Where do you rank Mason Greenwood as a talent?

RedRonaldo said:
Its more on opinion, Rooney and Mbappe at very young age is already the key player for their team, more of a complete package too. Messi at his first 2 years is more of a fringe player at Barca as he has Ronaldinho, Henry and Etoo ahead of him, Ronaldo is very exciting and electrifying wing wizard at early teenage too but he also has his flaws (diving and showpony)

Messi at 17: 1 goals in 9 games (just starting)
Messi at 18: 8 goals in 26 games (exciting, similar impact to Greenwood)
Messi at 19: 17 goals in 36 games (exciting, one of best young player in the world, alongside with Rooney and Ronaldo)

Cristiano at 17: 5 goals in 31 games as winger at Sporting (good young player)
Cristiano at 18: 6 goals in 40 games as winger at United (exciting player, becoming one of best young player in the world)
Cristiano at 19: 9 goals in 50 games as winger (similar to his first season, exciting player)

Rooney at 17: 8 goals in 37 games (exciting, already first team player for Everton, probably the best young player in the league at age 17)
Rooney at 18: 9 goals in 34 games (exciting, best young player)
Rooney at 19: 17 goals in 43 games (best young player in the world)

Mbappe at 17: 1 goals in 14 games (just starting)
Mbappe at 18: 26 goals in 44 games (best young player in the world, impress in the league and CL)
Mbappe at 19: 21 goals in 42 games (WC winner, best young player in the world)
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Very fair.

Its interesting though because despite being a more mature talent as a teenager Mbappe does not seem like he has the same footballing genius of Ronaldo or Messi. I am probably wrong again though. I can see Mbappe being the best attacker of his generation just not reaching their heights. Maybe. There is a lot of emphasis on his extreme pace and matirity whereas the way Ronaldo and Messo could manipulate a football was otherworldly. And in some ways their teenage years were devoted to developing and refining this. Their efficiency came later.
 
Icemav said:
Hard to have Rooney and even Mbappe above Messi and even Owen. And no way should either be in the same category as Sancho.

Actually thinking about it teenage Cristiano and Messi were on a different level to the new kids even Mbappe.

One thing I will agree with is that L. Ronaldo was perhaps the greatest teenage player we have ever seen.
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Ronaldo above Sancho at the same age? Ronaldo was an exciting talent, but he wasn't some all producing player as a teenager. I feel like you're rewriting history in regards to Ronaldo because of what he became. He was a bit like Felix, who had a lot of talent, and was exciting, but not someone you could say was producing like Sancho or Mbappe produced as teenagers. If Felix puts it together, he could become world class just like Ronaldo did. We now know that Ronaldo did fulfill that potential and then some, but that's besides the point.

edit: I would also like to state that Ronaldo's physique was pretty ideal (evident as a teenager) so he had that projection going for him in a way that I can't attribute to someone like Sancho. I think that factored into the high ceiling of Ronaldo.
 
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Icemav said:
Very fair.

Its interesting though because despite being a more mature talent as a teenager Mbappe does not seem like he has the same footballing genius of Ronaldo or Messi. I am probably wrong again though. I can see Mbappe being the best attacker of his generation just not reaching their heights. Maybe. There is a lot of emphasis on his extreme pace and matirity whereas the way Ronaldo and Messo could manipulate a football was otherworldly. And in some ways their teenage years were devoted to developing and refining this. Their efficiency came later.
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Yeah I also had the same thought. When Mbappe first bursted into the scene all I saw at him was a winger who is really fast, good dribbler but nothing more. It's not until the world cup that I could see how bloody good he was. Incredibly matured for his age. It was his brain that help him stood out. Not something you'd notice easily.

However imo he's reached full of his potential. Usually a young player progresses with time as his physical attributes develop, more experience etc. But the case of Mbappe or Rooney is different. They're already fully matured, both physically and mentally at a very young age so I'd doubt Mbappe would get any better than he's currently is. Still probably the best player in his generation though. Imo he is even one of the best in the world right now. What a player he is.

Our Mason imo is even more naturally blessed than Mbappe. Now it's just a question of how he'd develop. Both physically and mentally.
 
Strelok said:
Yeah I also had the same thought. When Mbappe first bursted into the scene all I saw at him was a winger who is really fast, good dribbler but nothing more. It's not until the world cup that I could see how bloody good he was. Incredibly matured for his age. It was his brain that help him stood out. Not something you'd notice easily.

However imo he's reached full of his potential. Usually a young player progresses with time as his physical attributes develop, more experience etc. But the case of Mbappe or Rooney is different. They're already fully matured, both physically and mentally at a very young age so I'd doubt Mbappe would get any better than he's currently is. Still probably the best player in his generation though. Imo he is even one of the best in the world right now. What a player he is.

Our Mason imo is even more naturally blessed than Mbappe. Now it's just a question of how he'd develop. Both physically and mentally.
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An interesting question is, would you have thought the same of Ronaldo after his 2007-08 season? Physically he was already close to perfect, and had just scored 40+ goals.

I think Mbappe has it in him to have a season like Ronaldo. Odds are against him to produce the freak consistency of Ronaldo, but I can see him having 2-3 seasons of Ronaldo like seasons.
 
In Rainbows said:
Ronaldo above Sancho at the same age? Ronaldo was an exciting talent, but he wasn't some all producing player as a teenager. I feel like you're rewriting history in regards to Ronaldo because of what he became. He was a bit like Felix, who had a lot of talent, and was exciting, but not someone you could say was producing like Sancho or Mbappe produced as teenagers. If Felix puts it together, he could become world class just like Ronaldo did. We now know that Ronaldo did fulfill that potential and then some, but that's besides the point.

edit: I would also like to state that Ronaldo's physique was pretty ideal (evident as a teenager) so he had that projection going for him in a way that I can't attribute to someone like Sancho. I think that factored into the high ceiling of Ronaldo.
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Go watch highlights of Ronaldo as a teenager. The consistent end product wasnt there but he was playing for one of the biggest clubs in the world and routinely humilating opponents. No point comparing him to Sancho imo despite being a very good young player.
 
In Rainbows said:
An interesting question is, would you have thought the same of Ronaldo after his 2007-08 season? Physically he was already close to perfect, and had just scored 40+ goals.

I think Mbappe has it in him to have a season like Ronaldo. Odds are against him to produce the freak consistency of Ronaldo, but I can see him having 2-3 seasons of Ronaldo like seasons.
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Tbh Ronaldo of 2007 - 2008 was already the best version of him imo. He converted himself more toward a striker at his time in Real Madrid but the Ronaldo at United is still his best version imo. The way he influenced games were not just goals.

If Mbappe goes to Real Madrid, he'll get more numbers I think. But he won't get better imo. His physical attributes are already max out. And he already got the "doing the right thing at the right moment". Maybe he'd be a better finisher but he's already a very good finisher. I'd doubt he'd get any better than he currently is.

P/s: I somehow got the impression that you mean if he moves to RM like Ronaldo. If he stays at PSG, his performance would stay more or less the same now imo. Unless PSG has some big revolution in their system and culture. Too much of a Hollywood club right now imho.
 
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Icemav said:
Very fair.

Its interesting though because despite being a more mature talent as a teenager Mbappe does not seem like he has the same footballing genius of Ronaldo or Messi. I am probably wrong again though. I can see Mbappe being the best attacker of his generation just not reaching their heights. Maybe. There is a lot of emphasis on his extreme pace and matirity whereas the way Ronaldo and Messo could manipulate a football was otherworldly. And in some ways their teenage years were devoted to developing and refining this. Their efficiency came later.
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I am not implying Mbappe could reach the height of Messi and Ronaldo once he hit his early mid 20s. Rooney didn’t, and L.Ronaldo didn’t (mostly affected by injuries). Messi and Ronaldo basically move at least a few gear up once they hit they early mid 20s, and keep progressing and progressing with no limit.
 
RedRonaldo said:
I am not implying Mbappe could reach the height of Messi and Ronaldo once he hit his early mid 20s. Rooney didn’t, and L.Ronaldo didn’t (mostly affected by injuries). Messi and Ronaldo basically move at least a few gear up once they hit they early mid 20s, and keep progressing and progressing with no limit.
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Again you are spot on. The metrics for judging teen talent is hard especially when you have players like Rooney and Mbappe who are already physically and mentally mature and closer to their full potential. However watching Messi and Cristiano literally runs circles around oppinents I could never discount this. Less efficient for sure but better according to my tastes. Never did I ever think that Rooney was better or going to be better than Cristiano. But again I am goign off topic.
 
He's benefiting greatly from this current team and set up. Opposing teams have to be wary of the multi threat Utd have going forward, and it must be great to be given that extra room and extra few seconds to be able to get the deadly shot off.
 
Ole'sattheWheel said:
I love Greenwood, I've been watching him for the youth teams for a few years now and rate him higher than any youth player I've ever seen at utd (I've been following the reserves since ~2004).

But am I the only one slightly worried that this huge upturn in form has coincided with us playing in empty stadiums? I don't know if he would be able to keep up this level in the pressure of a packed away game.

There are too many variables to say one way or the other, so for now I'm just going to enjoy the football :)
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This is a fair assessment. He probably feels like he's back in the academy with far superior players around him.

That being said, Mason was very impactful before the pandemic too. He's added 3 goals but he'd scored 12 before that. Now he is even more deadly because he filled out physically, and that's made him more powerful when taking those nudges and pushes from defenders.
 
Icemav said:
Again you are spot on. The metrics for judging teen talent is hard especially when you have players like Rooney and Mbappe who are already physically and mentally mature and closer to their full potential. However watching Messi and Cristiano literally runs circles around oppinents I could never discount this. Less efficient for sure but better according to my tastes. Never did I ever think that Rooney was better or going to be better than Cristiano. But again I am goign off topic.
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Yes it’s really hard to judge young talents or whether they could reach their full potential in future. I never once thought of the possibility of a teenage Messi and Ronaldo would become GOAT type of player, scoring 700+ career goals and winning 5-6 Ballon D’or each. Saying that, I never could imagine players like Owen, Pato, Adriano, Jole Cole, Fowler, or even Janujai could possibly go downhill so quick and getting worse and worse before even reaching their mid 20s.
 
RedRonaldo said:
Yes it’s really hard to judge young talents or whether they could reach their full potential in future. I never once thought of the possibility of a teenage Messi and Ronaldo would become GOAT type of player, scoring 700+ career goals and winning 5-6 Ballon D’or each. Saying that, I never could imagine players like Owen, Pato, Adriano, Jole Cole, Fowler, or even Janujai could possibly go downhill so quick and getting worse and worse before even reaching their mid 20s.
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Definitely. Because it's all in their head. Training is generally fecking boring and tiresome. Lot of pressure. Lot of expectation. Lot of noisy things around. Lot of guys wanting your money. Get up early every day, keep working hard, take care of your body and mind when you're earning millions as a teenager is not easy at all.
 
Eckers99 said:
Rooney was so good at 16/17 that I actually ended up disappointed by him despite him becoming England and United's record goalscorer. He was incredible. I actually thought he had more to his all-round game than Ronaldo when they were both maturing and he should really have pushed himself a bit harder to stay at Ronnie's level. Maybe it came too easily for him and he didn't have the same unbending desire. Few do.
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I thought it was fairly obvious when we played Everton and Ronaldo faced Rooney, that Ronaldo even back then was simply much more talented. Rooney out of frustration ended up try to cut Ronaldo in two.
 
RedRonaldo said:
Its more on opinion, Rooney and Mbappe at very young age is already the key player for their team, more of a complete package too.
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Rooney was playing for Everton though, big difference. He was a “key player” at 18 in a side that just escaped relegation in 17th place.
Greenwood would clearly be a key player at Villa or Watford, he’s quickly becoming a key player for us.
 
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Shades of Fowler and Sturridge in his style of forward play. Sturridge without the injuries is a potential career path although Greenwood seems craftier in engineering space, whereas Sturridge was more blunt. Fowler more apt because in addition to their impeccable finishing they shared a gift for outfoxing defenders in crowded penalty boxes to use their accurate left peg to finish inside the post. I can imagine a similar dynamic at the Euros next year as in 1996 when the young upstart (Fowler/Greenwood) is jostling for a spot in the team ahead of the established centre forward and reference point for the squad (Shearer/Kane). Especially when there are club synergies (McManaman/Fowler and (Rashford/Greenwood) weighing in the kid’s favour.
 
Gio said:
Shades of Fowler and Sturridge in his style of forward play. Sturridge without the injuries is a potential career path although Greenwood seems craftier in engineering space, whereas Sturridge was more blunt. Fowler more apt because in addition to their impeccable finishing they shared a gift for outfoxing defenders in crowded penalty boxes to use their accurate left peg to finish inside the post. I can imagine a similar dynamic at the Euros next year as in 1996 when the young upstart (Fowler/Greenwood) is jostling for a spot in the team ahead of the established centre forward and reference point for the squad (Shearer/Kane). Especially when there are club synergies (McManaman/Fowler and (Rashford/Greenwood) weighing in the kid’s favour.
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The thing is, his right peg appears every bit as strong as his left:drool:

The same can’t be said of the other two:D
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
I thought it was fairly obvious when we played Everton and Ronaldo faced Rooney, that Ronaldo even back then was simply much more talented. Rooney out of frustration ended up try to cut Ronaldo in two.
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I didn't honestly put much emphasis on that game. I think Ronaldo was a bit older and we had a much better side, making it a bit easier for him to shine. I was talking more about their first 18 months to 2 years together at the club.
 
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Regulus Arcturus Black said:
I thought it was fairly obvious when we played Everton and Ronaldo faced Rooney, that Ronaldo even back then was simply much more talented. Rooney out of frustration ended up try to cut Ronaldo in two.
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I remember it this way as well.
Just to add, many people praised Rooney for his Euro 2004 performance. Ronaldo was equally outstanding in that tournament
 
From what i have observed. The comparison of Ronaldo, Rooney and Greenwood.

Finish ability :
Greenwood is the best finisher of those 3. Most sharp and clinical. But Rooney was a good determination sharp finisher too.
Rooney was a wonder kid at this age. Top energy, engine, drive, punch and determination young player. You could easily see he would become one of the best. If he stay away from injury. Because his willing, fighting and winning mentality was at the highest point. Strong physical, but still really really good with the ball. The level of hating to loose was top.

Dribbling and passing ability:
Ronaldo was best of those 3. At a later stage Ronaldo bulk too much and add too much muscle and iron. Then his dribbling and pass players was reduce.
But when you were playing friendly against Manchester United and having fun with them, dribbling the whole team. Its like Roy Keane has never play against a player like that. And whole Manchester United team ask Sir Alex to buy him immediately. You could knew this boy gonna be the next big thing and one of the best player in the world.
Ronaldo had like Rooney. The highest level of fighting and winning mentality. Hating to loose.

So when you have all those abilities. Both physically and mentality, on top level :
Top skills + Top hard working and fighting spirit/top winning mentality + Top luck and things goes your away (The important invisible factor = result of and sum of those abilities = a bright and successful future. You have all the factors/reasons/ingredients and puzzles to make the total picture or a finish top meal.

Top factors/reasons/all ingredients will naturally lead to a top result = success.
Ronaldo and Rooney had everything. But Ronaldo had a bit more. On the highest level with Messi. I could felt it when i saw him play against United. Inside of me was saying. “Go and sign him Sir Alex, ASAP. His talent, hard working and winning mentality was clear as day. A winning head.

So back to Greenwood. Top fighting and winning mentality = it tell you are top aggressive and determination too. Top determination in everything you do. If Greenwood reach the fighting and winning mentality to the top. Keep working hard, only focus on football and lucky that things goes his way. Yeah, i think he will become one of the best too. If all the factors and ingredients are on top level. Then it will lead him on a successful path, to reach a successful. Both collective and individual.
And definitely he is a really exciting player to watch. So exciting time ahead.
 
Strelok said:
Yeah I also had the same thought. When Mbappe first bursted into the scene all I saw at him was a winger who is really fast, good dribbler but nothing more. It's not until the world cup that I could see how bloody good he was. Incredibly matured for his age. It was his brain that help him stood out. Not something you'd notice easily.

However imo he's reached full of his potential. Usually a young player progresses with time as his physical attributes develop, more experience etc. But the case of Mbappe or Rooney is different. They're already fully matured, both physically and mentally at a very young age so I'd doubt Mbappe would get any better than he's currently is. Still probably the best player in his generation though. Imo he is even one of the best in the world right now. What a player he is.

Our Mason imo is even more naturally blessed than Mbappe. Now it's just a question of how he'd develop. Both physically and mentally.
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People have been saying that since he came out in the Champion's League against City, and they've been completely wrong. He's constantly improving, every 2-3 months he looks better and better. He'll still have the odd poor game here and there, but overall he's gotten way better than he was even during the WC. He's far from his full potential yet. He will have a 40/50-goal season in the near future, regardless of the league he goes to.
 
Had a debate with @Vernon Philander who thinks Aubameyang is better than any one of our forwards. He suggested he'd swap him for any single player.

When I coined Greenwood I got the answer "what's Greenwood's market value vs Aubameyang?"

Come on @Vernon Philander ! I disagree, of course but curious to hear opinions of those monitoring him since reserves for a balanced opinion.

Also an arsenal mate of ours agreed, saying Aubameyang is greater than him, Rashford and Martial.

He went on to say Greenwood is never touted as the next Rooney or Owen, that Rooney was more explosive and a better player at 18. Just thought I'd share.
 
He has everything in his locker to be fair to him. Just watch his highlight reels from the youth teams. Stands out from everyone else, both physically and talent wise. What's his good foot? He doesn't have one! What an absolute nightmare for defenders, literally the worst type of striker you can defend against. He's also deceptively fast and can burn players inside or outside. Can he pick a pass, yes, can he dribble, yes, can he take free kicks, yes, can he take pens, yes. The only thing i haven't seen him do often is head the ball. Honestly, the sky is the limit for him. He doesn't get injured much, and i have to say Ole has managed him perfectly and is definitely the right manager for him at the right time. He has made the step up to the senior team like a duck to water. It's amazing but not surprising to me. Had the same feeling when i first saw Pogba in the youth setup but i fancy Mason for a Ballon D'or more.
 
hellhunter said:
As gifted and exciting a boy he is, have to strongly disagree. Rooney that age was something else.
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Yeah, I mean, a lot of people had Rooney above Ronaldo at the time. Part of that is English-hype, but Rooney was absolutely unreal, while he reached quite a peak, he never took it to that next elite level like Messi and Ronaldo did. Still a helluva career, especially at the club level.
 
Sayros said:
People have been saying that since he came out in the Champion's League against City, and they've been completely wrong. He's constantly improving, every 2-3 months he looks better and better. He'll still have the odd poor game here and there, but overall he's gotten way better than he was even during the WC. He's far from his full potential yet. He will have a 40/50-goal season in the near future, regardless of the league he goes to.
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Yeah maybe. Tbh I haven't watched him for a while. However I'd strongly doubt that he can produce 40-50 goals a season on a regular basis. He's fantastic but imo he won't be able to reach the level of Messi or Ronaldo. Those two are just on another level.
 
Strelok said:
Yeah maybe. Tbh I haven't watched him for a while. However I'd strongly doubt that he can produce 40-50 goals a season on a regular basis. He's fantastic but imo he won't be able to reach the level of Messi or Ronaldo. Those two are just on another level.
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He was pace to do that this season and had 39 last season. He probably would have had 40+ this season if Ligue 1 wasn't cancelled, had already 30 goals and 17 assists without taking penalties.
 
Sayros said:
He was pace to do that this season and had 39 last season. He probably would have had 40+ this season if Ligue 1 wasn't cancelled, had already 30 goals and 17 assists without taking penalties.
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I forgot to say in the PL or Liga. I mean no offense but 40-50 goals in L1 is very different to such in the PL or Liga.
 
One question to the older caf members who have seen Ole play in debut season and beyond: how does Greenwood compare to Ole as a player? Their finishing has been compared which is amazing due to Ole's reputation as one of the best finishers of the game. But does Greenwood show more than what Ole did in other departments?
 
Strelok said:
I forgot to say in the PL or Liga. I mean no offense but 40-50 goals in L1 is very different to such in the PL or Liga.
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It's very rare in Ligue 1 as well. He can only play in the league he's in, but I'm sure he'll replicate those numbers in any league since the only teams that could afford him are not going to have a problem getting him to replicate those numbers. Personally, I've seen enough of him to say it's not a matter of if, but when.
 
A natural finisher. The first thought that comes to mind is Robin van Persie.
Edit: The other thread mentioned Sergio Aguero. Yeah, he's similar as well. I can only hope Mason reaches the same heights.
 
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I think with his performances, he's going to get more and more of the ball, he's a legitimate outlet for something to happen on the wings right now and he's shown a little bit of his passing and crossing so far, it's exciting to see him show more and more of his abilities as he grows in confidence and doesn't have to worry or play restricted as much in fear of getting benched.
 
tombombadil said:
Very quick shooter as well. *fingers crossed* He keeps this trajectory for the next 15 years.
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Yes, he got that as well. Very hard defending against him. He uses very little time to fire.

I have high hopes for him. That said, we should not go all crazy now. His still very young.
 
Sayros said:
It's very rare in Ligue 1 as well. He can only play in the league he's in, but I'm sure he'll replicate those numbers in any league since the only teams that could afford him are not going to have a problem getting him to replicate those numbers. Personally, I've seen enough of him to say it's not a matter of if, but when.
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Yeah but imagine someone like Aguero playing in L1 for example. He'd score loads I think. Imo his performance in the L1 alone can't tell if he has become a better player or not. Only if he can show that in the PL, Liga, CL then we can be sure about. You must beat the most difficult level if you want to prove you're the best.

Btw I don't think he would leave PSG in the near future. No club gonna pay 200m++ for him, especially in this post Covid economy.

Edit: I remove WC since it's a short tournament.
 
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