Is that true? If so then it's actually pretty impressive what he did at Chelsea (I rated him anyway, but didn't realise they barely signed anyone). I know he transformed a team as bad as us right now into CL winners. He's definitely got a lot of tactical nous.
Who replaces Ten Hag?
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Is that true? If so then it's actually pretty impressive what he did at Chelsea (I rated him anyway, but didn't realise they barely signed anyone). I know he transformed a team as bad as us right now into CL winners. He's definitely got a lot of tactical nous.
The Champions League win was the only real impressive part, the rest is actually pretty comparable to Ten Hag at United.
Ten Hag's overall win rate at United is currently 59.8% and he's also reached 3 domestic cup finals in two seasons.
The football was always pretty uninspiring with Tuchel at Chelsea and the wheels started coming off badly for him towards the end. Hindsight has looked very kindly on him with what's happened since at Chelsea but I still think they were justified in sacking him.
The combination of Boehly being viewed as incompetent, Tuchel being sacked pretty early after his takeover and a lot of stock being placed into Chelsea's Champions League win have all led to quite a lot of revisionism. I also doubt he would've been able to get Chelsea to qualify for the Champions League through the league again in 22/23, so the part about qualifying every season is slightly contentious.
They had won 3 of their last 9 games in the 21/22 season and only 3 of their first 7 in 22/23. It was a sustained run of poor form that probably wouldn't have improved much even if Tuchel was given the opportunity to stay on longer. Meanwhile, he had fallen out with their £100m signing and the goals were drying up.
Why do we want him replaced? He’s only 16 points off fourth. He only beat Coventry through luck. His ‘best team’ in 18 months contained players he chose to sell like Fred. If that’s his ambition we are into a winner.
Ah I remember the last season best, I guess that’s not fair on him.
I’m not sure he fits stylistically at MU, unless we have a playstyle institutionalized before then (like Ajax).
Arne Slot made Feyenoord competing for title with much smaller budget, and has them playing attractive football.
Inzaghi is another manager that looks great.
Please don't replace him with Tuchel, he's the most overrated coach in world football imo. Can't win the German league with that Bayern side and despite the CL win at Chelsea, he wasn't very impressive and the football was rubbish to watch.
Hasn't Emery extended his contract to 2027? Doesn't seem like he's looking to leave Villa.
Xabi's Leverkusen have been unreal though. If they keep gathering points like this they'll probably beat Bayern's 2015 season, which is their best in the past decade. It's unreasonable to expect anyone to match what they have been doing this season. Points wise Bayern are pretty much the same as last season, and they might still win a Champions League trophy.
It's true his football is not the best to watch but tactically he is very good. The simple fact that he managed to get past an in-form Arsenal with Bayern and beating City in that CL final are indicators that he knows what he is doing.
Also the fact he was the one interrupting Bayern's dominance is just one side of the story, everybody knows how good Leverkusen were this season.
I would take Tuchel at us, I rate him higher than Southgate, incomparible with Potter and better than De Zerbi.
Why should we get Tuchel in over Ten Hag.
Atleast Ten Hag has shown he has the gonads to deal with a mess of a club and move it in the right direction.
I think still he deserves another summer of transfers. Only the Antony signing was a clear failure and with the support in the new directors, recruitment and CEO we should do better as a club to sign him good players.
I want to see what Ten Hag can do next season with young centre backs and a fit left back. He was proven right on Onana and Martinez atleast. And a fully fit Hojlund has been worth the squad place.
Atleast Ten Hag has shown he has the gonads to deal with a mess of a club and move it in the right direction.
I think still he deserves another summer of transfers. Only the Antony signing was a clear failure and with the support in the new directors, recruitment and CEO we should do better as a club to sign him good players.
I want to see what Ten Hag can do next season with young centre backs and a fit left back. He was proven right on Onana and Martinez atleast. And a fully fit Hojlund has been worth the squad place.
Tuchel has always fallen out with players and staff. He is not the man for long term planing. No thanks.
They still have a chance to beat the all time Bundesliga points record (which Heynckes' Bayern set in 2012/13) if they win all their remaining four matches.
Bayern have even slightly more points than last season, so despite a botched transfer summer (yes they got Kane, but he can't paper over the new defensive holes in their squad in every match) their results slightly improved overall, even if not in any match and often not looking good while getting results.
Not with context.
Tuchel inherited a mess from Lamaprd over midway through the season and managed to reach The FA Cup final while beating teams like Real and City during their CL run (winners), and also finished 4th. Those 4 months alone are better than anything ten Hag has done at United.
Now let's compare their 2nd seasons.
Tuchel was given Lukaku and Sául (loan with an option to buy) after winning The CL and securing top 4. They finished 3rd (74 points) during his only full season and lost just 8 games in all competitions. ten Hag lost 12 games alone during his debut season, and that's with multiple signings and a full pre-season. This is ten Hag's 2nd season and he has lost 17 games. Tuchel only lost 16 games across his entire 100 game reign. ten Hag lost almost double that (28 defeats) from his first 100 games. He's now on 29 defeats from 107 games. His win percentage is actually 57.94% currently.
Tuchel had to manage 63 games during his only full season due to them playing in multiple competitions (6 due to The UEFA Super Cup and Club World Cup). They scored 122 goals and conceded 51 goals. United played in 62 games last season due to deep cup runs. United conceded 43 goals alone in The PL (38 games) compared to 51 for Tuchel over the entire 63 game season. Chelsea only conceded 33 goals in The PL that season. They also outscored ten Hag's United comfortably. 73 PL goals compared to 58 PL goals for United last season.
Let's compare their record vs the top teams during their reigns:
Tuchel:
City - 3 wins and 2 losses
Liverpool - 1 win and 4 draws
United - 3 draws
Spurs - 5 wins and 1 draw
Arsenal - 1 win and 2 losses
Leicester - 3 wins, 1 draw and 1 loss
West Ham - 3 wins and 1 loss
Overall = 16W, 9D, 6L +14 GD
Ten Hag:
City - 1 win and 4 losses
Liverpool - 2 wins, 2 draws and 1 loss
Chelsea - 2 wins, 1 draw and 1 loss
Spurs - 1 win, 2 draws and 1 loss
Arsenal - 1 win and 2 losses
Newcastle - 1 win, 1 draw and 3 losses
Villa - 4 wins and 1 loss
Overall = 12W, 7D, 12L, -14 GD
Tuchel took 10 points from 18 before he was sacked. ten Hag took 12 points from 18 during his opening 6 games last season. If ten Hag could achieve 3rd from 12 points from 21 points initially, it's not impossible for Tuchel to secure CL football again. I doubt your doubts based on 6 PL games. Abramovich leaving was the worst thing that ever happened to Chelsea. Tuchel would have been given time to work with the new players they signed that summer. And they wouldn't have let some of the players go that they did.
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Yeah, it's easy to say "He couldn't even win with Bayern", but honestly against the current Leverkusen season any Bayern side would struggle.
It's true but I would regard Leverkusen's success and Bayern's fall as two different things. Tuchel got his top transfer target, an absolute goalgetter and team player, yet was unable to upgrade their attacking play. At the same time he got the Serie A defender of the season from the winning team, while already having Upamecano and De Ligt. And somehow he managed to make them all look shaky and is now starting Eric Dier. Tuchel has a very questionable character. Tactically he has always been really strong, probably his biggest asset. However he got tactically outclassed by lower teams this season. I get the point that he is the most renown manager who is available, but I don't think it would be wise to appoint him - especially since our squad is full of big egos and difficult characters. We wouldn't want to add a manager who has the same traits. I also doubt INEOS would consider him.
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Bayern have 87 goals so far, more than any other side. It's the defensive part of the game that has fallen a part, but not because they allow too many chances, but because they let cheap chances in. Kim loses his man too often, Upemecano's positioning is questionable, and their goalkeeper situation is far from ideal. Which has resulted in ridiculous chances conceded. Some of the goals they have conceded are just comical. That said, it isn't much better here - probably worse.
None of the options really inspire me, so my decision would be to stick with Ten Hag. This season we’ve had terrible luck and just haven’t been able to build any momentum. Nothing has gone for us. I’d be inclined to let him start next season and see.
If we HAD to move him on, my thinking would be to go the McKenna route, as risky as that sounds.
If we HAD to move him on, my thinking would be to go the McKenna route, as risky as that sounds.
Even if ETH stats what would we do about his contract. Just let it run out showing no confidence in him? Then what do we define as a good season? He gets 5th? Scrapes 4th? Is that good? Is that here is another 3/4 years keep going?
He didn't get his top target, which allegedly was "any proper DM able to actually hold his position".
It's true he got Kim, but lost Hernandez, Pavard and Stanisic at the same time, leaving them with a very slim squad.
We extend it for a year, or we address it at Christmas.
And why would 5th or scraping 4th be considered a good season? Our objective is to build a winning team. If we don’t sign any players and all the ones we do have get injured, then the expectation will be set accordingly. 4th would be fantastic if the available players cannot constitute a winning team. The manager’s expectation should be linked to what he is given to work with. If we make smart moves in the summer, and the players are available, then we will perhaps expect to be challenging for the title. It all depends.
Wonder how Jim and co will respond if we put in another horror show and fail to win tonight?
ETH will no doubt call us unlucky and tell everyone to ignore the 27 shots against.
ETH will no doubt call us unlucky and tell everyone to ignore the 27 shots against.
Tuchel is a much better manager than ETH that goes without saying. That's if you weigh up their credentials as a means for comparison it's a good replacement like for like. However, if the hierarchy envision United playing a specific way and that ethos being demonstrable in recruitment, then that's where they will have to assess other managers who have a more refined philosophy.
When did that happen.
Tuchel is a no brainer for a couple of seasons at least, he will make us a respectable team again. Unlike the current chancer he actually does know what he's doing tactically.
Nonsense take. Bayern should have lost the league last year but fortunately for them, it was against the perennial bottlejobs Dortmund who gave it away on the last day. That was also Tuchel but basically with Nagelsmann's players and not even that.
In contrast to this season, Leverkusen have broken the all-time unbeaten record in Europe, so it's no shame losing to them, especially when the players seem to only care about the CL, with Rachel's departure announced ages ago.
And I think he fell out with his players at every club before. Chelsea, PSG, Bayern….
Based on what? Where did he have lots of success in the last 4-5 years?
What did it help in the 15 matches Ulreich had to start and in the few matches Neuer looked shaky about returning from his injury? It's far away from the situation at some other clubs who have a strong second choice who often gets to play the cup matches etc because he is good enough to be a "1B" solution instead of being a clear second choice.
Him being injured, or recovering from injury, has been a bit of an issue though?
Xavi is off the table. Agreed to stay at Barca next season
Iraola is an interesting dark horse for me. Only 41 and has Bournemouth dominating most games. Impressive.
Yeah. Spain are cooking right now with former players becoming good managers. Xavi and Alonso are higher profile, but both Arteta and Iraola had good careers themselves.
Bournemouth players struggled initially while adjusting to Iraola's methods. But haven't looked back since November.
A young team with a clear style of play. They play to their strength and he's improved multiple players who were already at the club. Cook and Christie in the middle of the park + Solanke up top in particular.
He probably needs another season or two of PL experience before he's ready for a bigger club.
Well the flippant answer is he won the champions league. But as another poster alluded to earlier in the thread, he's done a respectable job everywhere he's been and it seems like you can make a case for him being on the right side of history with most of those board disputes. Who wouldn't fall out with eejits like Boehly?
At Dortmund, 2nd highest points total and most goals in club history. Chelsea were comfortably the third best team in England during his time there and I know he didn't last long under Boehly but IIRC while things were sliding he was still doing better than those who have come since. At PSG he reached the CL final and again probably did a better job than anyone up to now. Even at Bayern they are on course for a points total that would win the league basically every other year (Leverkusen are just having a wonder season), making a deep run in the CL knocking out a strong Arsenal. All the while struggles are going on upstairs it sounds like. If this is the closest he has come to failing at a job then that's great news for us.
He's an ideal candidate to restore us with some semblance of order, tactics and respectability again while Ineos come in and sort out all the structural changes they want to make. If it's only for a couple of years so be it.
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These are all clubs known for their internal circus. He did a decent job with all of them given the respective circumstances.
Give Tuchel a good structure and the freedom to concentrate on the football while using only the players he really wants and make sure to get rid of everyone else.
Maybe he is not a perfect fit for the long term but if we are going to give ten Hag the sack he is the only realistic candidate that would fill me with a bit of confidence.
The only way I can see Tuchel working is like how Red Adair used to put out fires at oil drilling sites. A huge paraffin soaked barrel of Dynamite that gets slowly moved towards the burning toxic cloud of hot air and gas. As soon as it hits the column of spewing fire it ignites...explodes and blows out the flames.
Then a competent engineering team rush in and regain control of the drill head and return it to normal operation.
If it takes 4 or 5 levels of senior appointments to come up with a plan like that then it's safe to say they haven't earned their money as it's like any fan saying "throw Roy Keane at them for a month!"
If it's Tuchel then it's more circus, less progress!
Then a competent engineering team rush in and regain control of the drill head and return it to normal operation.
If it takes 4 or 5 levels of senior appointments to come up with a plan like that then it's safe to say they haven't earned their money as it's like any fan saying "throw Roy Keane at them for a month!"
If it's Tuchel then it's more circus, less progress!
I think getting a head coach in that is about to his peak years at United and somebody who constantly looks to evolve is important. I can even use Klopp as an example, he isn't the same coach as he was when he first joined Liverpool. If you look at his record early on there I remember Liverpool having issues with controlling games and giving away leads. You can say that was down to him not having great players but it was also a tactical issue. Klopp adapted over time. Even Pep changed after his first season at City and has constantly come up with new methods. It's what the great coaches do. I suspect coaches like Poch have become stuck in their own ways and haven't developed much in recent years and are now being left behind. I fear the same for ten Hag if I'm being honest.
Basically we need a coach who fits under the new structure and can implement the style of play the club decides on and a coach who is about to hit his peak years and is proactive.
Basically we need a coach who fits under the new structure and can implement the style of play the club decides on and a coach who is about to hit his peak years and is proactive.
I'm not 100% sold on Tuchel. He's no Pep or Klopp but if it's a choice between Tuchel, Potter or Southgate then Tuchel wins every time!!
Personally i think it will be Tuchel that gets the job.
Personally i think it will be Tuchel that gets the job.
Still would prefer De Zerbi at the moment.
But I think Tuchel is a good option too. And ironically, this could be the 1st club he manages with a coherent/settled board compared to his previous clubs.
But I think Tuchel is a good option too. And ironically, this could be the 1st club he manages with a coherent/settled board compared to his previous clubs.
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