Pogba vs better sides might work worse than mctominay and Fred. Although we need Pogbas creativity vs weaker sides that defend deep.
Who gets the 3rd midfield slot: Fred or McTominay
- Thread starter Fortitude
- Start date
Pogba vs better sides might work worse than mctominay and Fred. Although we need Pogbas creativity vs weaker sides that defend deep.
As someone who at one point wondered if Fred really was a footballer and someone who sneered at the "is it time to apologise to Fred" thread (because all the criticism was warranted) I largely disagree with you on Fred.
He's neither a creative midfielder nor a defensive shield, but given the only style Ole has managed to perfect is counter attack against teams who press up, Fred is a pretty instrumental player. He's a good ball carrier, his endeavour and energy is second to none, he's bought into the style Ole wants and like McTominay releases the ball quickly whilst also giving everything with his pressing. The two of them are our midfield. Pogba either plays in a midfield three or AM. The theory he works in a double pivot has been debunked (sad as that is).
Last edited:
Maybe against teams who sit off us yeah. His best position is where Fernandes plays and there's no way he's getting in the team ahead of him, so it's only really going to work if we need two people doing that job.
He wasn't much help in the early part of the season against teams who sit off either. He played against Palace, Southamtpon etc. and was rubbish, frankly. Maybe not fully fit but he's hardly going to be now either. He hasn't played a minute the entire year.
If he's been outstanding in training or comes in and plays really well then obviously it's different but I'm not sure why he'd just walk into a team before the break was in the best form it's been all season. Particularly not when we have Spurs and then Sheffield United our first two games.
I honestly believe people arguing for any of Scott or Fred over Pogba are trolling. I seriously do 
I honestly believe people arguing for any of Scott or Fred over Pogba are trolling. I seriously do
I think most of them who are will admit they aren't as talented but admire players who actually want to be here mate. That's the thing you are missing.
If Pogba and Bruno are both starting and assuming it's 4-3-3 then it's Fred for me simply because he has the legs and is the medium between McT and Matic, both who I rate.
To be honest any three of Fred/Matic or McTominay is good enough against 80% of the league.
The rest of the 20%/difficult games and long term team style is then based on 3 other important things:
1) how Ole sets the team up in terms of his right winger (James, Peirera, Lingard etc as defensive width)
2) how the team is coached on second balls, pressing, defensive shape etc.
3) who we play as Maguire's partner because whilst we may be on the front foot more and therefore they will have 'less' to do, they may be exposed in other situations like dealing with a higher line and finding themselves in 1-2-1 situations. Lindelof is going to stick out like a sore thumb if he continues with the deferring and passive defending. Hopefully Bailly or someone like Axel gets a chance and just runs with it.
On a separate note, I wouldn't be surprised to see 2 of Fred/McT/Matic playing and then Pogba on the left with Martial centre and then Rashford on the right. Yes I know Rashford isn't as good on the right but that's still a very solid team because Pogba actually provides a lot of width and penetration on the left and I can see Rashford finding more joy as he'll have Bruno closer to him.
To be honest any three of Fred/Matic or McTominay is good enough against 80% of the league.
The rest of the 20%/difficult games and long term team style is then based on 3 other important things:
1) how Ole sets the team up in terms of his right winger (James, Peirera, Lingard etc as defensive width)
2) how the team is coached on second balls, pressing, defensive shape etc.
3) who we play as Maguire's partner because whilst we may be on the front foot more and therefore they will have 'less' to do, they may be exposed in other situations like dealing with a higher line and finding themselves in 1-2-1 situations. Lindelof is going to stick out like a sore thumb if he continues with the deferring and passive defending. Hopefully Bailly or someone like Axel gets a chance and just runs with it.
On a separate note, I wouldn't be surprised to see 2 of Fred/McT/Matic playing and then Pogba on the left with Martial centre and then Rashford on the right. Yes I know Rashford isn't as good on the right but that's still a very solid team because Pogba actually provides a lot of width and penetration on the left and I can see Rashford finding more joy as he'll have Bruno closer to him.
Also people are quick to dismiss Matic when he's the most likely to start with Pogba and Bruno.
Fred is very poor with his positioning. Of every regular in the PL, he's got dribbled past more than anyone else. And his percentage of successful/unsuccessful tackles is also pretty atrocious (only Lewis Cook is worse):
For comparison, McTominay is a defensive rock according to the same metrics:
For comparison, McTominay is a defensive rock according to the same metrics:
its a tough choice really. The break could have done wonders for him but I agree with how fluid Spurs could** be it doesn’t seem like the game for him. I could see him put on late in the game to close it out.
On the other hand he does seem like the more natural balance considering Bruno will he tracking back and maybe Pogba might decide to. Wan Bissaka gives extra cover as well.
To be brutally honest I think all three could do the job. Matic has shown a lot of hustle in him this season.
Fred is very poor with his positioning. Of every regular in the PL, he's got dribbled past more than anyone else. And his percentage of successful/unsuccessful tackles is also pretty atrocious (only Lewis Cook is worse):
For comparison, McTominay is a defensive rock according to the same metrics:
Fred seems to have energy to press but maybe struggles to do anything when someone makes a run behind him, like a good sliding tackle or just holding his ground.
As you say, with the stats I can see why Mctomminay would be better at just being a physical presence.
Neither.
Matic is the DM
Matic is the DM
If you want a defensive midfielder then we will have to sign one. McTominay is not good enough at passing or defending to be a mainstay in the team, and also gets dispossessed too much. Fred is not good enough at defending.
We will have to sign someone if we are going with Pogba and Fernandes.
We will have to sign someone if we are going with Pogba and Fernandes.
Agree with this. For me he's currently a bench player until such time as he uses his minutes to convince us that he wont screw up the very nice balance that has emerged in our midfield.
Matic is the only 'proven' DM positionally and discipline wise that can sit back behind Bruno & Pogba. We may try Fred or McT only if Bruno or Pogba holds back a bit too, as those two are full of energy and bite but don't have the deep lying positional discipline/intelligence of keeping play safe yet.
I dont see why we should go out of our way to accommodate a player that has a large question mark around his commitment to the club - especially coming off of a run of great form where the midfield looked to be finding a very good balance.
There has always been a bit too much 'what can we do for Pogba' from our fanbase for my liking.
There has always been a bit too much 'what can we do for Pogba' from our fanbase for my liking.
Even though we'll play as a 4-3-3 without the ball, I can see us playing similar to Pep's City in his first season with Shaw and AWB tucking in as defensive midfielders when we're in possession - something like;
---------------------------De Gea------------------------
---------------Lindelof----------Maguire-----------
------AWB---------------Fred------------Shaw------
James----Bruno-----------Pogba----Rashford
------------------------Martial----------------------------
It would give our most defensive midfielder enough support and give license for our front 5 to really attack - they can work in tandem, with one supporting Fred/McTom/Matic if the other goes forward to help create overloads on the wings. It plays to our strengths, with both players being good/great defensively and Shaw in particular being a very solid passer without being very effective in the wide positions.
---------------------------De Gea------------------------
---------------Lindelof----------Maguire-----------
------AWB---------------Fred------------Shaw------
James----Bruno-----------Pogba----Rashford
------------------------Martial----------------------------
It would give our most defensive midfielder enough support and give license for our front 5 to really attack - they can work in tandem, with one supporting Fred/McTom/Matic if the other goes forward to help create overloads on the wings. It plays to our strengths, with both players being good/great defensively and Shaw in particular being a very solid passer without being very effective in the wide positions.
i thought this was obvious - its depends on who we are playing against.
In terms of style and role, yeah. Obviously, if they achieve a third of what that trio achieved they would do amazingly well.
The fan base don’t pick the team. If Ole Solskjaer starts Pogba, do you believe that it will be because his thinking of ‘what can I do for Pogba first and foremost?’. Or is there, possibly, an alternative reality where Pogba is simply, I dunno, good enough to get into the Manchester United team?
I think the manager would also have a better idea as to his commitment. I also don’t get the suggestion that any player should not be played because they have yet to commit to a new contract. Especially when their current one has two years left. So what if we don’t know exactly how many years Pogba will stay? I think people are trying to force some sort of disruption narrative that isn’t there. For now, at the very least, he seems more than happy to be here, and desperate to play. And has two years left on his deal. What is the issue?
The Guardian just wrote "The fundamental problem with Pogba is that he is a box-to-box player in an era that struggles to accommodate them.". I agree with this. I like the urgency that McTominay and Fred bring to pressing and moving the ball, I like the way Matic has organised things and made play since he's returned to form (and what feels like full fitness....), I don't like Pogba's lack of urgency and dynamism, for all his other strengths and he isn't free to go where he likes in the modern game to affect it, it costs the team too much in shape.
I still think Pogba will be gone by the time the new season starts. I dont think he will be an automatic pick and apart from Bruno, who will be subbed if we are winning well, all the rest will be picked on a rolling basis. The 'easier' (on paper) teamsI think you will see Bruno, Pogba, and Matic, but the rest you will see Bruno and 2 from the rest, probably Pogba coming on in the 2nd half for Bruno. Part of our recovery has been 10 clean sheets and only 2 conceded and 31-2 in goals, in the last 12 games since Liverpool. Results
Ole doesnt need to go too gung ho as he already has the firepower.
Ole doesnt need to go too gung ho as he already has the firepower.
If Pogba were to stay in any sort of long run, I wouldn’t take it for granted that he’d spend the rest of his time here behind Fernandes either. Fernandes has had a great first few games, and given everyone a lift after coming in as a new player - but the road is long. I’m not convinced that he’s just established himself as a better midfielder than Pogba, and objectively speaking - I’m not sure he’s done anything Pogba hasn’t done in his short time here either. Scored a few pens, like Pogba, created a few chances, like Pogba does, given the ball away just as often (which I suspect will become more visible to some the ‘less new’ he is, or if our results were to not be good enough for a sustained period). I haven’t looked at their respective defensive stats, but I doubt they have been much different either, factually speaking. He’s first place in a number of departments in our team like passes forward, chances etc that Pogba was also first place in.
All I’m saying is don’t take it for granted that Pogba has no chance of getting into a team ahead of Bruno. I’m sure that idea looks ridiculous to many now, for many reasons, and I agree that it would be silly to start Pogba and not Bruno against Spurs, for example. But I wouldn’t put it past Pogba to have a few brilliant games and then we run into a game where we can only play one and the outcome seems a lot less obvious. But yea, I’m sure not many will agree now, but I thought I’d introduce that possibility because it will likely anger many if it comes to fruition. Just don’t be surprised if there are games where Ole has Pogba on the pitch and Bruno isn’t.
The team is clearly playing a lot better now than it was before Bruno joined - although Pogba wasn’t in that team either. The team is playing better than it has done, AT TIMES, with Pogba in it too, of course, but that is over a 3 year sample compared with one month. The team isn’t playing better than it has done in a number of other one month periods over the last 3 seasons too. The sample is too small to be definitive. I think Bruno’s consistent level is still a little unclear at the moment to be too absolute. Are we talking a Kevin De Bruyne player? I’m not sure yet that he’s in the highest bracket of AM in the world just yet, need to see more. This isn’t necessarily about Pogba either. If Pogba were sold, and we bought Havertz, for example, there is no guarantee that Bruno would not end up as a squad player, in the long run, if we felt we were better with just one. Do we have a De Bruyne or an Eriksen? Don’t think we know yet. With an Eriksen, at a club of this size, there is no guarantee that you will always play. A De Bruyne, certainly. An Eriksen is at risk from either better players or better form players at a club like this. Right now it’s 7 or 8 good games and no real bad ones, so it looks great. After 100, hopefully he is even better, but it isn’t promised.
What I’ll clarify again before people think this is mere ‘agenda’ or whatever, is that right now, if we are to make a choice between Pogba and Fernandes, then it has to be Bruno. I’m just saying that I’m not certain either Bruno is that good or Pogba that bad that such a scenario is set in stone. I can’t imagine Pogba being satisfied with being seen as second choice, and if it gives him a kick to put out the best he’s capable of, I think his best may well be better than Bruno’s.
Really ? We push Pogba in the midfield just because of his number and feck all the efforts both Fred and Scott made in midfield ? Talk about sending a shitty message to the players about value of hard working.
Fred and Scott are a great defensive combination with each other and Bruno has been our best player since he joined. Pogba has no place in midfield at the moment.
Fred - Scott - Bruno are our midfield. If Pogba wants to play he has to prove himself coming from the bench. Period.
Fred and Scott are a great defensive combination with each other and Bruno has been our best player since he joined. Pogba has no place in midfield at the moment.
Fred - Scott - Bruno are our midfield. If Pogba wants to play he has to prove himself coming from the bench. Period.
Scott himself, has been out of the team, after - like Pogba - being injured. Matic has been a regular, and been playing well. I’m assuming you intend to send a ‘shitty message’ and ‘feck all the hard work’ Matic has done establishing himself in the team by putting Scott back in ahead of him.
I don't remember if Matic was a starter before season stopped but if he was and was doing well then play him alongside who was playing then.
Absolutely no reason to push Pogba in midfield now except just for his name as a star. Anything else ? We were doing great the last 1 or 2 months once we got Bruno and our midfield was working. Why should we disturb it for the sake of Pogba ?
We don't have a single midfielder that can hold the midfield on its own like say Fernandinho at City to play with one DMF. Neither Scott not Fred can do a single defensive midfielder job and Matic is way too slow to play alone. With a passenger off the ball like Pogba we'll be on a big disadvantage on getting attacked.
We have to play with a working midfield not just gather the best names and push them in the lineup which was ultimately one of the many reasons of our fall last several years. We managed to find a working formula for our midfield when we signed Bruno, why disturb the cards again ?
If Pogba wants to play he has to come from the bench and proves his worth ahead of any of the other midfielders. Period. I'm not against him but at the moment he has no place in our midfield.
I doubt Ole shares your views regarding Pogba. For some reason, I suspect that he feels Pogba has more to contribute than a star name. Hopefully those other qualities he thinks Pogba has will be seen on the pitch, as I suspect that is where Pogba will be. Who knows, with any luck, he might help us pass the ball, transition and create chances better - long shot as that may be.
Personally, I’m not particularly keen to surrender the initiative to Spurs anyway. They have nothing in midfield themselves. They have no top class creative midfielders, they have runners and tacklers. We have the class to not try to turn the midfield into a dog fight with them - but maybe approach games like some of the top sides whose football we have envied over the years like City and Barcelona - by playing to our own strengths - which is having two of the three best creative central midfielders in the league, rather than be so hasty to line up our own Fred and McTominay against Spurs’ Freds and McTominays.
Also, it isn’t as if Pogba offers ZERO defensive value either. That’s been something that’s grown legs over time. If you go near him he’ll take the ball off you! A glance at any defensive stats will show you that he offers SOME contribution in this area. He’s not as good defensively as Fred and Scott of course, he’s about half as good - and at least twice as good with the ball. It’s a case of us deciding what sort of team we want to be.
Let's try and see it first.
It's just theories so far, and theory doesn't always happen as scripted.
I wouldn't be surprise if these happen:
It's just theories so far, and theory doesn't always happen as scripted.
I wouldn't be surprise if these happen:
- Midfield trio with Pogba and Bruno actually works.
- Fred or McT can solo DMF, hold midfield.
- Matic defy expectations and back to his best solo DMF.
- etc
- etc
What does playing with Fred-Scott/Matic-Bruno have to do with surrendering the initiative to Spurs or any other team in the league ?The point is this combination of midfield works. It worked for us and we played the best football we played this season in the last 1 or 2 months before season stopped, finally looked consistent, scoring many goals and putting in great performances. Why should we disturb everything just because a star that has been absent for injury for the whole season just returned ? Doesn't make any kind of sense for me.
Pushing Pogba in means changing the majority of the roles of the other midfielders around him. Fred/Scott/Matic will have to do extra work on their own to secure midfield which I don't think neither of them can do it on their own and thus Bruno might have to drop down to support them while he was our best attacking player since he joined. Why all that ?
What's the problem in him proving his worth and that he deserves a place in midfield by his own work ? Let him start from the bench and if it's proven from his playtime that he can combine with one of the 3 midfielders and Bruno in a good midfield combination, Ok, try it later on from the start.
But changing the formula that we were finally having some success and good consistent football with just to push him in, sorry I don't really like this.
It has to do with surrendering the initiative because it is a direct choice of our best attacking midfield for our best defensive one. Scott and Fred will of course give certain things that just one of them do - and Bruno and Pogba will of course give us things that just one of them won’t. In my opinion, Spurs don’t have as much quality as us in midfield. We should be pressing home that advantage rather than neutralising it by reducing our own midfield quality in fear of being overrun by their inferior one. I know it isn’t a simple science, but ultimately - Barca don’t go dropping one of Iniesta or Xavi for games - as they believe that their own strength is greater than the opponents. I’m sure an opponent would love for them to drop one and try and be safer. City are similar, 90% of the time.
Also, I don’t think our previous form is relevant. With a 3 month break, the coaches are going to be looking forward not backwards at the sort of team they want to build. I’m guessing that includes Pogba, and it includes Rashford, who will not have to ‘prove’ they can get into a winning team. The key point is, while you keep saying Pogba ‘needs to prove his worth’, I don’t think Ole feels he needs to prove anything to him. He’s 27. Ole has probably already been long convinced of his quality.
He will likely start, and then, if he ‘proves’ to struggle after a few games, he may be taken out of the team as we now have more options, similarly for Bruno Fernandes or any other midfielder. But to begin with, Ole will want his best players on the pitch, especially one who is quite possibly the best of them all.
Since Pogba coming in he's mostly been played in a 2 pivot and that's where the majority of his performances have been, so where does this random worry about having someone else babysit him in midfield comes from?
In Mourinho's first season Pogba was part of a 2 midfield with Mikki as the 10. Ole came and has kept Pogba has part of a pivot with either of Lingard or Perreira as a 10. Now with Bruno's arrival and Pogba return it simply means Ole keeps his favored formation but this time will be fielding far better players in midfield with Pogba and Bruno slotting into their respective roles.
One of Scott, Fred or Matic will be partnering Pogba in that pivot. Saying any combination of Fred, Scott or Matic in midfield is better than with Pogba is downright ludicrous. People have got to stop trying to perpetrate this utter nonsense. While it has been admirable to see Fred and Scott step up and hustle in the midfield, neither in no way, shape or form should be picked ahead of Pogba just because some people get teary seeing them work hard in midfield. It's such a ridiculous thing to say, choosing to bench Pogba for lesser quality players who will offer less. I mean are some people having a laugh?
Anyways, Ole who is clearly not an idiot wouldn't even dare thinking of benching Pogba to favor any of McTominay, Fred or Matic over him. Like most united fans he wants to win games and field his best players which he'll most likely always do if he has them available.
In Mourinho's first season Pogba was part of a 2 midfield with Mikki as the 10. Ole came and has kept Pogba has part of a pivot with either of Lingard or Perreira as a 10. Now with Bruno's arrival and Pogba return it simply means Ole keeps his favored formation but this time will be fielding far better players in midfield with Pogba and Bruno slotting into their respective roles.
One of Scott, Fred or Matic will be partnering Pogba in that pivot. Saying any combination of Fred, Scott or Matic in midfield is better than with Pogba is downright ludicrous. People have got to stop trying to perpetrate this utter nonsense. While it has been admirable to see Fred and Scott step up and hustle in the midfield, neither in no way, shape or form should be picked ahead of Pogba just because some people get teary seeing them work hard in midfield. It's such a ridiculous thing to say, choosing to bench Pogba for lesser quality players who will offer less. I mean are some people having a laugh?
Anyways, Ole who is clearly not an idiot wouldn't even dare thinking of benching Pogba to favor any of McTominay, Fred or Matic over him. Like most united fans he wants to win games and field his best players which he'll most likely always do if he has them available.
Fred is very poor with his positioning. Of every regular in the PL, he's got dribbled past more than anyone else. And his percentage of successful/unsuccessful tackles is also pretty atrocious (only Lewis Cook is worse):
For comparison, McTominay is a defensive rock according to the same metrics:
'Dribbled past' and 'Successful Tackles' can be taken with a pinch of salt because the definition can vary and I'm sure you're aware, context is vital here.
These stats also shows that Fred makes almost twice as many tackles, which I would interpret as Fred affecting or being involved in the game more, which imo is probably more of an important factor IF we are to play both Pogba/Bruno on the same pitch.
I don't expect or accept that the latter two will be as defensively solid in a midfield three so I'd go for the player like Fred, who has the legs to go around the pitch and close/snuff out danger before or as it happens. Winning the ball and being defensively effective can be mutually exclusive. Fred doesn't need to win tackles, he just needs to there in the first defensive phase to slow the player down and be agressive by attempting tackles/jostling etc. Then it'd allow your Pogbas/Brunos etc to come back.
It depends on your thinking of how the team should play but I'm being a realist and whilst a Matic/Carrick type may 'shield' the defence and hold their position better, if we have Pogba/Bruno in front and someone like Lindelof (i.e plays on the back foot, rarely takes initiative) behind, I'd much rather have a Hargreave/Fletcher/Fred all round type with the energy 'sitting'.
It's not clear as day and it's still a compromise of course. From watching our games this season and I think we can all attest to, I'd assume the 'dribbled past' stat for Fred is simply because he gets drawn to the ball more. Hopefully if he is told to be the one sitting then he can perhaps be a bit more reserved in this manner. Of the three, I think he has the better base of energy, tackling ability, passing range and adaptability.
Scott and Fred aren't as defensive as you make them out to be, and that's why I prefer both together than having one of them being restricted as a single DMF, in which both of them will struggle. They work together well, press together, get back together, disturb play in midfield together and can actually push up front together to help Bruno when needed. For such reason this combination works, because it's a mix of attack and defense in a balanced way, and can support both attackers and defenders.
It's relevant. This is the best football we played all season and the only time we actually looked like we have a good working formula for midfield and we should try to see more of it before changing the basics and starting from scratch. Beside the comparison between Pogba and Rashford isn't on the point, because as I said, pushing Pogba in will have to change the roles of his partners, one midfielder will have to put much extra effort to defend and that might force Bruno to drop back and support him, while putting Rashford as a left winger instead of whoever was playing then isn't really going to disturb any balance or change any roles for his partners.
Beside, before we got Bruno anyway people wanted Pogba to play in Bruno's current position and have 2 defensive midfielders behind him "to release him" and "make him free to attack" because anything else "restricts him", so changing this now and trying to put him in a midfield with only one defensive midfielder doesn't really make sense.
It's not about "being convinced of his ability". It's about seeing if he can work in the current formation and formula and for that we better test it from the bench rather from the start for me.
Why not the opposite ? Why not let him prove he can combine with these players well from the bench then test it from the start instead of disturbing everything just to test it ?
Of course,, you're free to prefer it this way but I prefer the opposite one. I honestly don't give a shite about having all the best names we have at once on the pitch and don't want Ole or whoever will be our manager at any point to think that way. It's not a gallery. You don't win matches by collecting as many big names as possible on the pitch. I want a working team. If Pogba proves he can be a starting part of our current working team and keeps the machine working then put him in. At the moment I prefer to stick to what worked previously and see how he'll do from the bench. There're still 9 matches in the leagues beside several matches in Fa Cup and EL. More than enough time for him to prove he can work there instead of pushing it up from the start. Don't think there's really any problem with that.
Last edited:
That sounds harsh but I'm afraid it's true. Kante has revolutionized the way people look at defensive midfielder, now everyone considers mobility and coverage as the top priorities for a DM. This is very different from what we learnt from the past, when the likes of Busquets, Alonso, Carrick were called top DMs in the world.
They didn't have the legs to cover lots of ground either, but they read the game so well that they cut out the danger without travelling so much. This allowed them to sit comfortably in front of the backline without getting caught out of position. They also had the ability and vision to bring the ball out of defence, which is an attribute many have overlooked nowadays.
Fred and Herrera (and Kante) are good professional players with commitment, I like them but they are clearly overrated.
The funny thing is Kante was so good at what he did for Leicester that people haven't noticed that he has rarely ever done that with Chelsea. Kante however is an Intelligent player, which is why he can and was able to get himself into great defensive position to win back possession. Herrera and Fred could barely do that in most games. Fred doesnt even have the strength or balance to win it back when he does get into good positions because he's a poor tackler.
Your points are fair. But it isn’t about us playing ‘well’, it is about us playing to the best that we can. It is just a guess, but I suspect that Ole sees the best version of United as one that includes the best version of Pogba. He’s going to try and play a team with his best players, especially one that is quite possibly his best. What do you think they are trying all month in training? He will likely know how he wants them to combine.
And in any case, before Bruno arrived - Pogba was the sole creative midfielder, and it was not enough. For all the criticism he gets and talk of ‘balance’, the tactic seemed to be little more than a bunch of statues just passing the ball to him and waiting for him to do something amazing. Game after game. We needed to restructure the midfield so that the unit created chances, as opposed to simply Pogba creating chances. Now in fairness, I would not have bought Bruno to be that player, as I would have agreed with many that it would be too offensive. My dream would have been someone like Saúl, who is just a top quality midfielder with enough skill to create and manipulate the ball under pressure, and enough hard work to help Scott/Fred. We didn’t get that type of midfielder, we got Bruno. For what it’s worth, I don’t think Bruno is a better creative midfielder than Pogba anyway, and I agree that it has the potential to be defensively weak. It also has the potential to be offensively brilliant and dominate games. Both of them will need to do their share of defensive work. Contrary to the repetition, I don’t believe that Pogba is not capable of doing any defensive work. Nor do I believe that Bruno is incapable. So that is the combination I will try first. And ultimately, if it doesn’t work, then we have a decision to make between Pogba OR Bruno. But contrary to current consensus, I believe that is a decision to make, not some sort of no-brainer, because to conclude Bruno is better than Pogba is massively premature in my opinion. It depends on how they both perform going forward. I back them to combine though well though, and I back us to be a lot better than more teams that we end up getting into a fight with that we probably wouldn’t even need to. We would be outplaying them, like we should.
We also have two defensive full backs. My guess is that there will be an adaptation in this area of the field, with one, or both, in rotation - moving in field to help with the defensive side of the midfield. If that works, then Ole would do that, because he’d see it as more beneficial for the team if he is getting the best form from Paul Pogba than if he’s getting the best football from Luke Shaw, if that’s the choice he has to make.
We’ll see how it goes, but there’s absolutely no chance Pogba will be some sort of squad player. He’ll either play or leave.
All fair points as well I guess , even if it's not my same point of view. As you said, let's see how it goes from now on. There're still a lot of matches to be played and we'll have more than enough time to test all possible combinations and see what's the best one.
It depends on who we are playing. In games vs mid table or less, we will definitely play a 3 with Pogba, Bruno and one other, probably Fred or McT. In big games, I can actually see us moving Bruno defensively to the right but playing a free role in attack, meaning we can have Fred, McT, Pogba AND Bruno playing. He could even play a false 9 with Rashford and Martial as left and right inside forwards. Ultimately in the big games we need to have our best players on the field, even if one of them is out of position. Otherwise, we are back to Mata on the right, Lingered on the right or Mason, all of whom are playing out of position anyway!
Yea, ultimately that’s the point of having a quality squad with quality options really. We’ll be switching things around, and I suspect the teams with the most quality depth and tactical flexibility will be the ones on the podiums at the month.
There's plenty of games to find out the best option. I think Matic, Pogba and Bruno should start the first game though.