Why is it so hard for Utd to get transfers done in and out?

Litch said:
You have just described in principle any football club, it’s not unique to Utd but feels it cause it’s our own lived experience
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Well, not just any football club, but certainly ones that historically take part in and occasionally even win the European Cup (Champions League) yet currently no longer always qualify & getting top-4 this season is going to be a struggle.

There is a reason that Man Utd. signed up for the ill-fated European Super-League and this is basically it: you can't pay for (and pay the wages of) the top players if you are not in the top competition - the super league would have guaranteed that. But I'm glad it didn't go ahead though because if there are no consequences for poor results you basically end-up with a series of exhibition matches and what's the point of that!
 
If not for the De Jong saga then our business would likely be done by now, it’s holding other stuff up.
Outgoings is simply a wage issue on our end, we pay more than everyone else.
 
In because we are shite and no one wants to play for us especially that we do not play champions league.

out because the wage structure is very aggressive and no player is willing to take a wage cut to join other teams.
 
Outgoings it goes back to the Glazers and Woodward's consistent approach of 'protecting value' and as such we've continued to offer ridiculous contract renewals to players who simply don't deserve it. Those said players go on to continue to prove themselves inconsistent, injured or basically as crap as they were before the renewal but are left on stupid wages that no-one wants to take on. So we get poor fees if anything for them. In addition we've made stupid decisions on players such as Lingard but I put that on Ole.

As for incomings I actually think we've done much better this summer than previously. We've secured 3 players fairly quickly including moving very fast to get Malacia from under Lyon's noses. It feels to me that we had a plan of FDJ, a CM (Eriksen), and a CB (Martinez) as priorities. I'm not sure on Malacia but very happy we've got him at a good price. Reading between the lines once these were secured we were then have a plan to offload some players before then hopefully targeting the other areas such as CF, RB and GK.

The FDJ one is just odd now though, if we're still going ETH must have been told by FDJ and his representatives that the deal is a goer once he sorts his issues out in Barca. If this doesn't happen either ETH has seriously messed up in chasing a target that wasn't going to come or the relationship he has with Murtough / Arnold is going to be fractured at a very early stage.
 
Because the club has a power vacuum that still hasn't been filled, and hasn't learned that it's one thing giving someone like SAF absolute power but a very different thing with anyone else.
 
JuriM said:
It really isn't. Some transfers are just complicated and some players have preferred countries or clubs they want to join, despite some other's interest and there is just nothing we can do about it.

All clubs have had the similar problems as such - Real Madrid chasing Mbappe for ages and failing.

City not getting Cucurella*

Chelsea missing out on several targets and not getting the right players or being forced to pay way above the odds on secondary targets.

And you can keep on naming and "shaming" all over the place.

Blaming United on Frenkie or Antony is just weird and agenda-setting, especially if you are a club supporter. Giving the knowledge of how we restricted the whole scouting and managerial department also.
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Agree. People also forget footballers have wives, children and extended families to consider, decisions aren’t always about money or what happens on the pitch.
 
Idxomer said:
Chasing players at big clubs with CL football was always going to be a bad idea this season.

Ten Hag's system and football weren't obscure before his appointment, realistic targets suited for his system should've been drawn months ago and acted upon the moment the season ended.
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Absolutely right and I have no clue why we aren't operating like this. Get together with ten Hag, define a clear profile of the players he wants for his system, get the new data analyst team to work on stats databases and then put the scouts to work, see if the player passes the eye test, if the personality is right and all the stuff stats sometimes can't tell you. Ideally you have your targets set by the start of the transfer window, which was unrealistic in our case since ETH only just started with us, but still there was loads of time now to find appropriate targets who are willing to come here and get the deals done, ideally before the season starts. Of course you can still be on the lookout until the final day of the transfer window if you can get deals done but don't drag every important decision out till it's almost deadline day and we are already 4 games into the new season.
 
Litch said:
Why do you think CL is important to players?
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The Champions League or back in the day the European Cup was always known as the top, top cup to win at club level. Top players want to win the top honours.
 
Azhar88 said:
Well, not just any football club, but certainly ones that historically take part in and occasionally even win the European Cup (Champions League) yet currently no longer always qualify & getting top-4 this season is going to be a struggle.

There is a reason that Man Utd. signed up for the ill-fated European Super-League and this is basically it: you can't pay for (and pay the wages of) the top players if you are not in the top competition - the super league would have guaranteed that. But I'm glad it didn't go ahead though because if there are no consequences for poor results you basically end-up with a series of exhibition matches and what's the point of that!
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No any football club. Fans talk like the last 10 years defines the club, it doesn’t. Utd and Liverpool are probably the only two clubs in this league that would still make money, without CL football and attract big players too….
 
In terms of selling, we just don't do it at the right time.

Henderson should have been sold as soon as he got back from Sheff Utd, same with Lingard when he got back from West Ham

We generally seem to cling onto our youngsters in hope that they become amazing, when in reality they most likely won't. Look at Liverpool, they sell their youngsters because they know they probably won't make it and get that value for them in when they can

James Garner should have gone to Forrest for £15m this summer. I like the kid but chances are he won't make it here... And if he could? Well buy back clauses are a thing that exist. Use them.
 
NLunited said:
First of all, your statement is bs. We signed Malacia who was bound for Lyon and Eriksen who had other options as well. The Martinez deal was done quickly as well.

Secondly, some high profile targets are hard to get. Villa is not trying to sign Frenkie are they?
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RaddyRed said:
As a fan it's frustrating but the reality is De Jong is a very complicated transfer that is being held up by circumstances out of our control and Anthony price tag is ridiculous. I would be more upset at signing him for an inflated fee than not. See Pepe and Arsenal.

The new regime will also struggle to get rid of players on inflated wages, just as anyone would.
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Chief123 said:
Every club chases transfers and has sagas.

We signed Malacia, Martinez and Eriksen fairly quickly. Chelsea chased Raphina and Kounde for weeks and failed. All clubs have wins and losses.
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Spot on.
 
mikeyt said:
Outgoings it goes back to the Glazers and Woodward's consistent approach of 'protecting value' and as such we've continued to offer ridiculous contract renewals to players who simply don't deserve it. Those said players go on to continue to prove themselves inconsistent, injured or basically as crap as they were before the renewal but are left on stupid wages that no-one wants to take on. So we get poor fees if anything for them. In addition we've made stupid decisions on players such as Lingard but I put that on Ole.

As for incomings I actually think we've done much better this summer than previously. We've secured 3 players fairly quickly including moving very fast to get Malacia from under Lyon's noses. It feels to me that we had a plan of FDJ, a CM (Eriksen), and a CB (Martinez) as priorities. I'm not sure on Malacia but very happy we've got him at a good price. Reading between the lines once these were secured we were then have a plan to offload some players before then hopefully targeting the other areas such as CF, RB and GK.

The FDJ one is just odd now though, if we're still going ETH must have been told by FDJ and his representatives that the deal is a goer once he sorts his issues out in Barca. If this doesn't happen either ETH has seriously messed up in chasing a target that wasn't going to come or the relationship he has with Murtough / Arnold is going to be fractured at a very early stage.
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This first paragraph is absolutely spot-on.

Born2Lose said:
Because the club has a power vacuum that still hasn't been filled, and hasn't learned that it's one thing giving someone like SAF absolute power but a very different thing with anyone else.
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Well, hopefully that has been solved last week, as more power has been returned to Sir Alex.

(I'm joking, I don't like that decision and I would love to know what ETH thinks about it).
 
NoLogo said:
Loads of reasons I guess. For some it's probably got to do with growing their personal brand, for others it's the fact that they want to compete at the highest level and for Ronnie it's simply to make certain he keeps his goal scoring record.
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So signing for Utd, one of the largest brands in sport doesn’t help their personal brand?
So you sign a 4 year deal to play in a cup competition that you probably won’t win?
I think the Ronnie thing is BS and it’s more the fact, he’s been told he’s not starting every week.
 
Litch said:
No any football club. Fans talk like the last 10 years defines the club, it doesn’t. Utd and Liverpool are probably the only two clubs in this league that would still make money, without CL football and attract big players too….
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Can you name one big player who has joined Utd. recently that a) isn't Portugese or b) hadn't been with the club previously or c) both of these!
 
Azhar88 said:
The Champions League or back in the day the European Cup was always known as the top, top cup to win at club level. Top players want to win the top honours.
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Then they better only sign for Real and not take Peps calls…..
 
Azhar88 said:
Can you name one big player who has joined Utd. recently that a) isn't Portugese or b) hadn't been with the club previously or c) both of these!
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I like quizzes. Def big and how recent?
 
Litch said:
So signing for Utd, one of the largest brands in sport doesn’t help their personal brand?
So you sign a 4 year deal to play in a cup competition that you probably won’t win?
I think the Ronnie thing is BS and it’s more the fact, he’s been told he’s not starting every week.
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Well not if you already play for Barca I would reckon. Given our recent rebuild history it's also far from certain that a player who joins us now is going to compete for trophies in the near future, so I reckon that isn't very attractive to a lot of the top players either. Like I said it's probably a mixture of loads of things for players, for de Jong specifically it might simply be down the fact that really likes playing for Barca and doesn't want to leave the club if possible.
 
Lecland07 said:
I do not really get the problem with our approach this summer: the club seem to only want to sign players they deem good enough. What is the problem with that? Do you want the club to sign any old alternative to De Jong just because you want a midfield signing? More than likely, we will just end up with another average midfielder that people will end up complaining about.

I believe the club is actually going about this correctly. They have tried to sign a quality midfielder in De Jong, which is complicated for known reasons. They have also stated that there are alternatives to sign, but have also stated that a potential alternative is looking to within the club (academy). In this way, we will not waste money signing lesser players that people will want rid of in the near future. In the end, whether it is a new signing or from youth, we are going to end up with some new midfielders in this season.

We have also signed players, anyway. Eriksen is a smart signing for free, who can play CM and AM. Martinez is capable of playing DM and CB. Malacia is a promising looking, and relatively cheap, player who could add a lot more to the team than people are thinking. We have also seen youth players like Zidane and Savage for midfield positions. We seem to be going about the transfers more patiently and trying to ensure we end up with what we actually need, rather than a short-term, lesser solution. I can think of many of the latter signings in the last decade.

I think this season is more about getting some our existing players back to the standard they can play at. They were terrible last season, no doubt, but some of these players are much better than what they showed. Rashford, Sancho (playing on the right as he should be), Fernandes, Maguire, Martial, and many other players. Ten Hag can get more out of these players.

Also, I really don't get why people think the De Jong thing is embarrassing? It is weird. We put in a bid that was accepted, and that is literally it. What is embarrassing about that? Are people imagining that Murtough and Arnold are on the phone every day, harassing Barcelona and De Jong to make the move to sign for the club?
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100%, we are signing players who will be XI material and not just an average players. We have so many mediocre players in the squad and nobody wants them. Who's fault is it? I am happy with 3 signings so far. If we can get the next 2 transfer windows with quality, we will be back Top 4. There are a few youngsters breaking through so it definitely helps either for depth or enhance their sales value down the road.
 
Mickeza said:
Varane. Sancho. Literally 12 months ago.
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Well Varane is 6 ft 3" but Sancho is only 5ft 11"




Ok, ok, I'm joking - I stand corrected on that. (But I hope Sancho has a better next season form wise and I hope Varane has less injury issues).
 
Out:

Pay structure is bananas and we always sell for cheaper because of this, Dan James is our 3rd ever highest transfer out.

Also we dont sell correctly Man City have sold to Chelsea and Arsenal this window i very much doubt we'd do the same because of some weird thing that this player isnt good enough for us but he'll make our rivals better.

Lastly on this desirability our players arent that desirable because of the performance of the team meaning no one wants them all the time especially the ones we do not want.

In:

Our main targets are always super flashy names and are at big clubs who dont necessarily need the money so agreeing fees is hard and expensive

Our scouting is basic i mean the players we mostly get linked to anyone with a brain who watches football can say they want over the years Sancho, Rice, De Jong etc etc (this does look to be changing Malacia is an example of this)

In terms of this season we are seemingly backing the manager to make the calls RE De Jong and this long pursuit i imagine EtH has said he is central to all plans to exhaust the potion to get him until the end
 
NoLogo said:
Well not if you already play for Barca I would reckon. Given our recent rebuild history it's also far from certain that a player who joins us now is going to compete for trophies in the near future, so I reckon that isn't very attractive to a lot of the top players either. Like I said it's probably a mixture of loads of things for players, for de Jong specifically it might simply be down the fact that really likes playing for Barca and doesn't want to leave the club if possible.
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Yes - he or his wife or gf (or bf) might not like rain!

On a serious note @Gavinb33 said "...our scouting is basic i mean the players we mostly get linked to anyone with a brain who watches football can say they want over the years Sancho, Rice, De Jong etc etc (this does look to be changing Malacia is an example of this).

Well I'm not so sure about that, I seem to remember hearing somewhere that United had a massive online database of potential targets, loads of analytics, the problem was, out of 800 defenders the computer said 'buy Aaron Wan-Bissaka'.

Which begs the question, what computer were they using?
 
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NoLogo said:
Well not if you already play for Barca I would reckon. Given our recent rebuild history it's also far from certain that a player who joins us now is going to compete for trophies in the near future, so I reckon that isn't very attractive to a lot of the top players either. Like I said it's probably a mixture of loads of things for players, for de Jong specifically it might simply be down the fact that really likes playing for Barca and doesn't want to leave the club if possible.
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You might be right, but I think people make decisions for lots of reasons. I think some players and managers want to be remembered for bringing success back to a club than just going there cause they might win something now. If you look a Grealish, if he brought a trophy to the Villa, it probably would be worth more to him in football folk law than another PL title with City….
 
It would be a lot easier to get rid of players if they were actually any good. But after last season who would actually want to take them...other clubs are not stupid.

AWB is almost unsellable due to poor performances along with high wages and a big transfer fee. Also the player himself doesn't seem desperate for first team football either, you never hear from him looking for a club etc.

Frankie is just a odd target, and no matter the outcome I will never believe he actually wants to play for Manchester United. Its on the club 100% for wasting most of the summer with that one.
 
Because we aint a football club, i mean they with blessings of managers extending contracts to protect players value like we are NBA franchise.
 
Azhar88 said:
Yes - he or his wife or gf (or bf) might not like rain!
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I always wondered about things like the climate, I’d play in the snow for 4 years whilst planning what island I’m going to build my house on in the Caribbean after it….
 
From an outsiders pespective: the football being played has been absolute shit for many years. Chaos in the dressingroom, leaks, diva’s like Lingard and Ronaldo, and a whole reserveteam of bang average players being made into multimillionaires.
The Glazers that dont care about football and milk United every year together with an incompetent board.

Club needs a complete overhaul and I expected it to be this summer. But EtH his backing has been absolutely SHIT. You guys have not spend anything in January to be able to spend more this summer.

Meanwhile if Chelsea sign all their players theyve spend around 300 million.
Absolute disgrace.

The initial 120mil budget was already laughable but the fact that you guys cant offload any of the deadwood due to those ridiculous salaries makes it even worse.
 
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I think a lot of it is largely due to perspective. Here we are consuming every little morsel of transfer news about targets, taking rumours as gospel and watching YouTube compilations. That brings a sense of attachment and investment. All the while, we are paying very little attention to other teams other than the major headlines that come in about deals being agreed.
I’m sure if you were to ask fans of lots of clubs they will say similar to us because they have that same investment to their team and probably look at us and think “Utd have got three good players in there” whilst a player they aren’t even in for has a transfer saga attached.
Our perception is that other teams deal quickly, purely because we aren’t following that story
 
Transfers In

We have managed to get the less complicated deals done relatively easily like Martinez, Eriksen and Malacia.

Where we have struggled is when the deal has more complexity like FDJ but I think this is more related to the ongoing issue with deferred wages.

Generally we will struggle to get the top players in because we aren't in the champions league, last season for a shambles and the club is generally badly run. Our only real bargaining chip is that we can offer huge contracts.

We need to focus on quickly acquiring younger players who haven't quite hit superstar status yet but have the potential to. Liverpool have done this really well in recent years with the like of Mane, Salah, VVD, Diaz, Jota etc. All really good players but have gone up a level since joining Liverpool.

We also have to consider that there is the "United Tax" that still exists even though we have limited budget from the Glazers to spend on transfers.

Transfers Out

It is difficult for us to sell the players we don't want because they are either on massive wages compared to their talent, we overpaid and want to recoup most of our outlay, they players have underperformed in the last few seasons, have questionable attitudes, aging or are injury prone.

We probably only have 4 or 5 players that would be interesting to other clubs if they came on the market and these are the ones we want to keep.

To name a few examples, Ronaldo is one of the greatest players who ever lived but his age and huge salary means no one wants to take him. Then we have players like Bailly who I really rate but he just can't stay fit. No club wants to pay huge salaries for a player with questionable fitness
 
I think we get a certain amount of transfers done early and leave the rest to negotiate later to get better value. Maybe the expensive transfers?

This definitely may have cost us Antony, Nunez and Nkunku this summer as the players or their clubs didn't want to wait around for a last minute headache.

We're left with all our eggs in the De Jong, Antony and Sesko baskets now.

Seemingly no backup players clubs have been approached yet or atleast it hasn't leaked to the media.

We didn't move soon enough or care enough about getting the player over the additional cost of showing our cards early. We paid more for Martinez as it was probably the biggest priority for Ten Hag to replace Maguire as LCB and have him partner Varane.

RW, RB and ST were not judged to be the biggest priorities for the transfer team whether rightly or wrongly.

We approached Barca for De Jong early enough but he could prove a red herring and we underestimated how ruthless Ronaldo was in terms of wanting to leave which has fecked us over on the ST situation.

We waited while Ajax sold Haller and Gravenberch before approaching them for Antony and now they don't need to sell and would probably get more if he features for Brazil at the winter World Cup.

We haven't got rid of AWB to get the replacement in, we could go for a Dumfries and AWB swap with Inter? But nothing is on the cards just yet. We're probably praying Palace come back and take him on a loan/purchase.

Any way you look at it the clubs decision makers have fecked up. We need 5 players in a CDM, RW, ST, RB and backup GK.

With the amount of players we knew we were letting go/leaving this is atrocious. 4 weeks left to sign 5 players that make our starting lineup and squad better.

Club has nowhere to hide when the window closes if they don't pull it off.
 
We have a hierarchy that doesn’t really understand football transfers. And scouting systems that doesn’t do it’s due diligence in terms of player availability. A terrible negotiating team. And we overall are completly disorganised as who is in charge of what.
 
Graveyard for players and a piggy bank at the same time, it´s just a bad combo.
 
Nytram Shakes said:
We have a hierarchy that doesn’t really understand football transfers. And scouting systems that doesn’t do it’s due diligence in terms of player availability. A terrible negotiating team. And we overall are completly disorganised as who is in charge of what.
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You seem to know everything about the inner workings of the club. Impressive. Considered making some money as a consultant?!
 
Because we have a special class of idiot being handed decision making roles at the club.

In fact, they are unique in the world of football in their stupendous abilities to royally cock things up.

Give Phil Jones a 5 year contract worth 150k. You got it.

Put Martial and Rashford on 250k. No worries- of course they will give you a return stratospheres below the likes of Salah and Mane but who cares?.

Fire the scouts before our most important window for years with no plan to compensate. Sounds like a great idea.

Receive bids for the perennial underperforming social media star, Jesse Lingard to get him off the books. No, why not keep him to not play, pay him another years wages and leave on a free?

Go down to Barcelona to sign FDJ. Nope, we can’t finish that deal off because we have to go back home and procrastinate for a couple of months and then allow Chelsea to sign him.

Whether or not it’s the current idiots running the club or the previous ones, the qualities we focus on are the same when hiring and promoting these geniuses to important roles within the club. It’s quite amazing how we manage to keep up the levels of inadequacy.
 
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