Whose career would you rather have had? Messi or Zidane

[BlackShark_80]

Football is team game, player's level shouldn't be dependent on his teammates stepping up and finishing off chances. And also 1 game shouldn't decide whether player is GOAT or not.

Anyways that's for another thread, he is GOAT for me and will always be. I'm sure I won't see a better player in my lifetime.

Football is team game indeed, but to be called as the greatest footballer ever he need to performed the highest level not only at Club but also at NT and not dependent on his teammates stepping up too. Messi at least failed to do this at NT and that's why he is only GOAT at club level for me.

 

[Scotty McT]

Can't be greatest footballer of all time if he is only GOAT at Club level.

So a footballer from some micronation can't possibly be the best footballer in the world, no matter how good at football he becomes, because the rest of his teammates are butchers, bakers and candlestick makers?

I judge Messi's footballing talents purely on his talents as a footballer, not his trophy haul. He's the best I've seen. Followed by Ronaldo. These two are obviously leagues ahead of any footballer who's been around since probably Maradona.

 

[BlackShark_80]

So a footballer from some micronation can't possibly be the best footballer in the world, no matter how good at football he becomes, because the rest of his teammates are butchers, bakers and candlestick makers?.

Maradona at least able to performed the highest level at both Club and NT even with less talented teammates than Messi ever had. If Messi truly is the greatest ever he should be able to do the same like Maradona did.

 

[Cabin Clown]

Messi is considered the GOAT by most and Zidane is not even in the conversation. Messi all the way.

If I were Messi I would have joined City (when Pep joined) and Spain though. Would have had a much better career.

In what planet is Zidane not in the GOAT debate? He's the best player I've ever seen.

Personal achievement's you go with Messi, but in terms of winning things then Zidane all day long.

 

[paraguayo]

The question isn't "Who was the better player", people..

Zidane's career to me is more exciting. Winning a World Cup, head butting Materazzi in the other final, the volley against Leverkusen. I don't know, I just find his career more dramatic. Messi has a better Liga record, and is more of a 'boring consistent' machine like career with much poorer NT results.

 

[SAFMUTD]

In what planet is Zidane not in the GOAT debate? He's the best player I've ever seen.

Personal achievement's you go with Messi, but in terms of winning things then Zidane all day long.

In any rational one, Zidane was a great player but when talking about the GOAT not even Cristiano is in that conversation.

It’s about Pele, Maradona and Messi.

Now to answer the OP question, Messi has had a better individual career without a doubt with all the Balon D Or awards; but for me the world cup is something special also the Euro to a leaser extent and considering Zidane also won the UCL, some league titles and the Balon D Or I would take Zidane’s career. Messi is hated in Argentina for some strange reason.

 

[Dr. StrangeHate]

The question isn't "Who was the better player", people..

Zidane's career to me is more exciting. Winning a World Cup, head butting Materazzi in the other final, the volley against Leverkusen. I don't know, I just find his career more dramatic. Messi has a better Liga record, and is more of a 'boring consistent' machine like career with much poorer NT results.

Consistent greatness/genius is boring but sporadic genius/drama is exciting. I personally don't think so.

 

[Scotty McT]

Maradona at least able to performed the highest level at both Club and NT even with less talented teammates than Messi ever had. If Messi truly is the greatest ever he should be able to do the same like Maradona did.

Maradona and Messi are both freak athletes with ridiculous amounts of skill. They could both do whatever on any given day. More stuff came off at national level for the cocaine fuelled one than it has for the HGH fuelled one, granted, but it was a different era back then and the level of professionalism in football nowadays is far ahead of what it was in Maradona's day when half the opposition were probably on the lash the night before. That also factors into Messi being the goat. You just have to read some old biographies to see how seriously a lot of the old top players treated their profession.

 

[BlackShark_80]

Maradona and Messi are both freak athletes with ridiculous amounts of skill. They could both do whatever on any given day. More stuff came off at national level for the cocaine fuelled one than it has for the HGH fuelled one, granted, but it was a different era back then and the level of professionalism in football nowadays is far ahead of what it was in Maradona's day when half the opposition were probably on the lash the night before. That also factors into Messi being the goat. You just have to read some old biographies to see how seriously a lot of the old top players treated their profession.

I know how most of the greats like Best and Garrincha treated their careers. Their downfall were almost very similiar because of Booze, woman, etc. Garrincha was even well-known for being lazy at training session. But what makes him incredible was not only his skills but also able to performed the highest level at 1962 WC with a crooked leg too.

 

[Ishdalar]

Henry was a part time player in 98, and he was probably France's 3rd best at 2006, meanwhile Zidane was on a totally different level at both World Cups and Euro 2000 where he was ridiculously good.

Your Arbeloa vs Ferdinand comparison is off, it's more Henry vs Zidane than the other way around.

"He never won a Cup", that's just cute

Zidane in the 98' WC on a whole other level .

1st game: France demolish South Africa 3-0. Also, Henry
2nd game: Zidane stomps a Saudi player and earns a 2 match suspension, Henry scores 2 goals.
3rd game: Zidane doesn't play.
R16: Zidane doesn't play.
QF: Does almost nothing in a dull game.
SF: Thuram's show.

But hey, he scored two headers from set pieces in a WC final, untouchable.

In his home WC, with his team winning the trophy and destroying Brazil in the final, Ronaldo got the golden ball. Was that due to sponsors too?.

 

[Sir Scott McToMinay]

In what planet is Zidane not in the GOAT debate? He's the best player I've ever seen.

Personal achievement's you go with Messi, but in terms of winning things then Zidane all day long.

Messi is better than Zidane at literally everything other than heading, there’s literally no comparison between the two.
What you’re actually saying is that Zidane is your favorite player from the ones you’ve ever seen, that’s an entirely different story.

 

[tomaldinho1]

It's a really interesting question from the OP. Worth pointing out, there's no comparison for who is/was the better player but this is more about career.

Personally, I'd go Zidane as it stands. He's one of the greatest players from his generation/arguably all time anyway so it's not like we're comparing Messi to some dunce, if I were putting myself in their shoes I'd be far happier as Zidane. I'm a living Legend in France, am worshipped at Madrid, loved at Juve and Bordeaux, have won titles across different major domestic leagues, won the Champions League, have a Ballon D'or a Euro and a World Cup. My legacy is set in stone.

 

[JPRouve]

It's a really interesting question from the OP. Worth pointing out, there's no comparison for who is/was the better player but this is more about career.

Personally, I'd go Zidane as it stands. He's one of the greatest players from his generation/arguably all time anyway so it's not like we're comparing Messi to some dunce, if I were putting myself in their shoes I'd be far happier as Zidane. I'm a living Legend in France, am worshipped at Madrid, loved at Juve and Bordeaux, have won titles across different major domestic leagues, won the Champions League, have a Ballon D'or a Euro and a World Cup. My legacy is set in stone.

Conversely Messi has something that will be almost impossible to match, he is the all time goalscorer and assists maker in La Liga, that's something that I would like to have. The only deal breaker for me regarding Messi's career is Maradona, I would hate being in his shadow in my own country.

 

[MVBDX]

Zidane in the 98' WC on a whole other level .

1st game: France demolish South Africa 3-0. Also, Henry
2nd game: Zidane stomps a Saudi player and earns a 2 match suspension, Henry scores 2 goals.
3rd game: Zidane doesn't play.
R16: Zidane doesn't play.
QF: Does almost nothing in a dull game.
SF: Thuram's show.

But hey, he scored two headers from set pieces in a WC final, untouchable.

In his home WC, with his team winning the trophy and destroying Brazil in the final, Ronaldo got the golden ball. Was that due to sponsors too?.

Zidane's corner set up Christophe Dugarry against South Africa, and in the second game he got past out of a challenge and flicked a pass for Lizarazu to tee up Henry’s opener. Later he was sent off.

The 3rd group match was irrelevant, so he missed just one relevant game. I said on a totally different level compared to Henry, who was just a kid that got some minutes (he didn't start in QF, SF or the final) but not when the push came to shove.

In the end Zidane more than made up for it by two goals in the final against the favorites. "Hey he scored two headers" is an absolutely dumb way of putting it as such goals make or break the destiny of teams and change history, though it's nothing new coming from you, who has literally made dozens (if not more) of posts/threads to downplay Zidane's achievements already.

And you conveniently ignored WC2006 or especially Euro2000 where he was clearly the best player in both tournaments, Messi (or any current Argentinian) would kill to have had 1/10th of such performances for his national team.

 

[Zlaatan]

In what planet is Zidane not in the GOAT debate? He's the best player I've ever seen.

Personal achievement's you go with Messi, but in terms of winning things then Zidane all day long.

Zidane is probably my favorite player ever but he's not even the GOAT among midfielders for me. Throw in the usual forwards into the mix and he's not even close to being the best ever imho.

 

[JPRouve]

Zidane is probably my favorite player ever but he's not even the GOAT among midfielders for me. Throw in the usual forwards into the mix and he's not even close to being the best ever imho.

I don't even think that Zidane is the best french player, for me it's Platini.

 

[Casanova85]

Messi's by far. FCB his adoptive home. Reached glory with his childhood pals/team mates. He'll get a statue at CN when he retires, he's the loved-respected boss of the dressing room, he broke all individual records of all time, got 5 ballon d'or, multiple ligas, 4 UCL (so far).

Zidane was a supernova in 98-02 but he had way too many bitter episodes in his life: victim of racism, bad seasons, the headbutting infamy, etc.

Messi's career seems fullest, happier and longer in my opinion. He even achieved with his NT the same that Cruyff or Baggio did.

 

[Casanova85]

By the way, I think a more apt comparison would be of course "CR or Messi" and "Guardiola or Zidane" (including the managerial career)

Guardiola the player: 6 ligas, 1 European Cup, 1 Olympic Gold Medal, among other "minor" titles + legend in Catalonia. That nearly rivals Zidane's career other than the WC'98 title.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

Zidane, because headbutting yourself out of a World Cup semi-final is as cool as feck.

His form as he did it still amazes me. Perfection. It's like he was practicing beforehand.

 

[Casanova85]

Zidane, because headbutting yourself out of a World Cup semi-final is as cool as feck.

 

[adexkola]

Messi's by far. FCB his adoptive home. Reached glory with his childhood pals/team mates. He'll get a statue at CN when he retires, he's the loved-respected boss of the dressing room, he broke all individual records of all time, got 5 ballon d'or, multiple ligas, 4 UCL (so far).

Zidane was a supernova in 98-02 but he had way too many bitter episodes in his life: victim of racism, bad seasons, the headbutting infamy, etc.

Messi's career seems fullest, happier and longer in my opinion. He even achieved with his NT the same that Cruyff or Baggio did.

Didn't Cryuff win a Euro?

Otherwise, interesting question. The answer obviously is Cantona.

 

[VivaObertan]

Eder or Rooney?

 

[adexkola]

Eder or Rooney?

Eder of course.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

Shit, it was the final wasn't it

I don't have the best of memories and that makes it even cooler.

 

[Casanova85]

Didn't Cryuff win a Euro?

Otherwise, interesting question. The answer obviously is Cantona.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johan_Cruyff#Player_2

And Cantona's career was a mixed bag.

 

[adexkola]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johan_Cruyff#Player_2

And Cantona's career was a mixed bag.

Ah, I stand corrected. On Cryuff. Not Cantona

 

[tomaldinho1]

Conversely Messi has something that will be almost impossible to match, he is the all time goalscorer and assists maker in La Liga, that's something that I would like to have. The only deal breaker for me regarding Messi's career is Maradona, I would hate being in his shadow in my own country.

Yh there's a load of positives for Messi, he's probably got a bag full of records that won't be broken and ability wise is pretty untouchable.

I think the latter part is what really swings it for me because despite being a better player than Zidane (or just about anyone) there's something missing. Whereas with Zidane, sure he could have won the same league titles more times or more CL's but he won them at least once already. You only had to see CR7's reaction to winning the Euros with Portugal to see how much national team success means to his legacy and it's something that is a gaping hole in Messi's career. I also question his decision to stay as a one club player forever because whilst he will always be revered in Barcelona, someone like Zidane has a much wider fan base in my opinion and it's why CR7 has carefully been mapping out his career.

If football centred around La Liga, Messi would reign supreme and there'd be no argument that he is the GOAT far ahead of Pele, Maradona, CR7 and the rest but it's not. Football is a global sport and when comparing the careers of Zidane and Messi in that context, I think Zidane currently wins.

 

[Bole Top]

for me, legacy is not just the total number of trophies won, but the acknowledgement you receive after you finish your career. I find it a bit strange that the title of the greatest that has ever played doesn't mean much to some, since that's the title that will be associated with very, very few players and Zidane is not one of them.

obviously someone has to win the world cup every four years so plenty of players will have that trophy to brag about, but the number of those who are going to be rembered as the best ever isn't going to change much and Zidane won't be in that company.

what one would prefer for himself is another thing of course. I'd like to be the best at something or at least to people think of me as the best (whether it's football or acting, doesn't matter).

 

[Demyanenko_square_jaw]

Being a bit of a maverick, these two are too mainstream and successful for me. I'd go with Anatoli Kozhemyakin.

 

[Shakesy]

I never saw Maradona play... But was he actually better than Messi? I cannot phantom anyone being better than Messi ability-wise... Perhaps on international level, but surely not club level...

 

[Shakesy]

Zidane, because headbutting yourself out of a World Cup *final is as cool as feck.

Amen bruvva!

 

[Sweet Square]

Zidane, because headbutting yourself out of a World Cup semi-final is as cool as feck.

Don't forget the panenka penalty he scored against Buffon before the head butt.

He should of won a oscar for creating that level of drama.

 

[Ramos]

The way that WC 2006 played out though. I mean seriously, he was done by then. Weeks from retirement. That wasn't supposed to be his World Cup. That tournament had peak Kaka, Ronaldinho, Henry, Pirlo and Xavi and emerging young superstars like Robben, RVP, Rooney, CR7 and Messi. Plus the greats from his gen Figo, R9 and Beckham. But out of all of them HE was the standout player. At 34. That tells you something.

 

[Gringo]

So what we've learnt is that the majority of the forum are narcissists who would prefer being remembered and called the greatest of all time, winning so many trophies that you'd have to build a whole outbuilding to store them all in with 24/7 round the clock security instead of opting for the player who gave a whole nation and millions of people around the world euphoric happiness of their first world cup. Thanks Redcafe.

 

[The Siege]

It's a rite of passage, and without that world cup or even a copa america, he can't be the GOAT for a lot of people. I think his legacy takes a hit because of his international career. You can't highlight one aspect of football like club football and ignore the failures he's had on the international side.

Nah, don't buy it. He's been absolutely incredible for Argentina too, and he's the last person you'd point at for Argentina's failures (especially at his peak). It's not his fault that team could never be coached into a cohesive unit, he's scored 68 in 136 and done a lot more than score too.

Also his club appearance:international appearance ratio is almost 7:1. Where he's played most of his football, he is nothing short of legendary.

 

[BlackShark_80]

I never saw Maradona play... But was he actually better than Messi? I cannot phantom anyone being better than Messi ability-wise... Perhaps on international level, but surely not club level...

Ability-wise Pele and Maradona were on same level with Messi, Pele was a bit better than Messi but not much. On club level Messi won, but on International Level Pele and Maradona won.

 

[Sayros]

Nah, don't buy it. He's been absolutely incredible for Argentina too, and he's the last person you'd point at for Argentina's failures (especially at his peak). It's not his fault that team could never be coached into a cohesive unit, he's scored 68 in 136 and done a lot more than score too.

Also his club appearance:international appearance ratio is almost 7:1. Where he's played most of his football, he is nothing short of legendary.

That's fine and all, but you speak to Argentinians, or just fans in general and he does get the blame. I don't think it's fair either, but many people will not look on his international career as a success compared to other legends of the game. He will be an absolute legend of club football, but he will have nowhere near the same respect on the international scene. The sample size is undoubtedly smaller on the international scene compared to club football, but that's the same for everybody. He has less international goals in his career in knockout stages of the world cup than freakin' Mbappe who's barely 20 and has had two less world cups to participate in. His missed penalty against Chile, his early retirement and come back, there's no way he will be seen as a legend of the international game. he will be a Barcelona legend and remembered as one of the bests, but I don't think he will be considered greater than Pele in general, or Maradona to Argentinians.

 

[Bole Top]

So what we've learnt is that the majority of the forum are narcissists who would prefer being remembered and called the greatest of all time, winning so many trophies that you'd have to build a whole outbuilding to store them all in with 24/7 round the clock security instead of opting for the player who gave a whole nation and millions of people around the world euphoric happiness of their first world cup. Thanks Redcafe.

like someone said, what we prefer more in this thread tells a bit about us. I don't have problem with admitting that I don't care that much about my own country that I'd sacrifice personal glory just to bring home one particular trophy. especially since I'm from very small country that perhaps won't even exist in 100-150 years, is corrupted as hell, it's already collapsing in a way and I don't even work there anymore so obviously I'm not that attached to it or people who live there. so yeah, I'd rather be remembered as the best or one of the best, winning trophy every year and breaking all kinds of records than win a trophy that would mean something "only" to people from my country. there, I said it.

if this was Ronaldo vs Messi debate, you would have two greats with comparable careers, but with one having that national trophy. but in this case it's a bit different because aside from that, Zidane's career is rather poor compared to Messi's. I mean, is it really narcissistic if I'd hate to win only three titles during my whole career? is it really narcissistic if I'd hate the fact that I'm the best on the planet yet I have to wait so long for my next title? when you're on Messi's/Ronaldo's level, your ability is also matched by similar amibition and in that case it's far from being fine when in 15+ years of your club career you're competetive in three of them.

 

[jem]

The question isn't "Who was the better player", people..

Zidane's career to me is more exciting. Winning a World Cup, head butting Materazzi in the other final, the volley against Leverkusen. I don't know, I just find his career more dramatic. Messi has a better Liga record, and is more of a 'boring consistent' machine like career with much poorer NT results.

 

[Cabin Clown]

Messi is better than Zidane at literally everything other than heading, there’s literally no comparison between the two.
What you’re actually saying is that Zidane is your favorite player from the ones you’ve ever seen, that’s an entirely different story.

I can honestly say Zidane was the best player I've seen, favouritism/bias aside. And the main point still stands that I'd prefer his career over Messi's, personal achievement's aside.