Why do we get battered so often?

Loon said:
That was at home (I was actually at that game!) and it didn't have quite the same impact the City result did.

Today was Anfield and also a very different United side, but if you're content we still did the right thing after a 7-0 pumping, that's cool.
Click to expand...
No, he's talking about a different Spurs game, from 2001.

The 2009 game, Aaron Lennon's best ever first half, was indeed at Old Trafford but they only went 2-0 up.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Yup. I am indeed content that we didn’t give up after going 3-0 down. I never want to see us do that. I also think the late goals we scored from not giving up against City when we were 4-0 down earlier this season helped set us up for the next game. Hence I’m content we didn’t quit in that match either.
Click to expand...

I love your positivity (quite honestly). I just feel shite after this horrific result.
 
Siorac said:
No, he's talking about a different Spurs game, from 2001.

The 2009 game, Aaron Lennon's best ever first half, was indeed at Old Trafford but they only went 2-0 up.
Click to expand...

I meant the Harry Redknapp one. When was that? Blimey, my memory...
 
Loon said:
I love your positivity (quite honestly). I just feel shite after this horrific result.
Click to expand...

Ah yeah. Same. And I would feel less shite if we’d “only” lost three nil. What pisses me off the most about shipping so many goals is what that might do for Liverpool. That’s the real killer. I still don’t ever want to see us quit at 3 nil down though.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Ah yeah. Same. And I would feel less shite if we’d “only” lost three nil. What pisses me off the most about shipping so many goals is what that might do for Liverpool. That’s the real killer. I still don’t ever want to see us quit at 3 nil down though.
Click to expand...

Ordinarily I wouldn't either. This is just a hindsight reflection if I'm honest.

I also agree it will likely propel the dippers into the top four.
 
Teams get fired up to beat us because we're the ultimate scalp. So when we have a real off day we're more likely to get hammered than other teams.
 
Well for some players getting battered is the norm now; Shaw, Bruno, Rashford, DDG, McT. Maybe its their mentality? Like its ok to lose 6-0. They were not even trying. We have to gradually remove some of them. Mct and DDG probably the first out.
 
Josep Dowling said:
We have got very lucky with our cup draws this season bar Barcelona. It was exactly the same when Mourinho won the League Cup and Europa League. There has been progress this season but I still don’t think we are as good as people think. Liverpool and Chelsea are having particularly bad seasons.
Click to expand...

This is an overreaction. We were absolutely terrible in the league under Jose his first season. We’ve had 3 terrible freak results but amazing results and performances elsewhere. No one can deny the humiliation of today but big picture we’ve seen major improvements under ten Hag.
 
No standards whatsoever amongst the board, owners, players, staff and the fanbase. Look at the responses today on this forum for such a historic humiliation passed off as “bad day at the office.” “It’s just 3 points”
 
Because we don’t shut up shop when we’re having a bad day and consistently get opened up again when we’re being thrashed.
 
Loon said:
I love your positivity (quite honestly). I just feel shite after this horrific result.
Click to expand...

Worst I have ever felt as a Utd fan and as I have said repeatedly worst performance in history
 
Our lack of control with possession leaves us vulnerable against any half decent team. We need a CM capable of retaining possession under pressure.
 
We must be the only team who thinks they can score 4 when 3-0 down at Anfield or the Etihad.

And then look bewildered when the final score is 6-1 or 7-0.

Grow up
 
kaku06 said:
No standards whatsoever amongst the board, owners, players, staff and the fanbase. Look at the responses today on this forum for such a historic humiliation passed off as “bad day at the office.” “It’s just 3 points”
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure Erik ten Hag demands high standards of his players, or are you seriously questioning that?
 
Not a possession team. Usually hard to destroy a team that is well-drilled and comfortable on the ball.
Down to both the manager(s) and players.

ETH's attacking strategy is pressing. More than player creativity, chances come from direct passing and running after winning the ball high up. Before him, it was Ole's counter-attacking. Neither one prioritises possession. Both play a 4-2-3-1, with 4 forwards.

About the players - I don't know if Fred or Bruno have ever played well in possession teams, they don't seem to have those skills. Casemiro's Real was a balanced team with some spells of possession and a lot of counters, so maybe he can work in a passing midfield (though not today's version).
Weghorst as the 10 is the symbol of the style and personnel - he's beyond hopeless on the ball, his purpose is to disrupt and press.
Maybe with Martial as the 9 doing actual hold-up play, Rashford on the left to keep TAA back, maybe even Eriksen, weak as he is, it would have been better. But fundamentally the midfield, and so the whole team, isn't set up to dominate the ball.

When the midfield strategy is to fight and scrap rather than keep the ball, and you lose the fight, this is what happens.

Possession teams can get blitzed too. It happened to LvG in his second season - 0-3 vs Arsenal and some other bad ones against smaller teams. Scorelines weren't this bad because they could hold the ball.
 
Not sure what you are talking about, but after years of training I am quite immune to our heavy defeats.
 
Unless i'm missing any European or cup games, this is the 9th time in two seasons that a team has put four or more past us and won the game(6 occasions last season, 3 this season). There were a few hammerings the year before that with Spurs 6-1 and Liverpool 4-2 but they didn't begin to feel normal until last season so i'm not sure you should count them.

At any rate it still is a bit concerning even though ten Hag has improved the mentality a lot. We've always had some big defeats occasionally but they were often limited to one or two per season. It's also seriously fecking up our goal difference which was slowly improving well before today.
 
KikiDaKats said:
Our lack of control with possession leaves us vulnerable against any half decent team. We need a CM capable of retaining possession under pressure.
Click to expand...
Bruno is immensely culpable for how poor we are in possession.
 
Because apart from the odd good player we signed in the summer the rest are still the same old shite from seasons past - one blow away from revealing themselves as the mentally fragile and weak players that we’ve known them to be for seasons.

The mentality and the attitude still needs changing massively - riding the wave of positive results recently has papered over the cracks of what ETH still needs to do to this club, it’s all trickled down from the owners to the players over the years of not giving a shit. We can start with new owners this summer and some new players, with deadwood gone - that will help massively
 
There is no general trend, each game has its own reasons. Why we got battered at the beginning of the season has nothing to do with why it happened today

Today it was - over-exhaustion of players + Erik did unusually bar job of managing the match with late and odd substitutions. And to be fair, Liverpool had an unusually great day but given how tired our players' legs are, we would probably have lost anyway. It shouldn't have been a battering if Erik had done his usual skilful strategizing. I guess he is also allowed to have an off day

It's ok. It happnes. Just hurts a lot that it happened at fecking Anfield

As long as we get top 4 (and we already got a trophy) and Glazers feck off; it will still be a wonderful season and EtH is still a genius, despite one horrible game
 
NewGlory said:
There is no general trend, each game has its own reasons. Why we got battered at the beginning of the season has nothing to do with why it happened today

Today it was - over-exhaustion of players + Erik did unusually bar job of managing the match with late and odd substitutions. And to be fair, Liverpool had an unusually great day but given how tired our players' legs are, we would probably have lost anyway. It shouldn't have been a battering if Erik had done his usual skilful strategizing. I guess he is also allowed to have an off day

It's ok. It happnes. Just hurts a lot that it happened at fecking Anfield

As long as we get top 4 (and we already got a trophy) and Glazers feck off; it will still be a wonderful season and EtH is still a genius, despite one horrible game
Click to expand...
It has nothing to do with fatigue. We coped perfectly well in the first half. It's totally about mentality, as soon as we conceded the second goal we were shaken, the third came really fast and by then it seemed all the players gave up.
 
The big games we can wilt and get hassled easily due to what I'd call some players that are just not good enough in possession.

We have many new players but the thrashings continue, we still rely on a poor core. Shaw, a rollercoaster player, remember last season Shaw had a comedy show in the 5-0, Maguire got sucked in and left huge spaces behind. No Maguire today but we had McTom jogging back like he's at the seaside in the 5-0 defeat last season and no help today. We rely on Fred and McTom Shaw De Gea types. Put in a very naïve setup by the manager and the tonking looks feasible.

Without Case we're horrid, lets not forget Eriksen. Case was limping today so we had Fred and Weghorst as a midfield, back to the bad old days of the last 4-5 years of poor quality Fred McTom Fellaini Weghorst, a poor Dalot in place of an in form AWB and Shaw with his predictable lobotomny performance. We drastically needed a rejigged midfield once Case was suffering.

Ultimately it's been a theme of poor players in flawed squads not capable of controlling games against good opposition, we play counter for years now and can't hold off the press with tidy passes and control. We still have a death of a midfield in McTom Fred, Weghorst for christ sake.

An injury to Case and it's back to the guys that have failed us time and again. De Gea as good as he is shot stopping doesn't command his area and probably invites this pressure. LVG brought this up. De Gea is good up to a point.

In our win at OT we had 29% possession. It's not sustainable to keep going like that. Despite some claims of a good first half today, were again under huge pressure from kickoff, only Pools wild passes and shooting in the first half made it seem ok with our tame but on target efforts. With a bit of composure Pool could've had 4 in the first half, they we're smashing balls into the stands at close range.
 
It's strange because this is something that transcends managers. It happened under Ole and ETH, may have happened under Rangnick (His entire tenure was a blur)

Just seems to be something we're prone to. By and large you don't see the other big clubs getting battered as much as we have, even when they've been crap
 
The difference between a four- or even a five-goal battering and a SEVEN goal one, and to compound misery against our biggest rival, is significant. Remarkable progress has been made but I'm afraid this is uncharted territory.
 
kaku06 said:
No standards whatsoever amongst the board, owners, players, staff and the fanbase. Look at the responses today on this forum for such a historic humiliation passed off as “bad day at the office.” “It’s just 3 points”
Click to expand...

Ultimately this is what will always hold us back. The most successful club in England has the fanbase of Stoke City.

There's a reason Real Madrid are successful decade after decade, regime after regime. The culture of the club and the standards the fan expect are what propel them to be so great. Our fans are pathetic in comparison.

We'll always be like this unless we get a dictator like owner who doesn't give half a shit about the fans, and sets the standard himself.
 
Cloud7 said:
It's strange because this is something that transcends managers. It happened under Ole and ETH, may have happened under Rangnick (His entire tenure was a blur)

Just seems to be something we're prone to. By and large you don't see the other big clubs getting battered as much as we have, even when they've been crap
Click to expand...

I said in the locked threat, that Ole unlocked this Pandora's box. I don't know how you can reverse it now.
 
Skills said:
I said in the locked threat, that Ole unlocked this Pandora's box. I don't know how you can reverse it now.
Click to expand...

Erm, I'm old enough to remember getting beaten 5-0 and 6-3 by Newcastle and Southampton respectively in consecutive games. It happens. Ole's time as manager was an absolute car crash but it's a bit unfair to single him out for this.

What is indeed a major concern is the sheer size of the mental block our current set of players has when it comes to Liverpool.
 
Kopral Jono said:
Erm, I'm old enough to remember getting beaten 5-0 and 6-3 by Newcastle and Southampton respectively in consecutive games. It happens. Ole's time as manager was an absolute car crash but it's a bit unfair to single him out for this.

What is indeed a major concern is the sheer size of the mental block our current set of players has when it comes to Liverpool.
Click to expand...

That the club bounced back from. We got battered game after game under Ole until he was finally sacked.
 
Skills said:
Ultimately this is what will always hold us back. The most successful club in England has the fanbase of Stoke City.

There's a reason Real Madrid are successful decade after decade, regime after regime. The culture of the club and the standards the fan expect are what propel them to be so great. Our fans are pathetic in comparison.

We'll always be like this unless we get a dictator like owner who doesn't give half a shit about the fans, and sets the standard himself.
Click to expand...

We have a weird inferiority complex honestly.

I actually think a owner coming in causing a cultural reset would be huge.
 
FootballHQ said:
Been some conceding on the road this season for you guys.

Apocalypse today.

6 at Emptihad.

4 at Brentford

3 at Villa Park and Emirates.

Not challenging for title anytime soon if you're conceding 30 goals in away fixtures over a season. Arsenal have conceded 9 away goals albeit they still have to visit Liverpool and Man. City.
Click to expand...

Now that's a valid way of looking at it instead of freaking out over a freak result. Even if we take away the CIty and Brentford games, clearly we have issues with our defense in away games. Conceded 2 to Fulham too.

Remains to be seen what he does to mitigate this against Brighton/Newcastle/Spurs away remaining this season.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Ah yeah. Same. And I would feel less shite if we’d “only” lost three nil. What pisses me off the most about shipping so many goals is what that might do for Liverpool. That’s the real killer. I still don’t ever want to see us quit at 3 nil down though.
Click to expand...

I actually thought we quit today. Players stopped tracking back, helping out the defense. Essentially left the defenders on their own.
 
Skills said:
That the club bounced back from. We got battered game after game under Ole until he was finally sacked.
Click to expand...

Getting battered game after game until the Watford final straw was an Ole thing, absolutely, but the trend of being on the receiving end of batterings cannot be blamed on a single person. It's a collective mentality thing this group of players has in their DNA for whatever reason, especially when Liverpool enter the equation.
 
I think its pretty simple, besides Casemiro we dont have anyone who can slow a game down and hold the spine of the team when a score is starting to blowout.

If its 4-0, you need 4-5 players who have the experience and mentality to get on the ball and see a game out, whether its through time wasting, a load of tactical fouls, and just getting everyone behind the ball.
 
Getting battered is usually due to lack of fight/mentality rather than ability.

I agree when it comes to Liverpool we have a mental block. Which is probably why SAF said we will knock them off their fecking perch.

He understood that when it came to a benchmark of progress in developing the mentality of champions, beating your biggest rivals was it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.