Where do you rank Mason Greenwood as a talent?

Mason's 'body shape' when about to strike and his style of running does remind me of RvP. I do however think Greenwood is much more advanced at his age than RvP was and I hope he keeps injury free which was one of Robin's weaknesses.
Lot more to come from this lad, if he's handled right, his calmness overall, but in particular in front of goal is amazing for someone so young, or is he just 'playing without fear' at this point?
Either way it gives us as much, if not more hope for the future, as the emergence of some of our past greats did.
 
For me, 2010-2013 was RvP’s peak and what a peak it was. He could absolutely do everything. Score and create. Just a joy to watch. If Mason can get to that level but for a longer peak — I’d be delighted as RvP was absolutely sensational footballer in my opinion.
Fully agree. He was probably even better in 2011/12, thankfully Arsenal were not good enough to match his level.
 
Got all the "tools".
Unlike Rooney at 18, he has not peaked physically yet.

The likes of Mbappe and Sancho are equally "talented", but they are extreme in some areas and lacking in others. Greenwood is just very good at everything, which is what makes him so special.
Haaland is not as "talented" as Greenwood. World class movement and positioning in the box, but not close to being technically good enough.
 
Fully agree. He was probably even better in 2011/12, thankfully Arsenal were not good enough to match his level.
Yeah I meant between 2010 and 2013 — for a period of three seasons — RvP was close to perfection. Just sublime in everything that he did.
 
It’s bizarre that we’re taking about RvP being a limiting factor here. In reality if we get RvP like player without the injuries we’ll have absolutely insane player on our hands. It’s easy to forget that RvP was also a crazy talent, so skilful too.
True.

Though currently some way off RvP level, I think Greenwood has a higher ceiling. But even at current level without taking potential into account, he's very good.

If he's lucky with injuries and can stay motivated and grounded the sky is the limit for him.
 
I would be seriously disappointed if he just ends up with around 250 goals like Rooney. If he doesn't have injuries he is well on his way to break that and will end up a better player if he keeps up.

Come on now, seriously disappointed? Rooney was a once in a generation talent who lived up to almost all of his potential, he was the best English player for about a decade. Greenwood would have had a fantastic career if he gets anywhere close to him.
 
I rate Greenwood very highly. This boy can become a world class player if he avoids injuries and complacency.

I am however interested to see how he does in his second season. When everyone know who he is and realizes he s a threat he might be double marked or given limited space, it will be interesting to see how he copes with that. Considering Greenwood does not rely on his pace and more so on technique in a split second, I think it's difficult to come up with a game plan to stop him. Either way, I am fecking excited follow his career. Potential United legend here.
 
Its been a while since I got really excited by a young player such as Greenwood. The boy is special! He's got all the makings of a world class player. He's technically sound, quick, good on and off the ball, and a natural finisher - and he's two-footed! He's being compared to the likes of Owen, Rooney, Brazil Ronaldo, RvP and many other greats at the same age. That's just it - he is not exceptional at one thing only (like speed, dribbling, or positioning). He seems to be good at everything and that's just natural talent. Really hope he keeps his head and continues working hard.
 
Come on now, seriously disappointed? Rooney was a once in a generation talent who lived up to almost all of his potential, he was the best English player for about a decade. Greenwood would have had a fantastic career if he gets anywhere close to him.

Well said. While i think young rooney was a bit more explosive and had maybe a bit more potential, greenwood is pretty much on that generational talent thing.
 
He’s obviously a very different player to likes of Mbappe, Haaland, Rooney and other greats. I’m actually struggling to compare him to anyone really. lfor the first goal — at 18 years of age — was insane. I mean I’m struggling to remember a more two footed attacker although my football knowledge isn’t anywhere near as good as some on this forum so perhaps someone could help out. n

Anyway what are you thoughts on this?
For me he’s the best English talent since Rooney but of course very different players. He will be the best striker at our over the next 15 years.
So 28 y.o RvP then?
 
I think he reminds me most of Aguero with that burst of acceleration to get the yard on the defender before unleashing a powerful deadly finish.
 
What would happen if you gave Van Persie some pace and a right foot? Mason Greenwood. He's so talented it's unreal.
 
He’s very good. Hopefully by the time FIFA22 comes out he will be an 87+ rated player. Just kidding.

I think he has the potential to be one of the greatest ever... to be Messi-like.
 
Behind Haaland too in terms of stats.
depends what stats you use... on his 19th Birthday Haaland had played
Bryne - 16 games and 0 goals
Molde - 50 games and 20 goals
RB Saltzberg - 5 games and 1 goal
Norway U21 - 3 games and 0 goals
overall 74 games and 21 goals (0.28 Goals per game)

Greenwood has played at a higher level and scored at a better rate... Haaland had nore games / experience
united - 45 games and 15 goals
England U21 - 4 games and 1 goal
overall 49 games and 16 goals (0.33 goals per game)

Greenwood looks significantly better when you look at goals per 90 mins

Next season I suspect Haaland will be the better player (but he is older) - in 5 years genuinely not sure

Think they are very different types of player though and I can see Greenwood operating wide and centrally whilst Haaland looks like he will operate pretty exclusively down the middle
 
The comparisons between Rooney and Greenwood are off for a number of reasons, with the main one being that Rooney came out of the traps playing in the hardest position on the pitch at 16 and absolutely put the football world on red alert that we were witnessing a potential all-time great turning grown men into fearful statues, non moreso than what he did at the Euros at the age of 18. Rooney wasn't just a talented youngster, he was a player an entire nation pinned their hopes on at 18 years old. He was a player deferred to and seen as the star of an England side with many a great and established name in it. Rooney was being compared to Bobby Charlton, Alfredo Di Stefano and Pele at 18 years old.

There is a chasm between that regard and whatever there is for Greenwood. Goals were not Rooney's only currency in his teams, either, it was the sheer terror he created and exemplified with his overall game, be it running with the ball; running without the ball; passing, or, finally, taking on Roy of the Rovers type shots. Rooney's sphere was encompassing in such a way that the players he was being compared to were all, in their own right known as players barely identifiable and pinnable to a single position on the pitch. Indeed, you'll get #8, #9 and #10 suffixed to the aforementioned, pseudo or otherwise, which was the same thing with Rooney as bombed all over the pitch, but was more associated with coming into his own just past the offensive end of the centre circle. Rooney was already a conduit and a hub his teams went through and was a given to be in the thick of the play throughout a game. Was he erratic? Yes, but at base ends, what was expected of him, which was to be an agent of chaos, he delivered to levels you simply don't see through the centre of the pitch in teenagers but a few times per generation, if you're lucky.

Further to the above, Rooney was also effective out wide even though that wasn't his position or where he even broke through at Everton. If you really think about it, it is absurd what he was and what he was doing at the ages he was doing it at, even moreso than Greenwood.

Greenwood, on the other hand, is a player who is expected to eventually move into the centre and become an out-and-out striker - whether you believe he'll usurp Martial and take the position for himself, it has always been forecast that as soon as his body is strong enough and he's fully adapted to the men's game, that's where he'll be playing (for us or someone else).

On the relative scale, it is easier to start wide and move into the middle of the pitch once mature enough to do so, which is why so many forwards get their break out on a flank instead of through the centre. Greenwood is also finding his feet and the general pacing of the adult game, whereas, even at 16, Rooney had no regard for it, and not just because he was a man-child, but because it was he who was coming into games and setting the pace of them and having those around him play to his beat - something the likes of Maradona did at the same age. It's no slight on Greenwood to say that as overall players at this moment in time, Rooney would be the sun and Greenwood an orbiting planet.

On the other hand, Greenwood has displayed the kind of finishing in his career Rooney could not match even at his peak in the 2010 breakdown season; the kind of finishing associative of very, very few forwards or strikers who have played, which is why the comparative revolve around the same few names in English Premier League parlance because it is such a rare trait. If you read through Greenwood's thread from before or even just as he put his first few goals in, some had already stated his finishing was world class as others rejected the claims as spurious and premature. The issue here is, Greenwood's finishing hasn't deviated since he was in televised games on MUTV, and if you'd been watching him, the only thing that has changed in that regard is the stage he's putting the exact same finishes in the net on. The facts always seemed to be that: if he had a sight of goal, he's going to work the keeper or score; another point evident, and factually proven is the statements about which is his 'best' foot - nothing has changed with him except that he's doing 'it' against pros now and not kids. There's not really a point in their careers where, given the same chance inside the box, Rooney's finishing would be regarded over Greenwood's, but obviously there's a show and prove in that, which trumps postulation. That Rooney striker season, however, where he was heading balls in like the second coming of Sandor Kocsis, there's no evidence to date, that Greenwood can or will match that, but it remains to be seen.

More than his ability to hit the ball with either foot, his ability to hit the ball suddenly with little to no backlift with accuracy and power is what makes Greenwood special. You can, at any time in any era, count the amount of players doing that with frequency on you fingers and toes. These are the players that can beat keepers on their near posts from 20yards out; these are the players who can leave top centrebacks rooted to the spot not even able to set their feet up before the ball is rifled past them. You combine that with being able to do it on either foot and couple it with superfluous dribbling ability, and it means a simple transition from left foot touch to a snapshot on the right, or vice-versa, you have a career weapon that is basically unstoppable until the sudden-burst initial acceleration departs said forward.

There is hardly any means to defend against this action, as even if you know it's coming, the when, the why and the time it takes you to adjust your own shape is an overload that can barely be compensated for. In much the same way as Robben's predictable routine cut inside touches and devestating shot, or Garrincha's standstill to burst cut outside, or Messi's slalom on the left diagonal defined a career, these kind of strikers have the same signature capacity. Robbie Fowler had it, Jimmy Greaves and Denis Law had it, but I think the most famed for sudden strikes from either foot with venom or finesse as required is Romario, who, there was just no way of predicting before he'd actually taken the shot he intended on. Greenwood is of the same ilk as the little Brazilian marvel and has it in him to score the same types of goals for years with little to no counter. It usually at the point when the striker draws his leg back, that the top CB's nip in and block or take it off them; if the leg is not even being half-cocked, you're reduced to a very unique Baresi/Vogts/Chumpitaz/Cannavaro/Cordoba type (very short, fast accelaration and nippy) CB who has it in him to make the challenges in the split-second that will leave bigger guys flummoxed and floundering.

Greenwood is a special talent who is still finding his feet. He has the tools you associate with the best of their time. It wouldn't be a surprise if, injuries and character permitting, he is seen as an absolute superstar by the time he is done. He already has key attributes you cannot find in most of the footballing world, and if he develops the all-round game to utilise those attributes, there's no reason why he cannot challenge the long line of great forwards this club has had to be ranked in the highest tier. It's not a hype job, just simple logic and extrapolation of what you can see.

As an aside, it's a shame how Giuseppe Rossi has been forgotten about in here. He was the most devastating forward who came out of the academy, but his chance to show his wares here were curtailed by what we had up front back then and the status the team had as a whole. Injuries ruined him, but he is a golden boy that shouldn't be forgotten.
 
He's a fantastic player in the making, but I hope the club, fans, won't pile pressure onto him.

We're all a bit desperate for success, but Rashford and Martial are still growing, much less Greenwood.
 
All the comparisons to rooney just make me miss teenage Rooney.

That said, I think Greenwood has the same ceiling as Rooney. I just hope he follows the CR7 path of professionalism instead of the Rooney path.
 
Rooney was so good at 16/17 that I actually ended up disappointed by him despite him becoming England and United's record goalscorer. He was incredible. I actually thought he had more to his all-round game than Ronaldo when they were both maturing and he should really have pushed himself a bit harder to stay at Ronnie's level. Maybe it came too easily for him and he didn't have the same unbending desire. Few do.

Greenwood isn't quite as much of a revelation but his finishing is as good as I've seen for his age. He's unbelievably composed for an 18 year old.
 
I love Greenwood, I've been watching him for the youth teams for a few years now and rate him higher than any youth player I've ever seen at utd (I've been following the reserves since ~2004).

But am I the only one slightly worried that this huge upturn in form has coincided with us playing in empty stadiums? I don't know if he would be able to keep up this level in the pressure of a packed away game.

There are too many variables to say one way or the other, so for now I'm just going to enjoy the football :)
 
Mason's 'body shape' when about to strike and his style of running does remind me of RvP. I do however think Greenwood is much more advanced at his age than RvP was and I hope he keeps injury free which was one of Robin's weaknesses.
Lot more to come from this lad, if he's handled right, his calmness overall, but in particular in front of goal is amazing for someone so young, or is he just 'playing without fear' at this point?
Either way it gives us as much, if not more hope for the future, as the emergence of some of our past greats did.

I personally won't make predictions. Focusing on the present, I just remember when the last chance of the game came against Spurs I was happy it was him. Even though Mason didnt convert I would still want it to be him if the chance came again. Also right now he has the consistent ability to finish at the near post. I am guessing that if it were easy everyone would do it. For now he might be the best and most unique finisher at the club. Martial is also a robot when thru on goal. Good times for us and lets enjoy the moment.
 
I think Rashford and Greenwood will retire at United. Hopefully they will follow in the footsteps of players like Giggs and Scholes. One club men.
 
Rooney was so good at 16/17 that I actually ended up disappointed by him despite him becoming England and United's record goalscorer. He was incredible. I actually thought he had more to his all-round game than Ronaldo when they were both maturing and he should really have pushed himself a bit harder to stay at Ronnie's level. Maybe it came too easily for him and he didn't have the same unbending desire. Few do.

Greenwood isn't quite as much of a revelation but his finishing is as good as I've seen for his age. He's unbelievably composed for an 18 year old.

This is it really - mentality. Ronaldo is a physical anomaly and I doubt Rooney could ever have kept up, but if he had Ronaldo's mentality he'd have still been one of the best players in the league (and possibly the world) at 31 instead of winding down his career at Everton. The disappointment many United fans feel about Rooney isn't a lack of appreciation for what he did for the club, but a reflection on the fact that he clearly had the potential to do even more.

Having said that though, I'm speaking at someone who gave up on playing football 'properly' when everyone else had their growth spurt before me and I stopped getting picked, so who am I to judge?
 
Best teenage talent I've ever seen:
Tier 1 - L.Ronaldo, Mbappe, Rooney
Tier 2 - Messi, Ronaldo, Giggs, Owen, Fabregas, Sancho, Neymar
Tier 3 - Flower, Greenwood, Haaland, Felix, De Ligt
 
Best teenage talent I've ever seen:
Tier 1 - L.Ronaldo, Mbappe, Rooney
Tier 2 - Messi, Ronaldo, Giggs, Owen, Fabregas, Sancho, Neymar
Tier 3 - Flower, Greenwood, Haaland, Felix, De Ligt
Tim Flowers was a good keeper but I'm not convinced he belongs in that bracket.
 
The comparisons between Rooney and Greenwood are off for a number of reasons, with the main one being that Rooney came out of the traps playing in the hardest position on the pitch at 16 and absolutely put the football world on red alert that we were witnessing a potential all-time great turning grown men into fearful statues, non moreso than what he did at the Euros at the age of 18. Rooney wasn't just a talented youngster, he was a player an entire nation pinned their hopes on at 18 years old. He was a player deferred to and seen as the star of an England side with many a great and established name in it. Rooney was being compared to Bobby Charlton, Alfredo Di Stefano and Pele at 18 years old.

There is a chasm between that regard and whatever there is for Greenwood. Goals were not Rooney's only currency in his teams, either, it was the sheer terror he created and exemplified with his overall game, be it running with the ball; running without the ball; passing, or, finally, taking on Roy of the Rovers type shots. Rooney's sphere was encompassing in such a way that the players he was being compared to were all, in their own right known as players barely identifiable and pinnable to a single position on the pitch. Indeed, you'll get #8, #9 and #10 suffixed to the aforementioned, pseudo or otherwise, which was the same thing with Rooney as bombed all over the pitch, but was more associated with coming into his own just past the offensive end of the centre circle. Rooney was already a conduit and a hub his teams went through and was a given to be in the thick of the play throughout a game. Was he erratic? Yes, but at base ends, what was expected of him, which was to be an agent of chaos, he delivered to levels you simply don't see through the centre of the pitch in teenagers but a few times per generation, if you're lucky.

Further to the above, Rooney was also effective out wide even though that wasn't his position or where he even broke through at Everton. If you really think about it, it is absurd what he was and what he was doing at the ages he was doing it at, even moreso than Greenwood.

Greenwood, on the other hand, is a player who is expected to eventually move into the centre and become an out-and-out striker - whether you believe he'll usurp Martial and take the position for himself, it has always been forecast that as soon as his body is strong enough and he's fully adapted to the men's game, that's where he'll be playing (for us or someone else).

On the relative scale, it is easier to start wide and move into the middle of the pitch once mature enough to do so, which is why so many forwards get their break out on a flank instead of through the centre. Greenwood is also finding his feet and the general pacing of the adult game, whereas, even at 16, Rooney had no regard for it, and not just because he was a man-child, but because it was he who was coming into games and setting the pace of them and having those around him play to his beat - something the likes of Maradona did at the same age. It's no slight on Greenwood to say that as overall players at this moment in time, Rooney would be the sun and Greenwood an orbiting planet.

On the other hand, Greenwood has displayed the kind of finishing in his career Rooney could not match even at his peak in the 2010 breakdown season; the kind of finishing associative of very, very few forwards or strikers who have played, which is why the comparative revolve around the same few names in English Premier League parlance because it is such a rare trait. If you read through Greenwood's thread from before or even just as he put his first few goals in, some had already stated his finishing was world class as others rejected the claims as spurious and premature. The issue here is, Greenwood's finishing hasn't deviated since he was in televised games on MUTV, and if you'd been watching him, the only thing that has changed in that regard is the stage he's putting the exact same finishes in the net on. The facts always seemed to be that: if he had a sight of goal, he's going to work the keeper or score; another point evident, and factually proven is the statements about which is his 'best' foot - nothing has changed with him except that he's doing 'it' against pros now and not kids. There's not really a point in their careers where, given the same chance inside the box, Rooney's finishing would be regarded over Greenwood's, but obviously there's a show and prove in that, which trumps postulation. That Rooney striker season, however, where he was heading balls in like the second coming of Sandor Kocsis, there's no evidence to date, that Greenwood can or will match that, but it remains to be seen.

More than his ability to hit the ball with either foot, his ability to hit the ball suddenly with little to no backlift with accuracy and power is what makes Greenwood special. You can, at any time in any era, count the amount of players doing that with frequency on you fingers and toes. These are the players that can beat keepers on their near posts from 20yards out; these are the players who can leave top centrebacks rooted to the spot not even able to set their feet up before the ball is rifled past them. You combine that with being able to do it on either foot and couple it with superfluous dribbling ability, and it means a simple transition from left foot touch to a snapshot on the right, or vice-versa, you have a career weapon that is basically unstoppable until the sudden-burst initial acceleration departs said forward.

There is hardly any means to defend against this action, as even if you know it's coming, the when, the why and the time it takes you to adjust your own shape is an overload that can barely be compensated for. In much the same way as Robben's predictable routine cut inside touches and devestating shot, or Garrincha's standstill to burst cut outside, or Messi's slalom on the left diagonal defined a career, these kind of strikers have the same signature capacity. Robbie Fowler had it, Jimmy Greaves and Denis Law had it, but I think the most famed for sudden strikes from either foot with venom or finesse as required is Romario, who, there was just no way of predicting before he'd actually taken the shot he intended on. Greenwood is of the same ilk as the little Brazilian marvel and has it in him to score the same types of goals for years with little to no counter. It usually at the point when the striker draws his leg back, that the top CB's nip in and block or take it off them; if the leg is not even being half-cocked, you're reduced to a very unique Baresi/Vogts/Chumpitaz/Cannavaro/Cordoba type (very short, fast accelaration and nippy) CB who has it in him to make the challenges in the split-second that will leave bigger guys flummoxed and floundering.

Greenwood is a special talent who is still finding his feet. He has the tools you associate with the best of their time. It wouldn't be a surprise if, injuries and character permitting, he is seen as an absolute superstar by the time he is done. He already has key attributes you cannot find in most of the footballing world, and if he develops the all-round game to utilise those attributes, there's no reason why he cannot challenge the long line of great forwards this club has had to be ranked in the highest tier. It's not a hype job, just simple logic and extrapolation of what you can see.

As an aside, it's a shame how Giuseppe Rossi has been forgotten about in here. He was the most devastating forward who came out of the academy, but his chance to show his wares here were curtailed by what we had up front back then and the status the team had as a whole. Injuries ruined him, but he is a golden boy that shouldn't be forgotten.
Wonderful read, fort. :)
 
Best teenage talent I've ever seen:
Tier 1 - L.Ronaldo, Mbappe, Rooney
Tier 2 - Messi, Ronaldo, Giggs, Owen, Fabregas, Sancho, Neymar
Tier 3 - Flower, Greenwood, Haaland, Felix, De Ligt

Hard to have Rooney and even Mbappe above Messi and even Owen. And no way should either be in the same category as Sancho.

Actually thinking about it teenage Cristiano and Messi were on a different level to the new kids even Mbappe.

One thing I will agree with is that L. Ronaldo was perhaps the greatest teenage player we have ever seen.
 
He must be an amazing prospect considering he has edged James from the starting line up. (Only took all season. Who knew?)
 
25+ league goals potential. So we talk about Henry, RVP and Suarez level ceiling. Natural goal scorer.
 
I don't see him becoming a Henry/Suarez type allround superstar, I think they posed threats in more ways than Greenwood does. I see him becoming a 20+ league goals a season player and I think he is more likely to reach that potential than prospecs usually are because of his already great goalscoring tools. I think he will peak like RVP around 30 goals but I don't think that happens with this front 3 were everyone is getting goals.
 
Hard to have Rooney and even Mbappe above Messi and even Owen. And no way should either be in the same category as Sancho.

Actually thinking about it teenage Cristiano and Messi were on a different level to the new kids even Mbappe.

One thing I will agree with is that L. Ronaldo was perhaps the greatest teenage player we have ever seen.

Its more on opinion, Rooney and Mbappe at very young age is already the key player for their team, more of a complete package too. Messi at his first 2 years is more of a fringe player at Barca as he has Ronaldinho, Henry and Etoo ahead of him, Ronaldo is very exciting and electrifying wing wizard at early teenage too but he also has his flaws (diving and showpony)

Messi at 17: 1 goals in 9 games (just starting)
Messi at 18: 8 goals in 26 games (exciting, similar impact to Greenwood)
Messi at 19: 17 goals in 36 games (exciting, one of best young player in the world, alongside with Rooney and Ronaldo)

Cristiano at 17: 5 goals in 31 games as winger at Sporting (good young player)
Cristiano at 18: 6 goals in 40 games as winger at United (exciting player, becoming one of best young player in the world)
Cristiano at 19: 9 goals in 50 games as winger (similar to his first season, exciting player)

Rooney at 17: 8 goals in 37 games (exciting, already first team player for Everton, probably the best young player in the league at age 17)
Rooney at 18: 9 goals in 34 games (exciting, best young player)
Rooney at 19: 17 goals in 43 games (best young player in the world)

Mbappe at 17: 1 goals in 14 games (just starting)
Mbappe at 18: 26 goals in 44 games (best young player in the world, impress in the league and CL)
Mbappe at 19: 21 goals in 42 games (WC winner, best young player in the world)