Why do we get battered so often?

Simple for me. For one, were still fragile deep down. Two, we don't play with great control over even easy games, so when the going gets tough we are unable to just keep the ball for a bit and kill the opposition's momentum. Instead we drop to pieces, give the ball away easily and encourage them (see today).

We've a long way to go still. Hopefully Erik can sort these things, otherwise we'll never be considered as one of the best teams.
 
Josep Dowling said:
And what about the domestic cups so far?
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all but one opponent in the FA cup has been an EPL team.
We beat a team who was in the top 4 for the EL cup. We won 3-0 away in the semi final against an EPL side who has a fantastic home record which saw Chelsea, Liverpool and City drop points there.
I see many other teams going out against so called easy teams as well by the way.
It’s only easy because we make it look easy. That’s why we’re a comfortable third in the league so it’s not like we need easy draws to get through.
it’s just knee jerk nonsense
 
cyberman said:
all but one opponent in the FA cup has been an EPL team.
We beat a team who was in the top 4 for the EL cup. We won 3-0 away in the semi final against an EPL side who has a fantastic home record which saw Chelsea, Liverpool and City drop points there.
I see many other teams going out against so called easy teams as well by the way.
It’s only easy because we make it look easy. That’s why we’re a comfortable third in the league so it’s not like we need easy draws to get through.
it’s just knee jerk nonsense
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It’s not a knee jerk reaction. So far we have had home draws against mid-table Premier League teams or lower. That’s a fact and more of a reason why we won the League Cup. We have a good chance of making the final of the FA cup if we avoid City but I would expect City to beat us.

Our Europa League group was also very favourable and we couldn’t win the group. That led to a difficult draw against Barcelona which could have been easily avoided had we won the group.
 
Josep Dowling said:
It’s not a knee jerk reaction. So far we have had home draws against mid-table Premier League teams or lower. That’s a fact and more of a reason why we won the League Cup. We have a good chance of making the final of the FA cup if we avoid City but I would expect City to beat us.

Our Europa League draw was also very favourable and we couldn’t win the group. That led to a difficult draw against Barcelona which could have been easily avoided had we won the group.
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You say or lower as if that isn’t just one competition? It doesn’t make any sense. City went out to Southampton, was that easy? Was beating a top 4 side days after a draining win v the best side in Spain easy?
Again all but one FA cup opponent is who we’ve drawn so far in a competition that has many, many lower league sides we could face. I’d say our run has been second hardest only to City in the teams remaining. That’s not easy.
I tell you what, I will take back my knee jerk point if you can show me some posts prior to today that you made rubbishing out cup run.
 
We do get thrashed a lot, too much to just dismiss it.
 
I think because we dished it out to everyone and anyone for so long, other teams take extra satisfaction absolutely stuffing us. Teams can taste the blood in the water, and we're still mentally a bit questionable.
 
cyberman said:
You say or lower as if that isn’t just one competition? It doesn’t make any sense. City went out to Southampton, was that easy? Was beating a top 4 side days after a draining win v the best side in Spain easy?
Again all but one FA cup opponent is who we’ve drawn so far in a competition that has many, many lower league sides we could face. I’d say our run has been second hardest only to City in the teams remaining. That’s not easy.
I tell you what, I will take back my knee jerk point if you can show me some posts prior to today that you made rubbishing out cup run.
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You have to take the league cup win for what it was: a welcome trophy but a small one; a step forward but not an indication of ability to compete at the top.

Today was our joint worst result ever. We are a team who can win games, win a little trophy, and then lose very badly indeed.
 
OrcaFat said:
You have to take the league cup win for what it was: a welcome trophy but a small one; a step forward but not an indication of ability to compete at the top.

Today was our joint worst result ever. We are a team who can win games, win a little trophy, and then lose very badly indeed.
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But nobody was claiming otherwise? In fact fans were looking forward as soon as we won it.
There’s no need to pretend we all thought winning a cup had shown we were back at the top as a club. It’s the people going the other way that’s downplaying what we’ve done so far which is ridiculous.
 
I remember Rio saying whether that was looking the case when he read posting there was always syndrome that would get them together and go right no more goals that's enough now.

We don't seem to have anyone does that now our heads just go down and accept how many goals the opposition can rattle up
 
Why is the answer always teams raise our game against us rather than we were shit/mentally weak?
 
We're still a weak team mentally and it can't be fixed in a season.
 
Jeppers7 said:
I might be wrong but I don’t think there will be many more results like this, even this was a freak in terms of the performance up until about the hour mark then it was attitude of players. ETH will root that out. He will also be more capable of fully implementing his philosophy once he has the full array of tools for the job.
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I bloody hope so!!
 
cyberman said:
But nobody was claiming otherwise? In fact fans were looking forward as soon as we won it.
There’s no need to pretend we all thought winning a cup had shown we were back at the top as a club. It’s the people going the other way that’s downplaying what we’ve done so far which is ridiculous.
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Yeah. I think some people were surprised that we got smashed today based on our recent results and cup victory.

Possibly it makes sense to look at our fixtures and performances this season and consider that we have more weaknesses than our collective recent mood (and “press”) would suggest.

We are still a team that gets drubbed sometimes. And we should not be drubbed ever imo.
 
Because we dont know what to do when we go 0-3 down.

Other teams shut-up shop and take their medicine. We continue to try to play football but with absolutely no convinction or confidence, against opponents who have their tails up.
 
Fragile crybaby players, a chaotic overrated goalkeeper involved in every battering and a complete lack of ability to hold possession under any pressure.
 
Van Piorsing said:
This team tends to miss always something along the line. Patch one thing and two other departments starts leaking.
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It's because the engine has been faulty for years now and we keep applying bandaids everywhere else.

Casemiro is a step in the right direction but our midfield needs more work. As long as we're shit at retaining the ball under pressure, as long as we always have to concede the majority of the possession in big games we'll have a ceiling.
 
Josep Dowling said:
It’s not a knee jerk reaction. So far we have had home draws against mid-table Premier League teams or lower. That’s a fact and more of a reason why we won the League Cup. We have a good chance of making the final of the FA cup if we avoid City but I would expect City to beat us.

Our Europa League group was also very favourable and we couldn’t win the group. That led to a difficult draw against Barcelona which could have been easily avoided had we won the group.
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So the manager is bad then? Who should we replace him with?
 
Against rivals, we almost always don’t keep our heads. 3 goal down and we go all gung ho to show our “passion”. It’s a good sign of how much the players care but losing the heads is not the way.
 
RedOrange said:
So the manager is bad then? Who should we replace him with?
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I haven’t said that. We could end up winning two domestic trophies off the back of easy draws, something Ole didn’t get when he was at the club. Let’s put it this way if we drew Arsenal, Liverpool or City in the League or FA cup, lost, and be where we are in the league would United fans be as positive? Lost 6-3 to City, 7-0 to Liverpool, 4-0 to Brentford. It’s just a point to consider.
 
Quite a few of these players have weak mentality, and it can't be fixed. The likes of Shaw and Bruno have put in these performances so many times for us.

There's also something ingrained in the culture of the club to just keep fighting and going for it, even when we're well beaten and we should shut up shop. Even Fergie was guilty of it, that 6-1 against City was never a 6-1 game, but we decided to go all out for it, and ended up with that scoreline. It's not a terrible trait in theory, but it does lead to some woeful scorelines.
 
Lentwood said:
Because we dont know what to do when we go 0-3 down.

Other teams shut-up shop and take their medicine. We continue to try to play football but with absolutely no convinction or confidence, against opponents who have their tails up.
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If the manager does this we get a different set of posters complaining about how the cowardly manager gave up on the match.

I know goal differential is somewhat important for tiebreaking but if mentality and momentum are also important then turtling around the box and hoping not to be embarrassed isn't really that useful. Obviously if there are players who check out mentally after going 2 or 3 goals down that should be addressed, trying to mitigate the embarassment doesn't really benefit anyone besides people who think online banter is very important.
 
I remember the good old days when we thought a 4-1 loss to Liverpool at home in a year we won the league was an awful result.

Now we are losing to them by 5-0 and 7-0 in two seasons back to back.
 
RedOrange said:
If the manager does this we get a different set of posters complaining about how the cowardly manager gave up on the match.

I know goal differential is somewhat important for tiebreaking but if mentality and momentum are also important then turtling around the box and hoping not to be embarrassed isn't really that useful. Obviously if there are players who check out mentally after going 2 or 3 goals down that should be addressed, trying to mitigate the embarassment doesn't really benefit anyone besides people who think online banter is very important.
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I see this argument but at the same time, getting tanked 0-7 does nobody any good. Realistically, when you're 0-3 down at Anfield after an hour, the game is over. Make some changes, get 10-men behind the ball and defend. If you can snatch a goal from a set-piece or a counter-attack then who knows, might still be something in the game. What you can't do is just become ragged and have no plan.
 
We’ll learn eventually you need a good midfield to compete in these big games. Not happened yet though.
 
Lentwood said:
I see this argument but at the same time, getting tanked 0-7 does nobody any good. Realistically, when you're 0-3 down at Anfield after an hour, the game is over. Make some changes, get 10-men behind the ball and defend. If you can snatch a goal from a set-piece or a counter-attack then who knows, might still be something in the game. What you can't do is just become ragged and have no plan.
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Nah, that’s bollox. Even 3 nil down we should still be looking to score and get back into the game. It would be an absolute dereliction of duty to give up at that point.

Plus I don’t think any of the goals we conceded came from us committing too many men forward and getting caught on the break.
 
Idxomer said:
Because we still think a midfield 2 can work in modern football with players who are weak on the ball.
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Well said. Same reason why my team got repeatedly destroyed by Liverpool in the Champions League
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Nah, that’s bollox. Even 3 nil down we should still be looking to score and get back into the game. It would be an absolute dereliction of duty to give up at that point.
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Only thing is though, that kind of thinking once cost us a league title. Even Ferguson was furious with the players for not shoring up and just taking the licks.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Nah, that’s bollox. Even 3 nil down we should still be looking to score and get back into the game. It would be an absolute dereliction of duty to give up at that point.

Plus I don’t think any of the goals we conceded came from us committing too many men forward and getting caught on the break.
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It would be, I'm old enough to remember being 3-0 down at Spurs and winning, I'm also old enough to remember being 3-0 up at Anfield and not winning!
 
Pogue Mahone said:
It also won us league titles. Remember the 5-3 win against Spurs, after going 3 down? Just as well we didn’t shut up shop and accept defeat in that match…
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That was at home (I was actually at that game!) and it didn't have quite the same impact the City result did.

Today was Anfield and also a very different United side, but if you're content we still did the right thing after a 7-0 pumping, that's cool.
 
Loon said:
That was at home (I was actually at that game!) and it didn't have quite the same impact the City result did.

Today was Anfield and also a very different United side, but if you're content we still did the right thing after a 7-0 pumping, that's cool.
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Yup. I am indeed content that we didn’t give up after going 3-0 down. I never want to see us do that. I also think the late goals we scored from not giving up against City when we were 4-0 down earlier this season helped set us up for the next game. Hence I’m content we didn’t quit in that match either.
 
Zen said:
Because we're still everyones biggest rival.... and not overly talented. Simple.
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This.

Though we are actually a half decent team now and certainly better than fecking Liverpool.

We've still got a soft underbelly and we lack a proper threat in front of goal. Stop Rashford running in behind and you stop us scoring. It will take more than half a season to correct.
 
With Dalot, Casemiro, Fred, Weghorst and Bruno you are asking for trouble because they give the ball away so much.
 
Siorac said:
It's because the engine has been faulty for years now and we keep applying bandaids everywhere else.

Casemiro is a step in the right direction but our midfield needs more work. As long as we're shit at retaining the ball under pressure, as long as we always have to concede the majority of the possession in big games we'll have a ceiling.
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This ceiling really need to gain some height or it's all for nothing. Team with ambition to be Champions League force again, sooner or later must get serious about it.

Quite telling when lad like Sabitzer who missed a lot of minutes in Bundesliga already looking more ready and more vital option than almost majority of our squad.
 
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