Which of our player's fit Amorim's style/tactics particularly well or poorly?

jamesjimmybyrondean said:
From the videos and analysis I’ve seen, I’d say players that fit are

Amad - probably our most suitable winger for the inside forward role

Hojlund - Played a similar role as Gyokeres in Atalanta

Onana - Ball playing keeper

Ugarte - Ex player

De Ligt - Think he would suit the CCB role

Yoro - Good at defending wide spaces and ball recovery which is needed for Amorim’s RCB

Garnacho - This is a prediction but I think he fits the left wing back role. Garnacho is good at 1v1 situations (though inconsistent) and can go inside or outside . These are the types of situations i often see the typical Amorim full back involved

Mount - excelled in the inside forward role at chelsea
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Agreed except for Garnacho who can’t defend.

Shaw would excel at LCB if he could stay fit.

Onana
Yoro Maguire Shaw
Mazraoui Ugarte Eriksen Dalot
Mount Bruno
Höjlund

De Ligt can replace Maguire.
Mainoo can replace Eriksen.
Martinez will replace Shaw.
Garnacho or Amad can replace Mount.
 
MadDogg said:
I originally thought the same, but the issue is that Garnacho is right footed. I'm guessing that Amorim plays his wingbacks on the same side as their dominant foot? Obviously you're in a much better position to know that though, so maybe I'm wrong. I see you've put Amad Diallo on the right, where once again he's actually a leftfooter (and I suspect won't be physical enough to play that role)
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No, on the contrary. Quenda and Geny, both originally wingers, are left-footed and play as RWB.

Normally he prefers it that way because if that player is fast, he can dribble the oponent and pass through him to the line but he can also dribble him cutting inside. If he is a left footed playing on the left, he will 90% of the times dribble him through exterior area (winning the line). If he is skillfull, very fast and right-footed on the left, he is less predictable cause he can dribble the oponent cutting inside or passing through him accelerating from the outside.

PS - To everyone who has thanked for the post, you're welcome, it's a pleasure. Obviously y'all know so much more about Utd and Utd players than me, someone who follows the team only from time to time. There might be a lot of mistakes in the way I see/analyse United players, and I'm sorry for that (and for the poor english as well), just hope it can contribute somehow. All the best, mates.
 
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Hammondo said:
I don't see Rashford fitting in.
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Rashford in his current form and mindset, he won't fit into any manager's system.

A slightly more discipline and productive Rashford, can play under 3412, cut in from the left. Whether he will be 1st choice is another matter, because forward/wingers now dow to 2 positions for grap.
 
cyril C said:
Rashford in his current form and mindset, he won't fit into any manager's system.

A slightly more discipline and productive Rashford, can play under 3412, cut in from the left. Whether he will be 1st choice is another matter, because forward/wingers now dow to 2 positions for grap.
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As is always the case, Rashford is the only player in our squad who does have the potential in him to bring us from a barely 6th place level to a top 4 squad. Super hard to predict and unreliable, but he is the only one with that talent
 
Borys said:
For all of those analysis, he ain't coming here to drop Rashford, at least not in first half a season. Fully expect us to play classic 4231, maybe with a slightly different, more "modern" role of midfielders, but he'll still give it a try with Rashford in whatever position. Because of this, all analysis about how Amorims style of football make little sense imo. He will need to compromise from day one.
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So he needs to abandon the system that makes him successful and main reason of why we hire him, to embrace a new system just because we don't have the players?

It sounds extremely familiar.
 
Borys said:
For all of those analysis, he ain't coming here to drop Rashford, at least not in first half a season. Fully expect us to play classic 4231, maybe with a slightly different, more "modern" role of midfielders, but he'll still give it a try with Rashford in whatever position. Because of this, all analysis about how Amorims style of football make little sense imo. He will need to compromise from day one.
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It doesn't make any sense for INEOS to hire him just for him to completely switch to a system he has never coached before.

It's like signing a CB and expecting him to play DM even though he has never play there in his entire career and you're just hoping he learns on the job.
 
jamesjimmybyrondean said:
From the videos and analysis I’ve seen, I’d say players that fit are

Amad - probably our most suitable winger for the inside forward role

Hojlund - Played a similar role as Gyokeres in Atalanta

Onana - Ball playing keeper

Ugarte - Ex player

De Ligt - Think he would suit the CCB role

Yoro - Good at defending wide spaces and ball recovery which is needed for Amorim’s RCB

Garnacho - This is a prediction but I think he fits the left wing back role. Garnacho is good at 1v1 situations (though inconsistent) and can go inside or outside . These are the types of situations i often see the typical Amorim full back involved

Mount - excelled in the inside forward role at chelsea
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How about Rashford in the RWB role?
Every tactical video analysis mentions that one of the two wingbacks (actually the right one) is more attacking.
I can really see Rashford in that role. Crosses to the striker, or dribbling to the byline and cutting back to the RAM.
With Yoro sitting behind Rashford and Ugarte in the ball winning midfielder there will be more attacking than defensive responsibilites for Rashford.

-----------------Hojlund
--------Bruno------------Amad
Shaw--Maino--Ugarte--Rashford
----Martinez---De Ligt-----Yoro



Screenshot-from-2024-11-05-11-49-02.png
 
themanguydude said:
It doesn't make any sense for INEOS to hire him just for him to completely switch to a system he has never coached before.

It's like signing a CB and expecting him to play DM even though he has never play there in his entire career and you're just hoping he learns on the job.
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All I'm saying, he will be facing a Rashford dilemma from day one, dilemma multiplied by 10 as apart from being in poor form, he doesn't fit his style of football. But it's also guaranteed he's not dropping Rashford anytime soon. And that will have a huge impact on how the team is set up.
 
Isotope said:
So he needs to abandon the system that makes him successful and main reason of why we hire him, to embrace a new system just because we don't have the players?

It sounds extremely familiar.
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Not sure if the system is the reason he was hired, I have seen some analysis he was actually quite flexible and was able to adjust to the situation, something that ETH always struggled with badly.

I also don't think it's a problem with managers 100%, players like Rashford who only play certain way of football and what he delivers does not justify the limitation he enforces on the team setup.
 
Pavl3n said:
How about Rashford in the RWB role?
Every tactical video analysis mentions that one of the two wingbacks (actually the right one) is more attacking.
I can really see Rashford in that role. Crosses to the striker, or dribbling to the byline and cutting back to the RAM.
With Yoro sitting behind Rashford and Ugarte in the ball winning midfielder there will be more attacking than defensive responsibilites for Rashford.

-----------------Hojlund
--------Bruno------------Amad
Shaw--Maino--Ugarte--Rashford
----Martinez---De Ligt-----Yoro



Screenshot-from-2024-11-05-11-49-02.png
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I’m not sure the answer to scoring goals lies in moving the only player we have who has ever shown they are capable of scoring 25/30 goals further from goal.
 
I have to write an article on this which lead me to loads of research on the matter. Having said that I am far from an expert on Amorim. Here's what I think

GK: We're good

CB Amorim expects CBs to be good ball playing CBs who can cover the rear flanks if needed and with the central CB be able to help CM. I can see Yoro (RCB), Martinez (LCB) and De Ligt (CB) fit into that system

Wingbacks: Amorim loves his wingbacks to be able to defend but also be able to hug the line and cross. He's not that obsessed with titles. In fact he played both wingers and Wingbacks in those roles. I can see Dalot and Mazraoui fit into the wingback roles with United buying a LWB in the future. For the time being I can see Amorim trying Antony, Diallo and Garnacho in those roles as well

DM: Ugarte. Its as simple as that. In time he'll bring another aggressive ball winning CM to act as cover.
MC: Amorim loves his no 8 to be able to be aggressive and be able to both defend and move forward with the ball. Mainoo would probably suit that role. Casemiro can act as cover while Mount can do the trick if he remains fit

AMC: Amorim seem to like to pair an inside forward with a more traditional no 10. Again he's not obsessed with roles. However both need to be able to create alot and work hard. Goncalvez has 5 assists and 5 goals in 11 games while Trincao has 7 assists and 3 goals in 16 games. Rashford/Garnacho/Amad/Bruno can only dream of such stats.

STK: Hojlund will probably fit the bill. Zirkzee less so. If the latter doesn't improve then I can see him being sold and United bringing in a natural STK

As you can see we're not in a bad state. However we're heading to a time were very painful decisions need to be made especially around the forward line. They need to either score/make assists on a regular basis or they need to leave the club
 
The biggest question will be Rashford. I don't see how he fits into this tactical set up. His work rate is too low to press and he's not effective as a CF and doubt his ego to take playing a WB role.

Amorim doesn't play with a true DM, so Ugarte will hugely benefit as he's not a traditional anchor DM, but a ball winner who can get box to box and who should thrive in this setup. Bruno would also pleasantly surprise in the other CM role or as one of the inside forwards. I think a lot of Bruno's issues is he hasn't been used in the right tactical plan and being asked to do too much. Playing in a more disciplined set up will help him quite a bit. Casemiro and Eriksen I don't see a role for, they just don't have the legs to be in an active setup like this. Mainoo will be fine. Mount could be fantastic if he can ever be fit.

The wingbacks will be interesting as Amorim has no qualms playing wingers there and even likes himself to have one of them inverted. Although he expects them to track back when out of possession, he doesn't have high expectations in actual defending, so a player like Amad or Garanacho could actually excel here, especially Amad being a 2 footed player. Much of the attacking creation comes from these wingbacks spots.

We did good business at CB last summer and we should have no problems there at all. Also opens the door to keeping Maguire, who I've been a huge critic of, but in fairness, he's kicked on since being demoted and shown he is a true professional and could be of good use as a part time starter / squad player. Having quality depth is important.

Up front, Hojlund will absolutely feast. This is a perfect set up for him. Overall our weakest area though. Lot's of potential, but hasn't been realized on the pitch. Rashford doesn't fit well in this system and I don't see Zirkzee having much of a role other than as backup for Rasmus; he's just too slow even if he is good at linking up play. Definitely need to look at bringing in some experienced forwards to take the pressure off the kids and let them develop.

GK, I'm not a huge fan of Onana, but this is the prefect system for him to showcase his skill set.
 
devilish said:
I have to write an article on this which lead me to loads of research on the matter. Having said that I am far from an expert on Amorim. Here's what I think

GK: We're good

CB Amorim expects CBs to be good ball playing CBs who can cover the rear flanks if needed and with the central CB be able to help CM. I can see Yoro (RCB), Martinez (LCB) and De Ligt (CB) fit into that system

Wingbacks: Amorim loves his wingbacks to be able to defend but also be able to hug the line and cross. He's not that obsessed with titles. In fact he played both wingers and Wingbacks in those roles. I can see Dalot and Mazraoui fit into the wingback roles with United buying a LWB in the future. For the time being I can see Amorim trying Antony, Diallo and Garnacho in those roles as well

DM: Ugarte. Its as simple as that. In time he'll bring another aggressive ball winning CM to act as cover.
MC: Amorim loves his no 8 to be able to be aggressive and be able to both defend and move forward with the ball. Mainoo would probably suit that role. Casemiro can act as cover while Mount can do the trick if he remains fit

AMC: Amorim seem to like to pair an inside forward with a more traditional no 10. Again he's not obsessed with roles. However both need to be able to create alot and work hard. Goncalvez has 5 assists and 5 goals in 11 games while Trincao has 7 assists and 3 goals in 16 games. Rashford/Garnacho/Amad/Bruno can only dream of such stats.

STK: Hojlund will probably fit the bill. Zirkzee less so. If the latter doesn't improve then I can see him being sold and United bringing in a natural STK

As you can see we're not in a bad state. However we're heading to a time were very painful decisions need to be made especially around the forward line. They need to either score/make assists on a regular basis or they need to leave the club
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Good write up. This idea that De ligt can play as the central defender is one I have questions about. It's been mentioned everywhere, even on MNF. Thing is though, everyone also says that CB is expected to push up into midfield as you alluded to. Ranking our CBs on how well they can play in midfield, not sure I'd put De ligt in the 3 of that list. I reckon Lisandro, Yoro and probably Lindelof are better there. I guess we'll find out in a couple of weeks.
 
FrankWhite said:
Good write up. This idea that De ligt can play as the central defender is one I have questions about. It's been mentioned everywhere, even on MNF. Thing is though, everyone also says that CB is expected to push up into midfield as you alluded to. Ranking our CBs on how well they can play in midfield, not sure I'd put De ligt in the 3 of that list. I reckon Lisandro, Yoro and probably Lindelof are better there. I guess we'll find out in a couple of weeks.
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De Ligt can play as that CB. He's got good technique, his passing is top notch, he's quite aggressive and he's got ample height. My only issue with De Ligt is that he's not very fast. That 3 men CB is not the quickest (Yoro is, the rest not that much). However the same can be said about Lindelof.

https://onefootball.com/en/news/de-ligt-i-used-to-play-in-midfield-29249367
 
RCB/RWB (depending on if we use Mazraoui as RCB or RWB)
LWB
CM/#8
CF

These are the positions I would target.

Onana/Bayindir

Yoro/RCB
MDL/Maguire
Martinez/Shaw/Evans

RWB/Dalot
CM/Ugarte
Mainoo/Casemiro
LWB/Shaw/Amass

Bruno/Mount
Amad/Garnacho
Hojlund/CF
 
acnumber9 said:
I’m not sure the answer to scoring goals lies in moving the only player we have who has ever shown they are capable of scoring 25/30 goals further from goal.
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You have a point.
I just believe Hojlund has the potential to surpass Goykeres' numbers under Amorim, should he get the right service.


But since you said bring Rashford as close as possible to the goal I'm starting to think the ST role for him.
Just not sure where does Garnacho fit with all that.
 
My own 2 cents
Onana
Yoro De Ligt Martinez
Mazaroui Ugarte Casemiro Mainoo Garnacho (or Amad)
Hojlund Rashford
 
sugar_kane said:
Does Ruben have divine healing powers?
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Not really but he’ll be bringing the head of the Sporting’s fitness/physycal/performance department (a Sports scientist focused on preventing injuries and improving Players’ performance) along with him. Might help a lil.
 
Pavl3n said:
Just not sure where does Garnacho fit with all that.
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Clearly LWB.

Probably the RWB will be a little less advanced in the field (Dalot or Mazraoui) to allow Garnacho to press higher on the left flank when off the ball (joining the two CM at the centre and Bruno on the right) and to be more free. The left forward (Mount? Signing?) will probably press on the centre along with the ST.

Offensive structure

Onana
Yoro/Lindelof, De Ligt, Lisandro
Ugarte, Mainoo
Dalot/Mazraoui, Garnacho
Bruno, ?
Hojlund

For defensive transitions:

Onana
Dalot, Yoro/Lindelof, De Ligt, Lisandro
Bruno, Ugarte, Mainoo, Garnacho
Hojlund, ?

It can be Bruno on the ? and the question mark where Bruno is as well.
 
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Borys said:
For all of those analysis, he ain't coming here to drop Rashford, at least not in first half a season. Fully expect us to play classic 4231, maybe with a slightly different, more "modern" role of midfielders, but he'll still give it a try with Rashford in whatever position. Because of this, all analysis about how Amorims style of football make little sense imo. He will need to compromise from day one.
Click to expand...

He needs to stick firmly to his prefered setup or it will be Ten Hag all over again.
 
PieCrust said:
The biggest question will be Rashford. I don't see how he fits into this tactical set up. His work rate is too low to press and he's not effective as a CF and doubt his ego to take playing a WB role.

Amorim doesn't play with a true DM, so Ugarte will hugely benefit as he's not a traditional anchor DM, but a ball winner who can get box to box and who should thrive in this setup. Bruno would also pleasantly surprise in the other CM role or as one of the inside forwards. I think a lot of Bruno's issues is he hasn't been used in the right tactical plan and being asked to do too much. Playing in a more disciplined set up will help him quite a bit. Casemiro and Eriksen I don't see a role for, they just don't have the legs to be in an active setup like this. Mainoo will be fine. Mount could be fantastic if he can ever be fit.

The wingbacks will be interesting as Amorim has no qualms playing wingers there and even likes himself to have one of them inverted. Although he expects them to track back when out of possession, he doesn't have high expectations in actual defending, so a player like Amad or Garanacho could actually excel here, especially Amad being a 2 footed player. Much of the attacking creation comes from these wingbacks spots.

We did good business at CB last summer and we should have no problems there at all. Also opens the door to keeping Maguire, who I've been a huge critic of, but in fairness, he's kicked on since being demoted and shown he is a true professional and could be of good use as a part time starter / squad player. Having quality depth is important.

Up front, Hojlund will absolutely feast. This is a perfect set up for him. Overall our weakest area though. Lot's of potential, but hasn't been realized on the pitch. Rashford doesn't fit well in this system and I don't see Zirkzee having much of a role other than as backup for Rasmus; he's just too slow even if he is good at linking up play. Definitely need to look at bringing in some experienced forwards to take the pressure off the kids and let them develop.

GK, I'm not a huge fan of Onana, but this is the prefect system for him to showcase his skill set.
Click to expand...

I think Zirkzee ought to be well suited to one of the inside forward roles, if he's not played as a striker. Provided of course he's able to play better than he has so far, otherwise it won't matter what position he plays in.

I don't see Amad having the physical tools for a wingback role.
 
Most compatible: Mount and Bruno
Least compatible: Zirkzee, Eriksen and Rashford
 
Lyng said:
He needs to stick firmly to his prefered setup or it will be Ten Hag all over again.
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I am confused now. Isn't this what in the end got Ten Hag sacked?

There is no black or white answer here. If we're speaking long term, he will be shifting towards any preferred setup surely. All I'm saying, he ain't dropping Rashford, and I am 100% sure he has no role to play in his system. Therefore, Ruben will be spinning, flipping, sliding trying to fit Marcus in, until inevitably he decides he can't play modern football relying on him. What happens next, difficult to say. But we're not benching/dropping Rashford anytime soon.
 
Borys said:
I am confused now. Isn't this what in the end got Ten Hag sacked?

There is no black or white answer here. If we're speaking long term, he will be shifting towards any preferred setup surely. All I'm saying, he ain't dropping Rashford, and I am 100% sure he has no role to play in his system. Therefore, Ruben will be spinning, flipping, sliding trying to fit Marcus in, until inevitably he decides he can't play modern football relying on him. What happens next, difficult to say. But we're not benching/dropping Rashford anytime soon.
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No he abandoned his Ajax tactics to accommodate the players and instead we got some weird tactic that didn't work at all.
 
I know he’s rightly not the most popular player but doesn’t anyone else think that Anthony could be a pretty interesting option as a left wingback. He would obviously have to work on his delivery at times but I think he’s one of the few wide players we have that can go both ways. I think of our current wingers he’s the only one I can actually see in that role.
 
Lyng said:
No he abandoned his Ajax tactics to accommodate the players and instead we got some weird tactic that didn't work at all.
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He made a move towards double #10s (bought Mount for it, tried this with Sabitzer/van de Beek in first season), tried inverted fullbacks etc. Not sure if that falls under "accommodate the players" bracket.

ETH failed because of his bad ideas, not because he abandoned Ajax style.
 
Onana
Mazraoui--MDL--Martinez
Dalot--Ugarte--Casemiro--LWB
Amad--Bruno
Hojlund

​
 
Cathy Ferguson said:
Agreed except for Garnacho who can’t defend.

Shaw would excel at LCB if he could stay fit.

Onana
Yoro Maguire Shaw
Mazraoui Ugarte Eriksen Dalot
Mount Bruno
Höjlund

De Ligt can replace Maguire.
Mainoo can replace Eriksen.
Martinez will replace Shaw.
Garnacho or Amad can replace Mount.
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Don't count on Shaw. I already assume he will be out injured again after playing a few games
 
TrustInJanuzaj said:
I know he’s rightly not the most popular player but doesn’t anyone else think that Anthony could be a pretty interesting option as a left wingback. He would obviously have to work on his delivery at times but I think he’s one of the few wide players we have that can go both ways. I think of our current wingers he’s the only one I can actually see in that role.
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I feel like Garnacho 'should' be able to do it, but I also suspect he has too much of an ego to 'want' to do it and would ultimately want to leave to play a more attacking role somewhere else.

Antony is a possibility. Indeed it wouldn't surprise me if he finds it easier to play that role in the PL than he does as a normal winger.

In saying that, from what Sporting fans have said Amorim started off playing fullbacks in those roles for the first couple of seasons (albeit quite attacking ones). It was only later on once his system was fully implemented and all the players used to what they needed to do that he transitioned to one of those players being a winger and then eventually both of them being wingers. I feel like that's likely what will happen here as well, where he will want recognised fullbacks playing those roles while he's getting the system ingrained and then when he feels the team is ready he'll overload the attack through signing actual wingers who he (and the board) feels are suitable to play as wingbacks.
 
When we have a full squad and are away to some of the big teams :
This is the line i will play, with Amad , rashford , garnacho coming on after 70 mins when the opposition tires. We keep the defending strong and the shape compact till 70 mins and then go for the kill .

Onana
Yoro--Deligt--Martinez
Mazraoi-Ugarte--Mainoo--Shaw
Mount--Bruno
Hojlund

When we play at home i will play a much more attacking line up. Picking casemiro as he and ugarte would be a strong shield if the opposition counters and also allow dalot and garnacho to plan higher .

Onana
Yoro--Deligt--Martinez
Dalot--Ugarte--Casemiro--Garnacho
Bruno--Amad
Rashford
 
Borys said:
He made a move towards double #10s (bought Mount for it, tried this with Sabitzer/van de Beek in first season), tried inverted fullbacks etc. Not sure if that falls under "accommodate the players" bracket.

ETH failed because of his bad ideas, not because he abandoned Ajax style.
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He tries everything except sticking with what made him successful at Ajax....
 
I just don’t think shaw is viable as a lwb any more than our wingers to be honest. I think shaw can only play as a left central defender in this system. He already struggles with injuries, he doesn’t have a great engine any more and he can be lazy working in. I think he’s far better suited to the left central defender.
 
Lyng said:
He tries everything except sticking with what made him successful at Ajax....
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He didn't try that much apart from this ridiculous "double #10s" system though. I don't know what made him successful at Ajax, you can share if you've seen this.
 
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