Why is Ruud van Nistelrooy so disrespected?

PSV said:
Sorry if you reject stats I can't help you.

8 goals in 32 games against Arsenal, Liverpool & Chelsea.
31 group stage goals, 4 knockout goals in the CL.
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We were some ways behind in Ruud's prime years, that's the context you're missing.

I remember watching us away to Milan in 04-05 and feeling a level of hopelessness I've scarcely felt since
 
PSV said:
Was good at scoring against the lesser teams and in the CL group stages, but ultimately went missing when we needed him.
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adexkola said:
More nonsense in the same strain
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PSV said:
Sorry if you reject stats I can't help you.

8 goals in 32 games against Arsenal, Liverpool & Chelsea.
31 group stage goals, 4 knockout goals in the CL in 10 appearances.
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His record against the better PL teams is definitely worse than I remembered - 2 league goals in 9 against Arsenal (1 from the penalty spot), 2 in 8 against Liverpool, 3 in 9 against Chelsea. But yeah, I'd chalk that down to the general lack of quality in our team at the time.

And his CL record is famously exceptional, so "went missing when we needed him" is a strange take. I added the bolded bit because it looks like a bit of an agenda-driven post to say he only scored 4 knockout goals without adding how many games (:
 
adexkola said:
We were some ways behind in Ruud's prime years, that's the context you're missing.

I remember watching us away to Milan in 04-05 and feeling a level of hopelessness I've scarcely felt since
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I think you've got an ulterior motive. I recall Arsenal fans hating him.
 
My favorite striker for Man Utd if we dont count Cantona as a striker. He was brilliant. Outside the box he was a terrific team player as well. He could really hold up the ball.
 
I don’t think anyone’s disrespecting him, he was exceptional. It’s just his spell coincided with a pretty lean patch for the club and as he left we entered into one of the best period of the clubs’ history. This has some drawing the conclusion that we could’ve been better without, hence the numerous comparisons with Haaland of being a great goal-scorer but holding the team back.
 
Andersonson said:
My favorite striker for Man Utd if we dont count Cantona as a striker. He was brilliant. Outside the box he was a terrific team player as well. He could really hold up the ball.
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Yeah he's probably my fav post millennium. Van Persie runs him very close though. Loved both.
 
Rvn 2001-2003 was as good a striker as I've seen. It's a myth he was just a tap in man, he was fast and strong and good in the hair as well as being a brilliant footballer. Think he's pretty highly regarded by United fans
 
Why is Adexkola so disrespected?
 
He was extremely unlucky that he came in at the end of one great side and left just before another, people assume the correlation of less success with him equals causation but if you put him in the 06-07 I reckon you still have title winners. It was more vidic and evra settled in after their poor first 6 months, Carrick being signed, Rooney and Ronaldo progressing as players, all this made much difference than dropping van nistelrooy for saha in my opinion
 
His attitude changed in 2004 when rumours of Real Madrid first surfaced

Quality striker but he was on the decline after 03/04 season, think that’s why Fergie got Saha, Smith and Rooney within the space of 6 months!
 
King Azaz the Unabridged said:
I just get the feeling Van Nistelroory was fundamentally not the kind of center forward who would have gotten the best out of Ronaldo, or even allowed Ronaldo to develop into the player he became. There were lots of reports that his problem with Ronaldo throughout 2005/06 (which is when Ronaldo was first developing into a more goal-oriented forward) was that he wanted to receive more service into the box, just as an example.

Ronaldo became one of the greatest players in history as a goalscorer from a nominal wide role. For that to work, he's pretty much always needed a center forward who plays a supporting role and defers to him in terms of getting into scoring positions - his best seasons for us came with Saha and Tevez/Rooney floating all around the pitch and pulling out wide to make space for him (I don't think it's a coincidence his goalscoring dropped off in 08/09 with the comparatively more static Berbatov up front). Just like he was at his best for Madrid with Benzema playing a support role - Higuain was a much better goalscorer than Benzema in their early 20s, but Madrid dropped him pretty quickly when they realized who was better for the team.

Ruud was an incredible goalscorer. Ronaldo was just a better one, and I don't think you can play both of them to the best of their abilities in the same attack.
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Agree and, in my opinion, I think Ronaldo was helped significantly by Saha's injury problems. At the time it felt like it would be an issue that we couldn't rely on Saha's fitness. However, the more Saha got injured, the more the team played through Ronaldo for goals. Something Ronaldo thrived off of.

Fortitude said:
But Ruud had a perfect relationship with Rooney, and liked him, so had no issue at all pinging balls back and forth with him. The greatest culmination being the Charlton goal, which is one of the best combination goals between forwards you'll see outside of the Yorke and Cole pairing.

The problem with Ruud at that time is he knew he was the best finisher and he expected everyone else to acknowledge that and pass the ball to him for the final shot; Saha never had that mentality and always played for the team over himself. Saha also had confidence issues, which meant he would happily pass the pressure/burden of finishing on to the eager beavers of Rooney and an emerging Ronaldo, who despite being a winger then, still had the balls to take shots on and sky them without it affecting his confidence or nerve to do it again the next go round.

Ruud curtailed Ronaldo's game because he didn't care less about Ronaldo expressing himself outside of passing the final ball to him, when he was in position and demanding it. What drove Ruud mad was Ronaldo not acknowledging Ruud's standing or ego and still doing what he wanted to do, be that shoot, pass to someone else, or cross as and when he wanted to (not when Ruud did). Comical as that was to see Ruud having to readjust his runs 589548 times, only to then be completely overlook anyway. That's just oil and water not mixing.

Rooney and Ruud could have gone on to be as brilliant a partnership as Yorke and Cole, but that leaves Ronaldo in the cold... there was only going to be one winner there given the age profiles and also friction Ruud's ego was causing in the dressing room.
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Yeah. Ruud and Ronaldo was never going to be 'it'. Ruud was used to Beckham firing laser guided passes his way and, Ruud being Ruud, 90 per cent of the time he made the most of it. Ronaldo was never going to reduce himself to being a Beckham tribute act though. Even before he became a significant goal threat in his own right. Ronaldo was always going to be a bit of a show pony and it drove Ruud (and a lot of United fans) crazy.

As for Ruud himself, I don't see any disrespect in saying that, with the way Fergie (and Carlos) evolved the team, he became a bit of an odd man out. Football is a team sport and sometimes you have to sacrifice great individuals for the benefit of the collective. Ruud just didn't match the direction the 2006/07 team would go in.

However, I think Ruud would have loved to play for Mourinho's Chelsea team. Ruud was strong, he was deceptively quick, he had tremendous shooting power and accuracy, timed his runs like clockwork. In a team that's trying to play through its #9 there weren't many better options than Ruud. I think all United fans recognise that. Ruud was better than Drogba, if you ask me, and easily better than the Shevchenko that turned up in West London.

Its kind of ironic to think about Ruud because, after basically a decade of mobile front lines and false #9s, it seems clubs are moving back towards looking for strikers. In this current era, where someone like Nunez is valued at £80m because there aren't many top centre forwards, Ruud would be worth Neymar money.
 
#07 said:
Agree and, in my opinion, I think Ronaldo was helped significantly by Saha's injury problems. At the time it felt like it would be an issue that we couldn't rely on Saha's fitness. However, the more Saha got injured, the more the team played through Ronaldo for goals. Something Ronaldo thrived off of.



Yeah. Ruud and Ronaldo was never going to be 'it'. Ruud was used to Beckham firing laser guided passes his way and, Ruud being Ruud, 90 per cent of the time he made the most of it. Ronaldo was never going to reduce himself to being a Beckham tribute act though. Even before he became a significant goal threat in his own right. Ronaldo was always going to be a bit of a show pony and it drove Ruud (and a lot of United fans) crazy.

As for Ruud himself, I don't see any disrespect in saying that, with the way Fergie (and Carlos) evolved the team, he became a bit of an odd man out. Football is a team sport and sometimes you have to sacrifice great individuals for the benefit of the collective. Ruud just didn't match the direction the 2006/07 team would go in.

However, I think Ruud would have loved to play for Mourinho's Chelsea team. Ruud was strong, he was deceptively quick, he had tremendous shooting power and accuracy, timed his runs like clockwork. In a team that's trying to play through its #9 there weren't many better options than Ruud. I think all United fans recognise that. Ruud was better than Drogba, if you ask me, and easily better than the Shevchenko that turned up in West London.

Its kind of ironic to think about Ruud because, after basically a decade of mobile front lines and false #9s, it seems clubs are moving back towards looking for strikers. In this current era, where someone like Nunez is valued at £80m because there aren't many top centre forwards, Ruud would be worth Neymar money.
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Think that's all fair comment except the Drogba bit because Chelsea used him as a battering ram aerially as well as for his hold up play; Ruud could've easily matched the hold up play, but I don't think he'd have done as well as Drogba at the aerial stuff or directly tussling with two centre-backs across the lines all game, which facilitated Lampard's game and had a lot of selfless to it. Not sure Ruud would be happy sharing goals with Lampard or having him take anything but the scraps he himself failed with - like a lion who eats first and doesn't care once full.

But yeah, other than that, I'm in full agreement with your post.
 
Fortitude said:
Think that's all fair comment except the Drogba bit because Chelsea used him as a battering ram aerially as well as for his hold up play; Ruud could've easily matched the hold up play, but I don't think he'd have done as well as Drogba at the aerial stuff or directly tussling with two centre-backs across the lines all game, which facilitated Lampard's game and had a lot of selfless to it. Not sure Ruud would be happy sharing goals with Lampard or having him take anything but the scraps he himself failed with - like a lion who eats first and doesn't care once full.

But yeah, other than that, I'm in full agreement with your post.
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That's fair. Drogba was uniquely well tooled to that aspect of Jose's tactical set up.
 
We might win the League this season if we had peak Ruud.
 
Yeah it was a bit bizarre to see posters saying things in the Haaland thread like “he’s just another Van Nistelrooy”. RvN was a brilliant player for us, unreal finisher. Anyone criticising him likely wasn’t around to see us back then as there’s no other explanation.
 
Best out and out striker we've had in 30 years without doubt.

Rooney and Cantona being different types of strikers.

The biggest praise you can give RVN is that it's a real conversation who out of these 3 is in our all time last 30 year first X1.
 
Raoul said:
Ruud was epic, which is why we need another.
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We'll have someone score 20-25 these days and people say it's a great season.
Ruud was 40s.

He was brilliant and up there with Henry, if not better as a finisher.
 
Ruud could hold the ball up like Martial but then also bag a brace against any opponent whether it be against Real Madrid or Norwich with his movement, heading, killer instinct something Tony seems absolutely incapable of at the moment
 
Also he was lethal from 12 yards and you just knew he was going to rifle it into the bottom corner.. except against Arsenal
 
Wonder Pigeon said:
He was maligned around the time he left United because the team definitely did benefit from moving him on, and the fans mostly sided with Ronaldo in their falling out. He seems mostly remembered fondly now though, thought most United fans wish him well managing PSV?
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I don't remember being particularly annoyed with him when he left. Think it was more that he'd had fitness issues and fell out with Ferguson. That and Saha at the time was also playing so well that it was actually a problem finding enough game time for all our forwards.

Do think there's an argument that picking him meant the team couldn't be as dynamic though. He did a lot more than goal poach but he was very much a ball to feet striker so wouldn't stretch teams and open space for others.

2002/2003 he was as good as anyone in the world. Especially during the last 3 months of the season when he basically just scored whenever he felt like it.
 
King Azaz the Unabridged said:
I mean, apart from the bit where he was by all accounts a bit of a bully to Ronaldo off the pitch. And a large part of our 2006-08 attack was the versatility of Saha/Rooney/Tevez that allowed Ronaldo to play with the freedom he did.

Van Nistelrooy was an incredible player, unlucky to play for us in the period between two great teams. We also improved without him in a way that may not have happened with him as a fixture in the XI, just because of his style of play. Both of these things can be true at the same time.
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It’s this. And, as a result, RvN’s legacy here has probably diminished slightly compared to what he deserves.
 
Zen86 said:
Yeah it was a bit bizarre to see posters saying things in the Haaland thread like “he’s just another Van Nistelrooy”. RvN was a brilliant player for us, unreal finisher. Anyone criticising him likely wasn’t around to see us back then as there’s no other explanation.
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Exactly, like it's an insult.

No one has said "he's just another ______" as a compliment.
 
crossy1686 said:
Exactly, but it feels like an easy comparison to make to Martial which is why you see his name more than Ruud who was 10x the player Martial dreams about being.
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TBH Ruud v Martial is not a fair comparison, totally different kind of players, I'm sure Martial dreams about being Mbappe!

I will say this, Ruud in this team would win us the PL
 
Red in STL said:
TBH Ruud v Martial is not a fair comparison, totally different kind of players, I'm sure Martial dreams about being Mbappe!

I will say this, Ruud in this team would win us the PL
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Comparing Rudd to Martial is an absolute insult to the Dutchman
 
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