What should be the minimum expectation for Amorim this season?

Bert_ said:
Same as it was for Ten Hag. Evidence that we are building a solid foundation and a playing system that will eventually see us consistently dominating matches. Get that right first and worry about trophies later.

Ten Hag couldn't do it despite winning a couple of cups. Hopefully Amorim can.
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Yep, pretty much this.

The blueprint that I look at is what Klopp did at Liverpool. It was obvious early on that be was building something that would put Liverpool in a much stronger place going forward. The immediate results were inconsistent and nobody knew if he'd be able to take them all the way, but he was building a solid foundation which showed potential for long-term glory. Basically the exact opposite of what ETH did here, who either played very pragmatically or incredibly naively with nothing in between, and neither way showed any potential for long-term improvement.

I hope that we can challenge for top four and/or for the Europa title, but even if we don't that's fine as long as we see the right things happening on (and off) the pitch.
 
European qualification.

I don't see how we could start to show signs of building a coherent system while failing to achieve that. It largely goes hand in hand, and if we were to not qualify then it would probably look like we weren't showing positive signs in terms of system/tactics etc.

Edit: I suppose there's the outside chance it could happen if we finished 7th and didn't get in like Newcastle last season. Still, with a chance to qualify between Carabao, FA Cup, Europa League, plus qualifying through the league would think it unlikely that we failed to qualify while starting to look like we're going places. Particularly so if England get the extra CL spot which doesn't eat into overall qualification places for the other competitions (I think). It was a surprise England didn't get it last season and are currently going well.
 
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Chipper said:
European qualification.

I don't see how we could start to show signs of building a coherent system while failing to achieve that. It largely goes hand in hand, and if we were to not qualify then it would probably look like we weren't showing positive signs in terms of system/tactics etc.
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I agree that improvements in the system and tactics closely go hand in hand with achieving better results. I expect United to make a strong run in the Europa League and secure at least a 5th or 6th place finish in the league.
 
My expectations with eth were an el win and a good run in the cups. With Amorim i see a top5 finish on top of that. Call me an optimist but we will come good
 
Chipper said:
European qualification.

I don't see how we could start to show signs of building a coherent system while failing to achieve that. It largely goes hand in hand, and if we were to not qualify then it would probably look like we weren't showing positive signs in terms of system/tactics etc.
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Spot on. I have been saying this on this forum to fans who say they want to see a system and dont care about results and league position.. how does that work?

If the system is implemented, you win more games than not.
 
It would take a miracle to finish top 5 with these players. Our strikers are not good enough. I want to see us improve and start moving in the right direction. Need 3-5 new players to become a solid top 4 team. So an end to stupid signings would be welcome.
 
MadDogg said:
Yep, pretty much this.

The blueprint that I look at is what Klopp did at Liverpool. It was obvious early on that be was building something that would put Liverpool in a much stronger place going forward. The immediate results were inconsistent and nobody knew if he'd be able to take them all the way, but he was building a solid foundation which showed potential for long-term glory. Basically the exact opposite of what ETH did here, who either played very pragmatically or incredibly naively with nothing in between, and neither way showed any potential for long-term improvement.

I hope that we can challenge for top four and/or for the Europa title, but even if we don't that's fine as long as we see the right things happening on (and off) the pitch.
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Agree, as you say early inconsistency was offset with the general opinion that "..he was building a solid foundation." I would enjoy a similar "build", a good start/sign would be to get the "team" working collectively as a TEAM, not as individual "wandering minstrels" whose interpretations of effort are sadly inadequate. If they who do not buy into this basic requirement....the door beckons.
 
If i'd see a team with prolific attacking play, lots of goals i'd be happy already. Not sure though that these players are capable of doing that but would be a huge step. With Zirkzee, Antony, etc... A big challenge for sure.
 
One thing that drove me mad about Ten Hag was that he so often never learned from his mistakes, or kept repeating selections or formations that were proven not to work.

I'll accept Ruben trying out different things, and acknowledge that sometimes they'll work and sometimes they won't, so long as he learns from them. For instance, if he tries the 2 man midfield of Erisken and Casemiro again after seeing how much they struggled against Ipswich, I'll be pissed off!

For this season, a top 4 finish or cup win should be treated as very much bonus territory if we can achieve any of them. This season is about Amorim laying the groundwork for the future.
 
I don’t really care where we finish in the table at this point. What I want to see is some progress in our play - that we are able to control games better, attack as a unit, defend as a unit, compete with the better teams and have a clear sense of identity by the end of the season. Next season is when we can start aiming for certain league table finishes etc.
 
For the rest of the season, an average 2.1 points per game. This does not guaranteed CL, but probably OK for Europa, but most important of all, a winning momentum that we should win most of the winnable games, and not walk over by top opponents. Season after season we have been disappointed by the following season, hope this is the last time.
 
Repeatable league position (between 3rd to 6th).

One cup (any of Europa/Fa Cup/League Cup)

Crystallize a clear attractive style, pattern of play.

Identify and settle on a first XI by end Feb.

Promote 1-2 youths to get minutes in some cup games.
 
cyril C said:
For the rest of the season, an average 2.1 points per game. This does not guaranteed CL, but probably OK for Europa, but most important of all, a winning momentum that we should win most of the winnable games, and not walk over by top opponents. Season after season we have been disappointed by the following season, hope this is the last time.
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Would put us on 71/72 points. Not sure we have that in us and if we managed it I'd be seriously impressed.

Would be about where you say, top 4 a lot of the time, nearly always top 5 which may well be enough for CL. Would expect the PL to get that extra spot more often than not, but I thought that last year too.

Currently Brighton and City in 4th/5th are on course for 67. Not far off them points-wise but I don't know, just seems hard to me.

We've played 6 of the bottom 7 so far, only one we haven't played is Wolves. Also played Brentford at Old Trafford who have the worst away record in the league so we don't get that easy one again. A lot of teams have played fewer games against the basement dwellers, puts us at a slight disadvantage for the rest of the season.

Chelsea have played 3 of those bottom teams, Brighton & City 4, Spurs & Newcastle 5.
 
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Hope we can have a clear "Identity/Style" mixed with entertaining football and a respectable league position would be great (still top4/Europe is achievable if we can put up a good run of games)

On top of that, clearing any of the following and recruit 3/4 quality players in the summer (Rashford,Sancho.Antony,Zirkzee,Case,Eriksen,Lindelof,Maguire,Malacia)
Keep Rashford,Zirkzee if they come good but I don't think others suit to Ruben system.
 
Europa league is a must, simply because I look at the teams involved and a fit and on it United should be in contention. If you win that then the League position in theory doesn't matter.

That said I'd like us to make a decent attempt at pushing for that top four position.
 
Devil81 said:
Europa league is a must, simply because I look at the teams involved and a fit and on it United should be in contention. If you win that then the League position in theory doesn't matter.

That said I'd like us to make a decent attempt at pushing for that top four position.
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Agreed with this. The only reason we want top 4 is CL footy and winning the EL does the same. However; anything can happen in cup football so we should aim to get it via league position.

I would like to see us go on a run of winning games, 5/6 wins in a row in the PL.

What I also want to see is us going away to Arsenal and being competitive. In the next 5 weeks, we will know alot more about this team, Arsenal x2, City, Spurs and Liverpool all away.

We can't lose all 5.
 
Devil81 said:
Europa league is a must, simply because I look at the teams involved and a fit and on it United should be in contention. If you win that then the League position in theory doesn't matter.

That said I'd like us to make a decent attempt at pushing for that top four position.
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Are you saying that as a "minimum expectation", winning the Europa League is a "must"? That is nuts. Demanding winning a knock out tournament as minimum expectation is nuts by definition.
 
For me personally I don’t have high expectations for this season and as long as we show consistent improvement as the season goes on and a style or patterns of play are formed I’ll be happy as what Amorim took on was a shambles and we shouldn’t expect miracles.

Already in just a few games though we’ve seen an on pitch identity and patterns of play and that’s without bringing in players that Amorim may want to play his preferred tactics, I think 18 months from now we’ll look far better as the players Amorim will want to keep we’ll be well drilled in his tactics and he’ll have had a couple of windows to bring in his own players too.
 
I’d say an attractive way of playing were you can see that the players are playing as a team and for each other. I hate seeing them play as individuals like we have been for a long time now.

He needs to get us scoring more goals, even if the games are close and on a knife edge, scoring goals breeds confidence which eventually breeds wins.

Push for 5th place I don’t see why this in impossible, we have a very strong squad of players and if he his a good coach they should get better.

Anything can happen in the cups but we need to in the thick end of the EL, the teams in there are ok but no stand outs. We should be looking to win that at all costs.
 
FortunaUtd said:
Are you saying that as a "minimum expectation", winning the Europa League is a "must"? That is nuts. Demanding winning a knock out tournament as minimum expectation is nuts by definition.
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The target should be to ensure we give ourselves the best chance to win it, I wouldn't say it's the minimum requirement but we should be going all out to ensure we win the competition.

Full strength teams etc...
 
I only have one expectation/demand of Amorim, please make us play with proper plan/style.

Now there are many elements i'd like to see in that, high line, compact shape, pass and move, pressing... We are already showing lot of signs of that. Hopefully we build on this.
 
Cathy Ferguson said:
It would take a miracle to finish top 5 with these players. Our strikers are not good enough. I want to see us improve and start moving in the right direction. Need 3-5 new players to become a solid top 4 team. So an end to stupid signings would be welcome.
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Which are these teams that are so much better than us, other than the obvious three, that are going to be finishing so far ahead of us, that it would take a miracle for us to finish 5th? Spurs, Newcastle and Villa are all inconsistent, not just in terms of results, but most certainly in their underlying statistics as well. Chelsea will drop off as well, it's almost guaranteed.

I don't see us finishing lower than 6th tbh. You are just underrating our players and overrating our rivals if 5th is unthinkable for you.
 
A few expectations for me.
• Make it a battle for top 4.
• Show clear evidence of a system and steady improvement over the course of the season.
• Lastly, which should be the easiest to achieve, score more than Ten Hag and concede less.
 
Coach the players until we can switch them from game to game without losing structure and playstyle. And have them learn about other tactics as well for changes mid game if we need to counter the opponent's.

Thats it really. I guess top 4 would be nice but if he can give us a solid baseline in one season (actually less) then we would all be looking forward for next season. And maybe actually challenge after 2 seasons. I dont want any other false dawn.
 
Personally I don't expect too much from Amorim this season. I just want to enjoy watching football again which I have enjoyed the last two games anyways, maybe not the Ipswich game. Towards the end of this season I hope I can fully see what Amorim is trying to implement. I'd also like to see if he can introduce any of the academy players this year which may help with transfers in the summer. Next year I want to see a solid fight for top 4 whilst playing entertaining attacking football.
 
get to the final of the EL
win a cup if we get decent draws
top 4 is still very much on but we need to start taking points from the teams above us again and winning the easier home games convincingly.

I think everyone will be quietly confident behind the scenes that we can still have a decent season and a platform to build on. To be fair to INEOS they got rid of ETH in time for us to be able to salvage the season. RA already looks to be a better attacking coach so our games should be fun to watch again at least and 3 st the back should shore us up. I didn’t like the formation before he came in but I don’t really care as long as it’s somewhat entertaining and the players are playing happy and well
 
Devil81 said:
The target should be to ensure we give ourselves the best chance to win it, I wouldn't say it's the minimum requirement but we should be going all out to ensure we win the competition.

Full strength teams etc...
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That's somewhat reasonable. Looking at history and resources United is simply the biggest club in the competition and will stay that, as there are no longer CL clubs being relegated to the EL this season. Not winning the EL would be disappointing.
 
Some semblance of structure and entertaining football. Do that and the results tend to figure themselves out.

I’m not getting wrapped up in league positions and points totals.
 
romufc said:
I dont see how "I dont care about league position" and "just want to see the team playing the way he wants" be said in the same sentence?

Surely, if the team plays the way he wants and has a style, we pick up points?

Also... the reason Ten Hag was sacked is because he was such a poor coach and we were still 4 points off top 4. He has to deliver top 6.
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It goes a long way to it, but sometimes when you get the team playing your style it can exposes the weaknesses in certain areas.

I'd be happy to see Amorim make his mark on this team this season by implementing a style of play, and to have a clear idea on who needs to be brought in the next couple transfer windows to complete the team and get us challenging.
 
Strong signs of the team playing in the manner Amorim wants them to. Thats about it. Honestly though, as someone said earlier in this thread, if he manages this then he should be getting into at least the EL. The league isn't very good this season when it comes to stand out teams bar Liverpool so despite a poor start to the season we aren't miles away from CL football still. I don't expect that but I do expect at least EL. I won't be shocked if we don't but if he makes good progress in changing the way we play then I will be very pleased.
 
Progress with the new system
Players working hard and look like they enjoy themselves
United fun to watch again

European football, with maybe a top 4 challenge
 
Jericho said:
It goes a long way to it, but sometimes when you get the team playing your style it can exposes the weaknesses in certain areas.

I'd be happy to see Amorim make his mark on this team this season by implementing a style of play, and to have a clear idea on who needs to be brought in the next couple transfer windows to complete the team and get us challenging.
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While I get that weaknesses will be exposed, you cant keep saying oh.. the system works but we concede alot of goals.. that would mean the system is not working, or the style is not working.

For instance, the goals conceded v Bodo you can put down to system and Malacia fitness but if the same goal happens 3/4 times, you have to look at the system.

Regardless of who we sign, if the system is flawed, it will remain flawed.
 
Rojofiam said:
Which are these teams that are so much better than us, other than the obvious three, that are going to be finishing so far ahead of us, that it would take a miracle for us to finish 5th? Spurs, Newcastle and Villa are all inconsistent, not just in terms of results, but most certainly in their underlying statistics as well. Chelsea will drop off as well, it's almost guaranteed.

I don't see us finishing lower than 6th tbh. You are just underrating our players and overrating our rivals if 5th is unthinkable for you.
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I think Chelsea will finish top 4. I am not confident we will finish above Spurs, Villa, Brighton and Newcastle but hopefully it will be a tight race. Amorim is making some progress.
 
No expectation with league or cups. Would be nice to be in the top 3-6 though.
He’s obviously trying different players out in different positions at the moment but I’d like to see a more finished first team and subs and where each player plays and really see where the weak links would be then
 
Cathy Ferguson said:
I think Chelsea will finish top 4. I am not confident we will finish above Spurs, Villa, Brighton and Newcastle but hopefully it will be a tight race. Amorim is making some progress.
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Just think about how many more points our team would have if Amorim was appointed in the summer. Even if it's just a 5 point difference, which isn't an outrageous claim IMO, we'd be on 24 points and projected for a 70 points finish. I don't remember a time when that wasn't enough for at least 5th, but it's usually enough for 3rd or 4th.

Chelsea are definitely better than last season, and this good start will surely have them in the mix for top 4, but they aren't nailed-on yet.

Spurs are wildly inconsistent and have dropped points to Leicester which was a game they couldn't sustain control over for more than 45 minutes, lost to a struggling Newcastle side albeit away, lost to Brighton and Palace away, and even Ipswich at home.

Villa are winless since mid-October and are far from being an elite side.

Newcastle are totally toothless upfront against any half-decent low-block and are struggling massively. Shouldn't even have 19 points at this point, even that flatters to deceive them.

Brighton are good but we have a better squad than them. Likely a better manager too.

The top 3 are locked-in already unless City don't recover from their current form, but 4th is still achievable even for us and we should come at least close to it by the end of the season. I'm not saying we'll get definitely there, but it wouldn't be a miracle at all, if we did. We should also be favorites for the Europa League now.
 
To be able to look back at the end of the season and acknowledge that there was a marked difference after he took over relative to before, regardless of where the team places in the league and whether or not he makes a deep run in the cups.
 
Rojofiam said:
Just think about how many more points our team would have if Amorim was appointed in the summer. Even if it's just a 5 point difference, which isn't an outrageous claim IMO, we'd be on 24 points and projected for a 70 points finish. I don't remember a time when that wasn't enough for at least 5th, but it's usually enough for 3rd or 4th.

Chelsea are definitely better than last season, and this good start will surely have them in the mix for top 4, but they aren't nailed-on yet.

Spurs are wildly inconsistent and have dropped points to Leicester which was a game they couldn't sustain control over for more than 45 minutes, lost to a struggling Newcastle side albeit away, lost to Brighton and Palace away, and even Ipswich at home.

Villa are winless since mid-October and are far from being an elite side.

Newcastle are totally toothless upfront against any half-decent low-block and are struggling massively. Shouldn't even have 19 points at this point, even that flatters to deceive them.

Brighton are good but we have a better squad than them. Likely a better manager too.

The top 3 are locked-in already unless City don't recover from their current form, but 4th is still achievable even for us and we should come at least close to it by the end of the season. I'm not saying we'll get definitely there, but it wouldn't be a miracle at all, if we did. We should also be favorites for the Europa League now.
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We will be in a better position to judge after Arsenal and Forest.
 
Winning the league this season and I won’t hear any excuses. None of it. Next season, I’ll be content with top 4 though.
 
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