Why is it so hard for Utd to get transfers done in and out?
- Thread starter wolvored
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I never said football consultant but I appreciate the faith you have in me thank you
Nice!
A large part of the problem is that United fans are desperate for United transfers, and so hammer the transfer forum all day, poring over every little tweet, and thus it seems to take forever, leading to fans getting more and more frustrated. A watched kettle never boils and all that.
They take little interest in the dealings of other clubs before players eventually sign though, so they imagine that the deal just happened overnight. And if a deal collapses, they rarely care or even knew it was going on in the first place, which gives the impression of other clubs only ever doing quick deals.
Personally I would say Chelsea are the circus club this summer. No doubt it'll be someone else next summer, but either way, it isnt only ever United that have up and down transfer windows.
They take little interest in the dealings of other clubs before players eventually sign though, so they imagine that the deal just happened overnight. And if a deal collapses, they rarely care or even knew it was going on in the first place, which gives the impression of other clubs only ever doing quick deals.
Personally I would say Chelsea are the circus club this summer. No doubt it'll be someone else next summer, but either way, it isnt only ever United that have up and down transfer windows.
We're here to serve.
Given the situation we were in at the beginning of the summer as a result of a lot of bad business in the past, I think we've done very well. The de Jong deal is complicated by Barca's own bad business and underhanded treatment of the player. Outside of that, we've finally made real progress in getting rid of bad contracts and done a good job on the other three signings so far.
It's foolish to think, or even hope, that everything will be resolved in a single window, but we are in a much better position than we were six months ago, in my opinion. This is an aircraft carrier, not a jet ski. Takes a bit more effort to make a 180*.
That said, getting results on the field will certainly help grease the wheels on future deals.
It's foolish to think, or even hope, that everything will be resolved in a single window, but we are in a much better position than we were six months ago, in my opinion. This is an aircraft carrier, not a jet ski. Takes a bit more effort to make a 180*.
That said, getting results on the field will certainly help grease the wheels on future deals.
Utd are known for overpaying and clubs want top dollar when selling to Utd, causing delays due to protracted negotiations.
"We are Man United, we get who we want" - chants during our pomp. Some of our transfer problems predates to Fergie's era, an attitude of getting "whomever" we want during our heyday was absolutely the right way to go about business during an era of dominating success.
But today, its high time we shed that image. Without success we are being taken to the cleaners on account of our commercial potential. Pogba for 90 mill, Maguire for 80 mill, Fred 47 mill, Sanchez, Sancho, AWB, .. name the player, we have paid way above worth for a lot of average duds. To make matters worse, we pay extortionate wages as its harder to keep players without on-field success making it harder for them to be re-sold of any value. Our board chose the strategy of literally throwing money and "over-selling" the club to maintain club's image despite our dropped performance in the hopes of getting good players sign for us and get us out of the rut. Looked like the right thing at that time, but it has backfired. We got 'mercenaries' with bad attitude. Ronaldo, Henderson, Martial, Pogba, Jlingz, Bailey, you can name almost the entire squad airing dirty laundry with zero regards for the club or the fans.
It seems we are repeating it again with Frank De Jong. However good he might be, we should stop going after players who don't want to come. Target players who would play with passion for the club. I would rather we start small, be in 10th place this season, fighting Crystal Palace than having a bunch of I-don't-want-to-play-for-you players in the club. How am I supposed to shout their names or cheer them knowing they didn't want to be here but for the money. These players drop their standards at their will. Jordan Henderson has a toe nail of talent compared to our lot, but the lad will run through brickhouses for his team. Where are the F-ing Keanes, Scholes and Nevilles. Our demand for immediate success is costing us. A good manager can change all of this, but the transfer strategy needs to improve.
I genuinely wish our transfer policy sheds an image of 'We will pay Anything" and go after players who are willing and put team first. Barca has outright lied their way to a re-build claiming penury and grabbing players. Pool, despite closing revenue gaps with us still maintain the image of uncle scrooge. Boldly rejected players (Werner, Jamal Lewis, Yves Bissouma, Fekir) as a statement of no transfer BS. Even City has gone on to shed the image saying no to overpaying (Sanchez, Van Dijk, Cucurella etc.). Bayern, despite all the commercial success always low-ball their targets. Only Madrid and PSG have a similar path, but both of them are shady state-run clubs who don't care about money and are always going to be a CL team with literally zero competition giving them the license to reach high. Chelsea to some extent, although lacking CL guarantee in a tougher league.
We should rebuild with hard working blue collar players and talented 'potentials' rather than established mercenaries. And somehow the FDJ saga is saying we are just repeating the old mistakes heading the "ANFIELD' way - 30 years of ignominious shite.
But today, its high time we shed that image. Without success we are being taken to the cleaners on account of our commercial potential. Pogba for 90 mill, Maguire for 80 mill, Fred 47 mill, Sanchez, Sancho, AWB, .. name the player, we have paid way above worth for a lot of average duds. To make matters worse, we pay extortionate wages as its harder to keep players without on-field success making it harder for them to be re-sold of any value. Our board chose the strategy of literally throwing money and "over-selling" the club to maintain club's image despite our dropped performance in the hopes of getting good players sign for us and get us out of the rut. Looked like the right thing at that time, but it has backfired. We got 'mercenaries' with bad attitude. Ronaldo, Henderson, Martial, Pogba, Jlingz, Bailey, you can name almost the entire squad airing dirty laundry with zero regards for the club or the fans.
It seems we are repeating it again with Frank De Jong. However good he might be, we should stop going after players who don't want to come. Target players who would play with passion for the club. I would rather we start small, be in 10th place this season, fighting Crystal Palace than having a bunch of I-don't-want-to-play-for-you players in the club. How am I supposed to shout their names or cheer them knowing they didn't want to be here but for the money. These players drop their standards at their will. Jordan Henderson has a toe nail of talent compared to our lot, but the lad will run through brickhouses for his team. Where are the F-ing Keanes, Scholes and Nevilles. Our demand for immediate success is costing us. A good manager can change all of this, but the transfer strategy needs to improve.
I genuinely wish our transfer policy sheds an image of 'We will pay Anything" and go after players who are willing and put team first. Barca has outright lied their way to a re-build claiming penury and grabbing players. Pool, despite closing revenue gaps with us still maintain the image of uncle scrooge. Boldly rejected players (Werner, Jamal Lewis, Yves Bissouma, Fekir) as a statement of no transfer BS. Even City has gone on to shed the image saying no to overpaying (Sanchez, Van Dijk, Cucurella etc.). Bayern, despite all the commercial success always low-ball their targets. Only Madrid and PSG have a similar path, but both of them are shady state-run clubs who don't care about money and are always going to be a CL team with literally zero competition giving them the license to reach high. Chelsea to some extent, although lacking CL guarantee in a tougher league.
We should rebuild with hard working blue collar players and talented 'potentials' rather than established mercenaries. And somehow the FDJ saga is saying we are just repeating the old mistakes heading the "ANFIELD' way - 30 years of ignominious shite.
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We're not slow to sign players, we've signed loads of players in the last decade, they have just been the wrong players, for the most part!
We struggle to sell players because we pay daft wages. After all the huffing and puffing and whingeing and whining and sulking from Pogba, plus being booed off at OT, he STILL wanted to sign a new deal...because he knew he was way overpaid.
Clubs consider the total package when signing a player so if someone is on £120K per week and the buying club give them a 3YR contract, that's almost £20m in salary before they have factored in the transfer fee
We struggle to sell players because we pay daft wages. After all the huffing and puffing and whingeing and whining and sulking from Pogba, plus being booed off at OT, he STILL wanted to sign a new deal...because he knew he was way overpaid.
Clubs consider the total package when signing a player so if someone is on £120K per week and the buying club give them a 3YR contract, that's almost £20m in salary before they have factored in the transfer fee
City have been chasing Cucurella for weeks, who now looks set to join Chelsea. Do they look like pricks? No, cos no one cares about City.
Unfortunately, United news sells. So much so in fact, that we are fed 20 updates a day when nothing has happened which whips everyone into a frenzy.
Unfortunately, United news sells. So much so in fact, that we are fed 20 updates a day when nothing has happened which whips everyone into a frenzy.
We’ve been terrible at it in the past, but there’s no reason to believe it’s been the case this summer. The fdj situation is very messy. If Chelsea are able to swoop in a get him in a few days it’s because the mess has been sorted out while we’ve been trying to get him, and that he prefers to go there. That’s not really United’s fault, not at this moment anyway.
No we are not. Having ten Hag doesn’t mean anything if the squad is short of numbers and basically the same. Arguably Martinez is the only player who improves the first 11.
I disagree. Tchoumeni and Camavinga went to Madrid in what seemed a blink of an eye, despite the selling club not really wanting to let them go and spend a month haggling with add-ons in the deal. Bayern and de ligt was done in the middle of the Martinez deal.
Both clubs mentioned are just as cash rich / high profile as United but do seem to get their transfers done quicker and on better deals than United do.
Some very strange outlooks in here.
United don't struggle to get transfer done (look at how quick Ronaldo was completed for example).
United do have a very well defined structure now in regards to scouting/recruitment.
Also, the reason the De Jong deal is taking ages is down to matters out of United's hands, also United are no longer in the game of over paying for players.
Malacia and Martinez happened very quickly, also Chelsea have been in talks with De Jong for nearly as long as United now.
United don't struggle to get transfer done (look at how quick Ronaldo was completed for example).
United do have a very well defined structure now in regards to scouting/recruitment.
Also, the reason the De Jong deal is taking ages is down to matters out of United's hands, also United are no longer in the game of over paying for players.
Malacia and Martinez happened very quickly, also Chelsea have been in talks with De Jong for nearly as long as United now.
You don't think Erikson is an improvement on a 34 year old Mata / static matic? I also think Malacia will be an improvement from Shaw very quickly.
I agree we're still light, but Rome wasn't built in a day and it will take a few transfer windows to get the players in ETH wants to play the style he wants as well.
Put into perspective the transfer window has been underwhelming. Waking up,on the other side of the world, tuning in to confirmation of the team being strengthened just doesn’t happen.
Surge, things are more difficult given the disastrous Woodward/Glazers reign, but there doesn’t seem to be a plan of any sort even these days to move quickly. Look at the teams around us, basically all have moved relatively quickly, the chase for players that basically don't want to sign seems to be endemic, every year and what are the targets outside of the difficult ones. The real plan is to move players on, and get players into positions of weakness, when is that going to happen with Murtaugh and his inexperienced crew, do they really have to get permission for each transfer from the absent and disinterested owner, who knows.
Anyway, another nights sleep, followed by a hopeful look for completed signings, rinse, repeat ! !
Surge, things are more difficult given the disastrous Woodward/Glazers reign, but there doesn’t seem to be a plan of any sort even these days to move quickly. Look at the teams around us, basically all have moved relatively quickly, the chase for players that basically don't want to sign seems to be endemic, every year and what are the targets outside of the difficult ones. The real plan is to move players on, and get players into positions of weakness, when is that going to happen with Murtaugh and his inexperienced crew, do they really have to get permission for each transfer from the absent and disinterested owner, who knows.
Anyway, another nights sleep, followed by a hopeful look for completed signings, rinse, repeat ! !
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That last 2 paragraphs aint true. We overpaid for Martinez and Chelsea have been nowhere near as long chasing DeJong as we have.
Did they sign him?
Just checked cant see anything.
We paid less than what Ajax were originally asking for Martinez, £46-48m plus add ons. A pretty decent deal.
Chelsea have been in talks with De Jong since May all told. I know United's interest has been there for a while but as far as I know we only started talks around a similar time, ie, when Ten Hag was properly announced and he had finished with Ajax.
I reckon Eriksen is going to be more than just an upgrade on departed squad players. Bruno and McTominay, especially the latter, are going to be under pressure for their regular starts from him.
I think you could be right about Malacia, but right now it doesn’t really matter. The key thing about him is that he’s a significant upgrade on Telles, who has been our de-facto first choice owing to Shaw’s hopeless unavailability.
Squad wise, yes we’re certainly worse off than last season at the moment, but our continued pursuit of a midfielder and forward shows that the club realises that.
It's frustrating and making development hard, but we are also dealing with a decade of mismanagement and overspending. That's a market reputation that can't be changed overnight, especially with the same owners in place.
Selling players is hard because the ones we're wanting to move on are simply not good enough to be earning what they currently are. Getting them off the books is a challenge. Loans are probably the only way to manage the amount we contractually owe them. What we simply cannot continue to do is offer contracts to fringe players in order to protect market value. We did this loads under Woodward and I'm not sure it worked once.
I think FDJ is a unique situation, but the process in which we buy players has continued to be an issue this summer. We have still not fixed any of the key areas from last season, and we don't seem able to match the financial strength of rivals who finished above or even around us. This, for me, is the biggest issue - our spending for a new manager has been appalling off the back of such a shocking season. FDJ should be a "nice if you get him" signing based on the complexity of the deal, not one you are totally reliant on. There have been such good deals this summer that would have improved us massively yet we've been nowhere near them and that's a huge issue still.
Selling players is hard because the ones we're wanting to move on are simply not good enough to be earning what they currently are. Getting them off the books is a challenge. Loans are probably the only way to manage the amount we contractually owe them. What we simply cannot continue to do is offer contracts to fringe players in order to protect market value. We did this loads under Woodward and I'm not sure it worked once.
I think FDJ is a unique situation, but the process in which we buy players has continued to be an issue this summer. We have still not fixed any of the key areas from last season, and we don't seem able to match the financial strength of rivals who finished above or even around us. This, for me, is the biggest issue - our spending for a new manager has been appalling off the back of such a shocking season. FDJ should be a "nice if you get him" signing based on the complexity of the deal, not one you are totally reliant on. There have been such good deals this summer that would have improved us massively yet we've been nowhere near them and that's a huge issue still.
How have you come to that conclusion after only seeing him start one match? For the time I saw him in our shirt at the weekend he looked decent value to me.
I don't think it's just the wages. It's the wages relative to performance. City seem to have no problem moving on fringe players or high salary first teamers as they are selling squad players that have performed well as part of a successful team. Same goes for Liverpool and, in part, Chelsea. But having players on similar wages at United, obviously other teams will often prefer A) a more successful City/Pool/Chelsea player with a similar (possibly even higher) salary B) a player from another league or bottom half EPL teams on a much lower salary.
That's why Ten Haag is crucial. If he can improve performances on the pitch and the whole squad including fringe players can add value on the pitch here and there (think Minamino goals at Pool in the cups last year) it will be much easier to sell those players next year. For those who are not in Ten Haags plans at all a loan is probably the sensible option to put them in the shopping window. Telles has Shaw and Malacia ahead of him and likely wouldn't even get Cup appearances.
I'm guessing we're having a hard time selling players because we've given out some luxurious contracts (even to some mediocre players) that are hard to match by other clubs. So from a financial POV it just makes more sense for the players to run out the contracts. They can sign better contracts when they a free agents. (See Lingard etc.)
In terms of buying players. I'm guessing we're feeling the consequences of being poorly run for a decade and missing out on Champions League far more often than we're in it.
In terms of buying players. I'm guessing we're feeling the consequences of being poorly run for a decade and missing out on Champions League far more often than we're in it.
Ajax put the price up further after we went in for him it was on manchester evening news I saw it. It might eventually be a bargain as you say, but I am saying his price jumped after his initial valuation.
Although it does appear we are the worst among the top 6 in summer transfer dealings, I think the key is to bring the players who would fit best in manager system. I trust ETH would bring us the right type of players he wanted for us, but that would take some time (could take several windows).
I think there are a few reasons.
Firstly, as soon as a club gets wind that United are interested, the price goes up and various 'complications' arise that mean they require more money. This directly relates to the next reason...
Secondly, incompetence. We have had a long period of having completely incompetent people in charge of the clubs transfer business. This has seen us massively overpay for players (leading clubs to charge us more knowing it's likely we'll pay up) and struggle to get deals over the line due to ridiculously comedic handling of transfers.
Lastly, some of it feels like it's strategic. We all heard that we had a small transfer budget this season right? Nobody wants to believe it and it would look bad for the owners if we just buy three players when we had our worst season in memory. But what if we spent all of that money and then also made it seem like we were seriously chasing another player or two right down to the wire, only to find that 'oh no!' he's decided to stay at his current club or move to a rival?
This shows intent on the part of the owners. The only reason we didn't spend the extra £80m was because the target had been using us, or the club he's at were difficult to deal with, otherwise we definitely would have!
Just need to find a player to 'chase' with a good enough stature, who is currently at a club who are notoriously difficult to deal with and has major complications that would affect any potential transfer...
Firstly, as soon as a club gets wind that United are interested, the price goes up and various 'complications' arise that mean they require more money. This directly relates to the next reason...
Secondly, incompetence. We have had a long period of having completely incompetent people in charge of the clubs transfer business. This has seen us massively overpay for players (leading clubs to charge us more knowing it's likely we'll pay up) and struggle to get deals over the line due to ridiculously comedic handling of transfers.
Lastly, some of it feels like it's strategic. We all heard that we had a small transfer budget this season right? Nobody wants to believe it and it would look bad for the owners if we just buy three players when we had our worst season in memory. But what if we spent all of that money and then also made it seem like we were seriously chasing another player or two right down to the wire, only to find that 'oh no!' he's decided to stay at his current club or move to a rival?
This shows intent on the part of the owners. The only reason we didn't spend the extra £80m was because the target had been using us, or the club he's at were difficult to deal with, otherwise we definitely would have!
Just need to find a player to 'chase' with a good enough stature, who is currently at a club who are notoriously difficult to deal with and has major complications that would affect any potential transfer...
I just don’t think we are such a mouth watering club to join to be honest.
Lack of Lingard
Whole thread based on a hypothetical that de jong goes to Chelsea 'quickly'. Go find articles from the start of the summer when it also said Chelsea were looking at de jong. It has taken them just as long as us to get nowhere
I read in the Daily Star in like 2000 that Utd were close to completing a "triple swoop" for Davids, Ronald De Boer and Marcelo Salas. Absolute joke how long it's taking them to announce the deal
Despite all the evidence of this no doubt we'll still get posters in here acting like everything is fine.
It's appalling from the club honestly. Look at Chelsea for example whenever they missed out on a target, they immediately moved on to another. It's not ideal but it's clear they have a shortlist. We seem like we have a shortlist of one player per position. Can't get Antony oh well RW is fecked, same situation with De Jong. We need a RB too, I don't even think we have anyone earmarked for that.
It's schoolboy stuff honestly. I will give Arnold and Murtough a pass for this summer but if it continues next summer then its no different to Ed really.
It's appalling from the club honestly. Look at Chelsea for example whenever they missed out on a target, they immediately moved on to another. It's not ideal but it's clear they have a shortlist. We seem like we have a shortlist of one player per position. Can't get Antony oh well RW is fecked, same situation with De Jong. We need a RB too, I don't even think we have anyone earmarked for that.
It's schoolboy stuff honestly. I will give Arnold and Murtough a pass for this summer but if it continues next summer then its no different to Ed really.
It's true but Chelsea also look like an infinite money club this summer, we already had summers like that but we fluffed them buy purchasing the wrong players.
Now I believe we are changing the strategy and also we no longer have the money to compete with the big clubs.
well we are in the Europa League and have looked like a disaster of a club for the last 5 ish years. That and going after an impossible targets tend to do it.
Another point that needs to be brought up more often is our reluctance to make external appointments. Everything is very jobs for the boys behind the scenes and they all seem to be looking out for each other and fear being exposed as incompetent by outsiders.
Inexperienced and/or incompetent people in important positions has been United's main problem in the last ten years. It still appears that the club is hamstrung by this problem. It is absolutely ludicrous that after their worst season in Premier League history, United will line up with Fred and McTominay starting in midfield this weekend.
It's schoolboy stuff honestly. I will give Arnold and Murtough a pass for this summer but if it continues next summer then its no different to Ed really.
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i would not give Arnold or Murtough any pass. Ten Hag was appointed early, meetings would have been held well in advance of the end of the season and Ten hag was at Old Trafford immediately after Ajax last game to get things moving early before any holidays. Nothing has changed to our shambolic dealings in transfer market. Don't quote the signings we have made, a free 30 year old , young right back plus martinez. We are again as every other year entering the "Rip off Utd " period where we are desperate and will pay above going rate. Until these failings are sorted Ten Hag has one hand tied behind his back. Out goings ? well that a shambles too. We can't sell a first team player which says it all. No one else value our fringe squad players. Wait for it " There wasn't value in the market" its Mcfred and Martial folks.
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i would not give Arnold or Murtough any pass. Ten Hag was appointed early, meetings would have been held well in advance of the end of the season and Ten hag was at Old Trafford immediately after Ajax last game to get things moving early before any holidays. Nothing has changed to our shambolic dealings in transfer market. Don't quote the signings we have made, a free 30 year old , young right back plus martinez. We are again as every other year entering the "Rip off Utd " period where we are desperate and will pay above going rate. Until these failings are sorted Ten Hag has one hand tied behind his back. Out goings ? well that a shambles too. We can't sell a first team player which says it all. No one else value our fringe squad players. Wait for it " There wasn't value in the market" its Mcfred and Martial folks.
Our recruitment of staff is abysmal. This stems from the very top unfortunately and will not be possible to rectify. Either the owners deliberately recruit imbeciles like Murtough and Arnold as they are useful idiots to carry out their wishes; or they simply don’t care and don’t put any thought into recruiting key staff.
Either way it leaves us with shambolic squad development, and McFred are going to start as our midfield due to gross incompetence.
We really haven’t had any sort of long term plan either with was the result of never really having a DOF.
We buy the players the next manager would not want to use and spend most of our time looki after them and just adding more to the list.
We buy the players the next manager would not want to use and spend most of our time looki after them and just adding more to the list.
In my opinion there are 4 reasons to that
a- our negotiation team lack the experience needed to get transfers done in an efficient and effective way. They also lack the experience and respect needed to truly engage with the manager as well and come out with alternative options to his shortlist. This is Murtough's first stint as DOF and its O'Boyle's first experience as deputy DOF as well
b-ETH is fixated with players who played in the Dutch League. Which makes United very predictable on the transfer market and easy prey to be taken to the cleaners
c- Cardiff left a mess behind and I don't think we've got a huge transfer budget to sort that at one go. If we did then we would be splashing money left right and centre.
d- our current squad are paid ridiculously high with very little talent to compensate for it. Which means that its difficult for us to get rid of players
a- our negotiation team lack the experience needed to get transfers done in an efficient and effective way. They also lack the experience and respect needed to truly engage with the manager as well and come out with alternative options to his shortlist. This is Murtough's first stint as DOF and its O'Boyle's first experience as deputy DOF as well
b-ETH is fixated with players who played in the Dutch League. Which makes United very predictable on the transfer market and easy prey to be taken to the cleaners
c- Cardiff left a mess behind and I don't think we've got a huge transfer budget to sort that at one go. If we did then we would be splashing money left right and centre.
d- our current squad are paid ridiculously high with very little talent to compensate for it. Which means that its difficult for us to get rid of players