He won the League Cup though, he should get at least 3 years for that alone.
Who replaces Ten Hag?
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Not every manager is Fergie. He didn’t just win because we gave him time but because he was an extraordinary manager.If that was the case during Fergie's tenure we wouldn't have all the trophies he won, possibly still not having won the league this century.
Your post is an insult to his genius. His start was rough but he didn’t sokely win things cause he was given time.
If that were the case we should have just stuck with Moyes.
EtH is not the next Fergie. Potter won’t be. The manager after Potter won’t be. So stop pining for a long one era, it isn’t coming back.
EtH doesn’t deserve to keep his job based on his own current performance, what Fergie did decades ago has feck all to do with it.
In comparison to the Fergie period people are pining for the 2-3 years of culture change you’re suggesting is ‘short term’.
I’m not saying sack managers every year. I’m saying judge a managers performance on its own merits & if it isn’t good enough they should be removed from the post.
We’re the only fanbase that romanticises things like culture changes. Once we get the right people in place the culture will follow.
Sad news for you. Regardless of how good the culture gets Fergie isn’t walking back through those doors. We could remove all the squad & get in some good guys, we aren’t getting a 20 year manager so once a manager loses 10 in 26 as this one has it should signal something.
EtH didn’t walk into the same United Fergie did, comparing what we had 20 years ago to now is pointless.
I hope people stop rating managers based on FA Cup, League cup wins.
There is way too much luck at play - opposition, home vs away, and just a stroke of luck. League performance needs to be the barometer on which a manager is judged, and I dont care whether someone wins LC and FA Cup, if they finish outside top 4, they need to be replaced. (Ofcourse, before someone says, what about WHU or something like that, where you'd value these trophies a lot more)
There is way too much luck at play - opposition, home vs away, and just a stroke of luck. League performance needs to be the barometer on which a manager is judged, and I dont care whether someone wins LC and FA Cup, if they finish outside top 4, they need to be replaced. (Ofcourse, before someone says, what about WHU or something like that, where you'd value these trophies a lot more)
Agreed on all the points. What you look at is progression. Is the team better this year than last? This is the question they need to ask, and if the answer is no, then a big why this team is not better than last year? SAF is not walking through the door, sadly. As to the culture, all I can say, and it still baffles me, how is it that Martial is still even mentioned as being out of the first team? He emphasizes all that is wrong with this team. As long as players like him remain, you will have a culture issues. With a poor team you can handle losing on the skill metric, but not on work ethic. This team is losing on the work ethic, the skill is what holds them in games. Give ETH the season to finish out. As to who comes in, anyone's guess. Just make sure it is the right one to build a championship team, which means proper due diligence prior to hire.
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Only thing that should save his job is winning the league, at this point nothing else, so yeah. Scraping another top 4/5 with shit directionless football, or stumbling to an FA Cup wouldn't move me at all now. It's gone on too long, with too little to be positive about.
Saw something this morning about Tuchel wanting to be our next manager?
Hope we keep well away.
Hope we keep well away.
He at least stated that he feels more appreciated in England than in Germany and would like to manage there again. He also said something about wanting to manage in Spain some day. I don't think he said anything specific about United (at least not publicly), but it seems at least to be something he could generally imagine to do.
The trouble is, that these players have once again 'downed tools' because they don't like a Manager or his methods.
So fine, sack Ten Hag, bring in Potter, Tuchel or whoever else.
These players will raise their game for a few months, and everything will look rosy, until they decide that don't like him anymore, then we'll have the same lack of commitment that we have witnessed time and time again.
So personally, I honestly don't think it really matters who replaces Ten Hag, we are stuck in a Groundhog day.
God I hope we stay away from Tuchel. I don't think SJR will be stupid enough to go that way.
My 5 man initial shortlist would be:
Amorim
Di Zerbi
Nagelsmann
Gary O Neil
Lopetuegui
Graham Potter and Tuchel being so high in the running gives me nightmares.
My 5 man initial shortlist would be:
Amorim
Di Zerbi
Nagelsmann
Gary O Neil
Lopetuegui
Graham Potter and Tuchel being so high in the running gives me nightmares.
We have to act quickly because a lot of big clubs are in need of a new coach: Barcelona, Bayern, Liverpool, probably Chelsea soon, maybe Newcastle want to spend big on a good manager and Italian clubs who are always a few lost games away from sacking their coach.
Agree completely, we are in exactly same situation we were in with Ole where are just wasting time and money treading water with a manager who just isn’t up to the job of turning this around.
Unless he completely reinvents himself and fundamentally changes what he is trying to do we are just going around in a big circle. The one thing an incumbent manager should have as a selling point is continuity and building on what they’ve already done but we need to start from scratch again whether he stays or goes.
We have to believe the squad will be dramatically different in the 7 windows/3 years SjR spoke of.
I was sceptical of Ineos but given the positive & decisive moves being made off pitch I am confident we’ll see more transfer activity both in & out over the upcoming windows.
Given a lack of consistent playing style I doubt an EtH team full of Mounts, Onana’s & Antony’s would actually be doing much better.
EtH symbolises how poor Glazer hiring a have been.
I'm sure that the squad will be very different in 3 years, but I reckon that we will have been through another two Managers in that time as well...
I know it’s frowned on but so be it.I'm sure that the squad will be very different in 3 years, but I reckon that we will have been through another two Managers in that time as well...
I support Manchester United & in doing that I support the manager in charge at the time but not blindly.
If you told me we’d have a near world class squad in 7 windows but would cycle through 2 coaches, I’d take it.
Given the work that needs doing in the manager in charge is going to need to captivate ala Klopp if he’s going to bear the fruits of any success.
Why? Winning trophies is what it’s all about.
This is a very closed minded POV. It’s not excuses, it’s mitigating factors. I’d say long term injuries to ALL our key players is a primary reason for poor performance this season, which is borne out by good results when those players have been fit.
You have to look at the season in context and consider all factors. You can’t just lump it all on the manager and look for a quick fix. There isn’t one. We are going to have to suck it up and do the hard yards to get back to the elite. It’s not an instant thing.
If it had have been yesterday we won it then maybe. The fact is we are worse than last year and we are getting further away from being an improving team. TH has lost the plot with his post match comments. If he genuinely thinks we were the better team then he needs evaluating by a therapist!
What are they doing in training as well? We only have a game a week mainly, so in theory we should be coached a lot more, but as I said, we are worse than last year.
Out of all the club managers outside the so called top 6, I rate Gary O'Neil the most. Wolves were tipped for relegation this season and now there's a real chance they finish higher than us, playing better stuff than us to boot.
This summer is gonna be a managerial merry-go-round and our project is more aligned with an up and comer like O'Neil rather than an elite name, plus O'Neil strikes me more as a Big Jim signing as opposed to a Tuchel type signing.
This summer is gonna be a managerial merry-go-round and our project is more aligned with an up and comer like O'Neil rather than an elite name, plus O'Neil strikes me more as a Big Jim signing as opposed to a Tuchel type signing.
Almost 15 teams in the league play better than us. It has nothing with the players, the fact the team and bench is not good enough. It's only pure coaching.
I am not sure that we can finish in the first 6/7 this year, but I would keep Ten Hag, just because there are no obvious choice out there but my faith in him just vanished little by little.
I am not sure that we can finish in the first 6/7 this year, but I would keep Ten Hag, just because there are no obvious choice out there but my faith in him just vanished little by little.
This has been a telltale sign since last season when the teams form dropped off a cliff. Yet under Erik's tenure it cannot be stated that this team has ever played well consistently for a sustained period which is always the foundation of any successful manager / club in performances.
I would also keep Erik until the end of the season. If the club has any ambition they would align a replacement for summer.
im starting to lose my patience with ETH, but still would like to see how he does with a proper structure.
i dont want Tuchel.
I am confused by those who say no to Potter because "he was simply propped up by the structure at Brighton." If we are bringing in the main person who was responsible for that structure in Ashworth, wouldn't that mean Potter has a good chance of success here?
i typically do not want a manager that plays 3 at the back.
i dont want Tuchel.
I am confused by those who say no to Potter because "he was simply propped up by the structure at Brighton." If we are bringing in the main person who was responsible for that structure in Ashworth, wouldn't that mean Potter has a good chance of success here?
i typically do not want a manager that plays 3 at the back.
Things don't scale directly like that though, do they?
I think one of the biggest flaws EtH has is he lacks the charisma and force of personality you often need to coach at the biggest clubs. Even if your tactical theories are sound (Which is questionable with both these guys anyway) then that's going to hold you back when you need to motivate players through difficult patches, like we've had most of his season with injuries.
I think Potter would very much have the same problem as EtH if he was appointed, and I hope we avoid him.
We won’t go after Gary O’Neil. We will appoint a manager that has won things.
It feels a bit like the striker market just when we needed a new #9. Not much out there, and the few elite ones that are are unavailable (Kane and Osimhen for strikers, the likes of Pep and Klopp for managers).
For the striker, we took a good gamble on someone who was far from the finished article but was already good and with a high ceiling of potential.
That's not really an ideal choice as manager. Whoever comes in has to be immediately ready. And I'm not aware of too many top quality, experienced and available managers out there.
I don't see the equivalent of a Conte, Mourinho, Van Gaal type coming in. I think we'll either stick with ETH for another season and see how it progresses with the new backroom regime, or we'd have to take a gamble on a youngish coach already doing well at a certain level club but who hasn't yet had the chance at a 'big' club. The De Zerbi, Alonso types. Not sure which they'd go for (not having a great knowledge of up and coming European managers) but that's a big gamble to take. However the timing means that does seem to be the market we'd most likely be in if we do decide on a change.
For the striker, we took a good gamble on someone who was far from the finished article but was already good and with a high ceiling of potential.
That's not really an ideal choice as manager. Whoever comes in has to be immediately ready. And I'm not aware of too many top quality, experienced and available managers out there.
I don't see the equivalent of a Conte, Mourinho, Van Gaal type coming in. I think we'll either stick with ETH for another season and see how it progresses with the new backroom regime, or we'd have to take a gamble on a youngish coach already doing well at a certain level club but who hasn't yet had the chance at a 'big' club. The De Zerbi, Alonso types. Not sure which they'd go for (not having a great knowledge of up and coming European managers) but that's a big gamble to take. However the timing means that does seem to be the market we'd most likely be in if we do decide on a change.
Amorim would be our Hojlund equivalent. I think we are going to go after Tuchel, which is basically an equivalent of getting someone like Lewandowski - might still be quality but some doubts exist due to his recent struggles. Potter being a Calvert Lewin, it can pop but chances are slim.
Yeah, good point about Amorim. He's one that I should have remembered.
I like your Tuchel comparison. He's another that I'd class alongside Conte and Mourinho - I'm not sure that we'll go down the route of those types of managers who seem to be doing the rounds with a couple of years here and there before being sacked and don't seem to be on an upward trajectory at all.
I think if we do opt to move on from ETH, given the lack of experienced managers in the elite group that's realistic options, then I think they'll probably go for a younger manager that's on the up such as Alonso (difficult with his Liverpool connection), Amorim, Nagelsmann, etc.
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Just like the other 4 managers who've won things and did so well here. Maybe it would do us some good to stop relying primarily on trophy count and assess managers more on their philisophies and ways of approaching the game. Our best manager in the post-Fergie era was the manager who won the least before joining us.
I'd get him gone if we go out the cup in midweek. Stick Steve McClaren in charge for the rest of the season while we start approaching top managers for the big gig in the summer
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I can see INEOS lining up Naglesmann. The rumours have already started.
Maybe this would have been the obvious approach before the INEOS era. It's a long-term project for someone who'd be willing to work with the board from the ground up. I personally don't see Tuchel having the temperament for that, on account of it all unravelling at Chelsea and now Bayern at the slightest whiff of trouble.
Expect interest in Tuchel will increase if/as Bayern go deeper into the CL
So we should probably pull the trigger on Ten Hag when the seasons over next week, so we don't have to worry about accusations of undermining the manager if we start negotiations with potential replacements.
Nobody can coach injured players. Nobody can coach players who are suspended, away for personal or disciplinary reasons and nobody can coach players who don’t want to be at the club.
The context of this season must be considered in this decision, it’s too knee jerk to just blame the manager after every loss.
I’m quietly confident it will be a good replacement if we can get Ashworth onboard prior to it. De Zerbi will probably get a good look as City are supposed to be enamored with him but Pep is adamant at staying longer so Berrada can work on poaching him.
They've been analysing United on Monday night football. My word, we are truly dreadful.
He sanctioned the signing of Antony for £90m and Onana for £45m. His marquee signing was on the bench at home vs Fulham on Saturday, and his goalkeeper was that dreadful there's a convincing argument he was the major reason our exit from the Champions League.
Now I actually don't mind Onana, but the amount we paid to go sideways or even backwards is disgusting to me as a Man Utd fan.
And I can't help feeling - I wonder if anyone else feels the same actually - that the main reasons that Sancho and Pellestri have been sent off on loans is partly because they weren't Ten Hags signings, they were Solskjaers. Ten Hag has shown a lot of loyalty to his players, fair enough, but they've not been good enough, and that's on him. Blaming injuries to forward players when you've loaned out two forward players is also a bit batshit. If we are looking to be playing any decent sort of football, we're not going to do it with his players, it would seem.
We aren’t close to contending for the biggest trophies. Sacking ETH and bringing in a guy like Potter just doesn’t go with the timeline we are on. Let Sir Jim and INEOS build properly before making a change at manager.
Neville suspects the hierarchy may have already made a decision on Ten Hag.
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