What should be the minimum expectation for Amorim this season?

sullydnl said:
xG difference per 90 so far this season:

Chelsea: +0.73
Spurs: +0.61
Villa: +0.40
United: -0.16

Our performances could improve significantly under Amorim and still be short of the level some of the teams above us have already been producing this season. Because the current points difference underplays the gap that has existed between us and those teams in terms of actual performances.

And that's not even factoring in several other teams who have also been performing better than us so far, or the fact that other teams can also improve.

It would take miracle-work on Amorim's part to get us performing better than all those teams. And if we're not performing better than them, there's no reason to think we'll accumulate more points than them across the rest of the season.
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The sample size is too small, these teams didnt play the same 14 teams so far either, and we've had 3 managers in 14 games too.

Villa, Spurs, Newcastle and United are all within 3 points each other currently.

Villa are also inconsistent and just not as good as people thought they were. Newcastle are awful. Spurs have very high highs, but very low lows. Even Chelsea don't really have the squad quality yet where it's safe to say they won't drop off.

The smaller teams that start a season well almost always gradually fall off too, like Brighton, Nottingham and Brentford will, eventually.

I'm not saying we'll certainly make 4th or 5th, but to claim it would be a miracle to do is wide off the mark.
 
Rojofiam said:
Not good enough for what? 4th or 5th place? They are comfortably capable of that. And we are 4 points off 5th at the moment with many of those apparently better teams than us behind United in the table.

Being pessimistic about United and underestimating our squad whilst overestimating rivals won't make you unbiased...
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Our attackers are not good enough for a top 4 position, the table does not lie. Amorim will not turn Höjlund into Benzema, or Garnacho into Salah. There is only so much he can do with these players. Top 4 is not totally unrealistic but will be very difficult. There is no magical tactical formula that can compensate for basic technical ability. Watched Newcastle yesterday and their attacking play is much better than ours and they are not top 4.

Rashford, Garnacho, Höjlund and Zirkzee might have had a field day vs Everton but I don't rate any one of them.

Edit: to me Gordon is better than Rashford and Garnacho, and Isak is better than Höjlund. Is Höjlund even better than Wilson? I am not sure.
 
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EtH spent a fortune on assembling this squad that will need to be completely gutted and rebuilt again. Every area of the pitch needs strengthening and while I think he was a smart appointment, he’s going to struggle to get much out of this squad he’s inherited.

How nice would it have been to have appointed him in the summer instead of giving the other guy another transfer window to waste.
 
I don't expect anything against the likes of Arsenal on the road right now, we need to start beating the teams we should be beating on paper firstly and show we can impose ourselves and dominate them.
 
With so little training time, I'll be happy if he can get the players understanding and playing his system fluidly identify those who cannot and having a plan of how to replace them before next season.
 
Cathy Ferguson said:
Our attackers are not good enough for a top 4 position, the table does not lie. Amorim will not turn Höjlund into Benzema, or Garnacho into Salah. There is only so much he can do with these players. Top 4 is not totally unrealistic but will be very difficult. There is no magical tactical formula that can compensate for basic technical ability. Watched Newcastle yesterday and their attacking play is much better than ours and they are not top 4.

Rashford, Garnacho, Höjlund and Zirkzee might have had a field day vs Everton but I don't rate any one of them.
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The table doesn't lie after 14 games? Of course it absolutely does.

It's clear I won't be able to change your opinion on this so I'm not gonna post about this anymore but your thought process is really flawed.

Newcastle have the same amount of goals as us, and if you've watched them this season, they've been even worse at breaking down low-blocks than United have been in recent years. A lot of their results flatter to deceive and they got lucky in several games that they didn't lose.

They haven't had a good, left-footed, right sided winger for years either and that's one of the biggest causes of their issues.

All of their apparently much better attacking options are struggling as well. Even Isak has been anonymous and has had matches where he totally disappeared for 90 minutes in the opposition's box and couldn't influence the game at all. Gordon has scored penalties and from transitions in big games where space opened up for Newcastle. But other than that both him and Barnes struggle vs low-blocks because they're not given any options to pass to or space to run into. Just like Rashford, Garnacho and every other winger we had last season. Several of their attackers and midfielders are still goalless in the league as well.

United have looked miles better under Amorim already than Newcastle has this season overall. We will finish above Newcastle, score more goals, and concede less. It's highly likely.
 
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Cathy Ferguson said:
Our attackers are not good enough for a top 4 position, the table does not lie. Amorim will not turn Höjlund into Benzema, or Garnacho into Salah. There is only so much he can do with these players. Top 4 is not totally unrealistic but will be very difficult. There is no magical tactical formula that can compensate for basic technical ability. Watched Newcastle yesterday and their attacking play is much better than ours and they are not top 4.

Rashford, Garnacho, Höjlund and Zirkzee might have had a field day vs Everton but I don't rate any one of them.

Edit: to me Gordon is better than Rashford and Garnacho, and Isak is better than Höjlund. Is Höjlund even better than Wilson? I am not sure.
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I don’t know if Gordon will *always* be better than Garnacho, he strikes me as one of those players who suddenly might click for. But I think it’s clear Isak is a class above Hojlund and will be for the whole of his career.
 
I don't think we'll get top 4, we're clearly very behind in terms of quality and consistency the likes of city, Liverpool and arsenal. Chelsea are free flowing and scoring goals for fun, so I think they'll get the 4th spot.

5th should be an acceptable target for us and Amorim. So we're up against Newcastle, spurs, villa, Brighton.
 
Probably the worst set of United players we've had post Saf, especially in attack. Honestly, I don't know where the goals are going to come from.
The consistency and mental resilience isn't great either. Ruben has a up hill struggle to get a tune out of these guys.

Prediction : Top 4 and if Amorim doesn't achieve this he should be sacked.
 
Rojofiam said:
It's clear I won't be able to change your opinion on this so I'm not gonna post about this anymore but your thought process is really flawed.

Newcastle have the same amount of goals as us, and if you've watched them this season, they've been even worse at breaking down low-blocks than United have been in recent years. A lot of their results flatter to deceive and they got lucky in several games that they didn't lose.

They haven't had a good, left-footed, right sided winger for years either and that's one of the biggest causes of their issues.

All of their apparently much better attacking options are struggling as well. Even Isak has been anonymous and has had matches where he totally disappeared for 90 minutes in the opposition's box and couldn't influence the game at all. Gordon has scored penalties and from transitions in big games where space opened up for Newcastle. But other than that both him and Barnes struggle vs low-blocks because they're not given any options to pass to or space to run into. Just like Rashford, Garnacho and every other winger we had last season. Several of their attackers and midfielders are still goalless in the league as well.

United have looked miles better under Amorim already than Newcastle has this season overall. We will finish above Newcastle, score more goals, and concede less. It's highly likely.
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I just comment on things how they are, from my subjective perspective, not how I wish things would be. Still early days for Amorim so let's see where we are after another 10 games. Glad we got rid of ETH that is for sure.

PS. It is a fact that we scored 0 at home to Liverpool, whereas Newcastle scored 3. They looked better than us going forward.
 
FrankDrebin said:
Probably the worst set of United players we've had post Saf, especially in attack. Honestly, I don't know where the goals are going to come from.
The consistency and mental resilience isn't great either. Ruben has a up hill struggle to get a tune out of these guys.

Prediction : Top 4 and if Amorim doesn't achieve this he should be sacked.
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What? I am pessimistic but even 10th shouldn't mean he is fired in 2025. 10th in 2026 might get him fired. 5th this season would be great progress.
 
Considering what he has to work with, I would say that I'd be happy to just see us being competitive in the majority of games, playing some exciting football at times and with a clear style of play to know what we're aiming for.
 
I honestly don't care about what position we end up in in, but I do care that we start to push for the title next season!
 
Honestly, I think top-four should be the goal for this season. I get that Amorim's still settling in, and it's going to take time for the team to fully adapt to his style, but a top-four finish feels achievable, especially with some improvement in consistency. Winning the Europa League would be a great bonus, but I wouldn’t put too much pressure on that just yet. Getting back into the Champions League is probably the most important thing for now.
 
Help in anyway to stop Liverpool from winning the treble/quadruple
 
Top 4 is now long gone, even if we can cause an upset away at both City and Liverpool, which is very unlikely.
Final PL table position could be anywhere between 5th and 10th, the way it stands at the moment, as we’re only a few points behind, but it’s going to be a hard slog trying to crawl out of the bottom half of the table, unless we can string together a run of wins.
With the upcoming fixtures, we are likely to still be in the bottom half in early January.

The best we can expect from Amorim, is to get this squad playing as a consistent solid unit in the 2nd half of the season.
Maybe a shot at the League cup?
Europa may be our best chance of winning anything, but it’s still not certain we can even go through to the later stages.
I just want to see an entertaining, positive and cohesive team, playing consistently well to give us hope that real progress is happening.
 
Why is everyone so pessimistic about our chances of Top 5?
Top 4 is gone but we can easily and should be challenging with Newcastle and Spurs for the 5th place.
We are only like 3 points from the 5th spot so it is definitely achievable.
I predict that we will finish 5th this season.
 
I think top 4 is something we really aren't ready for, and is beyond reasonable expectations. Providing we're not relegation candidates, which seems ridiculous, a clear style of play and putting foundations in place is more important.

Having just realized that none of the teams from the Champions League drop into the Europa League, we really should fancy ourselves as a strong contender looking at the other sides in there. The longer the season goes on, I expect this will be prioritized. Looking at the teams in there, there's some good ones (Galatasaray, Spurs, Lazio etc.) but nothing formidable.
 
To put things into perspective: typically, the clubs finishing 5th each season aren't losing more than 12 or 13 matches. Sometimes they're losing as few as 10.

Do any of you actually think we're making it through the final 23 league matches having only lost 5 or 6 of them? We've still got away matches against City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Spurs, Newcastle, and Forest. We also still have City and Arsenal to play at home.

If any of you think we're ending up in fifth, you're living in a fantasy world.

If Amorim can drag this slop to 7th or 8th I'll be impressed.
 
Assess and review the club from top to bottom.

Makes changes as required (in any area).

Stamp his authority on the Club and be a true leader.
 
Sort Onana. Settle on a starting lineup. Move some of the crap off the roster. Impeach Trump.
 
This season:
Win europa league for CL spot.
Feck the league (try to finish as high as possible though).

After this season:
Sell players that can't be bothered anymore.
Sign more Maz is Maz is Maz is Maz is Maz is Maz is like Maz is like kind of players.
Get some promising youth players in from the academy.
 
A coherent style of play, which is the bare minimum for any coach. Thus far I've been content with what I've seen and we can only get better at this point (or at least one would hope).
 
The minimum should be better than Ten Hag so 7th place, which seems reasonable considering the xtruggling start of this season.
 
Ace said:
How nice would it have been to have appointed him in the summer instead of giving the other guy another transfer window to waste.
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INEOS really screwed up with this
 
I expect him to just show progression on the pitch in some way. I don't expect him to go far in any cups or finish lower than we are now. Low bar but I'd rather set it like that than be disappointed as I think the progress is going to be slow and we're in for a very rocky season.

I think the club should have similar expectations for this season, if we're talking about what he needs to do to avoid getting sacked, and then up them a lot next season. I think the club should be thinking if we really struggle this season so be it, as long as there are signs that he is leading well, hasn't lost the dressing room, knows what the issues are, we have improved by the end of the season and look more like a team with a strategy and so on. Next season we should be aiming for a comfortable top 5/6 and solid cup runs, and if that fails to be achieved there better be some really good stuff showing on the pitch to avoid a sacking. Third season cement ourselves in the top 4 and start pushing onto challenging for the title. That'll take some really good recruiting though.
 
tenpoless said:
This season:
Win europa league for CL spot.
Feck the league (try to finish as high as possible though).

After this season:
Sell players that can't be bothered anymore.
Sign more Maz is Maz is Maz is Maz is Maz is Maz is like Maz is like kind of players.
Get some promising youth players in from the academy.
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Us winning the Europa would be akin to Leicester winning the premier league again. Don’t think it will happen
 
Europa League
at least 1 more final (Carabao/FA)

But seeing some of our performances, I would take 40+ points in PL to not get relegated.
 
Bright_Eyes said:
I expect him to just show progression on the pitch in some way. I don't expect him to go far in any cups or finish lower than we are now. Low bar but I'd rather set it like that than be disappointed as I think the progress is going to be slow and we're in for a very rocky season.

I think the club should have similar expectations for this season, if we're talking about what he needs to do to avoid getting sacked, and then up them a lot next season. I think the club should be thinking if we really struggle this season so be it, as long as there are signs that he is leading well, hasn't lost the dressing room, knows what the issues are, we have improved by the end of the season and look more like a team with a strategy and so on. Next season we should be aiming for a comfortable top 5/6 and solid cup runs, and if that fails to be achieved there better be some really good stuff showing on the pitch to avoid a sacking. Third season cement ourselves in the top 4 and start pushing onto challenging for the title. That'll take some really good recruiting though.
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I totally disagree, we are still Manchester United with huge assets and top 3 wage in EPL. The word sack should only be used when connected to Amorim’s name is if he goes on a run like Pep 1 win 2 draws and 7 defeats in 10 games.

Short Term - Rest of Season
We have 23 PL games left are currently 13th and Ruben’s had a bad start which will become very bad if he loses heavily to City tomorrow. We need to sell 1/2 players January and raise Some serious cash. The club needs to go buy V Osimhen or V Gyokeres for £65m and sacrifice M Rashford for £45m, C Eriksen £5m.

We must get him 2 major players early in January, Marquee Striker and left wing back. Then he must win 60% of the remaining PL games, he should be told that the club expects 60/20/20 win 60% draws 20% lose 20%, Concentrate on Europa League and PL, by mid January we’ll be out of both domestic cups so Ruben will have all the time he needs to drill the system.

That means that Ruben’s Target should be 13 wins 5 draws and 5 Defats in Pl as the bare minimum which would finish on 63 points and probably 7th -9th again. Over achieving would be win 15 draw 5 lose 3 that’s 69 points and probably ends up 5th which is CL football. The Europa League he has to try and win it but the target should be Semi Final

Target 25/26 Season
The club should have given him 7/8 players that suit his system including much better attacking options and another couple of major midfielders like Angel Gomes and Ederson from Atlanta.

We should qualify for Europa league as bare minimum and I’m expecting a top 3 PL challenge, City will be Out of the picture and we should be competing with Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea next season otherwise there was zero point appointing a. CEO like Berrada and one of the best young coaches like Amorim who expect to win and win big!

Ruben’s Team options for 25/26 should be;

A Onana/A Lunin (GK) *

N Mazraoui/L Yoro (RCB)
*J Tah/H Maguire (CB)
L Martinez/ L Shaw/ G kukonki LCB)

A Dialo/D Dalot(RWB)
M Ugarte/Ederson*(6/8)
K Mainoo/A Gomes*(CM)/T Collyer
M Kerkes*/D Leon*/B Mantato (LWB)

Bruno/ M Mount(L10)
F Trincao*/ T Dybling* /S Lacey (R10)
V Gyokeres*/R Hojlund/C Obi Martin (9)

These players will cost £250m with two free transfers of Johnathon Tah and Angel Gomes.

I’m convinced Amorim and now Wilcox will purge this squad and the following will be sold/released/loaned ;

A Bayinder - £5m
V Lindelof - released
J Evan’s - released
T Mallacia - £5m
MDL - £30m (Amorim doesn’t fancy him, his lack of pace is a problem and his passing and physicality are not as good as Maguire plus we need 8 homegrown players and he’ll fetch more cash)
H Amass -£10m (profit)
D Gore - £5m (profit huge mistake)
A Garnaucho - £55m (just doesn’t suit the system)
Casemiro - £15m Saudi
Eriksen - Free
Antony - £20m Saudi
J Sancho - £23m deal done
M Rashford - £42m (He’ll go this summer/100% profit)
J Zirkzee - £33m (Juventus bound to link up with Motta again)
E Wheatley - £7m (100% profit again)
That’s the £250m needed to buy those players, solves homegrown problems and sorts out the PSR issues.
 
DRJosh said:
Us winning the Europa would be akin to Leicester winning the premier league again. Don’t think it will happen
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United by far is the biggest and wealthiest club participating in this years EL, in terms of money only Spurs come close, but they are Spurs.

It's hard to find excuses for not winning the competition, United winning the EL would be like City winning the PL, not like Leicester. And similarly disappointing if it doesn't happen.
 
Just get us looking like a coherent football team and don't get us relegated.
 
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