Whose career would you rather have had? Messi or Zidane

diarm said:
Just the idea of doing so is deeply unsexy.

The sexy footballer is not broken down into stats and attributes. He is appreciated like a fine wine or piece of art. He is the way you felt watching him play.
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This is very true. Very well described.

It’s why some think Zidane was overrated and some think he’s one of the best ever.
 
diarm said:
For me, I grew up idolizing Zidane. I've always loved the sexy footballer - Cantona, Baggio, Bergkamp etc. The guys who made the extraordinary look like it came natural, easy or even lazily to them and Zidane was the master of this.
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Pretty much this (to the entire post). If I were choosing one or the other career for myself, I wouldn’t be too fussed about the GOAT status (on which Messi has a strong claim and Zidane has none), but as an overall image, Zidane is more... interesting?
 
diarm said:
Some people get so weird in conversations involving Messi.

It's like all they need is the mention of his name, and they lose all objectivity and comprehension ability. It's possible to think Messi is the most gifted footballer ever to have lived, but still prefer the career of someone else. A career is about more aspects than merely talent and you don't need to be personally insulted that someone else may weigh the other criteria in a different way to yourself.

For me, I grew up idolizing Zidane. I've always loved the sexy footballer - Cantona, Baggio, Bergkamp etc. The guys who made the extraordinary look like it came natural, easy or even lazily to them and Zidane was the master of this.

He strutted about the field as if he owned it. He was too cool to care about being the best, but when he felt like it, he'd show you just because he could.

He also had a fire inside him. An edge that I've always admired in my favourite sporting heroes. He was flawed and human and when someone insulted his sister he laid him out - world cup final be damned. You can't not respect that.

He probably underachieved a little bit at club level, considering the players and clubs he played with, but he still won the lot and was the star of a squad full of big names in doing so. He scored one of the most iconic goals of all time in winning the European Cup and was rightly recognised as the greatest player on the planet.

People say the world cup is just another trophy but it's more than that. Zidane is adored and revered by his own people. He brought them the trophy that said they were the best team on the planet for the first time and will always be remembered for that. It's more than just another cup and no club competition will ever compare with that.

All this said, I can completely understand why anyone else might pick Messi's career over Zidane. My personal perception doesn't mean someone else is wrong - just that they see and value different things.

Messi will be remembered as perhaps the most gifted footballer ever to play the game. He has been the best player in probably the greatest club side ever seen and has dominated the biggest club competition there is. He's won 5 Balon D'Ors and has mesmerised us while gliding around football pitches doing what he wants, treating professional defenders with the sort of casual disdain one of us would show dribbling around 3 year olds. He was a better footballer than Zidane - no doubt about it.

But in my eyes, Messi is also a bit of a nerd. He has all the talent in the world, but he's never been a sexy footballer. He should be, because he can do the lot and it comes easier to him than anyone else there's ever been, but he isn't.

Perhaps it's because he cares too much. He's the teachers pet and all the other players in the squad have to revolve around him. Perhaps it's because he lacks the edge and fire within. Maybe I see him as a little too meek or vanilla, and wonder what would've happened had someone insulted his sister in a world cup final?

There's also the fact that almost all of his success has come from being the focal point of one of the greatest sides in history, from benefiting from being in front of (in my opinion) the greatest midfield in history. A midfield and (largely) side that has gone on to win World and European cups without him but without which he himself has achieved far less.

Or maybe it's the fact that he's only ever shown his class for one club and in one 2 club league. I'e always admired the man who takes the risk to move and prove himself all over again.

Whatever it is, those are rightly or wrongly my perceptions of Zidane, Messi and their careers. The question was which career would you prefer but I see it as which of those two men would you like to have been?

And if that's the question, there is only one answer for me. Zidane.
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Great Post. I couldn't quite put my finger on it but this explains it perfectly.
 
harms said:
Pretty much this (to the entire post). If I were choosing one or the other career for myself, I wouldn’t be too fussed about the GOAT status (on which Messi has a strong claim and Zidane has none), but as an overall image, Zidane is more... interesting?
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Bobade said:
Great Post. I couldn't quite put my finger on it but this explains it perfectly.
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Cheers lads. I was worried it might come across a bit pretentious as I was posting it!
 
diarm said:
Some people get so weird in conversations involving Messi.

It's like all they need is the mention of his name, and they lose all objectivity and comprehension ability. It's possible to think Messi is the most gifted footballer ever to have lived, but still prefer the career of someone else. A career is about more aspects than merely talent and you don't need to be personally insulted that someone else may weigh the other criteria in a different way to yourself.

For me, I grew up idolizing Zidane. I've always loved the sexy footballer - Cantona, Baggio, Bergkamp etc. The guys who made the extraordinary look like it came natural, easy or even lazily to them and Zidane was the master of this.

He strutted about the field as if he owned it. He was too cool to care about being the best, but when he felt like it, he'd show you just because he could.

He also had a fire inside him. An edge that I've always admired in my favourite sporting heroes. He was flawed and human and when someone insulted his sister he laid him out - world cup final be damned. You can't not respect that.

He probably underachieved a little bit at club level, considering the players and clubs he played with, but he still won the lot and was the star of a squad full of big names in doing so. He scored one of the most iconic goals of all time in winning the European Cup and was rightly recognised as the greatest player on the planet.

People say the world cup is just another trophy but it's more than that. Zidane is adored and revered by his own people. He brought them the trophy that said they were the best team on the planet for the first time and will always be remembered for that. It's more than just another cup and no club competition will ever compare with that.

All this said, I can completely understand why anyone else might pick Messi's career over Zidane. My personal perception doesn't mean someone else is wrong - just that they see and value different things.

Messi will be remembered as perhaps the most gifted footballer ever to play the game. He has been the best player in probably the greatest club side ever seen and has dominated the biggest club competition there is. He's won 5 Balon D'Ors and has mesmerised us while gliding around football pitches doing what he wants, treating professional defenders with the sort of casual disdain one of us would show dribbling around 3 year olds. He was a better footballer than Zidane - no doubt about it.

But in my eyes, Messi is also a bit of a nerd. He has all the talent in the world, but he's never been a sexy footballer. He should be, because he can do the lot and it comes easier to him than anyone else there's ever been, but he isn't.

Perhaps it's because he cares too much. He's the teachers pet and all the other players in the squad have to revolve around him. Perhaps it's because he lacks the edge and fire within. Maybe I see him as a little too meek or vanilla, and wonder what would've happened had someone insulted his sister in a world cup final?

There's also the fact that almost all of his success has come from being the focal point of one of the greatest sides in history, from benefiting from being in front of (in my opinion) the greatest midfield in history. A midfield and (largely) side that has gone on to win World and European cups without him but without which he himself has achieved far less.

Or maybe it's the fact that he's only ever shown his class for one club and in one 2 club league. I'e always admired the man who takes the risk to move and prove himself all over again.

Whatever it is, those are rightly or wrongly my perceptions of Zidane, Messi and their careers. The question was which career would you prefer but I see it as which of those two men would you like to have been?

And if that's the question, there is only one answer for me. Zidane.
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Well said, couldn’t agree more.
 
Honestly probably Zidane, although I'm likely to change my mind on this depending on the day.

Even though Messi might be the GOAT, I just think winning the World Cup must be such a special experience and moment to look back on in your career.

Messi has obviously dominated and won more at club level, but Zidane has mixed in international success and has everything you could wish for when you look back at your career as a player still:
  • Multiple league titles.
  • CL wins - MOTM + scored one of the greatest finals' goals ever.
  • WC win - 2 goals + MOTM in the final.
  • Won the Euros - PoT tournament.
  • Universally regarded as one of the best ever.
  • Highlights reels of incredible skills that people will watch for eternity.
  • Wealth.
  • Ballon D'or trophy.
The fact that Messi might be the greatest ever is the only thing that might swing it, once you've won a few league titles and the CL, I don't think adding several more really adds that much when you look back on your career, not compared to winning the World Cup.
 
ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg said:
Are we ignoring individual honours and achievements?

a career is not just about trophies.

what your saying is which trophy haul you would prefer?
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Yes, that is what I'm saying, I'd clearly prefer Zidane's trophy haul. A World Cup is worth more than any other trophy.
 
diarm said:
Some people get so weird in conversations involving Messi.

It's like all they need is the mention of his name, and they lose all objectivity and comprehension ability. It's possible to think Messi is the most gifted footballer ever to have lived, but still prefer the career of someone else. A career is about more aspects than merely talent and you don't need to be personally insulted that someone else may weigh the other criteria in a different way to yourself.

For me, I grew up idolizing Zidane. I've always loved the sexy footballer - Cantona, Baggio, Bergkamp etc. The guys who made the extraordinary look like it came natural, easy or even lazily to them and Zidane was the master of this.

He strutted about the field as if he owned it. He was too cool to care about being the best, but when he felt like it, he'd show you just because he could.

He also had a fire inside him. An edge that I've always admired in my favourite sporting heroes. He was flawed and human and when someone insulted his sister he laid him out - world cup final be damned. You can't not respect that.

He probably underachieved a little bit at club level, considering the players and clubs he played with, but he still won the lot and was the star of a squad full of big names in doing so. He scored one of the most iconic goals of all time in winning the European Cup and was rightly recognised as the greatest player on the planet.

People say the world cup is just another trophy but it's more than that. Zidane is adored and revered by his own people. He brought them the trophy that said they were the best team on the planet for the first time and will always be remembered for that. It's more than just another cup and no club competition will ever compare with that.

All this said, I can completely understand why anyone else might pick Messi's career over Zidane. My personal perception doesn't mean someone else is wrong - just that they see and value different things.

Messi will be remembered as perhaps the most gifted footballer ever to play the game. He has been the best player in probably the greatest club side ever seen and has dominated the biggest club competition there is. He's won 5 Balon D'Ors and has mesmerised us while gliding around football pitches doing what he wants, treating professional defenders with the sort of casual disdain one of us would show dribbling around 3 year olds. He was a better footballer than Zidane - no doubt about it.

But in my eyes, Messi is also a bit of a nerd. He has all the talent in the world, but he's never been a sexy footballer. He should be, because he can do the lot and it comes easier to him than anyone else there's ever been, but he isn't.

Perhaps it's because he cares too much. He's the teachers pet and all the other players in the squad have to revolve around him. Perhaps it's because he lacks the edge and fire within. Maybe I see him as a little too meek or vanilla, and wonder what would've happened had someone insulted his sister in a world cup final?

There's also the fact that almost all of his success has come from being the focal point of one of the greatest sides in history, from benefiting from being in front of (in my opinion) the greatest midfield in history. A midfield and (largely) side that has gone on to win World and European cups without him but without which he himself has achieved far less.

Or maybe it's the fact that he's only ever shown his class for one club and in one 2 club league. I'e always admired the man who takes the risk to move and prove himself all over again.

Whatever it is, those are rightly or wrongly my perceptions of Zidane, Messi and their careers. The question was which career would you prefer but I see it as which of those two men would you like to have been?

And if that's the question, there is only one answer for me. Zidane.
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Brilliant post, one of the best I've ever read on this forum.
 
VanKenny said:
I guess we are debating just for the sake of debating right? I mean, just find one or good decent arguments and stick by them, and be the cool kid that argues against the obvious correct answer?


How in the hell can anybody say Zidane has had a better football career than Messi, thats just ridiculous. If you weigh national competitions higher than club competitions BY THAT MUCH, then you have to stick by it and the whole list of top 50 players of all time changes drastically just to fit those who have world cup medals.

Pele #1 and would never be topped
Xavi, Iniesta, Villa, Torres etc, all part of that 3 peat of national cups, with a few CLs and La Ligas to their name, HAVE to be on the top 10
Players like Messi or Cruyff will have to settle somewhere on the top 20-30



Individual awards:

Messi 10/10 career
Zidane 8/10 career



Club Career:

Messi 10/10 career
Zidane 7/10 career



Individual statistics

Messi 10/10 career
Zidane 7/10 career


National team career:

Zidane 9/10
Messi 7/10 (giving that he got to 3 finals, and is still top scorer and top assister of his country)



I mean you do the math, but thats pretty much how i see it. Of course if you think the WC is better than 10+ years absolutely dominating the world of football, then i guess we can agree to disagree.
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You don't get it, do you ? This isn't about who had the better career, it's about who's career would you rather have had.
Sure, Messi has dominated for over a decade and in terms of individual achievements, he clearly tops Zidane. But the thing is Zidane has won all there is to win, and it is only natural that many of us would rather have all the trophies there is to win in their trophy cabinet (including the most important one, the World Cup), rather than having just a multitude of the same club trophies.
There is nothing worth winning in the game that Zidane hasn't won, and that's why many would prefer his career, despite the fact that Messi is clearly a much better player.
 
Definitely Messi. 6 Ballon D’ors, 3 CL (or 4 if we count the one he only played a bit part role), overall 30+ trophies won, and mostly importantly, a career which makes him earn around 1m per week (or nearly 100m a year).


Best team achievement:
Sure he doesn’t have any WC, but there are many WC winners in the past (every 4 year there are around 30 players who won WC as squad members, or 11 players who won WC as regular player). So out of 21 past winners, there are over 500 players who had won WC in the past...

Vs

Best individual achievements
But there are only 25 players who had won Ballon D’or since it was introduced 65 years ago. Out of those, there are only 10 players who had won it more than once, only 5 players who had won it more than 3 times, and only 2 players who had won it more than 5 times... and only 1 player who had won it 6 times

Thing is, would you rather have 1 WC + 1 Ballon D’or in your career, or would you rather have 6 Ballon D’or?

But if it’s 1 WC + 1 Ballon D’or vs 2 Ballon D’or, i may prefer the former one. Now if it’s 1 WC + 1 Ballon D’or vs 3 Ballon D’or, it becomes very tricky, It’s like a Zidane vs Cruyff career. Maybe I will prefer 3 Ballon D’or.
 
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POF said:
:lol::lol::lol:

Surely you're not serious. 10 league titles and 3 champions leagues vs 3 league titles, one champions league a world cup and a European championship. Messi must really envy Zidane's intertoto cup win!

This thread is just bizarre. One has dominated European football for a decade, producing goalscoring numbers year after year never seen before. The other looks good in youtube videos to orchestra music.
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wow. One of the most disrespectful things I’ve seen on this forum.

and, yes I know I’m late to the party.
 
Zidane has to be the most overhyped footballer of all time. Constantly gets put in comparisons with players he has no business being in the same room with. Don’t get me wrong, he was a very good footballer, but doesn’t come anywhere near the talent of Lionel Messi. Trophies only matter if you haven’t won any. Messi has won a lot of trophies in his career. Along with those trophies he has absolutely destroyed the best defenders in the world over and over again. Not winning with Argentina doesn’t matter if you have had a career like Messi.
 
We're comparing two obviously brilliant professional football careers, but if we want to discuss the whole of the man (the "cool" Zidane v the "nerd" Messi) that's one thing. But if we want to talk about the career on the pitch, this is one of the easier questions ever posted on the caf:

Lionel Messi

The one factor that gives even Zidane any kind of edge over Messi as a player is the 1998 World Cup win. If Messi does retire without ever having won a World Cup trophy that does leave something of a hole in his resume, but my God what a insane playing career he had otherwise, amassing individual and clubs honors that Zidane cannot match.

There should also be some acknowledgement of Zidane's madness in the 2006 WC final. It's inconceivable that Messi would ever commit such an act, regardless of the circumstances of the match. And it wasn't exactly an isolated headsgone moment in what was otherwise a brilliant career. Zidane was sent off 14 times in his career and was known as something of a hot head on the pitch. Materazzi knew exactly what he was doing and exploited that known mental weakness in Zidane and we all saw him lose it in the WC final.

As far as I can tell, Messi has been sent off only once in his career. There has never been a whiff of concern of Messi being a player who loses his head or takes cheap shots at opponents. (Cue up the YouTube video of the one time he did take a cheap shot at an opposing player.)

Which career would I rather have? Lionel Messi, arguably the GOAT, and if he somehow leads Argentina to a WC win in 2022 will be the undisputed GOAT. Despite the post above, this is not an emotional reaction to one of the greatest players ever to play the game, but a recognition of the reality that Messi belongs in the same sentence as Pele and Maradona, whereas Zidane belongs in the same conversation as Cruyff and Beckenbauer. All incredible company, of course, but Pele, Maradona and Messi are all at a level above Cruyff, Beckenbauer and Zidane.

But if you tack on Zidane's career as manager -- and for whatever reason I just can't see Messi being a successful club manager -- then that's a different story altogether. What he's accomplished as manager of Real is beyond remarkable and at that point, player and manager, Zidane may have had the most illustrious football career -- player at the national and club level and as manager -- of any man in the history of the sport.
 
People here seriously underestimate the importance of winning a World Cup. Particularly for an Argentinean. I bet that Messi would gladly give up his Champions Leagues and La Liga's in exchange for lifting the WC trophy with Argentina.
Zidane never had the consistent dominance of Messi, but got to win a bit of everything, including a vital role in winning a European and World titles for his country.
 
If I was a footballer I’d give up 10 league titles for a World Cup
 
Have to be Zidane. Won it all and did it on thee biggest stage. Can’t underestimate winning a World Cup. And to score twice in the Final on home turf, Roy of the Rovers stuff. Not to mention the best goal ever in a Champ LG final.
 
Zidane’s, he gets to live the rest of his life in Europe around all his great triumphs.
 
sullydnl said:
Messi: 10 La Ligas, 4 CLs, 6 Copa Del Rays, an Olympics medal, 5 Ballon d'Ors.

Zidane: 2 Serie As, 1 Supercoppa Italiana, 1 La Liga, 1 CL, 1 WC, 1 European Championship, 1 Ballon d'Or.

Zidane's collection is more varied but he ultimately won a lot less, largely because Messi was by far the better player of the two. So Messi, I think.
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Zidane scored 2 goals in winning a WC final, and also scored the best ever Champions League final goal. He also absolutely dominated the Euros in 2002 from start to finish, similar to Maradona in 1986.

Why are Ballon d'Ors on there? They aren't trophies ffs.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
Zidane scored 2 goal in winning a WC final, and also scored the best ever Champions League final goal.

Why are Ballon d'Ors on there? They aren't trophies ffs.
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Because much though I personally dislike the emphasis placed on the Ballon D'Or, it's something players clearly value very highly. As Messi expressed when Ronaldo tied with him on five:

When Cristiano Ronaldo pulled level with me, I'll admit that it hurt a little as I was no longer alone at the top.

Which isn't surprising as his great rival Ronaldo has repeatedly used it as a measure of greatness, including by opening and closing his authorised documentary with the Ballon d'Or ceremony, openly weeping on stage upon winning, describing one win as the most beautiful moment of his life and describing the award as an honour that stays for life.

As for Zidane, he held it in enough esteem to use it as motivation and/or a standard for excellence when managing Modric:

"I remember it word for word," Modric said to AFP . "He said, 'I see you as a player who can one day win the Ballon d'Or'.

Meanwhile Griezmann publicly said he dreams of winning it, Varane described the award as giving players an aura that follows them for the rest of their lives, countless young players have outright said winning it is one of their career ambitions (e.g. Jadon Sancho: "Obviously, I dream of winning the Ballon d’Or, given the likes of those who have won it previously, like Leo Messi, Cristiano Ronaldo, Modric and Ronaldinho. All these greats have won it, so I feel like that should be a big inspiration to everyone in the world that plays football") and many players (including our own Anthony Martial and Bruno Fernandes) have clauses relating to the Ballon d'Or built into their contracts. And so on.

If it's something footballers value that highly and openly list among their career ambitions then it seems fair to mention it when discussing two players' careers.
 
If I could extend Zidanes career and have a couple years in England, then chilling in NY....could sell it to me. So basically Thierry Henry's career? :lol:
 
Messi because he made more money I could redistribute, but in terms of pure ego satisfaction Zidane's world cup makes him the answer, though the Materazzi thing would haunt me til my dying day.
 
If Zidane and Messi played in the same era, I imagine Zidane would be more jealous of Messi's year by year dominance.

In retrospect, Zidane's looks better when written down.
 
Bogdannn said:
You don't get it, do you ? This isn't about who had the better career, it's about who's career would you rather have had.
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At some point, the thread became a debate about who had the best career because clearly people werent agreeing with each other's opinions. This is a forum after all, subtopics may open up inside threads.

You would rather have Zidane's career and thats okay, IMO its kind of a weird opinion but thats all right, to each their own. Going by that logic you would also rather have Iniesta's career over Messi's, or Xavi's, or Villa's, etc.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
Zidane scored 2 goals in winning a WC final, and also scored the best ever Champions League final goal. He also absolutely dominated the Euros in 2002 from start to finish, similar to Maradona in 1986.

Why are Ballon d'Ors on there? They aren't trophies ffs.
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They are individual trophies though and usually means that you regarded as the best player in the world. A Squad consisting of 22 players might win the best club trophy, but the Ballon D'or is the recognition that you the best in the world individually. Sometimes its a sham though, a bit like the Oscars. .
 
VanKenny said:
At some point, the thread became a debate about who had the best career because clearly people werent agreeing with each other's opinions. This is a forum after all, subtopics may open up inside threads.

You would rather have Zidane's career and thats okay, IMO its kind of a weird opinion but thats all right, to each their own. Going by that logic you would also rather have Iniesta's career over Messi's, or Xavi's, or Villa's, etc.
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Of course I'd rather have Iniesta's career over Messi's or Villa's. Xavi pretty much has won the same as Iniesta.
 
Zidane must be the most overrated player of all time by now. I guess that's a benefit of being a Madrid legend, you'll have hordes of Real fans throwing your name in every Goat discussion and soon enough people will actually believe you belong there.

Messi (and Messi's career) all the way.
 
Zidane without a question. Messi has gone to the point of tears for his country, felt so much pressure he retired early, and he has to hear from some morons in his own country that he's more Spanish than Argentinian and he can't ever match up with Diego, no matter what.

Zidane had the privilege of winning a world cup scoring two goals in the final in his home country and become an absolute hero of the people. Even his headbutt in the second final France ever got to of the world cup at that point (surprise, both times with Zidane), even that couldn't change the love French people have for Zizou. He's won everything whether it's club or international, and has a volley that's forever marked in the history of the CL.

Messi is by far the best player I've ever seen, they're not even comparable, but I'll take the highs of Zidane's career overall compared to Messi's, I'd rather live those memories if I were to go through one of the two careers.
 
Messi is the best player of all time. Zidane would be behind Ronaldinho, Cristiano, Fat Ronaldo, Pelé, Maradona. So Zidane is 7th best player of all time so kind of a pointless thread.

A bit like comparing Paul Scholes to Jack Wilshire. One was clearly a level above the other.

I think I'd prefer to have the career of the GOAT as opposed to the 7th best.
 
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