What to do with Hannibal? (revisited)

[Bastian]

The club has completely fecked his development, but selling him now is the only way to ensure a sell-on/buy-back, rather than stalling his development for another year and have him leave on a free.

For the good of his career he needs to move on unless by some miracle Erik has decided that he will trust him and convinces him to stay with guaranteed playing time.

If the choice is between Rangers or Celtic I'd hope he'd join the latter. They might get a bit nostalgic for Larsson.

 

[Insanity]

I'd sell him. He should be able to fetch 15-20m EUR, you'd think

We'll ask for 5m-8m EUR and get 2m-5m looking at the clubs he has been linked with.

I think last season Sevilla has an option for 9m (iirc), can't see him going for more than that.

 

[77]

A season at Ibrox or Parkheed would make or break him.

 

[Santos J]

We'll ask for 5m-8m EUR and get 2m-5m looking at the clubs he has been linked with.

I think last season Sevilla has an option for 9m (iirc), can't see him going for more than that.

Sevilla's option was £14m + £3m in add-ons

 

[Insanity]

Sevilla's option was £14m + £3m in add-ons

Ahhh...you are right. Seems like it was 20m EUR including add-ons.

I guess we'd be looking for 10m-15m EUR then. Bur don't know if the Scottish clubs have that paying capacity.

 

[Gandalf]

He should be sold this summer, he hasn't shown enough and his disastrous loan at Seville is unacceptable, apparently he had attitude issues and Seville manager was unhappy with him.

Let's cash in on whatever we can get for him since his contract expires next summer

He definitely should be sold but the bolded part it seems is not true. There was an issue at the beginning of his loan where he supposedly laughed at a teammate mis controlling a ball in training which seems to have ruffled the feathers of some of his teammates but that is hardly an unforgivable sin and would not justify tagging him with a bad attitude.

Towards the end of the loan it was reported that the deal to bring him to Sevilla was brokered by the club against the wishes of the Coach and so the reason he was not being played was nothing to do with him but due to internal politics at the club. Sevilla were desperately poor last season and the supporters and the board were keen for Hannibal to be played even if it was only because it would mean dropping one of the senior players who were not performing but the Coach dug in his heels and refused to select him. None of this is to say Hannibal would have been a huge success had he played more but the narrative that the loan failed because of his attitude is unfair to him.

 

[Fortitude]

@Fortitude thanks for the posts, I assume you've seen him for the academy or followed his progress. Stupid question but as I've seen only his cameos for the first team... do you think the rashness you speak about is actually his style of play? Or he's just not applying himself in the situation at the highest level? If its the former, as in, if thats his strength of getting stuck in and being aggressive... That can be moulded into something progressive like a destroyer. If its the latter and unpredictable then am afraid he's always going to be someone the manager won't or can't trust.

When he arrived at the club he was known as highly technical and creative - he looked a real talent. Opponents targeted him non-stop with dirty, cynical play and he was forced to “man up” and become something he wasn’t on a trajectory to be. He not only transformed in terms of toughness, but it became something that preceded him. He became over zealous, easily distracted and put off his game, like preoccupied with battling and scrapping, and gradually his skills started to be compromised because he was so far tilted with the physical aspect and just scrapping and proving his machismo that I personally think it consumed him and indelibly changed his career path.

The player we see in the adult game running around and being a nuisance is a 180 of the player who initially got here who was silky, composed and had a game supposed around his ability, not his physicality or gameness to scrap.

I don’t think Hannibal really has an identity anymore, tbh. This Scrappy Doo stuff is detrimental and he’s clearly not composed enough to do it, but he’s boxed himself in and the player he was barely gets a look in, which is a real shame. So when you ask if it’s not applying, I’d say he doesn’t really know how to apply himself as this player, isn’t the guy a lot of us were initially impressed by when he came to the club.

I’ll hazard a guess, he’ll never be the player he was again - fundamentally, that touch of class and composure he used to have is rarely seen and most of his game looks forced and hurried, which is why it’s hard to get a real impression of what he is or what he’s about.

For me, there’s zero chance of him making at United, but his challenge at the moment would be to be a pro who is top league worthy, and see what he can go on to do from there. With his temperament, that’s far from assured.

 

[MikeKing]

I really believe some people doubt his talent, a bit unfairly. Sure you have got to prove yourself at any level, but at his age, and from what I've seen of him, I do feel like given a half chance in a good team at any level he would impress. His biggest strengths is tenacity, technical ability and work rate. Such a player could potentially be really important to any team. His problem of not having a fixed position at his age is detrimental and it saddens me a bit if we're trying to sell him. I do feel like a loan to either a progressive championship club, or a club in the Netherlands might be the best option, but either way I surely would extend his contract and put some faith in him. I don't see why not. Even if we're looking for better options down the road, I believe his value wont go down from here.

 

[Gandalf]

I really believe some people doubt his talent, a bit unfairly. Sure you have got to prove yourself at any level, but at his age, and from what I've seen of him, I do feel like given a half chance in a good team at any level he would impress. His biggest strengths is tenacity, technical ability and work rate. Such a player could potentially be really important to any team. His problem of not having a fixed position at his age is detrimental and it saddens me a bit if we're trying to sell him. I do feel like a loan to either a progressive championship club, or a club in the Netherlands might be the best option, but either way I surely would extend his contract and put some faith in him. I don't see why not. Even if we're looking for better options down the road, I believe his value wont go down from here.

I am afraid that ship has sailed as the way he was used in LA this weekend indicates he is not in the clubs plans and suggested that had Rasmus not been hurt he would not have played at all. ETH clearly had a plan to switch all 10 outfield players at the half and so he used one of the few players not in that second half XI to fill in for 30 minutes for Rasmus even though it once again saw Hannibal playing completely out of position.

We just scooped up a couple of teenage talents and are crowing about how Garnacho and Mainoo show that there is a pathway here for talented youngsters but Hannibal is the cautionary tale to offset that. I think he was an exceptional talent at 16 and with hindsight it is difficult to think of how we could have made a bigger mess of his development if we tried. I do believe he could still have a good career but we are at the point where it is better for the club and the player if he makes a permanent move and for his sake I hope he ends up in a technical league where his natural abilities can actually be developed.

 

[wolvored]

I can’t say I’ve seen a lot of him, but the glimpses I have had haven’t shown anything special. If his contract is up next summer sell him for £5/6 mill with a high sell on clause. Not every kid makes it

 

[lex talionis]

Hannibal looks decent enough to thrive at the midtable club level for a long time. But no, I don't see a future for him with United.

 

[UnRational]

I thought he’d already been moved on.

 

[Bondi77]

If Celtic are interested that would be a great move for him.

 

[userman]

If we're selling both McT and Wan Bissaka + potentially also Sancho, who are all Homegrown, I do think it would make sense to keep Hannibal as a squad option this season. I doubt that he would fetch us anymore than 5m at the maximum now and he's on low wages. So a low cost squad player that could surprise/develop and prove his worth (meaning a new contract).

 

[pcaming]

Another wasted talent, I'm not sure why we don't just sell him. Wasting our time hoping he kicks on somewhere...

 

[bringbackbebe]

If we're selling both McT and Wan Bissaka + potentially also Sancho, who are all Homegrown, I do think it would make sense to keep Hannibal as a squad option this season. I doubt that he would fetch us anymore than 5m at the maximum now and he's on low wages. So a low cost squad player that could surprise/develop and prove his worth (meaning a new contract).

There's nothing Hannibal has done to show he deserves to be an option for the Manchester United first team. Except maybe pick silly fights and rile up opposition players by doing dumb things.

 

[userman]

There's nothing Hannibal has done to show he deserves to be an option for the Manchester United first team. Except maybe pick silly fights and rile up opposition players by doing dumb things.

Though I do agree with that, we need bodies/options in the squad and we also need to fulfill our HG-quota to optimize our squad. I’m pretty sure that we will recruit at least one or even two midfielders this window, and that we sell McT and perhaps also Eriksen. If Hannibal can enable us to sell McT for a decent figure and help fulfill both as HG and backup-option he’s a low-cost option that would lessen the need to buy a HG-player with the “tax” involved with that.
He will effectively be a 5th or 6th midfield option, but give us an option to rest players in the domestic cups and EL.

 

[bringbackbebe]

Though I do agree with that, we need bodies/options in the squad and we also need to fulfill our HG-quota to optimize our squad. I’m pretty sure that we will recruit at least one or even two midfielders this window, and that we sell McT and perhaps also Eriksen. If Hannibal can enable us to sell McT for a decent figure and help fulfill both as HG and backup-option he’s a low-cost option that would lessen the need to buy a HG-player with the “tax” involved with that.
He will effectively be a 5th or 6th midfield option, but give us an option to rest players in the domestic cups and EL.

What is the logic behind keeping and relying on Hannibal and selling McT? One of these two had a 10 goal season and the other could barely break into a mid table La Liga side and had a bunch of attitude problems as added burden to carry.

 

[Berbasbullet]

He did well away to Palace last season where he covered an insane amount of ground.

 

[Grande]

What is the logic behind keeping and relying on Hannibal and selling McT? One of these two had a 10 goal season and the other could barely break into a mid table La Liga side and had a bunch of attitude problems as added burden to carry.

One will fetch £25,5m which goes more than half the way to get a Ugarte. The other will get us £12m if we can trick Celtic and Rangers into a joint bidding war.

One will probably not develop much more, or acrue more worth than right now, the other just might.

Moot point, it seems both will go, almost a whole Ugarte together.

 

[Borys]

He's a running body with decent technical ability. I doubt he's going to make it on a serious level. I can see him sliding down to Championship or tier 2 league.
I also think the club struggles to sell him as he never seemed to be in the plans.

 

[Marcus]

Very disappointed. For a while I thought he was the real deal. A Rolls Royce of a midfielder with good passing range and intelligence on the ball. I have the impression that it is his hot headed temperament that started to curtail his game. Maybe when he loses his cool everything else becomes harder to execute, whereas some players excel in adversity.

 

[Wing Attack Plan R]

When he arrived at the club he was known as highly technical and creative - he looked a real talent. Opponents targeted him non-stop with dirty, cynical play and he was forced to “man up” and become something he wasn’t on a trajectory to be. He not only transformed in terms of toughness, but it became something that preceded him. He became over zealous, easily distracted and put off his game, like preoccupied with battling and scrapping, and gradually his skills started to be compromised because he was so far tilted with the physical aspect and just scrapping and proving his machismo that I personally think it consumed him and indelibly changed his career path.

The player we see in the adult game running around and being a nuisance is a 180 of the player who initially got here who was silky, composed and had a game supposed around his ability, not his physicality or gameness to scrap.

I don’t think Hannibal really has an identity anymore, tbh. This Scrappy Doo stuff is detrimental and he’s clearly not composed enough to do it, but he’s boxed himself in and the player he was barely gets a look in, which is a real shame. So when you ask if it’s not applying, I’d say he doesn’t really know how to apply himself as this player, isn’t the guy a lot of us were initially impressed by when he came to the club.

I’ll hazard a guess, he’ll never be the player he was again - fundamentally, that touch of class and composure he used to have is rarely seen and most of his game looks forced and hurried, which is why it’s hard to get a real impression of what he is or what he’s about.

For me, there’s zero chance of him making at United, but his challenge at the moment would be to be a pro who is top league worthy, and see what he can go on to do from there. With his temperament, that’s far from assured.

I think that's 100% correct assessment. He changed drastically and plays currently like it's a tussle in the park without referees, where you have to physically knock someone back to get some respect. His style doesn't not seem to fit with the Premier League or what kind of team we're trying to build. Maybe we could loan him to a French club so he can spend a season working on finesse.

 

[Insanity]

He does have the skills and when you watch him it looks like everything can come together but you never know when that would be or if it will. In our situation we can't give him a new contract based on that hope that it'll happen. It would be best for everyone if he leaves. Hopefully, we'd include a buy back and a sell-on clause in the deal.

 

[Chipper]

Give him a bunch of war elephants and send him to attack Italy?

 

[userman]

What is the logic behind keeping and relying on Hannibal and selling McT? One of these two had a 10 goal season and the other could barely break into a mid table La Liga side and had a bunch of attitude problems as added burden to carry.

The logic is that both shouldn’t be anything more than fringe players and one will get us about 25m and the other probably 5m that we can reinvest in a regular starter…
McT wouldn’t necessarily be on top of my “sell-list” as he’s a useful squad player in certain scenarios, but he’s got buyers that we can sell to for a meaningful fee, unlike most of our other fringe/unwanted players.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Give him a bunch of war elephants and send him to attack Italy?

Seconded. With a nice Chianti.

 

[Sunny Jim]

Sell him to a willing buyer at a fair market value.

 

[Highfather_24]

ETH has his favourites, and he's pretty stubborn with it. Its why Amad barely got a look in last season in favour of Antony, I remember Amad being pushed to false 9 last preseason as well. Its why Mejbri always gets played as a false 9 or winger, despite being a CM.

Amad had to really really prove himself to get some chances, including getting a season defining goal at Anfield.

Mejbri should leave for his own sake. He's not gonna get chances, and certainly not in the position he's good at(#8).

 

[Fortitude]

I think that's 100% correct assessment. He changed drastically and plays currently like it's a tussle in the park without referees, where you have to physically knock someone back to get some respect. His style doesn't not seem to fit with the Premier League or what kind of team we're trying to build. Maybe we could loan him to a French club so he can spend a season working on finesse.

I think a big problem with lacking identity is not knowing what you should be doing or how you fit in, and it’s not so much a loan that’s an issue in that instance, than the mentor and coaching he gets. Imo, he badly needs a firm coach who wholeheartedly believes in him and gets him to discover himself and put everything he has into the self rediscovered. If someone can look beyond the facade of mindless, hot-headed idiot and tap into the player, we will get to see what he has to offer a side and just how good he actually is, otherwise, he’ll be a non-entity, bouncing around from club to club as a “difficult personality” dropping lower and lower down the leagues and footballing pyramid.

Big problem for him is he’s not a kid anymore and the kid gloves and tolerance once shown to him will become more and more scant, to the point he’ll be seen as a write off if he doesn’t buck his ideas up. He’s gone from very highly touted to an afterthought, and it’s quite sad to see, but he’s not at rock bottom and it’s not too late for him either. I believe that the talent is there, but it’s useless if he himself can’t harness it.

A sale with buyback option would be my preferred route. If he doesn’t mature and develop, oh well, but if he does, we get to throw our hat in. Sounds good to me.

 

[Wing Attack Plan R]

I think a big problem with lacking identity is not knowing what you should be doing or how you fit in, and it’s not so much a loan that’s an issue in that instance, than the mentor and coaching he gets. Imo, he badly needs a firm coach who wholeheartedly believes in him and gets him to discover himself and put everything he has into the self rediscovered. If someone can look beyond the facade of mindless, hot-headed idiot and tap into the player, we will get to see what he has to offer a side and just how good he actually is, otherwise, he’ll be a non-entity, bouncing around from club to club as a “difficult personality” dropping lower and lower down the leagues and footballing pyramid.

Big problem for him is he’s not a kid anymore and the kid gloves and tolerance once shown to him will become more and more scant, to the point he’ll be seen as a write off if he doesn’t buck his ideas up. He’s gone from very highly touted to an afterthought, and it’s quite sad to see, but he’s not at rock bottom and it’s not too late for him either. I believe that the talent is there, but it’s useless if he himself can’t harness it.

A sale with buyback option would be my preferred route. If he doesn’t mature and develop, oh well, but if he does, we get to throw our hat in. Sounds good to me.

It’s pretty sad, I agree with you. But we’ve been here before with hotshot youngsters who didn’t make it, Angel Gomes and Shola Shoretire being two recent ones. Hope he gets a good move.

 

[Kag]

Sell him for a half decent fee and include a sell on clause. Use the money.

 

[Dve]

Never thought he would make it at United, and I don't think he'll be picked up by any PL side. Maybe Birmingham would want him back. If we get 5m for him, I think that's a good deal.

 

[Baneofthegame]

We will probably get 5-8 million euros for him, think he’s got nowhere near his early potential, which is unfortunate.

 

[Glorio]

Really had high hopes for this one, and I've not entirely given up and hope this new batch of coaches see something.

I saw Angel, Andreas too, but the way Hannibal used to glide past players was something else. Long pass, short pass, not limited physically either, running games seemingly on his own, he genuinely had all the tools to be big player. I don't know about his mentality but it all currently seems like such a waste.

One of those I felt EtH never rated at all (not that he's helped with picking up yellow cards all over the place in proper games). Especially considering in just about every pre-season, he's played him as a stand in forward.

 

[kundalini]

Andy Mitten did an interview with Hannibal recently for The National. Reading between the lines, Hannibal has lost patience with sitting on the bench waiting for opportunities. There were mentions of Elanga and Mengi getting plenty of playing time after leaving United. Think he will be intent on leaving before the end of the transfer window.

There is a very small window of opportunity to get these talented foreign youngsters into the first team before they lose patience. Bringing in Eriksen, then Mount, doomed any slim chance that Hannibal might make it at United. Ten Hag being given the benefit of the doubt by INEOS clarified the situation.

 

[In Rainbows]

Andy Mitten did an interview with Hannibal recently for The National. Reading between the lines, Hannibal has lost patience with sitting on the bench waiting for opportunities. There were mentions of Elanga and Mengi getting plenty of playing time after leaving United. Think he will be intent on leaving before the end of the transfer window.

There is a very small window of opportunity to get these talented foreign youngsters into the first team before they lose patience. Bringing in Eriksen, then Mount, doomed any slim chance that Hannibal might make it at United. Ten Hag being given the benefit of the doubt by INEOS clarified the situation.

Hannibal seems like he has a good head on his shoulders. His mom was a physio, and his older sister became a physician. It's a really good interview.

 

[aeh1991]

Sell him with a buy option and sell-on clause. INEOS is good at doing that.

 

[Wing Attack Plan R]

Andy Mitten did an interview with Hannibal recently for The National. Reading between the lines, Hannibal has lost patience with sitting on the bench waiting for opportunities. There were mentions of Elanga and Mengi getting plenty of playing time after leaving United. Think he will be intent on leaving before the end of the transfer window.

There is a very small window of opportunity to get these talented foreign youngsters into the first team before they lose patience. Bringing in Eriksen, then Mount, doomed any slim chance that Hannibal might make it at United. Ten Hag being given the benefit of the doubt by INEOS clarified the situation.

Elanga and Mengi actually look a bit inferior to Hannibal, but if he thinks he’s getting in ahead of Eriksen and Mount, he’s sorely mistaken. I don’t see his strengths as being anything like Eriksen, with the ability to break lines with passes and so on. We are going to be light in midfield, maybe we should hang onto him.

 

[Xeque_279]

Honestly I can't see him making it here or in the EPL in general. Doesn't seem to have the skill or the mentality. Better to ship him off for cheap and attach a sell on %.