Whilst I don't want this debate to turn into who was better, Zidane or Messi, as the OP I think I have the right to point out that suggesting Zidane is/was better than Messi is one of the most ridiculous things I've seen written on this forum. Does that fact that probably 99% of the footballing community not agree with you not lead you to reflect that perhaps you're wrong on this one?
Whose career would you rather have had? Messi or Zidane
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Whilst I don't want this debate to turn into who was better, Zidane or Messi, as the OP I think I have the right to point out that suggesting Zidane is/was better than Messi is one of the most ridiculous things I've seen written on this forum. Does that fact that probably 99% of the footballing community not agree with you not lead you to reflect that perhaps you're wrong on this one?
Nah, Messi is the best player you've seen.
O’Shea
It's his view and opinion, you cannot tell him otherwise however strongly you disagree with him. He is talking for himself there.
i know stats aren't everything, but Zidane scored 125 goals in his club career. Messi has scored over 600.
600.
Messi also has way more assists too.
there is no argument whatsoever to suggest Zidane is a better player than Messi. it's just nonsense.
career? well, maybe. but even that is kinda absurd.
600.
Messi also has way more assists too.
there is no argument whatsoever to suggest Zidane is a better player than Messi. it's just nonsense.
career? well, maybe. but even that is kinda absurd.
Everyone can have an opinion, it doesn't make it valid or correct however. Some things are purely subjective, however some things are objective, and Messi is objectively better at football than Zidane. If I were to suggest Luke Chadwick was a better player then Messi I'm sure you'd tell me I was wrong soon enough.
What's ridiculous is saying someone else's personal opinion on what's the best footy player they've seen is one of the most ridiculous things you've seen written on this forum.
Luke Chadwick and Zidane in the same sentence. Alright then.
Pele agrees with him though. *ducksandhides*
I would simply and completely disagree with you and leave it at that. If that is truly what you'd believe, I'd be fine with it.
Semantics I know
Just a tiny bit of a differenceSo you agree, you can claim someone's personal opinion is objectively wrong, otherwise there would be no reason for you to question Luke Chadwick and Zidane being discussed together.
Zidane for me. Messi maybe more gifted than Zidane but Zidane is more complete. He was technically good, leader and was very influential for his country and club.
I guess we are debating just for the sake of debating right? I mean, just find one or good decent arguments and stick by them, and be the cool kid that argues against the obvious correct answer?
How in the hell can anybody say Zidane has had a better football career than Messi, thats just ridiculous. If you weigh national competitions higher than club competitions BY THAT MUCH, then you have to stick by it and the whole list of top 50 players of all time changes drastically just to fit those who have world cup medals.
Pele #1 and would never be topped
Xavi, Iniesta, Villa, Torres etc, all part of that 3 peat of national cups, with a few CLs and La Ligas to their name, HAVE to be on the top 10
Players like Messi or Cruyff will have to settle somewhere on the top 20-30
Individual awards:
Messi 10/10 career
Zidane 8/10 career
Club Career:
Messi 10/10 career
Zidane 7/10 career
Individual statistics
Messi 10/10 career
Zidane 7/10 career
National team career:
Zidane 9/10
Messi 7/10 (giving that he got to 3 finals, and is still top scorer and top assister of his country)
I mean you do the math, but thats pretty much how i see it. Of course if you think the WC is better than 10+ years absolutely dominating the world of football, then i guess we can agree to disagree.
How in the hell can anybody say Zidane has had a better football career than Messi, thats just ridiculous. If you weigh national competitions higher than club competitions BY THAT MUCH, then you have to stick by it and the whole list of top 50 players of all time changes drastically just to fit those who have world cup medals.
Pele #1 and would never be topped
Xavi, Iniesta, Villa, Torres etc, all part of that 3 peat of national cups, with a few CLs and La Ligas to their name, HAVE to be on the top 10
Players like Messi or Cruyff will have to settle somewhere on the top 20-30
Individual awards:
Messi 10/10 career
Zidane 8/10 career
Club Career:
Messi 10/10 career
Zidane 7/10 career
Individual statistics
Messi 10/10 career
Zidane 7/10 career
National team career:
Zidane 9/10
Messi 7/10 (giving that he got to 3 finals, and is still top scorer and top assister of his country)
I mean you do the math, but thats pretty much how i see it. Of course if you think the WC is better than 10+ years absolutely dominating the world of football, then i guess we can agree to disagree.
Firstly, you sound very angry in your post.
Secondly, the question was whose career would you rather have, not who’s had the best career.
Thirdly, you’re mistakenly mixing success with ability. What you happen to be lucky enough to win at international level won’t impact whether you are, as a player, good enough to make the top 50 of all time list.
I guess I am from a different era, but the World Cup is still the biggest trophy available in Football. The joy it brings a country cannot be understated. I think even Messi said he would trade all his trophies (Or something to that effect) for a World Cup trophy. Messi has arguably the best club career, even with that there is still a "but", especially since Cristainao Ronaldo won two trophies for Portugal. Zidane is still talked about as one of the best of all time and his inconsistency at club level is often glossed over because of his national team performances (perceived performances).
Sounds like you agree with pretty much everything i said then.
And im not angry at all, i just find it ridiculous that someone (obviously not you) would actually believe that Zidane has had a better football career than Messi (as there are plenty of people stating that in this thread, again not you).
3 CL wins is called dominating?
Surely you're not serious. 10 league titles and 3 champions leagues vs 3 league titles, one champions league a world cup and a European championship. Messi must really envy Zidane's intertoto cup win!
This thread is just bizarre. One has dominated European football for a decade, producing goalscoring numbers year after year never seen before. The other looks good in youtube videos to orchestra music.
3 CL wins is called dominating?
Cal, we dont do alternative facts here. Leo Messi has 4 CLs, not 3. And yes, he gas dominated European football for the last decade. You know you can have great CL campaigns without winning one right? Who was voted best midfielder in Europe last week? Wasnt it De Jong? Didnt he only get to the semis? Who won forward of the year? Didnt he get to the semis? Leo Messi is one of the 5 best European/ CL players of all time. That is without dispute.
You're going to credit him with the one he didn't even play from the QF onwards as part of dominating?
Also, I thought @POF meant he dominated for "a decade", which is debatable, but not ridiculous for 2006-2015. However, to claim he dominated for 2010-2019, is just ludicrous, he's won ONE in the last 8 seasons, not made another final, yet you think he dominated?
Xavi/Iniesta or Zidane's ? ^^
I'd prefer Zidane's career. When I retire I'd like to see a world cup and a Euro cup up there as well as league wins in Serie A and La Liga .. and of course that CL final goal and he got the Ballon D'or. It's a comprehensive clean sweep!
Messi is in my opinion the better footballer, but I'd prefer Zidane's career
Messi is in my opinion the better footballer, but I'd prefer Zidane's career
Sure, you can honestly say whatever you want and yet be factually completely wrong.
It's irrelevant how Messi will go down, this is about who's career would you rather have had, and Zidane clearly trumps Messi. He's won everything Messi has won, plus a World Cup and a Euro Cup. Messi hasn't been able to win any major trophy with Argentina.
In ten years time people will remember messi like we remember maradona and pele.
In ten years time people will remember zidane the player like we how we recall Maldini, bergkamp beckenbauer and such. Great artists but not at the levels of maradona pele messi ronaldo level. No contests.
In ten years time people will remember zidane the player like we how we recall Maldini, bergkamp beckenbauer and such. Great artists but not at the levels of maradona pele messi ronaldo level. No contests.
Zidane's career was more fun to follow, regardless of it being better or not.
Question whose career you prefer?
Answers: "Messi is better" "Zidane is better".
Shaking my head.
Answers: "Messi is better" "Zidane is better".
Shaking my head.
All I know is I was surprised Poch didn’t get the Argentina job to lead them to win the World Cup. Something told me it would click and Messi would win one.
Messi is an 8.8/9 out of 10 player without xavi and Iniesta and was a 10 out of 10 player with xavi and Iniesta.
Very lucky he got to spend the majority of his career with the Spanish world cup and European Cup winners playing 99% same Barcelona style Possesion football and you can compare that to the Argentian Zilch.
Zidane made the game tick as his tempo and his rhythm and whilst he did have other players helping him, they didnt necessarily help him with the tempo like possession football or tiki taka did, I really enjoyed watching Zidane at his peak.
Messi was more annoyingly good but again because he was the bullet of Barcelona, not the the heart and rhythm of Barcelona (although many would disagree, this was Xavi and Iniesta).
Messi had a better career but I enjoyed Zidane more.
Very lucky he got to spend the majority of his career with the Spanish world cup and European Cup winners playing 99% same Barcelona style Possesion football and you can compare that to the Argentian Zilch.
Zidane made the game tick as his tempo and his rhythm and whilst he did have other players helping him, they didnt necessarily help him with the tempo like possession football or tiki taka did, I really enjoyed watching Zidane at his peak.
Messi was more annoyingly good but again because he was the bullet of Barcelona, not the the heart and rhythm of Barcelona (although many would disagree, this was Xavi and Iniesta).
Messi had a better career but I enjoyed Zidane more.
Yeah. Probably true. But let's say you tell a little 7 year old boy 20 years from now about Messi. You tell him he was in the top 3 players of all time. You know what the kid's first question will be? 'How many World Cups did he win, old man?'
Yep, I wonder why I bother with forums sometimes....
I though this might be an interesting reflection on what motivates people/players.
Are we ignoring individual honours and achievements?
a career is not just about trophies.
what your saying is which trophy haul you would prefer?
Messi without a doubt. The future financial security of my family is important to me. (Other reasons too, but I don’t think that one has been brought up yet)
What? I mean, honestly, what on earth are you on about?! Zidane is incredibly wealthy.
I don’t think Zidane is short of money.
Regardless, who’s career would I have had? I’m pretty clear on Zidane, because of the international titles and leading his country to its first WC.
Plus he played for two of the biggest clubs in the world and won titles in Italy and Spain. I personally would have preferred that.
you have that many kids ?Exactly.
Personally I would take Zidane's career, because winning world cup with my country(India) would automatically will make a goat, and in current internet boom my country is having, i would have been getting billion dollars worth of endorsements
Some people get so weird in conversations involving Messi.
It's like all they need is the mention of his name, and they lose all objectivity and comprehension ability. It's possible to think Messi is the most gifted footballer ever to have lived, but still prefer the career of someone else. A career is about more aspects than merely talent and you don't need to be personally insulted that someone else may weigh the other criteria in a different way to yourself.
For me, I grew up idolizing Zidane. I've always loved the sexy footballer - Cantona, Baggio, Bergkamp etc. The guys who made the extraordinary look like it came natural, easy or even lazily to them and Zidane was the master of this.
He strutted about the field as if he owned it. He was too cool to care about being the best, but when he felt like it, he'd show you just because he could.
He also had a fire inside him. An edge that I've always admired in my favourite sporting heroes. He was flawed and human and when someone insulted his sister he laid him out - world cup final be damned. You can't not respect that.
He probably underachieved a little bit at club level, considering the players and clubs he played with, but he still won the lot and was the star of a squad full of big names in doing so. He scored one of the most iconic goals of all time in winning the European Cup and was rightly recognised as the greatest player on the planet.
People say the world cup is just another trophy but it's more than that. Zidane is adored and revered by his own people. He brought them the trophy that said they were the best team on the planet for the first time and will always be remembered for that. It's more than just another cup and no club competition will ever compare with that.
All this said, I can completely understand why anyone else might pick Messi's career over Zidane. My personal perception doesn't mean someone else is wrong - just that they see and value different things.
Messi will be remembered as perhaps the most gifted footballer ever to play the game. He has been the best player in probably the greatest club side ever seen and has dominated the biggest club competition there is. He's won 5 Balon D'Ors and has mesmerised us while gliding around football pitches doing what he wants, treating professional defenders with the sort of casual disdain one of us would show dribbling around 3 year olds. He was a better footballer than Zidane - no doubt about it.
But in my eyes, Messi is also a bit of a nerd. He has all the talent in the world, but he's never been a sexy footballer. He should be, because he can do the lot and it comes easier to him than anyone else there's ever been, but he isn't.
Perhaps it's because he cares too much. He's the teachers pet and all the other players in the squad have to revolve around him. Perhaps it's because he lacks the edge and fire within. Maybe I see him as a little too meek or vanilla, and wonder what would've happened had someone insulted his sister in a world cup final?
There's also the fact that almost all of his success has come from being the focal point of one of the greatest sides in history, from benefiting from being in front of (in my opinion) the greatest midfield in history. A midfield and (largely) side that has gone on to win World and European cups without him but without which he himself has achieved far less.
Or maybe it's the fact that he's only ever shown his class for one club and in one 2 club league. I'e always admired the man who takes the risk to move and prove himself all over again.
Whatever it is, those are rightly or wrongly my perceptions of Zidane, Messi and their careers. The question was which career would you prefer but I see it as which of those two men would you like to have been?
And if that's the question, there is only one answer for me. Zidane.
It's like all they need is the mention of his name, and they lose all objectivity and comprehension ability. It's possible to think Messi is the most gifted footballer ever to have lived, but still prefer the career of someone else. A career is about more aspects than merely talent and you don't need to be personally insulted that someone else may weigh the other criteria in a different way to yourself.
For me, I grew up idolizing Zidane. I've always loved the sexy footballer - Cantona, Baggio, Bergkamp etc. The guys who made the extraordinary look like it came natural, easy or even lazily to them and Zidane was the master of this.
He strutted about the field as if he owned it. He was too cool to care about being the best, but when he felt like it, he'd show you just because he could.
He also had a fire inside him. An edge that I've always admired in my favourite sporting heroes. He was flawed and human and when someone insulted his sister he laid him out - world cup final be damned. You can't not respect that.
He probably underachieved a little bit at club level, considering the players and clubs he played with, but he still won the lot and was the star of a squad full of big names in doing so. He scored one of the most iconic goals of all time in winning the European Cup and was rightly recognised as the greatest player on the planet.
People say the world cup is just another trophy but it's more than that. Zidane is adored and revered by his own people. He brought them the trophy that said they were the best team on the planet for the first time and will always be remembered for that. It's more than just another cup and no club competition will ever compare with that.
All this said, I can completely understand why anyone else might pick Messi's career over Zidane. My personal perception doesn't mean someone else is wrong - just that they see and value different things.
Messi will be remembered as perhaps the most gifted footballer ever to play the game. He has been the best player in probably the greatest club side ever seen and has dominated the biggest club competition there is. He's won 5 Balon D'Ors and has mesmerised us while gliding around football pitches doing what he wants, treating professional defenders with the sort of casual disdain one of us would show dribbling around 3 year olds. He was a better footballer than Zidane - no doubt about it.
But in my eyes, Messi is also a bit of a nerd. He has all the talent in the world, but he's never been a sexy footballer. He should be, because he can do the lot and it comes easier to him than anyone else there's ever been, but he isn't.
Perhaps it's because he cares too much. He's the teachers pet and all the other players in the squad have to revolve around him. Perhaps it's because he lacks the edge and fire within. Maybe I see him as a little too meek or vanilla, and wonder what would've happened had someone insulted his sister in a world cup final?
There's also the fact that almost all of his success has come from being the focal point of one of the greatest sides in history, from benefiting from being in front of (in my opinion) the greatest midfield in history. A midfield and (largely) side that has gone on to win World and European cups without him but without which he himself has achieved far less.
Or maybe it's the fact that he's only ever shown his class for one club and in one 2 club league. I'e always admired the man who takes the risk to move and prove himself all over again.
Whatever it is, those are rightly or wrongly my perceptions of Zidane, Messi and their careers. The question was which career would you prefer but I see it as which of those two men would you like to have been?
And if that's the question, there is only one answer for me. Zidane.
It's one thing to say you'd prefer Zidane's career over Messi's (everyone has their tastes).
But to say with a straight face that Zidane is better than Messi?
But to say with a straight face that Zidane is better than Messi?
Messi is a billionaire though. So yeah money wise, Messi is better choice.
And I'd like someone to define "sexy footballer" rigorously
Just the idea of doing so is deeply unsexy.
The sexy footballer is not broken down into stats and attributes. He is appreciated like a fine wine or piece of art. He is the way you felt watching him play.