Who still has faith in The Philosophy? / LVG Supporters' Thread

sunama said:
You want Giggs to be the manager because you were a fan of his, when he was a player?
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Yeah - I feel the club is loosing some of that spirit which defines us - so I'd like to see Giggs given the opportunity.

As I say I can understand other people feeling differently but equally I'm entitled to an opinion and for me playing attacking, attractive football and giving our young players a chance are all things that I personally value highly and whilst trophies, finance and perceived status of the club etc are important to some they are secondary for me and I think Giggs is worth giving a go because he ticks the boxes of understanding the club and the philosophy that has made us successful.
 
sunama said:
But do you feel 4th place is acceptable?
Since when did 4th place become the all important target for MUFC?
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I dont care if we finish 2nd of 4th but Id like us to qualify for Europe.
I started supporting in the Early 80's so I certainly don't have a sense that we are entitled to win and its a lesson many fans who have known nothing other than success over a prolonged period under SAF will have to learn.
 
sun_tzu said:
Yeah - I feel the club is loosing some of that spirit which defines us - so I'd like to see Giggs given the opportunity.

As I say I can understand other people feeling differently but equally I'm entitled to an opinion and for me playing attacking, attractive football and giving our young players a chance are all things that I personally value highly and whilst trophies, finance and perceived status of the club etc are important to some they are secondary for me and I think Giggs is worth giving a go because he ticks the boxes of understanding the club and the philosophy that has made us successful.
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that's nice, but 4 4 2 with wingers didn't make us successful. Ferguson did
 
sun_tzu said:
Yeah - I feel the club is loosing some of that spirit which defines us - so I'd like to see Giggs given the opportunity.

As I say I can understand other people feeling differently but equally I'm entitled to an opinion and for me playing attacking, attractive football and giving our young players a chance are all things that I personally value highly and whilst trophies, finance and perceived status of the club etc are important to some they are secondary for me and I think Giggs is worth giving a go because he ticks the boxes of understanding the club and the philosophy that has made us successful.
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There's no evidence Giggs understands what made us successful any more than a tree understands photosynthesis. And even if he does understand it, that doesnt mean he has the character to implement those ideas.

Im not saying anything negative about Giggs here. Im not saying he doesnt understand, or doesnt have the character to be a manager. Only that there is absolutely no evidence either way.
 
sun_tzu said:
Yeah - I feel the club is loosing some of that spirit which defines us - so I'd like to see Giggs given the opportunity.

As I say I can understand other people feeling differently but equally I'm entitled to an opinion and for me playing attacking, attractive football and giving our young players a chance are all things that I personally value highly and whilst trophies, finance and perceived status of the club etc are important to some they are secondary for me and I think Giggs is worth giving a go because he ticks the boxes of understanding the club and the philosophy that has made us successful.
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If trophies and status of the club are secondary to you, it makes sense why you would want Giggs as the manager.
 
sun_tzu said:
Yeah - I feel the club is loosing some of that spirit which defines us - so I'd like to see Giggs given the opportunity.

As I say I can understand other people feeling differently but equally I'm entitled to an opinion and for me playing attacking, attractive football and giving our young players a chance are all things that I personally value highly and whilst trophies, finance and perceived status of the club etc are important to some they are secondary for me and I think Giggs is worth giving a go because he ticks the boxes of understanding the club and the philosophy that has made us successful.
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Ideally he is the one I would most like to see as manager

Id love to see if he could do it. But its such a risk...

A few months ago I was onboard with taking that risk but Im not sure I am anymore
 
If Giggs is qualified to do this particular job, then why not Scholes or Solksjaer? It can't be because Giggs has sat at the feet of Moyes and Van Gaal, neither of whom were fully up to the job.

Giggs may be an outstanding United manager someday, but he needs the experience of managing another club first and lifting it up before he's actually qualified to do the job. Feeling the weight of responsibility alone is quite a different thing than watching it get done and taking careful notes.
 
Spock said:
If Giggs is qualified to do this particular job, then why not Scholes or Solksjaer? It can't be because Giggs has sat at the feet of Moyes and Van Gaal, neither of whom were fully up to the job.

Giggs may be an outstanding United manager someday, but he needs the experience of managing another club first and lifting it up before he's actually qualified to do the job. Feeling the weight of responsibility alone is quite a different thing than watching it get done and taking careful notes.
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I feel this sentiment has been echoed through out the thread. Trainee 1st time managers can succeed from time to time. Zidane may well pull it out of the bag with Real Madrid what with them 1 point behind and in the Champions league semi vs City. Imagine he does the double! Unfortunately United resemble a club that is drifting aimlessly, not quite crisis levels but certainly we just feel a bit like a confused club. Don't get me wrong, all clubs have issues. We provide nowhere near the platform for a 1st time manager to ease his way in and learn hwo to do the job as there is no grace period here and there are too many jobs for him to do.
 
Stacks said:
I feel this sentiment has been echoed through out the thread. Trainee 1st time managers can succeed from time to time. Zidane may well pull it out of the bag with Real Madrid what with them 1 point behind and in the Champions league semi vs City. Imagine he does the double! Unfortunately United resemble a club that is drifting aimlessly, not quite crisis levels but certainly we just feel a bit like a confused club. Don't get me wrong, all clubs have issues. We provide nowhere near the platform for a 1st time manager to ease his way in and learn hwo to do the job as there is no grace period here and there are too many jobs for him to do.
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Agreed on all points. Zidane may prove to be the exception, not the rule. But I hold the view that managing United is more difficult than Real, as Real can easily attract the top players on the planet and we, unfortunately, cannot. The EPL is a much more competitive league than La Liga, which is not to say that our top two clubs are stronger than their two clubs.

I understand Giggsy's desire to go straight into the job. After all, he takes a massive risk managing a smaller club and failing at it. Ole's experience is instructive in this regard. But he needs to earn his stripes a notch or two below United and come back to Old Trafford, if that is the will of the football gods.
 
sun_tzu said:
Yeah - I feel the club is loosing some of that spirit which defines us - so I'd like to see Giggs given the opportunity.

As I say I can understand other people feeling differently but equally I'm entitled to an opinion and for me playing attacking, attractive football and giving our young players a chance are all things that I personally value highly and whilst trophies, finance and perceived status of the club etc are important to some they are secondary for me and I think Giggs is worth giving a go because he ticks the boxes of understanding the club and the philosophy that has made us successful.
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Why don't you want Roberto Martinez. Rephrase.. Would you be happy if we employed Roberto Martinez?
 
I was playing Football Manager 2012 today (it is my favorite one and I love having Giggs and Scholes) and Chelsea hired Louis van Gaal. I clicked on him out of curiosity and Christ.. His stats!

Pretty much a 20 for everything. He's an absolute legend on it!
 
Some people are using the example of Zidane (ZZ).
I just thought I'd highlight that ZZ has managed the Madrid B team for 1-2 years, similar to what Pep did at Barca.
Giggs has not done this.
So, I don't feel that Zidane or Pep are comparable with Giggs.
Let Giggs manage our U21 team for 2 seasons and if he does well, he can manage our first team.
 
sun_tzu said:
Yeah - I feel the club is loosing some of that spirit which defines us - so I'd like to see Giggs given the opportunity.

As I say I can understand other people feeling differently but equally I'm entitled to an opinion and for me playing attacking, attractive football and giving our young players a chance are all things that I personally value highly and whilst trophies, finance and perceived status of the club etc are important to some they are secondary for me and I think Giggs is worth giving a go because he ticks the boxes of understanding the club and the philosophy that has made us successful.
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From what I understand Giggs (and Rooney) are the connection between LVG and the players.
So, with regards to team spirit, Giggs is actually doing what he can right now.

If Giggs quit in disgust at what we are seeing on the pitch, this would make me respect him more. It would show that this 1-0 football we are currently seeing, is not what he stands for.
However, given that he is staying and not speaking out against this 1-0 football, he is complicit and in agreement that this is the right way forward.

If you are looking for attacking football and a complete change to what we are seeing, we'll need a completely new management team. Bar the GK coach who has done a fantastic job, the entire coaching staff and manage need to be changed.
Also, don't expect an over night change. The new coaching team will need to coach the fear out of our players and this may take a full season.
 
sunama said:
Some people are using the example of Zidane (ZZ).
I just thought I'd highlight that ZZ has managed the Madrid B team for 1-2 years, similar to what Pep did at Barca.
Giggs has not done this.
So, I don't feel that Zidane or Pep are comparable with Giggs.
Let Giggs manage our U21 team for 2 seasons and if he does well, he can manage our first team.
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I disagree. Managing reserve team players and kids proves little to me. I don't even know who our Under 21 manager is. I wouldn't want Giggs or any manager as United manager on the basis of Under 21 performance where Januzaj and Pereira try to score corners in games and the only ego you have to manage is Odegaard.
 
sunama said:
Some people are using the example of Zidane (ZZ).
I just thought I'd highlight that ZZ has managed the Madrid B team for 1-2 years, similar to what Pep did at Barca.
Giggs has not done this.
So, I don't feel that Zidane or Pep are comparable with Giggs.
Let Giggs manage our U21 team for 2 seasons and if he does well, he can manage our first team.
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That's still not the same. The B Teams are in the second division of Spanish football, under 21s are in all honestly nowhere near that level. Giggs has to leave and get experience elsewhere
 
Stacks said:
I disagree. Managing reserve team players and kids proves little to me. I don't even know who our Under 21 manager is. I wouldn't want Giggs or any manager as United manager on the basis of Under 21 performance where Januzaj and Pereira try to score corners in games and the only ego you have to manage is Odegaard.
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i think that's being a bit harsh on warren joyce. he's done a truly fantastic job for us, and should definitely be considered for a promotion somewhere in the premier league. maybe not us, but a team would do well to try him on for size.

to be a regular poster on a message board and to profess to not even knowing who our U21 manager is, i find that a bit odd. especially someone as respected and and successful as joyce.
 
Spock said:
Agreed on all points. Zidane may prove to be the exception, not the rule. But I hold the view that managing United is more difficult than Real, as Real can easily attract the top players on the planet and we, unfortunately, cannot. The EPL is a much more competitive league than La Liga, which is not to say that our top two clubs are stronger than their two clubs.

I understand Giggsy's desire to go straight into the job. After all, he takes a massive risk managing a smaller club and failing at it. Ole's experience is instructive in this regard. But he needs to earn his stripes a notch or two below United and come back to Old Trafford, if that is the will of the football gods.
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The problem that I have with united, with them not having the luxury Madrid and Barcelona have in terms of not attracting the best players for many reasons, they are not smart in the transfer market allot of the time, going for signings that are not only a waist of time, but wasting the fans time, and has we go into the new season under equipped to challenge, and its another season lost. And many question why we have won the european cup only 3 times, its idiot decisions like this has reason why we are 3 time European champions, and some of the better clubs have more numbers under their belt. That has defiantly been the case since summer 2011 onwards, even 2009-11 the way the transfer business has been handled, has been nothing but a joke
 
Stacks said:
I disagree. Managing reserve team players and kids proves little to me. I don't even know who our Under 21 manager is.
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That would be Warren Joyce.
He's the guy who trained the likes of Rashford, Lingaard, CBJ, Mensah, etc.
You remember that Arsenal game when we attacked like mad - that was Warren Joyce's imprint. At that time, LVG did not have time to introduce the players to his own (1-0) philosophy, so he had to trust what Joyce had taught the youngsters, gave them instructions and took a chance.
Many fans wanted LVG sacked and for Joyce to take over until the Summer.
 
caisenma said:
i think that's being a bit harsh on warren joyce. he's done a truly fantastic job for us, and should definitely be considered for a promotion somewhere in the premier league. maybe not us, but a team would do well to try him on for size.

to be a regular poster on a message board and to profess to not even knowing who our U21 manager is, i find that a bit odd. especially someone as respected and and successful as joyce.
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I thought he just did the youth teams
 
Pochettino and LVG have both been at their clubs for two seasons.

Pochettino hasn't even spent half of what Van Gaal has.

Spurs are thriving and we are sinking, yet people will still defend Van Gaal and try and claim that he is laying foundations.

It's all utter bollocks! The guy has been a complete and utter shambles.
 
I refer you to the spineless capitulation over 2 legs vs. our rivals Liverpool in the Europa League.

</philosphy>
 
Garethw said:
Pochettino and LVG have both been at their clubs for two seasons.

Pochettino hasn't even spent half of what Van Gaal has.

Spurs are thriving and we are sinking, yet people will still defend Van Gaal and try and claim that he is laying foundations.

It's all utter bollocks! The guy has been a complete and utter shambles.
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they play with energy , for each other and their mgr , they play like they've met each other before. = team. lvg has none of that and won't. alli has more goals than any of our strikers. he's 19 as well. they believe in the manager.
 
mu77 said:
they play with energy , for each other and their mgr , they play like they've met each other before. = team. lvg has none of that and won't. alli has more goals than any of our strikers. he's 19 as well. they believe in the manager.
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Yes they believe in the manager, even more importantly they all know what to do for the manager and each other. the result of a well coached team and a clueless team was evident when we played Spurs.
 
It'd be a gread way to part, if we were to win the FA cup.

After that, I no longer want to hear about his philosophy.
 
spwd said:
Sorry bud, I'm positive kb is a mod on the wum and wondered if he would be revealed by bringing the thread back up :lol:
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I always thought he was a wum, never suspected it would be a mod tho.
 
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