Who gets the 3rd midfield slot: Fred or McTominay

As much as I love fred he is in no way shape or form a dm. He still loses balls but good thing is he's greatly improved on his recovery. Most of this has happened when he's higher up the pitch therefore the results are not as catastrophic as would be were he to be permanently stationed just outside our box.
In my opinion a third midfielder in a pogba/bruno threesome would have to forfeit bombing forward as fred is wont to do. Forcing him back will be stifling what makes fred fred, and allowing him freedom leaves us quite vulnerable with no buffer between our attack and defense. This will be needed against some teams but would not recommend against the bigger sides

Therefore I go with scott
 
“Easy” games
Fred / McTominay (I prefer Fred)
Pogba
Bruno

“Difficult” games
Matic
Pogba / Fred / McTominay (Pogba if his head is in it, otherwise Fred)
Bruno
 
How could people forget Matic who was instrumental in the run in to the lockdown, and also our only DM in the squad - this is important when we play both Pogba and Bruno in midfield.

It'd be a tough call for Ole, as Fred doesn't deserve to be dropped
 
Wednesday at Stoke said:
With 5 subs allowed, it would make a ton of sense to rotate one midfielder every half at the beginning of the restart.
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These aren't friendly games where you rotate at half time to give players game times. You make subs when needed, not just because you have substitutions available. No manager worth their pay would be making half time subs to disrupt his game flow, unless needed and necessary.
 
I think Pogba needs to prove himself, try to impress when he got the chance.

But against Spurs, you want all your best players playing.. so this is hard for Ole.

If i have to pick? Probably McT.
 
I’m not sure why people are assuming Bruno is going to play as an out and out 10. He’s played as more of an 8 so far and covers a lot of ground defensively too.

I think we’ll play it safe against Spurs and go with Matic, Fred and Bruno. Not convinced that Ole will want to bring Pogba straight back in.
 
Dan_F said:
I’m not sure why people are assuming Bruno is going to play as an out and out 10. He’s played as more of an 8 so far and covers a lot of ground defensively too.

I think we’ll play it safe against Spurs and go with Matic, Fred and Bruno. Not convinced that Ole will want to bring Pogba straight back in.
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Bruno looks like a natural number 10 from what we saw of him before the league closed, Pogba is best suited to the box-to-box role (in my opinion), leaving one of Fred, Mctominay, and Matic to cover the DM position. Fred has the engine to play B2B, too, as does Mctominay.

There are so many options available to Ole right now. None of which include Lingard or Periera, who are being moved on at the end of the season according to rumors.
 
Do people forget how bad Pogba-Matic were, doubt Bruno would balance that ship. Matic needs either one of Fred or McT to provide the legs, else our midfield will get over ran full of holes. Bruno doesn't excel defensively, good workrate but he's really not.

Let's see how Fred fares first.

If not, then easily McTominay.
 
I think all of them will be rotated - including Pogba and Fernandes tbh. I suspect Matic will start first though.
 
We played 4 CMs vs Everton away, we might start with that formation and then mixing things up later with Greenwood and James coming on.
 
MAME DIOUF 32 said:
I like this

Fred
McTominay Pogba
Fernandes

But, Wan-Bissaka is the wrong right back to have for that kind of narrow formation.
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I disagree. In big games we play with split strikers, they often play between the WB & CB and can cover as needed defensively, with Bruno furthest forward sitting between the CB's. In attack they break between the lines and so can Pogba, Fernandes or Pogba through the middle. Therefore we don't rely on the RB & LB to get forward.

I expect we'll play this in big games and play an otherwise aggressive 4-3-3 with Fred or McT as CDM against most of the league.
 
Santoryo said:
These aren't friendly games where you rotate at half time to give players game times. You make subs when needed, not just because you have substitutions available. No manager worth their pay would be making half time subs to disrupt his game flow, unless needed and necessary.
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I hate to break it to you but there is a reason why 5 subs are allowed and thrusting players into PL intensity after an 8 week break with no warm up games is a recipe for injury.
 
It's likely to be McTominay. Ole started the season with Pogba and McTominay as the midfield 2 with a hard working number 10 (Pereira) ahead of them. It's his preferred system and was clearly his plan to fit Bruno into.

Ole doesn't play a holding midfielder and a box to box. He plays a ball winner and a playmaker. If you play Pogba you need someone next to him with defensive nous and lots of energy to win the ball.

To start a game, it would always be one of Pogba/Fred with one of McTominay/Matic.

Pogba/McTominay will likely be first choice because Pogba is the best player.

Fred and McTominay are the 2 that complement each other's styles best. Fred is better on the ball, McTominay better at winning the ball and they both contribute offensively and defensively.

Fred and Matic work well together too. Fred's energy makes up for Matic's languid style and Matic adds extra creativity over McTominay.

Pogba and Matic are the weakest combination of the 2. They're a very pedestrian pair and it impacts the energy and tempo the team can play at.

I could only see a midfield pair of Pogba and Fred when chasing a game or McTominay and Matic when protecting a lead.
 
Web of Bissaka said:
Do people forget how bad Pogba-Matic were, doubt Bruno would balance that ship. Matic needs either one of Fred or McT to provide the legs, else our midfield will get over ran full of holes. Bruno doesn't excel defensively, good workrate but he's really not.

Let's see how Fred fares first.

If not, then easily McTominay.
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Pogba + Matic isn't really that bad. We had that partnership in our midfield in 17/18 and we finished 2nd in the league. Our defensive record that season wasn't bad either. You may argue Matic has declined over the past two years, and that someone has to provide the legs for certain big matches (like Herrera did), but in general this partnership is good enough to handle most of the games.
 
The Original said:
Matic I think may be the surprise choice. He's the one who has played the withdrawn midfield position the most so far, and he has played it well.
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He's terribly immobile. He struggles to cover enough ground when he has a partner. If he's left there on his own he'll be overrun. It's got to be either McTominay or Fred on that basis.
 
I really dont think the two will work in a 3. Bruno will end up being given a more free role further forward in all but the easiest games.
 
Fred is the most dribbled past player per 90 mins in the top 5 European leagues and his tackle success rate is something like 41%.

Putting him alongside Bruno and Pogba in a midfield 3 is suicidal.
 
I was one of the few posters defending Fred when he first joined. But things have turned too far the other way on the Forum these days, imo.

Fred seems to be getting overrated simply for not being shit. It's great that that he's turned the corner, but his game wouldn't get him considered as much more than a continuity player at any other decent side. And even since his upturn in form, he still gets easily bullied when the other team decide to put him under any pressure.

McTominay may not be a world beater, but he has fewer exploitable weaknesses and offers more of a threat in the opposition half. You might lose a bit in terms of long range passing, but you gain more overall. I think he's clearly the superior player.
 
Depends on so many factors - who we are playing against, who is playing in attack and obviously who is in form.

I think if we have an inform Pogba and an inform Bruno playing behind an inform rashford then its a case of taking turns. If not then fred gets the nod against teams that deploy technically able I midfielders.

I do favour Fred over Mctominay because he is agile, left footed and he does give his all so to speak. Mctominay will give his all and will get stuck in but he isn't as good at holding the ball as Fred under pressure.
 
predator said:
Depends on so many factors - who we are playing against, who is playing in attack and obviously who is in form.

I think if we have an inform Pogba and an inform Bruno playing behind an inform rashford then its a case of taking turns. If not then fred gets the nod against teams that deploy technically able I midfielders.

I do favour Fred over Mctominay because he is agile, left footed and he does give his all so to speak. Mctominay will give his all and will get stuck in but he isn't as good at holding the ball as Fred under pressure.
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That's the exact opposite of the situation, imo. McTominay's ball shielding is some of the best you'll see, whereas Fred's touch under pressure often turns to shit.
 
Dante said:
That's the exact opposite of the situation, imo. McTominay's ball shielding is some of the best you'll see, whereas Fred's touch under pressure often turns to shit.
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Nah. McTominay is strong but Fred is sharper in a tight spot. The reality, though, is that they’re both horrible for losing the ball in their own half, particularly on the turn. It’s why Matic remains the necessary evil. The problem with that is that I think Matic and Pogba make for an unworkable duo. They need one of McTominay or Fred to complement them. The problem there is that we’re sitting on four midfielders, including Bruno.

If Pogba is to work most effectively in a two, we need some sort of Carrick-Kante hybrid of a player.
 
@Dante

Fair enough. Admittedly and frustratingly, I agree about freds touch - it can be dire but I think he is the better midifielder with everything considered. His performance against psg in Paris for me was invaluable. He has the ability to outmanoevre the likes of Verrati, Silva and dare I say top wingers aswell. Scott on the other hand would struggle against technically gifted players, especially in a match where we are being outpossesed.

In other circumstances Scott thrives but overall I fred deserves the spot.
 
MAME DIOUF 32 said:
Fred is player of the season as far as I'm concerned so he's in the team. I start with a high work rate midfield of Fred, McTominay and Fernandes, unless Ole's somehow come up with a way to suddenly start getting the best out of Pogba during the break.
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I agree. Now Pogba’s back isn’t he conversation all I can keep thinking are negative thoughts of “he doesn’t do this” (track runners) or “he can’t do this” (be positionally responsible for 90 minutes), etc.
 
hmchan said:
It's a classical way to set up the midfield with a holding midfielder who sits in front of the backline, a box-to-box who has the freedom to go forward, and a creative playmaker who is responsible for creating chances. This sytem provides balance to the team and it is so popular that most teams adopt it. Many teams have achieved success with this setup over the years too. In this sense, it is reasonable for someone mentioning Matic here because he's basically the most apparent option for the holding role right now.

There is one complicating factor though. It seems that Ole doesn't stick to this system all the time, not sure if he thinks Matic is not good enough or he's not a fan of this system at all. At the beginning of the season, he picked McTominay alongisde Pogba and gave both of them the license to break forward. The same applied to the partnership of Fred and McTominay after Pogba was injured. It's interesting to see how he'll arrange the midfield when all the options are available.
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I'd say Ole is a touch unpredictable with regards which formation he would go with.
He could opt for 343/3412 but even then we would need three midfielders. I think Bruno is nailed on starter and it's only left to choose between Pogba, Fred, Matic and McT. I am pretty confident Pogba will be on the bench. May be McT too, since he was out recently. We'll have to wait and see. I'm so curious what the first line up will be after the restart.
 
Pavl3n said:
I'd say Ole is a touch unpredictable with regards which formation he would go with.
He could opt for 343/3412 but even then we would need three midfielders. I think Bruno is nailed on starter and it's only left to choose between Pogba, Fred, Matic and McT. I am pretty confident Pogba will be on the bench. May be McT too, since he was out recently. We'll have to wait and see. I'm so curious what the first line up will be after the restart.
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Are you guys seriously grouping Pogba together with Fred, Matic and Scott as non sure starters? Unless you're trying to imply anything to do with Pogba's fitness(which shouldn't be a problem by now), there is simply no rational in thinking that Pogba isn't a nail on starter. Since when did this idea that Pogba would need to fight for his place and prove himself against the likes of Fred, Matic and Scott started.

It's such a ridiculous thing that keeps getting mentioned for some reasons.
 
Based Adnan said:
Fred is the most dribbled past player per 90 mins in the top 5 European leagues and his tackle success rate is something like 41%.

Putting him alongside Bruno and Pogba in a midfield 3 is suicidal.
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Does this stat take in to fact that even if he is dribbled pass he sticks to that person like glue and inevitably gets back at them and take the ball off of the,.

He‘s arguably the most dogged player we’ve had in quite some time it’s like there is no shaking him. He will repeatedly keep putting his foot in slowing people up forcing an error even if he’s not coming away with the ball 60% of the time.

I do think both he and McT do take a lot of risks in their own half compared to someone like a Matic but when it comes off it comes off in a big way and if Fred continues playing like he was pre lockdown with Bruno there is just no way he can be dropped. he was pretty much everything to the team and everywhere.
 
Has to be Matic.

Problem is that none of the three are suited. Matic is the best at sitting deep and protecting the ball under pressure, but his immobility is a big problem when paired with Pogba.

Fred is as good as Matic at dictating from deep but is poor defensively. He is very easily bypassed. And McTominay is the best ball winner of the three, but can't dictate from deep and is poor under pressure. These two, like Pogba, are best suited playing next to a player who can not only sit and dictate from deep, but can cover a lot of the field, too. Unless they're playing together in which won't happen with Pogba and Bruno here.

Kag said:
Nah. McTominay is strong but Fred is sharper in a tight spot. The reality, though, is that they’re both horrible for losing the ball in their own half, particularly on the turn. It’s why Matic remains the necessary evil. The problem with that is that I think Matic and Pogba make for an unworkable duo. They need one of McTominay or Fred to complement them. The problem there is that we’re sitting on four midfielders, including Bruno.

If Pogba is to work most effectively in a two, we need some sort of Carrick-Kante hybrid of a player.
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I completely agree.

As for your last sentence, the player for me would be Sofyan Amrabat. He's also got some Arthur in him in the way he turns away from pressure. Unfortunately, Fiorentina have just signed him.
 
TrustInJanuzaj said:
Personally I think it will be Fred. I understand people will say that midfield is too porous but at this current time Fred is the better player and has had a better overall season compared to McTomminay. A lot of our defensive shape will have to rely on both Pogba and Fernandes tracking back and also more cover from our fullbacks. It’s certainly got exciting potential.
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For me if we play a 3 with Pogba and Fernandes then it has to be Mctominay simply because he's more defensively minded . I'm not saying he's better than Fred but in that role id prefer him
 
Dante said:
I was one of the few posters defending Fred when he first joined. But things have turned too far the other way on the Forum these days, imo.

Fred seems to be getting overrated simply for not being shit. It's great that that he's turned the corner, but his game wouldn't get him considered as much more than a continuity player at any other decent side. And even since his upturn in form, he still gets easily bullied when the other team decide to put him under any pressure.

McTominay may not be a world beater, but he has fewer exploitable weaknesses and offers more of a threat in the opposition half. You might lose a bit in terms of long range passing, but you gain more overall. I think he's clearly the superior player.
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Fred is overrated mostly because Mctominay got injured in December, up to that point, it was quite clear Mctominay was having the better season. Matic has also been better than Fred since coming back in my opinion. Fans of Herrera are the people who like Fred because their games are similar. They press heavily without much success and are adequate at stringing passes together against lower opposition teams. What people don't see is that both have a poor sense of positioning both in and out of possession and are primary reasons for why we struggle to bring the ball out of defence at times. In addition to this, Fred in particular has a poor first touch and in big games where pressure is highest, he frequently loses possession for us, meanwhile Mctominay, even though seeming less busy, consistently wins aerial duels, interceptions and tackles in those games. In addition, in possession, Fred is not great at driving with the ball and neither he nor Mctominay as of yet are good at creating or scoring chances, even though Mctominay is showing vast improvements in the latter. Mctominay barely makes mistakes in the game, gives us a certain steel in midfield, can hold the ball and has good balance and agility which allows him to drive forward. His passing isn't great but it is much better than it was prior and is clearly being worked on given his small level of experience. He is not great at dictating the tempo of games and may never be, but has shown the propensity to make good passing decisions in tough situations, something that Fred constantly fails at. Fred is a solid bench option in my opinion, and in truth the 50m price tag, the previous exposure he had at Shakhtar, despite his failings last season and his busy game make our fans feel that he is much better than he actually is. For me he could become a really solid utility player here given how many midfield roles he can cover.

Aside from performance, another factor is that both Mctominay and Matic' weaknesses can be masked by playing alongside both Pogba and Bruno, which will allow them focus on the areas they are best at. Fred's non stop pressing would expose the midfield. He may be useful for games against lower quality opposition in which we need to break down a deep block, but aside from that, playing him alongside Pogba makes no sense.
 
hmchan said:
Pogba + Matic isn't really that bad. We had that partnership in our midfield in 17/18 and we finished 2nd in the league. Our defensive record that season wasn't bad either. You may argue Matic has declined over the past two years, and that someone has to provide the legs for certain big matches (like Herrera did), but in general this partnership is good enough to handle most of the games.
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True, Matic is that good with Pogba in 2 men midfield that season but only the first half, remember how we had to reverted back to 3 men midfield with Herrera (or McTominay) later that season. Matic is no longer that same Matic.
 
I'm not sure why Pogba starts ahead of either.

He basically hasn't played in a year and our midfield has actually started looking good without him.

When we play him and get overun in midfield no doubt we'll end up back to people on here looking for reasons why it isn't Pogba's job to do his job properly.
 
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