When will we stop being crap?

It's not as bad as you're all making out. Yes we're crap, no doubt about it, yes, we need some serious surgery, but we have a lot of the right pieces.

Our main issues are LB, ST and CM x2.

GK - Onana will do for now, but this summer or the next he should be replaced if he has not become a consistent player by then.

RB - This is Maz's best position, we should play him there, not shoe horn him to fit gaps elsewhere. Dalot can be a backup/Rotation/competitor or we can sell him and buy a replacement.

CB - De Ligt, Yoro and Martinez seem like a good back 3. Evans, Maguire, Lindelof will be off. Need to find another CB or two to help them out. Shaw could be a LCB next season, part time of course.

LB - Number 1 priority. Alphonso Davies should be our top target, chuck mega bucks at him, he's worth it. We ought to buy back Fernandez too. Move on Malacia and Shaw.

CM - Number 1 priority also. Ugarte is the only one who is a regular now. Mainoo is a work in progress in this system. Casemiro should be a rotation option only. We need 2 central midfielders this summer ready to go into the first team. They need to be hard working, defensively capable and creative. Zubimendi springs to mind, someone of that sort of calibre.

AM - We have Bruno, Mount, Amad, Garnacho, Rashford, Sancho and Antony for these positions. Sancho, Antony and Mount should be sold. if we can get buyers for Rashford he should be sold too. Amad and Bruno are first choice, Garnacho is a work in progress and I think realstically next seasons we will have Mount and Rashford too. What i'd love to see is us flog Mount and Rashford too and get in Kvaratskhelia the summer after next.

CF - the third number 1 priority. All three of our CF's are between rubbish, meh and promising on their best day. I love Marcus Rashford but for me he's a limited player and like a bad smell at times. He's inconsistent and in his prime years - this is as good as it'll ever get. We have Zirkzee and Hojlund, when we really needed a Kane or an Osimhen. Lets hope we get Gyokeres and he doesn't turn out to be another nearly man. In my personal opinion, we should sign Osimhen.

I think if we get these 4 players in the summer, we can challenge for top 4 if they work out, and if we can get 2-3 more next summer, (GK, Kvaratskhelia, another top CB), we could look to have a squad that would challenge for the league. No more West Ham/Spurs style signings.
 
Things can change very quickly. The issue we have is no senior players in attack. When you think about how Garnacho, Hojlund and Amad will still be youngish players in 3-4 years then it’s quite exciting. But still, we need a transfer to actually work out and someone to come in and make a difference. Having a genius makes such a difference like Palmer at Chelsea.

It was a huge mistake to let ETH spunk money on crap like Mount and Zirkzee. I do have faith that our new manager has an eye for talent and can fill our attack with quality. In other positions I think we have potential, players like Mainoo and Yoro are very exciting talents and Maz has been our best signing in a while.

One thing that’s changed is we aren’t chasing short term targets in desperation to finish in the top 4. Casemiro and Cavani (as examples) were good for us but not sustainable. In the Summer we signed the right profile and age of player and it could all click down the line, with the potential to do a lot better than just top 4. Still, as I said, we need to get better young players in attack. ETH’s signings were bizarre.
 
I really struggle to see us getting back to the top anytime soon. Every 2/3 years we have the same conversations... "Is this rock bottom" and every time rock bottom is deeper than the last time.

We are 13th and probably lose to City on the weekend, so instead of climbing the ladder we are stagnating and sliding.

We make signings and 1/2 years later they all look washed, even though some of them look promising.

Bruno - Looked impressive and 2 years later - we want him gone
Licha, Casemiro, Eriksen, Hojlund - Looked good in year 1 and now all looking below average
This has been the case for a long time, AWB, Maguire, Antony, Onana all the same, look good at the start and then crap.

Managers are the same, I dont see why this will change.
 
I started a thread after the Moyes season on when United would win their next title, most people said within a few years.

I dont recall anyone seriously thinking it could be 10 years, especially not the situation we have now - 11 years gone and people not seeing it in the near future.

For what it is worth, there are no other clubs of United's stature that have sunk so low so this can only go on for a limited amount of time? Abd to whoever says Liverpool, I say Istanbul 2005.

They were also regularly in CL late stages of the competition during the Rafa years. United have not reached the last four or came close to it since 2011...
 
When idiots like Jimbo and cycling man stop getting involved in decisions.

You've employed execs to do the job, let them do it.
 
Avoid relegation, go all in on Europa League and use the remainder of the season as one big training session.

Even though we've been here many times in the past decade, there is no other way to go about it. It takes time and several transfer windows - again. We as fans have to get rid of all expectations this season.
 
alexthelion said:
When idiots like Jimbo and cycling man stop getting involved in decisions.

You've employed execs to do the job, let them do it.
Click to expand...
I agree with your second statement, but you are assuming Berrada didn't want to fire Ashworth. By all reports, Berrada personally selected Amorim and negotiated his transfer, basically doing Ashworth's job for Ashworth.

If I end up doing major work my direct report is supposed to do, because they can't be trusted, I am going to let them go. Pretty sure Berrada felt the sams
 
1. When the people in charge of the club will know football.
2. When we will hire a top manager, because recent history showed that a top manager and staff are the most important thing for the success of a football club. Only time will tell if Amorim is good or not.
3. When that manager assembles a quality team/squad, not just individuals trying to impress their gf or get fat contracts to sleep on the bench.
 
Shabby as she goes said:
I see the point you’re making about Onana, Mainoo and Martinez. You may be right. But they’ve all had much better periods than the shape they are currently in

At least we have half a season to find out if they’re able to raise their level again under Amorim.
Then, in the summer, the key priorities will be clear for another busy transfer window
Click to expand...
Yeah I just hope Amorim identifies quickly the players he wants to work with and the ones he doesn't and that INEOS are smart enough be able to work out the financials that'll be needed to reshape the squad quickly.
 
fergiewherearethou said:
1. When the people in charge of the club will know football.
2. When we will hire a top manager, because recent history showed that a top manager and staff are the most important thing for the success of a football club. Only time will tell if Amorim is good or not.
3. When that manager assembles a quality team/squad, not just individuals trying to impress their gf or get fat contracts to sleep on the bench.
Click to expand...
Yup. We need to start signing players who actually improve our starting XI. Maz and Ugarte are doing well, Zirkzee and De Ligt are not so impressive. Amorim needs to get his first few signings right. If not then I can't see him lasting very long.
 
romufc said:
I really struggle to see us getting back to the top anytime soon. Every 2/3 years we have the same conversations... "Is this rock bottom" and every time rock bottom is deeper than the last time.

We are 13th and probably lose to City on the weekend, so instead of climbing the ladder we are stagnating and sliding.

We make signings and 1/2 years later they all look washed, even though some of them look promising.

Bruno - Looked impressive and 2 years later - we want him gone
Licha, Casemiro, Eriksen, Hojlund - Looked good in year 1 and now all looking below average
This has been the case for a long time, AWB, Maguire, Antony, Onana all the same, look good at the start and then crap.

Managers are the same, I dont see why this will change.
Click to expand...
I can see Amorim selling all of Zirkzee, Rashford, Höjlund, and Martinez. They are players who could generate some much needed income. Others are too past it to generate income.
 
I think all the spend under ETH has set us back a few years. Hopefully we can flog some of the players he's signed. But keeping him over the summer and giving him another 200m to spend was a mistake.

Like others have said, we could realistically turn things around if we sign an LB, CM(s) and an experienced, proven goal scorer.
 
The way I see it, is the PL is getting stronger and stronger every year, I’m convinced that this year and most years to come, that the PL through success in European competitions will always get 5 CL spots, 2 Europa League and 1 Conference league spot, you will also see, due to PL strength that eventually the team that wins Conference league or Europa league is from EPL and could finish outside the top 7/8 every season, meaning 9 PL teams could easily qualify in Europe next season.

If Spurs and United both finish outside the top 8 but one win the Europa League, the EPL would have six teams in the CL 25/26 so the season is far from over.

Short Term Strategy;

Right now the most important thing to get right for the club is to back Ruben, we need to also micro manage him, which should be Wilcox and Berrada’s Job.

He proved already in the Europa league in the last game that he can adapt and in game changed for 25/30 minutes to a 4231 formation with Dalot playing as an orthodox left back while the team wrestled control back. We have 4 PL games to complete the first half of the season this month and we simply must get 8-10 points from those 4 games, just to hopefully have 27/28 points which would probably position the club no higher than 10-12th.

We then need decisive action in the Winter transfer window , we must get a left wing back and another striker in asap, we need to get Ruben 2/3 key players that help his system. Whatever happens, even if Ben Chillwell as left wing back on loan for 6 months is a massive upgrade than Mallacia or Dalot playing at left wing back, we must get 2 or 3 gems to help the coach.

We should also make the Europa league our main priority, we need a win in that game before Xmas!

The 1/4 final of the carabao cup and FA cup, are not worth the extra games this season, we would be much better off to lose those games and focus on supporting Amorim drilling his system so it’s ready for the second half of the year concentrating on Europa League and Premier League.

The reality right now with this squad is that we might be lucky to get 5 points in the next 4 PL games and we would be looking at a paltry 24 points after 19 games.

The media would definitely get on Amorim’s case if he’s got 9 points from 8/9 PL games, we are not getting nothing at Liverpool. We would need 40 points from 18 PL games to get in contention for 5th/6th, in other words stage one this year is to concentrate on the Europa League and put all our eggs in that one basket!

I can’t believe I’m saying this but we’re skint and if Pogba trains with us and shows signs of being anywhere near his best, we should give him a 6 month contract, he might just help us win the Europa League and needs no settling in period plus he suits a 343 perfectly as he proved with Juventus.

We must win Europa League this year and we need better players to have any chance of that!

Mid term Strategy (1-2 years)

We must finally bite the bullet and have a mass clear out ;
We need to be ruthless and sell the following over the summer 25 window and winter 26 window ;
A Onana - £35m - £150k (GK)
V Lindelof / Free - £120k (CB)
J Evans / Retired - £75k (CB)
D Dalot - £40m - £120k (RB)
T Malacia - £7m - £80k (LB)
Casemiro - £23m - £350k (CM)
C Eriksen - Free - £160k (CM)
M Mount - £25m - £250k (AM)
J Sancho - £23m - £275k (RW)
M Rashford- £42m - £325k (LWS)
J Zirkzee - £30m - £105k (SS)
Antony - £15m - £200k (RW)
L Martinez - £40m - £150k (LCB)
A Bayinder- £10m - £50k

Total - £275 -290m and £2.3m per week saved on wages add £125m which is our maximum transfer added to give us a budget of £400m over the next three windows

That’s selling/releasing 14 players over 3 windows who simply are not good enough, some of you will say Luke Shaw, Garnaucho MDL or Harry Maguire. No one will buy shaw with his injury record, MDL and Maguire are more than decent options as number 4 and number 5 CB and they have the physicality, unlike Martinez to play in an Amorim system. Garnaucho is a young talent he will mature and can play either wingback or SS in Amorim system with coaching.

And yes if we buy the right players in the next three windows, winter 25, summer 25 and Winter 26, we can genuinely be a consistent top 3/4 side who would be looking at 35-40 points after 19 games, plus we can tap into 3 or 4 genuine talents coming from our youth set up.

I’d like to see a squad that looks something like this one year from today;

Goal Keepers(3) - E Martinez or Unai Simon*(40m), James Beedle(15m*), T Heaton

Centre Backs(7) - L Yoro, MDL, N Mazraoui, H Maguire, L Shaw, J Branthwaite(£55m), R Araujo* Or Diomende(£60m)

Wing Backs(5) - *T Hernandez (40m)or A Davies(Free*), A Diallo, K Laimer or J Frimpong(£35m)* , H Amass, B Mantato
Young dynamic and huge upgrade on current options

Midfield (6) - M Ugarte, K Mainoo, A Gomes*(Free), Ederson(40m)*, T Collyer, S Kone,

SS/Number 10’s (4) - Bruno Fernandes, Chris Rigg(25m)* or T Dybling*(£25m),
Brian Mbeumo(45m) or M Cunha(£50m) ,
A Garnaucho

Centre Forward(3) - V Gyokeres or V Osimhen (£65m), R Hojlund, C Obi Martin

This is a young dynamic, squad of 27/28 players which is now the bare minimum needed with so many injuries. I don’t want to see young prospects, we need the most talented players available aged 23-27 right now this winter and summer who instantly move the needle.
 
Woziak said:
The way I see it, is the PL is getting stronger and stronger every year, I’m convinced that this year and most years to come, that the PL through success in European competitions will always get 5 CL spots, 2 Europa League and 1 Conference league spot, you will also see, due to PL strength that eventually the team that wins Conference league or Europa league is from EPL and could finish outside the top 7/8 every season, meaning 9 PL teams could easily qualify in Europe next season.

If Spurs and United both finish outside the top 8 but one win the Europa League, the EPL would have six teams in the CL 25/26 so the season is far from over.

Short Term Strategy;

Right now the most important thing to get right for the club is to back Ruben, we need to also micro manage him, which should be Wilcox and Berrada’s Job.

He proved already in the Europa league in the last game that he can adapt and in game changed for 25/30 minutes to a 4231 formation with Dalot playing as an orthodox left back while the team wrestled control back. We have 4 PL games to complete the first half of the season this month and we simply must get 8-10 points from those 4 games, just to hopefully have 27/28 points which would probably position the club no higher than 10-12th.

We then need decisive action in the Winter transfer window , we must get a left wing back and another striker in asap, we need to get Ruben 2/3 key players that help his system. Whatever happens, even if Ben Chillwell as left wing back on loan for 6 months is a massive upgrade than Mallacia or Dalot playing at left wing back, we must get 2 or 3 gems to help the coach.

We should also make the Europa league our main priority, we need a win in that game before Xmas!

The 1/4 final of the carabao cup and FA cup, are not worth the extra games this season, we would be much better off to lose those games and focus on supporting Amorim drilling his system so it’s ready for the second half of the year concentrating on Europa League and Premier League.

The reality right now with this squad is that we might be lucky to get 5 points in the next 4 PL games and we would be looking at a paltry 24 points after 19 games.

The media would definitely get on Amorim’s case if he’s got 9 points from 8/9 PL games, we are not getting nothing at Liverpool. We would need 40 points from 18 PL games to get in contention for 5th/6th, in other words stage one this year is to concentrate on the Europa League and put all our eggs in that one basket!

I can’t believe I’m saying this but we’re skint and if Pogba trains with us and shows signs of being anywhere near his best, we should give him a 6 month contract, he might just help us win the Europa League and needs no settling in period plus he suits a 343 perfectly as he proved with Juventus.

We must win Europa League this year and we need better players to have any chance of that!

Mid term Strategy (1-2 years)

We must finally bite the bullet and have a mass clear out ;
We need to be ruthless and sell the following over the summer 25 window and winter 26 window ;
A Onana - £35m - £150k (GK)
V Lindelof / Free - £120k (CB)
J Evans / Retired - £75k (CB)
D Dalot - £40m - £120k (RB)
T Malacia - £7m - £80k (LB)
Casemiro - £23m - £350k (CM)
C Eriksen - Free - £160k (CM)
M Mount - £25m - £250k (AM)
J Sancho - £23m - £275k (RW)
M Rashford- £42m - £325k (LWS)
J Zirkzee - £30m - £105k (SS)
Antony - £15m - £200k (RW)
L Martinez - £40m - £150k (LCB)
A Bayinder- £10m - £50k

Total - £275 -290m and £2.3m per week saved on wages add £125m which is our maximum transfer added to give us a budget of £400m over the next three windows

That’s selling/releasing 14 players over 3 windows who simply are not good enough, some of you will say Luke Shaw, Garnaucho MDL or Harry Maguire. No one will buy shaw with his injury record, MDL and Maguire are more than decent options as number 4 and number 5 CB and they have the physicality, unlike Martinez to play in an Amorim system. Garnaucho is a young talent he will mature and can play either wingback or SS in Amorim system with coaching.

And yes if we buy the right players in the next three windows, winter 25, summer 25 and Winter 26, we can genuinely be a consistent top 3/4 side who would be looking at 35-40 points after 19 games, plus we can tap into 3 or 4 genuine talents coming from our youth set up.

I’d like to see a squad that looks something like this one year from today;

Goal Keepers(3) - E Martinez or Unai Simon*(40m), James Beedle(15m*), T Heaton

Centre Backs(7) - L Yoro, MDL, N Mazraoui, H Maguire, L Shaw, J Branthwaite(£55m), R Araujo* Or Diomende(£60m)

Wing Backs(5) - *T Hernandez (40m)or A Davies(Free*), A Diallo, K Laimer or J Frimpong(£35m)* , H Amass, B Mantato
Young dynamic and huge upgrade on current options

Midfield (6) - M Ugarte, K Mainoo, A Gomes*(Free), Ederson(40m)*, T Collyer, S Kone,

SS/Number 10’s (4) - Bruno Fernandes, Chris Rigg(25m)* or T Dybling*(£25m),
Brian Mbeumo(45m) or M Cunha(£50m) ,
A Garnaucho

Centre Forward(3) - V Gyokeres or V Osimhen (£65m), R Hojlund, C Obi Martin

This is a young dynamic, squad of 27/28 players which is now the bare minimum needed with so many injuries. I don’t want to see young prospects, we need the most talented players available aged 23-27 right now this winter and summer who instantly move the needle.
Click to expand...

Problem is you have all those incoming signings fees understated by a good 20-40%, sometimes more, while you have most of the departing players well overestimated. You are never selling Dalot for the same that you pay for Hernandez, you are not getting £23m for Casemiro etc.
 
The chances of us breaking into the top four any time soon are very low.

Arsenal and Liverpool are set up to be perennial top four sides for the foreseeable future, for the most part.

As I predicted in the summer, Chelsea are clearly back and it's not likely that they'll fall apart again any time soon. They'll be in the mix for the next few years.

The only question mark with City is whether or not the league or the FA or whoever actually have the balls to levy a major punishment against them, and my guess is that they don't. I could see a points deduction that takes them out of the top four for one season at best, but then they'll be right back in the picture. They sure as hell aren't getting relegated.

I think it's legitimately possible that we don't see the top for again this decade. It would take a massive overhaul of the squad, which is only going to become more and more difficult as we stare down the probability of several consecutive seasons outside of the Champions League.
 
Too many of our so-called "best" players over the last decade have been lacking physically.

Take the current squad...

Maguire, £80m signing...not that quick.

Shaw £30m as a teenager...always injured.

Mainoo, undoubtedly very classy but still developing physically,

Rashford, haven't seen him win a 60:40, nevermind a 50:50, in his entire playing career, such a soft touch

Martinez, too small, too slow, too weak

Amad, small and weak

Hojlund, bambi on ice, all limbs

Bruno, slow and weak

Mount, always injured

You can't get away with this now in the Premier League. The games are stodgy, they are tactical, set-pieces are key, as are out-running opponents and overpowering them in duels.

In times gone by, teams would tire and gaps would appear. Nowadays footballers are almost athletes first and footballers second.

This is where we've badly, badly failed post SAF. From now on, we should be looking at pace, power and size as virtual non-negotiables. That's not to say every player has to be 6ft 3", but if they're not, they have to be stocky, powerful and rapid, in the Salah, Mane, Diaz mould.
 
There's far too much talk in these threads about Technical Directors, Sporting Directors and Directors of Football. Yes, they're important in football now but Manchester United is very different.

We've spent hundreds of millions on every type of player. We've still failed.

You need a proper structure to be successful but again, certain clubs need something else that's almost impossible to explain.

The club needs a manager that is essence has similar attributes to a politician. Someone to be a figurehead. Someone to talk like a statesman at times. That’s ultimately why Ten Hag failed and ultimately, sadly, why the new manager will never reach his potential. That's ultimately why Real Madrid opted to bring Ancelotti (a manager they had previously sacked) back to their club.

The biggest issue the club has at the moment is the constant media circus that surrounds us and the constant leaks that get to the same outlets. In hindsight, the writing was on the wall for Ten Hag after the weird way the club dealt with the Greenwood debacle. They invited an insane amount of negative of press onto the club with their indeciveness. Fergie would have binned him off quietly and everyone would have just gone on with their lives.

Fergie would have had this team/squad challenging for the title. He'd have probably banned every media outlet in the country aside from MUTV and told the club to pay fines every week. For all his faults sometimes, he knew how to win and he also knew most of the biggest battles were often off the pitch.

One the other side of that, Ten Hag/Ole/Van Gaal would have struggled to finish in the with the squad that we had in say 10/11. Imagine them trying to deal with the Rooney situation during that campaign?
 
I’m seeing enough under RA to say that we can pull this round pretty soon. Everything about him seems to be positive and once he gets a grip of the team, I can see us playing good football. I still think our current position and run of games will prob see us finish 9/10th but I’m not expecting much this season beyond adapting this style of play. You can see what he wants and I reckon he’s the man.
 
Hound Dog said:
I started a thread after the Moyes season on when United would win their next title, most people said within a few years.

I dont recall anyone seriously thinking it could be 10 years, especially not the situation we have now - 11 years gone and people not seeing it in the near future.

For what it is worth, there are no other clubs of United's stature that have sunk so low so this can only go on for a limited amount of time? Abd to whoever says Liverpool, I say Istanbul 2005.

They were also regularly in CL late stages of the competition during the Rafa years. United have not reached the last four or came close to it since 2011...
Click to expand...
Liverpool were like this in the Roy Evans years tbf - not as bad - but their fans were more delusional and kept saying "next years our year" while they were buying players like Phil Babb and Sean Dundee - average footballers - like us buying Mount, Zirkzee etc - but not someone you'd ever see signing for us - just as you'd never see City or Liverpool buying Zirkzee etc.
 
H
Lentwood said:
Too many of our so-called "best" players over the last decade have been lacking physically.

Take the current squad...

Maguire, £80m signing...not that quick.

Shaw £30m as a teenager...always injured.

Mainoo, undoubtedly very classy but still developing physically,

Rashford, haven't seen him win a 60:40, nevermind a 50:50, in his entire playing career, such a soft touch

Martinez, too small, too slow, too weak

Amad, small and weak

Hojlund, bambi on ice, all limbs

Bruno, slow and weak

Mount, always injured

You can't get away with this now in the Premier League. The games are stodgy, they are tactical, set-pieces are key, as are out-running opponents and overpowering them in duels.

In times gone by, teams would tire and gaps would appear. Nowadays footballers are almost athletes first and footballers second.

This is where we've badly, badly failed post SAF. From now on, we should be looking at pace, power and size as virtual non-negotiables. That's not to say every player has to be 6ft 3", but if they're not, they have to be stocky, powerful and rapid, in the Salah, Mane, Diaz mould.
Click to expand...
Hojlund is an ox. He's just not come into his own body yet but wait till he gets his man strength. I just think we need someone to take the load off him now - Gyokeres for example.
 
We still have a long way to go to rotate out the deadwood and bring in players who are physically strong enough to handle the PL, technical enough to handle Amorim's tactics, and mentally strong enough to handle the pressure of being a Manchester United player.

Who within the entire squad would one say has all three attributes? It's a short list.
 
Need to be ruthless when it comes to underperforming players. As long as we aren't we will never be.
 
Toblerone92 said:
When we stop being selfish and learn to play as a team. Dalot in particular should be called out on his unforgivable decision to blast the ball over the bar from 30 yards instead of passing to teammates in good positions. Garnacho too needs to learn to be a team player.

If they’re not up to it they need to go ASAP.
Click to expand...
Conversely, we'll be better when we stop expecting to have only 2 chances and score on them both -- back to the good old days when there were 20 chances, 4 were converted and the opposition was running themselves ragged....this is the ETH way. It's unsuccessful and really boring to watch
 
Godfather said:
Need to be ruthless when it comes to underperforming players. As long as we aren't we will never be.
Click to expand...
I agree with this, but a lot of the problems come back to having players on massive wages that no other teams are willing to match, so it's difficult to move them out.
 
To be fair, the current squad is young and energetic.

The players have good skills, speed and desires. When you look at players like Mainoo, Amad, Ugarte and Garnacho, you cannot help but can see their eagerness to do well.

And then there are the seasoned players like Bruno, Rashford, Mazra and Shaw who knows what to do to get the team forward.
 
Sarni said:
Problem is you have all those incoming signings fees understated by a good 20-40%, sometimes more, while you have most of the departing players well overestimated. You are never selling Dalot for the same that you pay for Hernandez, you are not getting £23m for Casemiro etc.
Click to expand...
Take 30% off you still have a cull and generate £200m plus certain players represent 100% profit. Hernandez is 28 next summer, Dalot just turned 25 you underestimate his value because he can play left and right back.

Sir Jim wants 10 or 11 players gone and a huge cull, he’ll have to dip into his boundless pockets and put another £250m into the club for transfers or sell his shares with the Glazers to someone who will.

Fans forget, Pep went through 3 or 4 goalkeepers and £100m plus at least £200m of full backs unti he got his squad right. Unfortunately not every player you recruit will be a hit, there an awful lot who just can’t handle the pressure of playing for United?

If Madrid offer £40m for Diego Dalot or £50m for Martinez and United will bite their hands off. They are going to get rid of as many players as they can who are on over £150k per week.

They really don’t have another option right now!
 
NewGlory said:
I agree with your second statement, but you are assuming Berrada didn't want to fire Ashworth.
Click to expand...
From the reports I've seen the decision was made by Jimbo and cycling man. Also, why at 8 o'clock,why not wait until the next working day? Something very fishy about that, imo.
 
Woziak said:
The way I see it, is the PL is getting stronger and stronger every year, I’m convinced that this year and most years to come, that the PL through success in European competitions will always get 5 CL spots, 2 Europa League and 1 Conference league spot, you will also see, due to PL strength that eventually the team that wins Conference league or Europa league is from EPL and could finish outside the top 7/8 every season, meaning 9 PL teams could easily qualify in Europe next season.

If Spurs and United both finish outside the top 8 but one win the Europa League, the EPL would have six teams in the CL 25/26 so the season is far from over.

Short Term Strategy;

Right now the most important thing to get right for the club is to back Ruben, we need to also micro manage him, which should be Wilcox and Berrada’s Job.

He proved already in the Europa league in the last game that he can adapt and in game changed for 25/30 minutes to a 4231 formation with Dalot playing as an orthodox left back while the team wrestled control back. We have 4 PL games to complete the first half of the season this month and we simply must get 8-10 points from those 4 games, just to hopefully have 27/28 points which would probably position the club no higher than 10-12th.

We then need decisive action in the Winter transfer window , we must get a left wing back and another striker in asap, we need to get Ruben 2/3 key players that help his system. Whatever happens, even if Ben Chillwell as left wing back on loan for 6 months is a massive upgrade than Mallacia or Dalot playing at left wing back, we must get 2 or 3 gems to help the coach.

We should also make the Europa league our main priority, we need a win in that game before Xmas!

The 1/4 final of the carabao cup and FA cup, are not worth the extra games this season, we would be much better off to lose those games and focus on supporting Amorim drilling his system so it’s ready for the second half of the year concentrating on Europa League and Premier League.

The reality right now with this squad is that we might be lucky to get 5 points in the next 4 PL games and we would be looking at a paltry 24 points after 19 games.

The media would definitely get on Amorim’s case if he’s got 9 points from 8/9 PL games, we are not getting nothing at Liverpool. We would need 40 points from 18 PL games to get in contention for 5th/6th, in other words stage one this year is to concentrate on the Europa League and put all our eggs in that one basket!

I can’t believe I’m saying this but we’re skint and if Pogba trains with us and shows signs of being anywhere near his best, we should give him a 6 month contract, he might just help us win the Europa League and needs no settling in period plus he suits a 343 perfectly as he proved with Juventus.

We must win Europa League this year and we need better players to have any chance of that!

Mid term Strategy (1-2 years)

We must finally bite the bullet and have a mass clear out ;
We need to be ruthless and sell the following over the summer 25 window and winter 26 window ;
A Onana - £35m - £150k (GK)
V Lindelof / Free - £120k (CB)
J Evans / Retired - £75k (CB)
D Dalot - £40m - £120k (RB)
T Malacia - £7m - £80k (LB)
Casemiro - £23m - £350k (CM)
C Eriksen - Free - £160k (CM)
M Mount - £25m - £250k (AM)
J Sancho - £23m - £275k (RW)
M Rashford- £42m - £325k (LWS)
J Zirkzee - £30m - £105k (SS)
Antony - £15m - £200k (RW)
L Martinez - £40m - £150k (LCB)
A Bayinder- £10m - £50k

Total - £275 -290m and £2.3m per week saved on wages add £125m which is our maximum transfer added to give us a budget of £400m over the next three windows

That’s selling/releasing 14 players over 3 windows who simply are not good enough, some of you will say Luke Shaw, Garnaucho MDL or Harry Maguire. No one will buy shaw with his injury record, MDL and Maguire are more than decent options as number 4 and number 5 CB and they have the physicality, unlike Martinez to play in an Amorim system. Garnaucho is a young talent he will mature and can play either wingback or SS in Amorim system with coaching.

And yes if we buy the right players in the next three windows, winter 25, summer 25 and Winter 26, we can genuinely be a consistent top 3/4 side who would be looking at 35-40 points after 19 games, plus we can tap into 3 or 4 genuine talents coming from our youth set up.

I’d like to see a squad that looks something like this one year from today;

Goal Keepers(3) - E Martinez or Unai Simon*(40m), James Beedle(15m*), T Heaton

Centre Backs(7) - L Yoro, MDL, N Mazraoui, H Maguire, L Shaw, J Branthwaite(£55m), R Araujo* Or Diomende(£60m)

Wing Backs(5) - *T Hernandez (40m)or A Davies(Free*), A Diallo, K Laimer or J Frimpong(£35m)* , H Amass, B Mantato
Young dynamic and huge upgrade on current options

Midfield (6) - M Ugarte, K Mainoo, A Gomes*(Free), Ederson(40m)*, T Collyer, S Kone,

SS/Number 10’s (4) - Bruno Fernandes, Chris Rigg(25m)* or T Dybling*(£25m),
Brian Mbeumo(45m) or M Cunha(£50m) ,
A Garnaucho

Centre Forward(3) - V Gyokeres or V Osimhen (£65m), R Hojlund, C Obi Martin

This is a young dynamic, squad of 27/28 players which is now the bare minimum needed with so many injuries. I don’t want to see young prospects, we need the most talented players available aged 23-27 right now this winter and summer who instantly move the needle.
Click to expand...
Wow!

That all reads as insane to me, we've no money to bring players in so none of that will happen.
 
alexthelion said:
From the reports I've seen the decision was made by Jimbo and cycling man. Also, why at 8 o'clock,why not wait until the next working day? Something very fishy about that, imo.
Click to expand...
Jimbo may have fired him, but Berrada may have fully agreed with the decision. Both of these statements can be true at the same time, cannot they?
 
Ricardo de la Vega said:
Liverpool were like this in the Roy Evans years tbf - not as bad - but their fans were more delusional and kept saying "next years our year" while they were buying players like Phil Babb and Sean Dundee - average footballers - like us buying Mount, Zirkzee etc - but not someone you'd ever see signing for us - just as you'd never see City or Liverpool buying Zirkzee etc.
Click to expand...
Fairs, but this was only a few years into their drought. While United are 11 years into theirs now...
 
Lentwood said:
Too many of our so-called "best" players over the last decade have been lacking physically.

Take the current squad...

Maguire, £80m signing...not that quick.

Shaw £30m as a teenager...always injured.

Mainoo, undoubtedly very classy but still developing physically,

Rashford, haven't seen him win a 60:40, nevermind a 50:50, in his entire playing career, such a soft touch

Martinez, too small, too slow, too weak

Amad, small and weak

Hojlund, bambi on ice, all limbs

Bruno, slow and weak

Mount, always injured

You can't get away with this now in the Premier League. The games are stodgy, they are tactical, set-pieces are key, as are out-running opponents and overpowering them in duels.

In times gone by, teams would tire and gaps would appear. Nowadays footballers are almost athletes first and footballers second.

This is where we've badly, badly failed post SAF. From now on, we should be looking at pace, power and size as virtual non-negotiables. That's not to say every player has to be 6ft 3", but if they're not, they have to be stocky, powerful and rapid, in the Salah, Mane, Diaz mould.
Click to expand...
Amad weak?
I would suggest you watch his goals from this season, at least 2 of those came from excellent pressing and using his body to shrug off the defender.
 
Not within 3--4 years i guess. We have too many useless players to get rid of and we cannot make mistakes again by buying average players for high fee. Difficult as INEOS don't seem too capable and Glazers are still at the club.
 
El-Manos said:
Amad weak?
I would suggest you watch his goals from this season, at least 2 of those came from excellent pressing and using his body to shrug off the defender.
Click to expand...
This.

He is also great at stealing the ball off opponents since he is fleet of foot.
 
It all comes down to recruitment and standards. We will only become a top team once we get our recruitment right.

The issue comes with FFP and finances now though. The bad recruitment becomes a cycle, you overpay and then get stuck with players, meaning you can't invest more because money is already tied up.

The solution isn't easy but we need to recruit the top "free" players such as Davies, David, Sane and maybe Mitchell (depending on Davies) and then invest money in young talent that hasn't peaked yet.... The issue being every club in the world is looking for these players so it is incredibly difficult. This combined approach is the only way for us to complete.

In addition to this, we need to be more ruthless with the current squad. Players that have have constant question marks for more than 12months need to be moved on. That includes players that many fans like and our list of players with question marks is extensive - Lindelof, Maguire, Anthony, Eriksen, Casemiro, Maguire, Shaw & Rashford all need to go.

I also don't think Zirkzee and maybe one or two others are good enough but I'm willing to give them at least a full season.

That's the only way we ever get back.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.