Who is the better 'Striker'?

[Massive Spanner]

Some people disagree with you, or at least used to, in that he can be a fairly decent fullback. Either way, I think you're making a moot point here seeing that I said I don't think versatility counts for much when we're talking about world class players - I for one wouldn't put Rooney up as world class because he can play OK-ish as a midfielder when there are far better number tens and better strikers in the game.

I'm not talking about it in that context at all, I'm calling you up on saying Valencia is one of the most versatile wingers around, he's not, at all, in any way, he's basically the opposite of what I'd call a versatile footballer.

You didn't argue against me, but you did argue that Rooney was the better forward player.

There is of course point in discussing who is the better passer or finisher of the two. His short passing and first touch are my two biggest concerns when Rooney plays as a number ten; he is too wasteful with the ball, whereas RVP hardly gives the ball away.

So? What does that have to do with what we're debating right here? Nowt, it was completely unrelated and not aimed at you. What we're arguing/debating/wasting time on is this notion that a 28 year old Rooney who has been our best player in large chunks of this season has somehow declined as a player, which I think is absurd. I swear for around five bloody years people have kept using the word 'decline' with Rooney and yet time and time again he goes on to show that's simply not the case at all.

 

[Rossa]

I'm not talking about it in that context at all, I'm calling you up on saying Valencia is one of the most versatile wingers around, he's not, at all, in any way, he's basically the opposite of what I'd call a versatile footballer.

He's been used as a fullback, sometimes so well that people wanted him instead of Rafael (I agree that he's been below par for way too long now), and allegedly plays well in a more central role for Ecuador - to me, that's quite versatile. Rooney was played as a striker, number ten and midfielder last season and was mostly shit no matter where he played - was he not versatile still?

So? What does that have to do with what we're debating right here? Nowt, it was completely unrelated and not aimed at you. What we're arguing/debating/wasting time on is this notion that a 28 year old Rooney who has been our best player in large chunks of this season has somehow declined as a player, which I think is absurd. I swear for around five bloody years people have kept using the word 'decline' with Rooney and yet time and time again he goes on to show that's simply not the case at all.

In all honesty, Redcafe is about wasting time, is it not?

I just called you up on you saying that he's a better forward than RVP. I know it wasn't aimed at me - I even said as much. Do you or do you not think so? It should not matter whether I'm in that discussion or not...

To me, Rooney's overall play has declined whereas his clinical finishing and stats have improved. He can play well below average yet make an assist and score a goal in the same match. That tells me that he is important, but also that our overall play could improve without him in the team - not saying I'm convinced we would win more games and/or titles without him.

The fact that Rooney has been our best player this season doesn't say all that much as the rest of our team has been below par, bar Januzaj and arguably Smalling of late. Carrick's been mostly absent as has RVP and neither have had a chance to play themselves into form - again, the discussion of form and class.

You don't answer anything. Do you or don't you think that Rooney is a great short passer and has a great first touch for the number ten role? Does he really have attributes that overshadow RVP's qualities as a forward/striker? Long range passing hardly defines an attacker. I can only think of his versatility and his work rate - you have offered no other arguments, yet you keep saying that I'm wrong in all that I say. Are you arguing for the sake of arguing?

 

[dmode]

Rooney is by far our best player.

 

[Massive Spanner]

He's been used as a fullback, sometimes so well that people wanted him instead of Rafael (I agree that he's been below par for way too long now), and allegedly plays well in a more central role for Ecuador - to me, that's quite versatile. Rooney was played as a striker, number ten and midfielder last season and was mostly shit no matter where he played - was he not versatile still?

Again, you keep going on about positions over and over, what makes him a versatile footballer, the fact that he can play really badly at right back? It's about more than that, he's unbelievably one dimensional and not versatile on the ball at all. Rooney on the other hand is totally different because he can constant adapt his game and change things up. Valencia is not a versatile footballer, you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who'd agree with you there.

In all honesty, Redcafe is about wasting time, is it not?

I just called you up on you saying that he's a better forward than RVP. I know it wasn't aimed at me - I even said as much. Do you or do you not think so? It should not matter whether I'm in that discussion or not...

To me, Rooney's overall play has declined whereas his clinical finishing and stats have improved. He can play well below average yet make an assist and score a goal in the same match. That tells me that he is important, but also that our overall play could improve without him in the team - not saying I'm convinced we would win more games and/or titles without him.

The fact that Rooney has been our best player this season doesn't say all that much as the rest of our team has been below par, bar Januzaj and arguably Smalling of late. Carrick's been mostly absent as has RVP and neither have had a chance to play themselves into form - again, the discussion of form and class.

You don't answer anything. Do you or don't you think that Rooney is a great short passer and has a great first touch for the number ten role? Does he really have attributes that overshadow RVP's qualities as a forward/striker? Long range passing hardly defines an attacker. I can only think of his versatility and his work rate - you have offered no other arguments, yet you keep saying that I'm wrong in all that I say. Are you arguing for the sake of arguing?

Erm, no? I'm trying to end it by saying I don't want to argue about who is the better player, you get me? There's sort of a big difference there. I don't care what you think, I've no intention of debating this with you, everyone has their preferences on who's better, but he hasn't declined as a footballer, that's all I argued with you, that's all I will argue with you, and clearly by you constantly meandering and now drifting off on this new tangent, you can't argue against that anymore, so that's fine, let's just agree that he hasn't declined and watch the City match, because I'm bored of this now and I'm not going to enter into more never-ending debates with you that you then sack and move onto something new instead of acknowledging that maybe your initial statement was slightly over the top.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

I chose Rooney, simply because Rooney, on the rare occasions he has played striker this season, fits that false no.9 role perfectly, in my opinion. Not only can he go in behind, but he can drop off, link up play and has the vision to pick out players going beyond him.

Having said all of this, I think this is an unfair poll as Rooney, as I mentioned before, very rarely gets to play as an out and out striker for us. When he does; however, he has proven he is just as good as Van Persie there, in my opinion, and always seems to bring the best out of the team.

 

[wonnie]

This. Rooney and Van Persie at their best are great strikers, but choosing one going forward will help the team play a more balanced game.

This makes sense in theory but I don't trust that the team will be able to play a balanced game even if we only had one of them. Especially under Moyes, we've been atrocious tactically. I mean Moyes has had a lot of games now.


I'd rather lose Moyes than one of Rooney/RvP.

 

[Rossa]

Again, you keep going on about positions over and over, what makes him a versatile footballer, the fact that he can play really badly at right back? It's about more than that, he's unbelievably one dimensional and not versatile on the ball at all. Rooney on the other hand is totally different because he can constant adapt his game and change things up. Valencia is not a versatile footballer, you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who'd agree with you there.

Perhaps we should just let that discussion rest as we seem to differ on the definition of versatile.

Erm, no? I'm trying to end it by saying I don't want to argue about who is the better player, you get me? There's sort of a big difference there. I don't care what you think, I've no intention of debating this with you, everyone has their preferences on who's better, but he hasn't declined as a footballer, that's all I argued with you, that's all I will argue with you, and clearly by you constantly meandering and now drifting off on this new tangent, you can't argue against that anymore, so that's fine, let's just agree that he hasn't declined and watch the City match, because I'm bored of this now and I'm not going to enter into more never-ending debates with you that you then sack and move onto something new instead of acknowledging that maybe your initial statement was slightly over the top.

Why would you first write that you think Rooney is the better forward but voted for RVP as the best striker and still do not wish to discuss who is the better player?

In my discussion of who is the better footballer, I said that Rooney has declined in certain aspects of his game that set him apart from most players, including RVP. He has improved his stats and clinical finishing, but he is not better than RVP there. When he still isn't a good enough short passer or has a good enough first touch, I think he has declined his overall play, but he still contributes a lot with his goals and assists. RVN was never as good a player as Henry, but his stats were at least as impressive. Just because Rooney's stats have improved, it doesn't mean his overall game has. To use your argument above; I think (well I know) a lot of people would actually agree with me on that.

I've never moved onto discussing anything but who is better of the two and then slightly sidetracked to make a point. It is you who don't make any arguments of your own other than saying that I'm this or that or wrong here or there.