Can we please stop giving Guardiola credit for that? It was Heynckes who raised Bayern's level, and they did never reach the same heights in the league as they did in Heynckes' last season. Guardiola evolved their style of play, but he didn't break the records set under Heynckes, the results became a little bit worse, especially in the CL. Bayern looked more dominant in the league because of Dortmund's collapse, not because they improved.
I said domestic dominance and most Bayern supporters atleast on here seem to hold the same opinion and after Guardiola's exploits in PL I tend to agree with them that for sheer efficiency in the league Pep has no equals .
My point is that he didn't turn them into that machine, he just kept it running. I agree that he was very efficient at doing that, but he didn't have to build it.
Klopp was at Dortmund a long time, I think you can definitely argue around when Wolfsburg won the title Bayern’s team wasn’t amazing but afterwards just look at them in the CL as a barometer of their level. The years Klopp beat them to the title they were good but not amazing under LVG but then they were phenomenal in 11/12 under Heynckes (Di Matteo’s shithouse win in final).
You also have to give credit to LVG. He created the foundation for Heynckes to work on and implemented the basic style of play. As you said Bayern reached three CL finals in four years under them (2010, 2012, 2013), and during this time Dortmund/Klopp beat them to the league (2011 and 2012). So Bayern were already one of the strongest team in Europe and Dortmund could give them a run for their money, only that incredible form Dortmund had stopped Bayern from being domestically dominant already in 2010.
Pep to Bayern was announced in the month of January when none of those things had happened , Klopp was actually with Liverpool when Leicester won the title .
Pep leaving will be bad for us as he is the only one keeping Klopp in check. When he is gone Klopp can dominate easily as the Manchester City squad is nothing special. Manchester City winning doesn't really bother me too much.
Good point. Is there any chance Klopp maybe looking for another challenge soon?
Bayern at GW 20 were 12 points clear and had lost a single game, I think you can safely say they were favourites to win the title. I don't get why it would be relevant that they hadn't won the treble yet, it doesn't change the timing. Not sure why Klopp being at Pool matters either, he took over a very different team quality wise and during the season.
Barcelona wasn't league favorite (finished 19points behind Madrid the season before) or CL favorite in Pep's first season, yet they ended up winning both at the end of the season.
Yep I'd be very curious to see the thread here once Pep's appointment was announced.
I'm fairly certain Klopp was getting raved over and regarded as "better than Pep" long before the UCL win, even at the end of 18/19 when it looked like he was going to be empty handed again (when City were leading the title race and they were 3 down to Barca). Also Bayern didn't have close to the monopoly on the league as they do now, ofcourse impressive achievement never the less especially to repeat it but Wolfsburg, Bremen, Stuttgart and Dortmund themselves all won it over the previous decade.
Re: the bolded points:
I genuinely didn't know about that for some reason, very interesting. Didn't Fergie also confirm he enquired about his availability but was knocked back?
I think the CL win cemented it but, I definitely think you could argue, depending on what you think is hardest, that what he had done was more impressive even pre CL win.
City had the oldest squad in the league in Pep's first season especially in defence, the defenders were already in their 30's and weren't good at playing out from the back, they had to be replaced which is where the meme of Pep buying a lot of defenders started.
Absolutely. It's always a leap to extrapolate a manager/players current performance in a specific environment to expect a much improved/more dominant/more productive one in a different environment. Going by that logic, Pochettino who without spending anything maintained and improved Spurs must be some incredible manager who would wipe the floor with the rest given a real budget. But we know that isn't the case. Just like Pep hasn't proven he can manage all sorts of teams and truly build a club or team, we can't just assume Klopp would dominate at a richer more demanding club.
Klopp's Liverpool and their attack was nothing special until Salah and then Mané arrived to join Coutinho, 2 players that weren't just average players before they arrived.
Pep (and his Barca team) really influenced how the game is played but the reason why teams can't play exactly that way (even teams bigger than City) is because it's really not as easy as it seems and that other coaches can't do what Pep does.
I think you're going too far down the Pep-ite route here. He is a great coach but if you think the biggest differentiator isn't financial firepower I don't really know what to say. This goes for any coach in history, Pep is just the first to be unequivocally the biggest and most aggressive spender there has ever been and that is why it is puzzling how he's underperformed (and it has been arguably his decisions which cost them) in the CL when it is more about one off tactics, managing a single or two legged game and less about the sheer power and depth of a squad. He'll win it eventually with City but he should have won it at least once already when you look at who has knocked them out & the collapse of the continental competition. This is prime time for PL clubs to be cleaning up in Europe.
Sorry but what you just did in this whole post is judge the finished (or almost finished) products City players have become, not what they were before playing under Pep.
Only Zidane if i'm not mistaken has won 3 CL as a coach, other coaches who have also coached great teams haven't won more than 2 just like Pep (who has reached more semi finals than any other coach), so i don't see how he's underperforming compared to anyone else.
No not really: Mahrez came to City as a league winner and star in his own right; Grealish was a celebrated player and the star at his old club; De Bruyne was on his way to superstardom well before he landed at City's door; Sterling already had a fantastic campaign at Liverpool and so on and so forth.
