Who replaces Ten Hag?

Status
Not open for further replies.
MancunianAngels said:
He could go into this summer with two Champions League titles behind him. There's clearly something there.
Click to expand...

Or more likely just 1.

And despite managing guaranteed league winners in France and Germany he’s fecking managed to not win the league in 1 of his 3 PSG seasons and in 50% of his Bayern seasons.

His football is boring as feck and he’ll never be a top league manager. Not sure he’s worth the punt over 1 CL fluke.
 
"De Zerbi for me" is becoming the new "Gerrard/Lampard was better than Scholes" - whoever says it, I'm going to completely disregard anything they say about football from now on.

I have a feeling a clear outstanding candidate will emerge next month
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
Or more likely just 1.

And despite managing guaranteed league winners in France and Germany he’s fecking managed to not win the league in 1 of his 3 PSG seasons and in 50% of his Bayern seasons.

His football is boring as feck and he’ll never be a top league manager. Not sure he’s worth the punt over 1 CL fluke.
Click to expand...
He won the league with PSG in both of his full seasons.
He lost the league this season against one of the greatest ever teams in the Bundesliga history.
He managed the second-highest points total in the history of Borussia Dortmund.

He is a better league manager than you give him credit for. Still often boring, that's true.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
Or more likely just 1.

And despite managing guaranteed league winners in France and Germany he’s fecking managed to not win the league in 1 of his 3 PSG seasons and in 50% of his Bayern seasons.

His football is boring as feck and he’ll never be a top league manager. Not sure he’s worth the punt over 1 CL fluke.
Click to expand...

His Dortmund side were great to watch to be fair.
 
stefan92 said:
He won the league with PSG in both of his full seasons.
He lost the league this season against one of the greatest ever teams in the Bundesliga history.
He managed the second-highest points total in the history of Borussia Dortmund.

He is a better league manager than you give him credit for. Still often boring, that's true.
Click to expand...

He managed 50% of that 3rd season and got sacked, at that point he had a worse point per game rate than Poch ended the season with. So yes, he fecked up one league in France.
His Chelsea league performances were meh.
As for Bayern, regardless of Leverkusen, he’s on 66 points after 30 games, just 3 ahead of Stuttgart. It’s yet another extremely underwhelming league season for him.

He’s not a man however you paint it, to do a Klopp and go toe to toe with Guardiola, he’s never even produced anything as impressive as Arteta these past two seasons.
 
didz said:
His Dortmund side were great to watch to be fair.
Click to expand...

Cause they still had Klopp in them, his team and his football have gotten steadily worse with every season post taking over from Klopp.

Since & including Dortmund it’s been a steady trend, the longer he remains at a club, the worse the league performances.

Year 1 Dortmund: 2nd 77 pts
Year 2: 3rd 64 pts

PSG 1: 1st, 91 pts
2: 1st, covid short
3: less said the better

Chelsea 1: 3rd 74 pts
2: less said the better, awful start and fired

And now the same story at Bayern.
 
Last edited:
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
As for Bayern, regardless of Leverkusen, he’s on 66 points after 30 games, just 3 ahead of Stuttgart. It’s yet another extremely underwhelming league season for him.
Click to expand...
It's still an improvement over last season. Also Stuttgart is the best ever third placed team in the history of the league at this point. Bayern sit in a sandwich of exceptional sides this season, and yes you can use as an argument against Tuchel that HE should be the manager of one of the two exceptional teams, that's fair. But it's also not the case that he is getting terrible results.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
Cause they still had Klopp in them, his team and his football have gotten steadily worse with every season post taking over from Klopp.

Since & including Dortmund it’s been a steady trend, the longer he remains at a club, the worse the league performances.
Click to expand...
A Klopp team that barely scraped to 6th in Klopp's final season and that Tuchel massively improved in regard of possession play.

Things went down there for him after someone tried to murder his whole team.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
Cause they still had Klopp in them, his team and his football have gotten steadily worse with every season post taking over from Klopp.

Since & including Dortmund it’s been a steady trend, the longer he remains at a club, the worse the league performances.

Year 1 Dortmund: 2nd 77 pts
Year 2: 3rd 64 pts

PSG 1: 1st, 91 pts
2: 1st, covid short
3: less said the better

Chelsea 1: 3rd 74 pts
2: less said the better, awful start and fired

And now the same story at Bayern.
Click to expand...

Not that I want to be a defender of Tuchel but isn't some of the Dortmund drop off caused by selling/losing most of their best players we bought a few of them
 
Gavinb33 said:
Not that I want to be a defender of Tuchel but isn't some of the Dortmund drop off caused by selling/losing most of their best players we bought a few of them
Click to expand...

Well ignore Dortmund, tell me just one club he’s improved?
Every single club it’s the same story, the longer he stays, the worse they do.

i’m actually amazed at this point that anyone rates him consideringly he was massively responsible for PSG not winning a title and if it hadn’t been for Dortmund fecking up on the last day last year he would have managed Bayern Munich for two seasons and not even have a title.

add to that how it ended for him at Chelsea and it’s a real struggle to remember any time in the last decade where he seems to have done a decent job, of except for the Champions League win which came just a few months in at Chelsea and is considered by pretty much everyone is a bizarre fluke.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
Cause they still had Klopp in them, his team and his football have gotten steadily worse with every season post taking over from Klopp.

Since & including Dortmund it’s been a steady trend, the longer he remains at a club, the worse the league performances.
Click to expand...

I don't think "they still had Klopp in them" is at all a fair argument given the position he left them in, the immediate change in style of play, and the change of players to facilitate a more controlled game.

Can't argue with the worsening league performances year-on-year, but I'd be surprised if anybody sees him as a long term hire. He does fall out with people everywhere and, contrary to some claims in this thread, that very much does include his players.
 
Surprising how far Tuchel's star has fallen. Most people agreed Chelsea were wrong to fire him, he was considered one of the top three managers in this league, and he's now in a CL final.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
Well ignore Dortmund, tell me just one club he’s improved?
Every single club it’s the same story, the longer he stays, the worse they do.
Click to expand...

He got PSG to a CL final, the only manager to do so since they got taken over and they’ve had some top managers in that time. He then won the thing with Chelsea when everyone had City as heavy favourites for that game. Everyone knows he’d be a short term appointment, I think we need to move on from this idea that every manager should be a Sir Alex type that’s here for over 20 years. If we get the right structure in place we should be able to chop and change managers without it being a huge detriment to the team.
 
ShinjiNinja26 said:
He got PSG to a CL final, the only manager to do so since they got taken over and they’ve had some top managers in that time. He then won the thing with Chelsea when everyone had City as heavy favourites for that game. Everyone knows he’d be a short term appointment, I think we need to move on from this idea that every manager should be a Sir Alex type that’s here for over 20 years.
Click to expand...

I could accept a short term manager who has some really great league performances, but why would we hire this guy who has no great league pedigree? What are we trying to do in the short term or certainly not gonna win the Champions League next year? Are we?
 
It all just feels very Mourinho with him. "Good tactically, not the greatest football to watch but will get you results in the short term and make the best of the current squad, likely to fall out with people and leave after a couple of years." It's an appointment Woodward could've made.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
I could accept a short term manager who has some really great league performances, but why would we hire this guy who has no great league pedigree? What are we trying to do in the short term or certainly not gonna win the Champions League next year? Are we?
Click to expand...
Considering that you won't even play in the CL next season of course you aren't winning it. But with Tuchel you should have a shot of winning the EL/ECL. His league pedigree is probably better as you say, and after all he is a pragmatic manager who always finds solutions for his squad. As I think we all agree the current United squad is a Frankenstein disaster and probably won't be fixed in a single transfer window it would absolutely make sense to appoint a manager who will use the players available and integrate them into a stable setup while the new board keeps fixing the squad. Will he be the right one to do that final step? Maybe not. But he surely is an excellent choice for the upcoming consolidation period.
 
Laurencio said:
Surprising how far Tuchel's star has fallen. Most people agreed Chelsea were wrong to fire him, he was considered one of the top three managers in this league, and he's now in a CL final.
Click to expand...

Oh shit I must've missed the semis!
 
stefan92 said:
Considering that you won't even play in the CL next season of course you aren't winning it.
Click to expand...

Did you realise that was my point right? And Utd shouldn’t ever be appointing a manager because he might win the Europa league.

Any manager Utd should appoint should be with a view to fight for a league title. Obviously this can’t always go right but as with any top club that always has to be your priority.

I’m also not sure your consolidation point makes any sense either considering he’s much more likely to piss everyone off and leave the club in a worse state than he found it just as he has with every other club since Dortmund.
 
Fallon d'Floor said:
Look at their starting XI last night.

Steele - 33 journeyman GK who has mainly played in The Championship

Barco - 19 years old and his 1st ever PL start after arriving in January
Dunk - Improved a lot under De Zerbri, but basically a bargain bucket Maguire
van Hecke - Breakthrough season after 2 good loans in The Eredivisie and The Championship
Veltman - Veteran defender on the wane

Moder - Still trying to find himself after 19 months out (missed 88 games with a horror injury)
Baleba - I actually really like him and this run in the team will help him develop

J.Pedro - Their best player this season and one of the few quality players in attack available
Groß - Probably the most underrated midfielder in The PL
Lallana - Basically a semi-retired player-coach

Welbeck - I love Danny, but he can't be relied on to score goals consistently

Brighton didn't actually play that badly last night. It was a strange game. City's xG was only 1.36, despite scoring 4 goals.

Foden's free kick was a lucky deflection (poor from Groß) and it wasn't even a foul. It shouldn't have been a free kick. Then the naivety of young Barco cost them a goal and you're suddenly 3-0 down.

They actually played out from the back very well at times, but then couldn't punish City after beating the high press. A lack of quality from the likes of Moder, Lallana and Welbeck during transition. Missing the likes of Lamptey, Mitoma and March (missed pretty much the entire season and a key senior player) who can provide the necessary spark in attack.

Brighton didn't buy well in the summer, which is rare for them.

Losing the quality of Colwill, Caicedo and Mac Allister on top of multiple injuries in attack has lead to an average PL campaign with too many draws. The target now has to be finishing in the top 10 and then address positions that need strengthening in the summer.

When everyone is fit and in form, their best XI is probably:

Ferguson

Mitoma------------Enciso-------------March

Groß---------Baleba

Estupiñań-------Dunk------van Hecke------Hinshelwood

Verbruggen​
Click to expand...

I watched the second half only but thought they did well. They were a bit unlucky at times in certain passages, and should have had a pen in my opinion. They pressed City well and forced turnovers in dangerous areas. I don't know what happened in the first half but I watched the second half and thought they'll be good once they get a few players back next season. They're missing their first choice front 3, midfielders and defenders, and the quality in backup is not the same level. Far worse than or own issues in my opinion.

I think they've got a few younger/new players though that look promising to me. Baleba looks like he could be a beast once he gets a bit more settled and learns some positional discipline, Barco looked silky on the ball but is young and new to the league, Joao Pedro is a joy to watch and I think we need to keep an eye on him this summer. I also thought Offiah looked good off the bench too. A CB naturally I believe, but looked comfortable having to play as a wing back.

Once Mitoma, March, Ferguson and the rest return, they have the makings of a good team. And the game plan was still there last night, the tactics and coaching is still apparent but they do suffer by the drop in quality of players available. That's clear to see.
 
Tuchel is not the guy.

He has had some really poor league seasons with sides a lot more talented than ours.

We need someone who can keep up dressing room morale while instilling a style of football we wish to go forward with long term. Tuchel js not the man for either of those things.
 
Gabriel Djemba-Bebe said:
Depends what your definition of 'awful' is. Tuchel sets his teams up to be defensively organised but they're usually not too exciting to watch. Ten Hag is the complete opposite.
Click to expand...

I should have been more clear but yes, that is exactly what my definition of awful is in this case. Although I think what Ten Hag has been doing here isn't that exciting to watch either.

I would love to see our defense get beaten into shape but I don't know if Tuchel is capable of that with these lot if his current team is already leaking goals left and right with Kim Min Jae and De Ligt, two targets we have collectively been salivating over on the caf. It might not be that hard for him to do better than ETH here and he has accomplished more as a manager but I would still find this move very underwhelming, especially after all the reports about wanting to put emphasis on a certain style of play instead of catering to whatever manager X wants to play.
 
Very happy about the Tuchel rumors. Hopefully eth is sacked very soon
 
Ubik said:
It all just feels very Mourinho with him. "Good tactically, not the greatest football to watch but will get you results in the short term and make the best of the current squad, likely to fall out with people and leave after a couple of years." It's an appointment Woodward could've made.
Click to expand...

Hm, in terms of squad management maybe but not in terms of the football. He's a modern coach and he's still going to build on what Ten Hag drilled into the squad, uses high pressing, positional play etc.

A good viewing is the series of 1-0s he pulled off with Chelsea against Pep. They were in as much control of these games as City. It wasn't the case of an underdog raising their game to win a single knockout tie.

In terms of falling out with the owners - Bayern, Chelsea and PSG during his tenure were all clubs in chaos with meddlesome owners. It's not that surprising that he fell out with them. TBF it looks like we're going to have meddlesome owners and DOFs as well so it might still blow up if he comes but let's see.
 
Frank Grimes said:
Iraola is an interesting dark horse for me. Only 41 and has Bournemouth dominating most games. Impressive.
Click to expand...


I definitely think he is a promising young coach. Think he needs another season at Bournemouth.Michel is another promising spanish coach but with Gironas links to city potentially rules him out. Spain are becoming the new place to find world class managers. They are todays Italy in the 90s/early 00s.
 
Gabriel Djemba-Bebe said:
He wouldn't be my number 1 choice but I do understand the links. There is a dearth of proven top managers out there who are available. Tuchel would feel like a safe pair of hands considering what he achieved at Chelsea. Although his track record of falling out with players does concern me.
Click to expand...

Very accurate analogy and how I feel with regards to his management. Tuchel's strengths as a manager overlay Erik's current weaknesses but because of the lack of an appealing philosophy it's not a long term appointment but a short term resolution. I'm of the mind that Erik's tenure at United is untenable, another season with him at the helm further foresters instability, having someone come in to resolve the present tactical shortcomings could help this team and hierarchy identify a more decisive candidate in the longer term view for management.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
Did you realise that was my point right? And Utd shouldn’t ever be appointing a manager because he might win the Europa league.

Any manager Utd should appoint should be with a view to fight for a league title. Obviously this can’t always go right but as with any top club that always has to be your priority.

I’m also not sure your consolidation point makes any sense either considering he’s much more likely to piss everyone off and leave the club in a worse state than he found it just as he has with every other club since Dortmund.
Click to expand...

Who's gonna get us challenging for the league next year?

Unless Luis Enrique becomes available after PSG are done in Europe, I find it difficult to think of anyone who even might fit that criteria.
 
didz said:
Who's gonna get us challenging for the league next year?

Unless Luis Enrique becomes available after PSG are done in Europe, I find it difficult to think of anyone who even might fit that criteria.
Click to expand...
Nobody is getting this team challenging for the league title, the hope is to make the squad younger and with more upside and hope that they start to show signs of being a competent team. Even top 4 is unlikely for whoever is manager next year.

Also can someone explain why Luis Enrique is so highly rated on here? He's obviously a good manager but there's posts on here that seem to indicate he's rated higher by others than I would expect.
 
didz said:
Who's gonna get us challenging for the league next year?
Click to expand...

No-one is likely to get us challenging next year, but I’d hope the new structure identifies a manager they think fits their vision and work towards a future title push.

Bringing in a manager for a year or two who plays boring as feck football and has no great league pedigree feels like a Woodward thing to do and the opposite of what I hope for from the new CEO and DoF.
 
Tuchel spells another bloke who does ok then it all goes wrong. I know it’s a different regime above but I want someone who is an investment.

He’s another case where we all have concerns about his style of football but everyone’s like “oh yeah we should turn down a CL winner just because he doesn’t play the best football in the world nice one”…yes we should. We need to find the next great United manager who is going to target the top in 3-4 years when Pep is one the way out. I don’t care about a short term option who might beat City in the cup and finish 3rd.
 
Nine Hag, basically he has ten lives but every season he has one less if he doesn't meet targets.
 
DutchSerb said:
I should have been more clear but yes, that is exactly what my definition of awful is in this case. Although I think what Ten Hag has been doing here isn't that exciting to watch either.

I would love to see our defense get beaten into shape but I don't know if Tuchel is capable of that with these lot if his current team is already leaking goals left and right with Kim Min Jae and De Ligt, two targets we have collectively been salivating over on the caf. It might not be that hard for him to do better than ETH here and he has accomplished more as a manager but I would still find this move very underwhelming, especially after all the reports about wanting to put emphasis on a certain style of play instead of catering to whatever manager X wants to play.
Click to expand...
I agree with most of what you said. Just on the bolded part - I haven't watched much of his Bayern team but I watched a lot of Chelsea during his time there and the way he transformed their team from a shambles that was leaking goals under Lampard to one which was tight at back with the likes of Azpilicueta and Zouma playing CB, leading them to the Champions League trophy, two domestic cup finals and earning back to back top 4 finishes... that was undoubtedly impressive. I wouldn't have any concerns about whether he would make us a more well-organised team. I do have other concerns though about his man-management and whether we would play frontfoot, attacking football.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
No-one is likely to get us challenging next year, but I’d hope the new structure identifies a manager they think fits their vision and work towards a future title push.

Bringing in a manager for a year or two who plays boring as feck football and has no great league pedigree feels like a Woodward thing to do and the opposite of what I hope for from the new CEO and DoF.
Click to expand...

Fair enough. Based on what Ratcliffe has said about establishing a playing style and not flip-flapping around it, Tuchel doesn't seem a likely route I suppose.

And that probably is for the best. The scarlet thread record would almost certainly end under him, which would be a pretty huge deal for the club.
 
didz said:
Fair enough. Based on what Ratcliffe has said about establishing a playing style and not flip-flapping around it, Tuchel doesn't seem a likely route I suppose.

And that probably is for the best. The scarlet thread record would almost certainly end under him, which would be a pretty huge deal for the club.
Click to expand...

It's about the right structure next year, and setting expectations. I think that's the main thing.

Literally just having the right footballing structure, monitoring every facet such as the medical department that has been failing, what's happening on the training pitch, having accountability in general.

Then performance based contracts, no big fat pay cheques after a good season, shift the culture.

For now that's not just the manager, but Dan Ashworth assessing who doesn't fit with our style of play and removing them from the club, then Wilcox overseeing that we are playing the way the DoF wants. Omar Berrada looking over the financial side.

All of that will take a few years to fully set in.

I think ETH can probably succeed still given the right structure around him, I don't think any manager can deal with how shit United has been.
 
RORY65 said:
Also can someone explain why Luis Enrique is so highly rated on here? He's obviously a good manager but there's posts on here that seem to indicate he's rated higher by others than I would expect.
Click to expand...

Wins matches, plays entertaining football, and manages big egos well. Treble doesn't hurt either.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.