Who still has faith in The Philosophy? / LVG Supporters' Thread

[Chesterlestreet]

I know a lot about the philosophy of Louis van Gaal, and it is not so much a formation or a specific way of playing. It is getting your players to think on the pitch instead of reacting on instinct. For whatever reason, it doesn't seem to be working out.

Maybe the game has passed him by, or maybe the players aren't up to it. Maybe a bit of both.

Yeah, this is basically what I had in mind when we appointed him: That he would be able to teach the players a thing or two which would come in handy. And I still believe it's possible they have learned a thing or two from him.

The problem is that in addition to these basic teachings of his, he does opt for various tactical solutions, like any mortal manager has to. And the latter have been highly questionable.

As I take it LVG doesn't actually aim to remove all instinct from a player (that would be insane and counter productive, and I think he knows this very well), but that's what our players look like: Far too often they're not playing on gut feeling at all - like school boys they're out there trying their best to stick to a set of rules they don't really understand, and not quite getting it makes them all the more skittish and ineffective.

And you can't explain this by saying they're thick - or British, or whatever the case may be. Most of them aren't British, and they can't all be thicker than normal either.

 

[Garethw]

Over coached and given too many instructions. Players should be allowed a certain level of freedom on the pitch. Unfortunately we aren't going to see that again until this old fool has been sacked/retired.

 

[ghagua]

I know a lot about the philosophy of Louis van Gaal, and it is not so much a formation or a specific way of playing. It is getting your players to think on the pitch instead of reacting on instinct. For whatever reason, it doesn't seem to be working out.

Maybe the game has passed him by, or maybe the players aren't up to it. Maybe a bit of both.

Believe it or not, that's how they should be playing. No matter how much you prepare for a game, shite happens, and that's when you need to react to your instinct and play the game. Maybe that is the main problem

 

[Orange]

Believe it or not, that's how they should be playing. No matter how much you prepare for a game, shite happens, and that's when you need to react to your instinct and play the game. Maybe that is the main problem

No it's not. Suppose it's some players instinct to hoof the ball forward as soon as an opponent comes within 5m, without looking around if a good pass is available? Playing on instinct is the worst way to play. If you spend too much time having to think on the field, then you will just have to work to make whatever you are doing to be a new habit. Instinct doesn't make sure players keep a good shape as a team, practice and thinking before running around the field like a headless chicken does.

 

[mattsville]

It just has not worked, in the past few weeks we have completely changed our approach, we have been more attacking, eventually, but it is too late, and btw we did not continue with that changed approach against sunderland, we did'nt commit enough players forward, we committed no midfielders forward to get on to the 2nd ball breaking.

 

[Americano]

I'm confused though. We've seen some really good performances and then some abysmal ones...why this inconsistency?!! Is that down to the manager or the playing staff?

We are inconsistent because some opposing managers are not bright enough to realize that we always do the same thing, so they don't take advantage of our weaknesses and predictability to contain or beat us.

 

[Dr. Funkenstein]

You may have a point about mourinho but the problem is LVG suffers from all the same flaws as well and his failures far outweigh the mourinhos, even when things go well for LVG it tends to end badly and with him falling out with people.

No, their flaws are very different.

Too many people were/are taken in with this idea of LVG as some sort of genius, he isn't and never has been that.

If any of the active managers can claim to be a genius it is him. That doesn't garantuee anaything and things didn't work out, but that's because he didn't manage to get any consistency from this squad.

He fails as often as he succeeds and he can only be successful for short spells,

Simply not true.

mourinho has baggage but wherever he goes he has been a success,

Simply not true.

LVG hasn't been able to do the same because he is dependent on having the right players and things going his way, he lacks too many skills to succeed more regularly.

Every manager is dependent on the players, but LvG is the one who doesn't need the best players to perform. The last time Mourinho did something special was with Inter, since then he (slightly) underachieved and consequently got sacked twice. Mourinho is not only dependent on having superstars, he's also dependent on getting away with foul play, with slowing the game down, with a siege mentality of his players towards the referee to coerce him into giving cards, with himslef intimidating referee's and playing mind games. He's about getting unfair advantages. It works because of spineless referee's, especially in the PL, but that makes him very dependent on things going his way. If referee's for a change would applie the rules concerning asking for cards and sieging the referee and organizing brawls at the pitch tot waist time, one cornerstone of Mourinho's success would be gone.

Mourinho is a better motivator, better tactician and better at adapting, his teams even play good football at times but he adapts to win something LVG simply can't do, maybe mourinho has peaked but he would still be better than LVG, at this point anyone would to be honest because there is nothing to suggest LVG has any hope of turning things round.

We've all seen how motivated Chelsea was. The only thing LvG has to turn around is the consistency, there's little hope of that because it has happened to many times that after he seemed to have things turned around, the players fell back into either losing possession unnecessarily and panicking into long balls or overoptimistic passing, or dwelling and indecisive sideways passing. This has never happened before, once it clicked, it clicked for a long run of games. So it isn't working here, but at least it was a plan that could have worked.

People who think we're rich so we can buy a world class squad are in denial, just as well as people who think it is a world class squad just because it's Manchester United. Or that United will claim it's place among Europe's elite just because of it's size. But the fact is that United has been clinging on by the fingernails to Europe's elite for more than 10 years and that was with Ferguson. So United will not only have to prove that it can be a top club without Ferguson, it will also have to prove it can step up a gear after Ferguson. With all the transfer bullshit twice a year, the top of Europe actually has become quite stable, you can't just go out and buy Muller, Neymar and Bale, they are not for sale. And if they are, there are clubs in much nicer cities who will pay a comparable salary. The question is not wheter they can do it on a rainy night in Stoke, but whether they want to.

Building a world class squad takes about 5 years, and you need to buy a lot of the world class players young, before they are world class. You'll need to have your own youth players, because the rivals have and they're already ahead. And because they're ahead and will stay ahead for a while in terms of squad quality, United needs to get an advantage from team play. As those are the things LvG is particularly good at, there's nothing reassuring or comforting about him beeing sacked. His successor will have the same massive job to do, and if he has to start all over again it will only get harder because time is not on our side. So the sensible thing would be to find another manager who happily works with young players, who has at least some use for the possession game and who builds teams stronger than the sum of it's part.

 

[Kostur]

But the fact is that United has been clinging on by the fingernails to Europe's elite for more than 10 years and that was with Ferguson.

I find this bit particularly interesting, care to elaborate? Perhaps I haven't understood it right, you mean that we've been just in the elite? How would you define the 'elite'? Clubs who play year in year out in CL? Top 3/5/10 in Europe?

 

[Sparky Rhiwabon]

For the disaster that is unfolding this season, there are still positives to be taken from Van Gaal's reign (which I assume is nearly over) for example:

- several useful looking young players brought into the first team picture
- big dead wood removal job that no manager would relish - he hasn't shied away from this
- Martial signing and successful incorporation into the team
- Shaw kicking on pre his injury - hopefully he'll come back strongly
- Smalling's development into a top class CB
- Blind a good squad signing who can cover a few different positions

 

[Dr. Funkenstein]

I find this bit particularly interesting, care to elaborate? Perhaps I haven't understood it right, you mean that we've been just in the elite? How would you define the 'elite'? Clubs who play year in year out in CL? Top 3/5/10 in Europe?

What I mean is that in the early 2000's United would be among the favorites and considered to be almost a certainty in the last 4 or 8. Since then United has not only been outplayed more than once, there were also struggles and even losses against clubs from Lille or Basel. The difference in class with winners like Barca, Real and Bayern got bigger, and the difference in class with far more modest clubs got smaller. This trend did not start after Ferguson, but during his reign. He could often mask it by grinding out a decent looking result or place in the final or semis, but the footballing strength has decreased.

 

[JPRouve]

What I mean is that in the early 2000's United would be among the favorites and considered to be almost a certainty in the last 4 or 8. Since then United has not only been outplayed more than once, there were also struggles and even losses against clubs from Lille or Basel. The difference in class with winners like Barca, Real and Bayern got bigger, and the difference in class with far more modest clubs got smaller. This trend did not start after Ferguson, but during his reign. He could often mask it by grinding out a decent looking result or place in the final or semis, but the footballing strength has decreased.

What you are saying is only true since 2012.

 

[Stacks]

No it's not. Suppose it's some players instinct to hoof the ball forward as soon as an opponent comes within 5m, without looking around if a good pass is available? Playing on instinct is the worst way to play. If you spend too much time having to think on the field, then you will just have to work to make whatever you are doing to be a new habit. Instinct doesn't make sure players keep a good shape as a team, practice and thinking before running around the field like a headless chicken does.

That just means you are a shite, low quality player. The very best players in the world appear to play on instinct. Some even look like street footballers who try what ever they want when they want. Instinct all the way

 

[Stacks]

No, their flaws are very different.


If any of the active managers can claim to be a genius it is him. That doesn't garantuee anaything and things didn't work out, but that's because he didn't manage to get any consistency from this squad.

Simply not true.
Simply not true.
Every manager is dependent on the players, but LvG is the one who doesn't need the best players to perform. The last time Mourinho did something special was with Inter, since then he (slightly) underachieved and consequently got sacked twice. Mourinho is not only dependent on having superstars, he's also dependent on getting away with foul play, with slowing the game down, with a siege mentality of his players towards the referee to coerce him into giving cards, with himslef intimidating referee's and playing mind games. He's about getting unfair advantages. It works because of spineless referee's, especially in the PL, but that makes him very dependent on things going his way. If referee's for a change would applie the rules concerning asking for cards and sieging the referee and organizing brawls at the pitch tot waist time, one cornerstone of Mourinho's success would be gone.


We've all seen how motivated Chelsea was. The only thing LvG has to turn around is the consistency, there's little hope of that because it has happened to many times that after he seemed to have things turned around, the players fell back into either losing possession unnecessarily and panicking into long balls or overoptimistic passing, or dwelling and indecisive sideways passing. This has never happened before, once it clicked, it clicked for a long run of games. So it isn't working here, but at least it was a plan that could have worked.

People who think we're rich so we can buy a world class squad are in denial, just as well as people who think it is a world class squad just because it's Manchester United. Or that United will claim it's place among Europe's elite just because of it's size. But the fact is that United has been clinging on by the fingernails to Europe's elite for more than 10 years and that was with Ferguson. So United will not only have to prove that it can be a top club without Ferguson, it will also have to prove it can step up a gear after Ferguson. With all the transfer bullshit twice a year, the top of Europe actually has become quite stable, you can't just go out and buy Muller, Neymar and Bale, they are not for sale. And if they are, there are clubs in much nicer cities who will pay a comparable salary. The question is not wheter they can do it on a rainy night in Stoke, but whether they want to.

Building a world class squad takes about 5 years, and you need to buy a lot of the world class players young, before they are world class. You'll need to have your own youth players, because the rivals have and they're already ahead. And because they're ahead and will stay ahead for a while in terms of squad quality, United needs to get an advantage from team play. As those are the things LvG is particularly good at, there's nothing reassuring or comforting about him beeing sacked. His successor will have the same massive job to do, and if he has to start all over again it will only get harder because time is not on our side. So the sensible thing would be to find another manager who happily works with young players, who has at least some use for the possession game and who builds teams stronger than the sum of it's part.

To me it appears he did. We consistently played slow, aimless, possession football with little attacking intent and an unwillingness to commit people forwards. By ratios I can't except 1 good performance in 6 and say, we just need to be consistent in those type of performances because even the likes of Stoke or Southampton will play an amazing match once in a while. I am loathe to say all Hughes or Koeman has to do is get them to be more consistent. We are pretty consistent. We consistently play in a manner that won't make an impact in the premier league.

2nd Bolded bit is so true that I wonder why we bother with these Neymar, Muller, Bale threads.

3rd Bolded part sounds like you are describing Pochettino, however I don't get the obsession with possession football as the last 2 champions league winners didn't stick to pure possession football.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Well, in one sense we've been steadily declining ever since Ronaldo left, not least if you look at the gap between United and the absolute best.

In the 2009 final we had some kind of chance. The match could've been a different one if we'd managed to capitalize on a lively start, and we had a genuine world beater in the side.

In 2011 we didn't have a hope in hell. Only a sheer fluke could've won us that match. And we got to the final cheaply enough too, if we're honest.

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

We've all seen how motivated Chelsea was. The only thing LvG has to turn around is the consistency, there's little hope of that because it has happened to many times that after he seemed to have things turned around, the players fell back into either losing possession unnecessarily and panicking into long balls or overoptimistic passing, or dwelling and indecisive sideways passing. This has never happened before, once it clicked, it clicked for a long run of games. So it isn't working here, but at least it was a plan that could have worked.

People who think we're rich so we can buy a world class squad are in denial, just as well as people who think it is a world class squad just because it's Manchester United. Or that United will claim it's place among Europe's elite just because of it's size. But the fact is that United has been clinging on by the fingernails to Europe's elite for more than 10 years and that was with Ferguson. So United will not only have to prove that it can be a top club without Ferguson, it will also have to prove it can step up a gear after Ferguson. With all the transfer bullshit twice a year, the top of Europe actually has become quite stable, you can't just go out and buy Muller, Neymar and Bale, they are not for sale. And if they are, there are clubs in much nicer cities who will pay a comparable salary. The question is not wheter they can do it on a rainy night in Stoke, but whether they want to.

Building a world class squad takes about 5 years, and you need to buy a lot of the world class players young, before they are world class. You'll need to have your own youth players, because the rivals have and they're already ahead. And because they're ahead and will stay ahead for a while in terms of squad quality, United needs to get an advantage from team play. As those are the things LvG is particularly good at, there's nothing reassuring or comforting about him beeing sacked. His successor will have the same massive job to do, and if he has to start all over again it will only get harder because time is not on our side. So the sensible thing would be to find another manager who happily works with young players, who has at least some use for the possession game and who builds teams stronger than the sum of it's part.

What if it's not about consistency? What if this is the best these players can do when they try to play possession football? Does Rooney look like a forward who will play with his back to goal and link up well with others? Does Mata look like a player who can take on defenders and provide end product? Does any of our attacking/creative players, besides Martial, look like the type who can break down defenses with their passing, off the ball movement and vision while they have defenders breathing down their necks? Does our defense look capable of getting the ball out of our third smoothly when being pressed? What if it's not about consistency anymore but about LvG trying to punch through a wall here?

The argument that the next manager should also be teaching possession tactics (or if there's not anyone available keep LvG in charge) is logical but i think you're using it to take a dig at Mourinho at the same time. Again i ask, what if these players could perform better under different tactics? If it's not time to question that after the team has failed miserably both in Europe and the League, when's the right time to do it? What if the next manager who teaches possession football needs more transfers than Mourinho (or anyone else) would in order to create a truly good side? And if continuity and not wasting any more time are the most important things, why did we sign LvG in the first place? Most of our players had only heard of possession football at Carrington until his arrival... Shouldn't we have continued searching for someone who likes to implement a more direct approach instead?

No one's asked of LvG to build a world class squad. His task is to create a well functioning side that will be able to perform possession football at an acceptable level. We have won less than 50% of our league games under him, we have 31 wins in 64 league games. Let that sink in for a while... So, my question is where should we draw a line here? Are these the foundations our first team is being built upon?

I don't want to argue with you because you try to make sense and i enjoy reading your views. My point is that we need to be more practical because a club may have to endure five barren years until a world class squad, with a mix of good buys and youth development, is assembled but this can never happen while you are out of all your season goals from January/February and while you are not able to offer to your future targets the bare minimum, Champions League football and (at least) a shot at the title once in a while. If we continue to act like it's all ok and it will all eventually click together, soon the world class talents we have, Martial and De Gea, will be looking for a way out of the club and we'll be back to square one. And it will become more difficult to replace them with other world class talent. When your whole world is being torn to pieces patience isn't always the right way. Sometimes you need to act and take matters into your hands. Right now we look like the guy who's just lost his house to the bank and he sits in his car thinking about the villa he will buy when he finds a good job.

You're talking about competing with the likes of Barcelona, Real Madrid and Bayern Munich when our team struggles to create half a chance against Big Sam's Sunderland. And 20 months into LvG's reign at OT, i'm afraid this is the issue that needs to be addressed, right here and right now.

 

[Cristiano Lell]

That people, not only as posters but as human beings, can lose faith in the Philosophy, is also part of the Philosophy.

So yes, and no.

 

[VP]

I wouldn't entertain Dr Funkenstein so much to be honest.

If I recall correctly, he's gone on the record saying LVG is a better manager than Sir Alex Ferguson.

 

[Stacks]

What if it's not about consistency? What if this is the best these players can do when they try to play possession football? Does Rooney look like a forward who will play with his back to goal and link up well with others? Does Mata look like a player who can take on defenders and provide end product? Does any of our attacking/creative players, besides Martial, looks like the type who can do break down defenses with their passing, off the ball movement and vision while they have defenders breathing down their necks? Does our defense look capable of getting the ball out of our third smoothly when being pressed? What if it's not about consistency anymore but about LvG trying to punch through a wall here?

The argument that the next manager should also be teaching possession tactics (or if there's not anyone available keep LvG in charge) is logical but i think you're using it to take a dig at Mourinho at the same time. Again i ask, what if these players could perform better under different tactics? If it's not time to question that after the team has failed miserably both in Europe and the League, when's the right time to do it? What if the next manager who teaches possession football needs more transfers than Mourinho (or anyone else) would in order to create a truly good side? And if continuity and not wasting any more time are the most important things, why did we sign LvG in the first place? Most of our players had only heard of possession football at Carrington until his arrival... Shouldn't we have continued searching for someone who likes to implement a more direct approach instead?

No one's asked of LvG to build a world class squad. His task is to create a well functioning side that will be able to perform possession football at an acceptable level. We have won less than 50% of our league games under him, we have 31 wins in 64 league games. Let that sink in for a while... So, my question is where should we draw a line here? Are these the foundations our first team is being built upon?

I don't want to argue with you because you try to make sense and i enjoy reading your views. My point is that we need to be more practical because a club may have to endure five barren years until a world class squad, with a mix of good buys and youth development, is assembled but this can never happen while you are out of all your season goals from January/February and while you are not able to offer to your future targets the bare minimum, Champions League football and (at least) a shot at the title once in a while. If we continue to act like it's all ok and it will all eventually click together, soon the world class talents we have, Martial and De Gea, will be looking for a way out of the club and we'll be back to square one. And it will become more difficult to replace them with other world class talent. When your whole world is being torn to pieces patience isn't always the right way. Sometimes you need to act and take matters into your hands. Right now we look like the guy who's just lost his house to the bank and he sits in his car thinking about the villa he will buy when he finds a good job.

You're talking about competing with the likes of Barcelona, Real Madrid and Bayern Munich when our team struggles to create half a chance against Big Sam's Sunderland. And 20 months into LvG's reign at OT, i'm afraid this is the issue that needs to be addressed, right here and right now.

fecking hell that hit me kinda hard. That Pathetic. That what I expect of a Palace manager or something

 

[adexkola]

What I mean is that in the early 2000's United would be among the favorites and considered to be almost a certainty in the last 4 or 8. Since then United has not only been outplayed more than once, there were also struggles and even losses against clubs from Lille or Basel. The difference in class with winners like Barca, Real and Bayern got bigger, and the difference in class with far more modest clubs got smaller. This trend did not start after Ferguson, but during his reign. He could often mask it by grinding out a decent looking result or place in the final or semis, but the footballing strength has decreased.

You do know that all those elite teams you mentioned had their own spells of mediocrity in Europe as late as 2008, right?

 

[Smores]

That people, not only as posters but as human beings, can lose faith in the Philosophy, is also part of the Philosophy.

So yes, and no.

You'd think he was teaching the players to use "The Force" the way some on here go on.

Seriously, football is not that complicated and managers can't hide behind complexity of method without results.

 

[Stacks]

You'd think he was teaching the players to use "The Force" the way some on here go on.

Seriously, football is not that complicated and managers can't hide behind complexity of method without results.

Try and see it from a different perspective. He has to retrain them from their erroneous ways. Him teaching players the philosophy is like detective Alonzo Harris training Jake on Training day. "you have to Unlearn that bullshit they teach you at the Academy. That shit'll get you killed," or something..........

 

[Esquire]

Great article by Daniel Harris (crediting #07 for posting it in his OP thread). LVG supporters try to understand this is how 99% of United supporters feel.

http://www.eurosport.co.uk/football...-cluelessness_sto5181131/story.shtml#uk-tw-po

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Philosophy is a process, but only as long as it's evidently not completed: Then it serves as a valid explanation. We're still cooking, not done yet, you can't expect the dish to be tasty before it's even out of the oven.

Similarly, if we do seem rather tasty, on occasion, in a manner seemingly at odds with what the uninitiated thought was philosophically sound, LVG's disciples will invariably come along to point out that we were wrong as usual: Winning and playing well is the philosophy. Of course. At such times it would seem the philosophy is both a process (an always incomplete one) and a formula for success which does work in the here-and-now.

Ask not why it is not possible to – simply – use this formula on a regular basis. It doesn't work like that. The moment you ask that question, the philosophy is no longer a formula but a very much unfinished process: The spell has been broken, if you will, by your impatience (and ignorance).

The first rule of Philosophy is that there is no Philosophy. Or rather, that Philosophy is an undefined method that takes an indefinite amount of time to implement. This works well for LVG's disciples, one could say. It doesn't work nearly as well for LVG himself, though.

 

[K2K]

So its just Funkenstein left? Where's Santiago? He was more funny and more quotable to say the least.

 

[Mciahel Goodman]

But the fact is that United has been clinging on by the fingernails to Europe's elite for more than 10 years and that was with Ferguson.

We reached three finals in four years. With semis and quarters in between those years.

Madrid failed to reach the last 16 for a decade or something before Mourinho. So how do you class elite?

 

[Mciahel Goodman]

You do know that all those elite teams you mentioned had their own spells of mediocrity in Europe as late as 2008, right?

Real Madrid were nonexistent on the European stage for a decade, Barca were inconsistent and Bayern didn't do much after '01.

It's an astonishing claim.

 

[Santiago_KinderBueno]

So its just Funkenstein left? Where's Santiago? He was more funny and more quotable to say the least.

I'm here hun x

 

[K2K]

We reached three finals in four years. With semis and quarters in between those years.

Madrid failed to reach the last 16 for a decade or something before Mourinho. So how do you class elite?

And Bayern, in the period between 2000-2010 had only gone past the quarters just three times. Who are this other elite teams?

 

[JPRouve]

And Bayern, in the period between 2000-2010 had only gone past the quarters just three times. Who are this other elite teams?

United, Chelsea and Milan.

 

[Orange]

That just means you are a shite, low quality player.

Exactly, because that player would play on instinct and therefore doesn't make the correct choices. That player would not play on instinct because he's shit, it's the other way around, as all of his other attributes could still be good.

The very best players in the world appear to play on instinct. Some even look like street footballers who try what ever they want when they want. Instinct all the way

Appear is the good word. Why do we think players as Xavi and Pirlo are good? Because they always seem to make the correct choice. Sometimes they keep the ball for a while in order to let players make a run and then give the pass, sometimes if opportunity arises they play another player in straight away. What sets these guys apart is not only technical ability, because many players have good technique. It's their ability to think on their feet. For the same reason we think that Depay is currently shit, while his instinct tells him to take on players, however since he's currently in bad form he cannot get past them. He still gives in to his instinct, which makes him a bad player currently.

 

[Adebesi]

fecking hell that hit me kinda hard. That Pathetic. That what I expect of a Palace manager or something

Yes me too. Winning less than 50% of the time really underlines the scale of our demise in the last few years.

 

[Munich_1958]

LVG has did some or maybe alot of good ground worK, i have stated this before. From clearing out deadwood to bleeding in the youth and not to forgot bringing in some of the best youth in football IE. Memphis, Martial, Shaw ect.. Maybe credit could be passed to the board for those decisions but its still some of the positives in the last 3 years of torment, but also you could say he cleared to much deadwood without replacing them which is starting to show how weak in depth we are now.

But were it really ended for me is when LVG was taking us backwards and when he was sticking to his guns even though they were clearly failing week in week out, I started to actually believe he wanted his early payday, he was making decisions on the pitch that would baffle even the thick headed folk and then his statements of failure and blasting players like Schweinsteiger, its as if he wanted this to end, he has lost his fight and its rubbing off on the players, he has all eyes on retirement.

 

[sunama]

Believe it or not, that's how they should be playing. No matter how much you prepare for a game, shite happens, and that's when you need to react to your instinct and play the game. Maybe that is the main problem

So you think that every one of our 10 outfield players is unable to think or play with instinct?
That doesn't sound right to me.
Di Maria definitely played with instinct (he always does, all flair players do) and he got rid of him within 1 year.
If you can't make use of Di Maria, in a team which struggles to score goals, the manager deserves to take serious flack.
Scoring 1 goal/game, relying on OG, deflections, lucky goals, penalties. This is basically MUFC, right now and this cannot be what any fan wants to see.

 

[sunama]

LVG has did some or maybe alot of good ground worK, i have stated this before. From clearing out deadwood to bleeding in the youth and not to forgot bringing in some of the best youth in football IE. Memphis, Martial, Shaw ect..

Martial - yes, credit goes for him for that one.
Memphis - this guy is a bench warmer and nothing to be proud of. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to be working out. Last year, when Di Maria came off the bench, he would do an assist and contribute. Memphis contributes nothing.
Shaw - this deal had already been done before LVG got here.

I do admit that he did get rid of the deadwood, in ruthless fashion.

 

[Mciahel Goodman]

Martial - yes, credit goes for him for that one.
Memphis - this guy is a bench warmer and nothing to be proud of. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to be working out. Last year, when Di Maria came off the bench, he would do an assist and contribute. Memphis contributes nothing.
Shaw - this deal had already been done before LVG got here.

I do admit that he did get rid of the deadwood, in ruthless fashion.

Which was great (I was a fan of every player we shipped out under van Gaal), but he never replaced them. That is what has cost us. If you can't replace these players then it's best to just hold on to them.

 

[sunama]

For the same reason we think that Depay is currently shit, while his instinct tells him to take on players, however since he's currently in bad form he cannot get past them. He still gives in to his instinct, which makes him a bad player currently.

With regards to Depay, has he ever gone past a man? In a MUFC shirt, I've not seen him do this.
When a player is in season-long bad form, I think you have to accept that its not bad form. He just isn't cut out to play in that team/league.
For his own good, he should try to do his best under Mourinho next season. If his poor form continues, he should change to a different league.
I'd definitely give him one more season though - under a new manager, he may spring into life.

 

[ghagua]

So you think that every one of our 10 outfield players is unable to think or play with instinct?
That doesn't sound right to me.
Di Maria definitely played with instinct (he always does, all flair players do) and he got rid of him within 1 year.
If you can't make use of Di Maria, in a team which struggles to score goals, the manager deserves to take serious flack.
Scoring 1 goal/game, relying on OG, deflections, lucky goals, penalties. This is basically MUFC, right now and this cannot be what any fan wants to see.

Saying that LvG has fecked the instinct out of these players and has them thinking way too much.

 

[Munich_1958]

Martial - yes, credit goes for him for that one.
Memphis - this guy is a bench warmer and nothing to be proud of. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to be working out. Last year, when Di Maria came off the bench, he would do an assist and contribute. Memphis contributes nothing.
Shaw - this deal had already been done before LVG got here.

I do admit that he did get rid of the deadwood, in ruthless fashion.

well Memphis we didnt expect to be bad but was an exciting prospect when we bought him, I hope he gets another year under a new manager Just to see if things changes

yes shaw wasnt his capture which is why we have the board to thank

 

[Mciahel Goodman]

Saying that LvG has fecked the instinct out of these players and has them thinking way too much.

Someone will correct me if I'm wrong here, no doubt. But Mourinho is known for wanting his attacking players to put in a defensive shift -- the reason he got rid of Mata. He usually allows one or two players more freedom than the rest, but they have to be top quality to deserve it (Hazard, Ronaldo, etc). Only Martial would fit that bill for us, so I can't see Memphis thriving under Jose, unless he drastically improves.

 

[K2K]

United, Chelsea and Milan.

He says that United were falling behind Europe's elite. We performed just as well as Chelsea and Milan during that period. Only Barca performed better , and they are arguably the greatest team in history.

I cant comprehend how someone can have a dig at that team then defend the nonsense that Van Gaal has served up here, especially seeing as we got knocked out in an easy UCL group with the same charlatan in charge.