Yeah, because you can find another Fergie just about anywhere, and football in 2021 is exactly the same as 1991
Why are United fans so oblivious to importance of good managers?
- Thread starter MuFc_1992
- Start date
Out of curiosity how do you think Fergie got the job? He wasn't the first manager.
It's not that different, underperforming managers were sacked as regularly. Why do people think that it's a new thing?
Iirc the thread was closed after 3 or 4 good games when people started calling out the Ole doubters with all sorts of names but thankfully a lot of those posters now arent with us.Then of course shortly after it was closed we went on another bad run and it hasn't been addressed since.
The problem is you can never build long term success, especially in a league with many good clubs. You need to build up your team and backroom staff in order to deliver continuous success. This is what United have done in the past and I'm getting a bit annoyed at people who want us to just be some soulless entity. It's not a defence of Solksjaer, it's more of a culture that some United fans want us to develop of being like Chelsea.
It won't be long before we're sacking off kids too and we end our record of always having talent from the academy in our first team. Maybe we can also move out of Manchester so we attract more top talent as well.
change 3 years to 3 months for the next manager. Ole's had time but the next manager will have even less to do something and the manager after that. I guess we can roll the dice until we get lucky.
I hate when people say I don’t want us turning into Chelsea because we need a new manager. Literally every top club sacks a manager and hires a new one if they’re not up to the job, it’s not Chelsea specific. Bayern, Madrid, Barca, Liverpool etc. All big clubs with tradition don’t hesitate to pull the trigger when required, we shouldn’t be any different.
But it hasn't. All of our managers sans Moyes has been given ample time, in fact we've kept Ole longer despite worse results than Mourinho and LVG. So your "slippery slope" argument doesn't even work. Most top clubs sack a manager after one bad season, we've given in 2 complete seasons + this one and the play has just gotten more inconsistent and the issues haven't been fixed at all.
Not this nonsense again.
The usual sign a manager is doomed is when they've just signed a long extension!
Happened with Jose, and just happened with Ole.
he has this season irrespective of what happens.
Happened with Jose, and just happened with Ole.
he has this season irrespective of what happens.
Let's be perfectly clear. United failed to have regular success outside of Sir Matt Busby and Sir Alex Ferguson both happen to be two of the very best managers in Football history. United as a club has never built long term success, in fact United as a club has chronically failed to even build moderate success without these two great managers, one of the reason is that United instead of doing what every other big club has done which is not rely on managers but rely on technical directors that would build the club and maintain its culture while the head coach simply coaches the team that he is given.
And we should stop with this nonsense about soulless entity, there is nothing soulfull about doing a frankly moronic thing like relying on a single person for the culture and success of a club or any entity. It's also an insult to all the people that work, have worked, play and have played for United. United has historically picked the most volatile option, the one that create the weakest foundation, the weakest club culture and wannabe Top Reds actually cheer for it.
It's all ego, a lot of the fans and those associated with the club believe we are above all other fans and clubs because we romantically try to stick to the "united way" and then there is the Ronaldo case where we took him back purely because how dare such a legend possibly move to our supposed noisy neighbours who have surpassed us on the football field and running of the a club on the football side of things.
Overall yes, I was speaking more about us in particular. United of 1991 was a cup team whose last league title win came 2 decades prior, in a league with similar level of spending across the board, with no culture and expectation of winning. United of 2021 is a juggernaut whose financial health relies heavily on successes on the pitch, in competition with mega money from states and oligarchs, and with a culture and expectation of winning built on 2 decades of domestic dominance. The situations, pressure, circumstances are vastly different to the point you can't just give a coach who have been in the business for more than 10 years with only a couple of Norwegian titles to his name the same latitude you once did a winner of the Scottish league, a respectable top level league back then, who also won the CWC against Madrid, but I'm sure you know all this.
Demanding excellence from the team isnt 'want us to just be some soulless entity'. Would you call Bayern Munich soulless? Barcelona soulless? Juventus soulless? Real Madrid soulless? Do you expect any of them to tolerate 'one of their own' the way we did Solskjaer these past 3 years?
Continuous success doesnt magically appear by tolerating mediocrity sentimentally for a few years. Continuous success is built by actually succeeding and never letting up, constantly striving to better yourself in all aspects of the club, from the facilities to the support staff to the youth set up to the first team. The plain and simple truth is way too many supporters of this club have gotten used to excusing its failings in the name of tradition.
Thank you
I support the club, not any one person who happens to have a job there at a given point of time.
Hope this helps.
Ok then let's go the Chelsea route. They're a superior club to us.
Everyone who agrees with the premise of the thread is a wanker
The problem is, most Utd fans supported when they were winning(glory hunters) now because they are not the force they were once was, it’s hurting them.
Why do you call it the Chelsea route? 99% of clubs follow the same logic and have done it since the beginning of time, United has followed the same logic outside of SAF and Sir Matt Busby, if you don't perform you will lose your job.
That's a perfectly level headed response...
Chelsea should have brought this up with Lampard, won't have won the CL then.
Yes another Chelsea comparison.
There is no United way, it was a mixture of fergie time and other teams were crap. Now you have Leicester, West Ham and other teams who now can compete. Back then in 2000s you only had Man Utd and Arsenal. Then you had Chelsea with their money and now Man City, even Liverpool are in the midst.
It's always Chelsea that get brought up because they are an easy target, but the same insult of plasticity/soullessness is never levelled at Italian clubs, curiously, even though they have all been at one point or another been heavily bankrolled just like Chelsea did.
If Liverpool were to apply Gerrard as Kloops successor we would all be laughing and cheering yet his credentials as a manager are far better than those of OGS when he took over at United. I simply cannot see why being a club legend can justify a fast track to managing a big club like United. My guess is that for every Guardiola there is at least ten Pirlo, Lampard, OGS, etc who wasn’t ready or just didn’t have the talent to be a world class coach.
Three actually, our first two league titles were won when Ernest Mangnall was manager. But, I agree with your point, only three out of our 20 odd managers have won the league. So, a top quality manager is essential. Longevity doesn't guarantee success, quality does, and of course it makes sense to retain quality for a long time, as happened with Sir Matt Busby and Sir Alex Ferguson.
great post, level headed and lacking histrionics, unlike 90% of redcafe posts.
Anyone who disagrees with the premise of this thread is a wanker.
Kind of ironic some people saying we are too loyal to managers.
Alex Ferguson hand-picked a successor and asked the fans to back him during his final speech.
"I would like to remind you this club stood by me in bad times, the players and the staff," he said. "Your job now is to stand by the new manager."
We hounded said replacement out of the door before a year had even passed.
We had a perfect guy in the mould of Busby and Ferguson, and we chucked him overboard at the first sign of trouble. Ferguson would have been jettisoned too under the modern fanbase. It takes time to for a manager to impliment ideas. Klopp and Pep were wise to give the role a wide berth.
Alex Ferguson hand-picked a successor and asked the fans to back him during his final speech.
"I would like to remind you this club stood by me in bad times, the players and the staff," he said. "Your job now is to stand by the new manager."
We hounded said replacement out of the door before a year had even passed.
We had a perfect guy in the mould of Busby and Ferguson, and we chucked him overboard at the first sign of trouble. Ferguson would have been jettisoned too under the modern fanbase. It takes time to for a manager to impliment ideas. Klopp and Pep were wise to give the role a wide berth.
Honestly all these top reds deserve this board and Woodward. Since when we have developed this loser mentality amongst so many of our fans where they think being blindly loyal to the unproven tactically clueless manager is somehow better than being competent ? If anything our fanbase should find it humiliating just how much standards have dropped but now they should be more thirsty for success than ever before with this squad after years in doldrums.
It find it so odd why people would put their own ego and their affinity for manager before their own club they claim to love so much ? This is Manchester United, our club our life, it comes before anything and everything. Does it not pain you after performances like villa and today and many more that we could be so much better with this world class squad ? Or your ego and blind loyalty mean so much more to you than your pain and love for your club ? Because you can’t tell me with a straight face that we are winning things under ole.
How the hell a fanbase who knew nothing but success for decades just meekly accepts this incompetence about something which is an integral and inseparable part of your lives especially when we are ready to launch again? Atleast you can be honest and swallow your pride and accept the reality that we are going nowhere with this manager and these coaches and it hurts.
It find it so odd why people would put their own ego and their affinity for manager before their own club they claim to love so much ? This is Manchester United, our club our life, it comes before anything and everything. Does it not pain you after performances like villa and today and many more that we could be so much better with this world class squad ? Or your ego and blind loyalty mean so much more to you than your pain and love for your club ? Because you can’t tell me with a straight face that we are winning things under ole.
How the hell a fanbase who knew nothing but success for decades just meekly accepts this incompetence about something which is an integral and inseparable part of your lives especially when we are ready to launch again? Atleast you can be honest and swallow your pride and accept the reality that we are going nowhere with this manager and these coaches and it hurts.
Pep and Klopp have only won one CL title in the last five or so years so how are the rest of the clubs who don't have them that have shared the four out of five CL titles managing? I think it's pedestrian, cowardly and unimaginative to think that a team can only succeed when managed by a Pep or a Klopp. This is basically what you are saying.
A better manager/coach than Ole who can extract that extra bit will do wonders for the team. It's not like the rest of Europe are stuck in a Pep/Klopp or bust situation that you present. It's basically another excuse for doing nothing because the club is too scared to act on a legend and its too traumatized by previous failures.
So what your saying is that if we are unhappy with our current management as fans then we should F off as we aren't true fans or whatever, regardless of our performances as a team oweing to management?
They say to attack the post and not the poster so: This post is an idiot!
Ferguson made some mistakes (not very much), and Moyes surely was one. He simply did not have and develop the necessary mentality to manage an elite club. I still can't stop laughing when I see him celebrating that legendary draw against Fulham...
It's scary that you think that in this era where there are three or four teams that can spend hundreds of millions of pounds that you can build for long term success of the Fergie years. Teams can outspend us, they can compete with us for the best players and they have better managers.
And managerial competence is not like a wine which you can put in some barrel, lock it away and come back after 25 years to drink a critically acclaimed wine, either a manager has it or he doesn't. If he doesn't have the minerals, as seen by some of his bizzare in game management or stagnating like we are doing now giving him more time will only do more damage to the club.
Whether we have reached a point where a decision has to be made is up for debate but putting our heads in the sand because we once gave Fergie, a one off managerial great, time to build is pure incompetence. Let's not lie to ourselves, giving Fergie time wasnt the only factor that led to our domination.
Exactly.
United fans want to think we're special, and we are in a way. But there's special and there's 'special'.
4 years without a trophy under this manager. Four! You are having a laugh. No matter how much reset you have to do, It doesn't need to take four years to win a spoon and we talk about the bare minimum, a style of play which previous managers couldn't even get away with. Those feckers at the top knew exactly how to keep the fans shut when they hired Ole. United is a sentimental club and we were sure going to protect one of our own when shit hits the fan and that's exactly what we're doing. Ole's a legend and all, he's turned things around and all. What a shame!
Not sure how you stretched to all that from my post.
The Glazers/Woodward make a lot of bad decisions but what you are saying is that they would rather throw millions away on Ole and the players he wants rather than getting this (un named) manager in who would magically turn what we have into gold.
They'll have access to the best analysts and advisors in football, if there was a sure thing they'd do it. In reality there is just a merry go round of managers like Ancelotti not making that much difference despite their reputations because of past glories.
Not only 4 years without a trophy but it's not like a Klopp/Pep situation where the wait will be worth it and we'll receive the fruits of our labor. We are trophyless while playing miserable football for the most part. There's literally no plus side to it and no apparent light at the end of the tunnel.
I'm fed up of us making average teams look like prime Barca,
I'm fed up of 25 different ole threads,
I'm fed up with an inquiry after every match whether ole is good enough,
I'm fed up of the term "top red",whatever the feck that is,
I'm fed up with ole smiling after another crap performance,
I'm fed up with excuses,
Basically I'm fed up.
I'm fed up of 25 different ole threads,
I'm fed up with an inquiry after every match whether ole is good enough,
I'm fed up of the term "top red",whatever the feck that is,
I'm fed up with ole smiling after another crap performance,
I'm fed up with excuses,
Basically I'm fed up.