van Nistelrooy was an elite goalscorer even without the penalty stat-padding.
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Sorry to be off topic but 187 goals in the league without a single penalty is such a great record when you consider Shearer is forever lauded for his 260 with 56 penalties, think also about how many games Cole was rotated for with Ole and Sheringham whilst Shearer was never dropped/rotated and shows how great of a goal scorer Cole genuinely was.
 
Reditus said:
Comparing a penalty for a pub team and in front of tens of thousands + millions around the world. You must see it’s not comparable
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I agree. Just used it as example that a pro footballer should at least get it between the posts and if its saved its saved. If nerves are all over the place, should they be taking the pen in the first place?
 
My favorite United player of all-time, those people are idiots and most likely Ronaldo superfans
 
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Spent 4 of his 5 years at the club with Barthez, Howard, Carroll as goalkeeper, and no established CB partnership in those 5 years.

Had to play in team that was accommodating a declining and ageing Roy Keane, as well as many defenders and midfielders who were simply not good enough and youngsters not yet at his level.

And some clowns will still try and trick you into believing RVN was somehow responsible for our lack of success during this era. Brilliant
 
I don't remember him being underrated at the time. We'd all want to be Ruud on the playground. Why wouldn't you, the man banged in goals for absolute fun. It's only with the passage of time that underrating may happen because as memories fade it becomes easy to paint in broad strokes, and suddenly he's this Inzaghi like figure which is nonsense when you see some of his goals.

Yes he didn't have the all round ability of Rooney or Ronaldo but who cares, he was much more ruthless so it's swings and roundabouts. Top class.
 
adexkola said:
He was nasty to Ronaldo, but I think if he was in his prime SAF would have found a way to accommodate both instead of shipping one off.

I don't think it's a given that 2006-07 doesn't happen with him in the team. We're talking about a season where Saha was injured for at least a third of the time and we had to loan Larsson
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Has RVN ever commented on that time? Ronaldo isn't exactly the easiest to get along with by all accounts so I'm wondering if we got the full story there.

Ruud was amazing though. He could seemingly finish from everywhere in the box with any type of pass flung at him.
 
Reditus said:
Anyway, why are penalties discounted? They happen and are a vital part to a season for every club. Yes a penalty taker has an advantage to add to their tally. But they are THE penalty taker for a reason. Can you imagine the stones It takes to walk up and convert a spot kick? It’s a special talent and should never be used as a negative to any goal scorer
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If you're comparing goal scoring records I think it should be in play goals only. Penalties are a different skill and you could be playing in teams where someone else is ahead of you in the pecking order for pens your whole career or you could be Kane or Ronaldo who must always take them. I don't think it's comparing like with like.
 
Prefer Ruud to Rooney. A more complete attacker. If he peaked here for even 10 years he would have broken all our scoring records.
 
Orion. said:
I low-key think Drogba is probably the best striker the league has seen, in terms of what he brought to the team. As you point out, he facilitated the Lampard explosion as a 20 goal a season man, was an asset defending set pieces, had a great touch and a much better big game player than Van Nistelrooy, Henry, Shearer etc.
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This is another take that I see every now and then and just do not see any real basis for.

Drogba was in the PL for 8 seasons. In this time he put together two incredible campaigns (2009/10, by far his best, and 2006/07) and two very good ones (the first two title-winning campaigns under Mourinho). That leaves another four seasons, or half his time here, where he was completely ineffective. He might as well not have been there in 2008/09 and 11/12, and he was half-fit throughout 2007/08 and 10/11.

You say he was a much better big-game player than Henry and co - in cup finals, sure, he's got one of the best records ever. In the league? We were Chelsea's biggest rivals for the title throughout his first spell there, and he was consistently shite against us - scored 2 league goals in 13 appearances, one of which was offside and the other actually came in 2014 in his second spell. Against Benitez's Liverpool, he's got 2 in 13. Definitely loved spanking Arsenal, I'll give him that.

Incredibly inconsistent player, whose goals on the big stages paper over a very patchy league record. Absolutely no chance he's in the same league as Henry, Shearer, Aguero or Kane for me. Rooney, Van Nistelrooy and Van Persie also put together at least as many great seasons as Drogba did, as did others including Suarez, Tevez, Cole, Yorke and Vardy.
 
Who disrespects him? Everybody, even opposition fans, would put him in the top 3-5 strikers to ever play in this league.

It's also not wrong to suggest his style of play was not the best fit for the team. Everything went through him, when he left we moved to a more interchangeable group of forwards who were much harder to mark as a group than any individual could be.
 
Still missing the days when Ruud touched balls in box = goals : ) This type of silky striker skills have gone extinct in last decade .
 
He was my favourite player as a kid / early teens, name on the shirt and all that. Just a brilliant player.

People make out all he did was score tap ins, but his link up play was great, brilliant in the air, strong as anything, ran in behind, played with his back to goal. He would be absolutely perfect for us right now. Add Ruud to this team and we'd be world beaters.
 
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