Smart move.
What now for Dortmund (and the Bundesliga)?
- Thread starter Wumminator
- Start date
Smart move.
I don't see what's wrong with enjoying watching a team that plays entertaining football, with some of the best young players around and having a class fanbase and stadium. Hipster? More so that people enjoy football. Get off your high horse.
So we probably will trigger his release clause then for the 2017/2018 season then.
With Hummels´ confirmed departure and Subotic also looking to be gone, the question still remains if we will become active on the market for an additional central defender. Toprak is now off the table, Mustafi likely too costly and the interest in Dragovic seems to have cooled off aswell. The latest rumours linked us to Sao Paulos CB talent Rodrigo Caio. I have only seen two full games from him (Copa QF) and I thought he looked good in both of them. Very pacey, good eye and instinct in tacklings, solid on the ball, more on the shorter end in terms of height, though. Friends of mine who follow South American closer rate him highly aswell.
With Tuchel being in charge, there is of course also the possibility of an internal solution with promoting a talent into the first squad. Here the obvious candidate would be German U17 International Patrick Fritsch, whom Tuchel is a great fan of. He already occasional included him in the first squad, but a torn ACL in October sadly put a stop to that. He appearantly recovered well from it, though. He is also in his position not less talented as Passlack or Pulisic, one of the standout players of our already very strong class of 98, which won two German U17 titles and the U19 one, and next to the major GK talent Dominik Reimann the likeliest to make the jump to play consistently for the professional squad. He might become the next breakout player for us and with Toprak being lined up in a year it would be a good opportunity to give him a shot.
i see stankovic ahead of fritsch.
at least, sarr is there ,too.
i see no place for toprak anymore, given the fact that we now got bartra. which i think is an excellent transfer!
at least, sarr is there ,too.
i see no place for toprak anymore, given the fact that we now got bartra. which i think is an excellent transfer!
I think people tend to overrate Bartra since his move became official. Financially there is probably very little risk (you can always sell hum to Stoke with a nice profit), but regarding his performances there is a question mark..
Sarr? The boy has to pray that his body holds up long enough for him to even have a professional career in the first place. Even when fit, he was not even convincing for the reserves. Gorenc-Stankovic on the other hand is a key player for said reserves, but for some reason Tuchel does not seem to rate him that highly or at least not as highly as Fritsch. I don´t see one of them having any meaningful impact for the first team, Fritsch on the other hand has at least without a doubt the potential to do so.
Bartra is for me an interesting transfer. If I would base his chances to start and become valuable for us just on the past perfomances for Barca, they would be fairly low. He has clear weaknesses in the tactical department and often times problems with his timing in tacklings. He is also not a very athletic defender and tries to solve most situations with anticipation and positioning. On the other hand he will be our strongest CB with the ball on his feet and in terms of passing, making him probably our best build up player. That means that in terms of profile he fits at least.
Bartra´s biggest problem at Barca was that he was trapped in a vicious cycle. His performances were not good enough to demand consistent starts but without a real run of games he never really had the chance to build up his confidence and solidify his game. The last time he had something resembling to a run of games was at the tail end of the 2013/2014 season. He should have left or at least asked for a loan move years ago to gain playing time and experience and by not doing so he wasted years of his development and career.
Here is the thing, though. I don´t believe his development is finished yet. The reason for that is that I don´t view the development curves by just pure age, but also by actually given playing time. His age does not suggest him being a talent but his number of caps rather resemble a 21 year old than a 25 year old. Furthermore I do believe that the majority of his beforementioned flaws can be ironed out with the correct training and enough game time under the right coach. For him a lot will depend on how much Tuchel trusts him and I think there is a good chance for that as I believe that this transfer alongside the one of Rode came from the coach rather than DoF Zorc or his scouting team.
Mkhitaryan's contract situation is interesting. What's the likelihood of him leaving this summer?
No need to be so bitter. Maybe you support them and it touched a nerve. It's not like I have anything against people supporting any club but it is the truth. Athletico Madrid have now become that cuddly cool team to like and support. It was Dortmund before.
Also, there is no high horse here. I started supporting Manchester United back in '99 because of Beckham and Scholes. Just stating facts.
Tomorrow's edition of the Kicker says: Dortmund could now sell Mkhitaryan if someone pays at least €40m for him. Contract extension is currently very unlikely.
That's overpaying for someone that's got a year left. If someone pays that they're desperate for one reason or another.
You just described us.
YES!
Rode to Dortmund is a done deal. I'm really curious how well he'll play. He was excellent for us whenever he got a chance to play and it's a shame that Pep didn't give him more playing time. I wouldn't be surprised if he does really well at Dortmund and earns himself a nomination for the nationalteam.
Well, the Rode deal is certainly amongst fans the most controversial in this window so far, but I personally like it. I was a fan of him when he was at Frankfurt and he was my favourite to succeed our former captain Sebastian Kehl, whom he resembles a lot in my book. He is not only underrated in my eyes and got the short end of the stick from Guardiola far too often taking his performances into account, but also as a clear cut box-to-box midfielder a player type we did not have until now. The last part alone will probably make him valuable for us as it gives Tuchel more tactical options and the money well spent on him.
On top of that he comes across as a very likeable person and is known to always work his ass off for the team.
On top of that he comes across as a very likeable person and is known to always work his ass off for the team.
YES !!
still everyone discusses this.
i agree with you, rode is something we missed, hope that this turns out as an excelent transfer. i totaly trust tuchel in that.
Why is it controversial? Because he's coming from Bayern?
no not because of that. ok, maybe a little
.no its cause of his playtime there, his style of play (if we need that or not), and how he fits into our (new) tactic.
but i think he offer something we miss since kehl retired, a box to box player with defense skills but also some danger for the opponent goal. alos: still young, bundelsiga proved.
was a good transfer for bayern years ago, but -like often happens at bayern- they never used him really.
no not because of that. ok, maybe a little
no its cause of his playtime there, his style of play (if we need that or not), and how he fits into our (new) tactic.
but i think he offer something we miss since kehl retired, a box to box player with defense skills but also some danger for the opponent goal. alos: still young, bundelsiga proved.
was a good transfer for bayern years ago, but -like often happens at bayern- they never used him really.
Ah, alright, cheers. I'm completly in the dark with how he plays, only remember that he was highly rated before he went to Bayern.
I'm sure it plays a huge part. We signed him on a free two years ago and now sold him for 10-14m Euro (not sure what numbers are correct) to Dortmund after he was a rarely used squad player for us. It makes it look much worse than it is though. I agree with everything @Sphaero said above and I would have loved to see him get a lot more playing time for us. Great attitude and underrated ability on the ball.
Even if he's only Dortmund's first choice back-up in midfield, he's a very good signing and I expect Tuchel to use him often.
The most stated number is 14 Mil. € which appearantly causes most of the outrage amongst the internet warriors (although I believe this is more of a front for some hurt pride on their side). First of all even in the less inflated German market that sum is far from being outragous. Thats barely more than what we got from Leverkusen for Kampl, who was an utter failure for us. Secondly Bayern clearly payed over the odds for Hummels. If you take three millions from both transfer fees (reducing Hummels fee down to 35 Mil. €, which is still a lot given the contract situation), then the Rode deal suddenly looks like a very good deal for us.
As long as Rode stays healthy (and this is the only thing I could understand doubts about), he will be a bigger contribution to our team than most fans realize. The biggest flaw of Tuchels´ team last season was a lack of balance between defense and offense and a wellrounded dynamic ball winner with good skill on the ball and in terms passing can do a lot to improve that. Rode will probably never get much credit for that just like Kehl was underrated outside his role as captain, as these type of players rarely stand out that much. This does not lower their importance and value, though.
Another important aspect here is Rode´s great attitude and character, which could make him a lead player fairly quickly inside the team. This is where the departure of Hummels hurt us the most afterall.
Depends on your definition of overpaying, although I agree that it's somewhat expensive, but there is no player with similar stats on the market. 31 games, 11 goals and 20 assists. There are enough teams not to care about 5-10m but surely Juventus ain't one (there were various rumours). Liverpool should move heaven and earth to get him, not sure he'd want to though.
Ah, alrighty then, thank you.
It's very simple. Buy him in the next registration window instead and you get a serious discount. Wait a year more and you've got him for free. With that prospect in mind Dortmund don't have a strong bargaining standpoint other than "we want X money or he goes for free".
To be honest they only had him borrowed for a couple of years. He's got Bayern DNA ffs.
They have not when you consider it a 1 vs. 1 situation with BVB and another team. But if the teams are in competition then reasons to "overpay" could exist.
Also clubs could have various reasons to overpay that refer to the fact of timeloss, in the sense of having the player in 6 month instead of tomorrow. E,g, come to the conclusion that they need Mhkitaryan now and not in a year so 40m Euros doesn't look that much anymore, especially considering an otherwise rather dry market situation (concerning attacking mids) that would require "heavy" spending anyway. My point is it's surely worth a shot in the situation Dortmund's in.
Dortmund´s transfers look are really interesting. They are getting some promising talents from around the world for reasonable fees.
Every single transfer makes sense imo. But as of right now it's a bit like eating around the edges. It's mostly an increase in depth and tactical veriety, but ultimately Bartra and Rode seem a long way off of Hummels and Gündogan in terms of individual quality. So it comes off a bit like the club is forsaking it's competitiveness (compared to Bayern/CL top teams)for the next one or two seasons in order to bet on Dembele, Passlack, Pulisic (Mor) &co to make up for it in a couple of seasons.
I imagine they have a very hard time convincing Mkhitaryan to extend his contract if they don't sign any big players.
Mind you that I don't necessarily see this as a mistake. Taking one step back in order to take two steps forward with young players can potentially be a lot more effective than committing to a short term battle against the odds.
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They have to make the best out of a difficult situation. They can´t replace the likes of Hummels or Gündogan like-for-like. It is still early in the transfer window, so I expect more to come.
Hence my comment about him being bought at that price out of desperation. A club with sense would rather compete for him in the January window but this kind of situation can create a monetary expensive example of game theory.
Fair enough then. I think we agree in principle albeit I don't share the negative connotation you seem to have towards the club that might get him for €40m.
Dortmund annoy me how they roll over and let Bayern tickle their tummy while they take their players but I guess they really dont have much choice. Even the SPL will be more of a race than the Bundesliga next few years.
imagine:
your club was nearly shut down 10 years ago. and then starting a development like a fairy tale, wining the league twice, the cup, getting into the cl final, now we are clearly a european topclub with the most audience in europe (everytime more than 80000).
in front of us are only
1. Real Madrid
2. FC Buy€rn München
3. Barcelona
4. Atletico Madrid
5. Chelsea
6. Benfica Lissabon
7. Paris SG
8. BVB
that would be frustrating for you?
i dont think so
What is this list supposed to represent again?
actual uefa clublist
Chelsea wont be in that for long
Yeah, I know that and as I said I think the deals that are (about to be) done all make a lot of sense to me, but it's a clear strategical statement (commiting to a mid to long term strategy) to me, because for example I'm sure Bartra wouldn't have signed if they were planning on bringing in a big CB signing, which would likely relegate him to a bench spot and Pulisic, Mor, Dembele tells me that you don't get yourself three wonderkids for AM roles and then sign a big name to block their development.
Dortmund are in a very lucky position to be honest.
They are so far ahead of the pack that they can give time to youngsters and develop them, while knowing their CL spot isn't under threat. Leverkusen have some good youngsters themselves and could be a threat in a year or so, but the rest.... Unless Leipzig spend big, I can't see the others catching Dortmund. It gives them a good ability to be creative in the market.
As for Bayern, I think they know that right now, they are difficult to catch, player for player and financially. It's not worth trying to directly compete with them as it would cost so much, and even then, that doesn't guarantee success.
It's very easy saying we should be this youngster and that youngster but with the demand of the Prem and so many people fighting for them 4 spots, it's very difficult to consistently integrate them.
That's my opinion anyway
They are so far ahead of the pack that they can give time to youngsters and develop them, while knowing their CL spot isn't under threat. Leverkusen have some good youngsters themselves and could be a threat in a year or so, but the rest.... Unless Leipzig spend big, I can't see the others catching Dortmund. It gives them a good ability to be creative in the market.
As for Bayern, I think they know that right now, they are difficult to catch, player for player and financially. It's not worth trying to directly compete with them as it would cost so much, and even then, that doesn't guarantee success.
It's very easy saying we should be this youngster and that youngster but with the demand of the Prem and so many people fighting for them 4 spots, it's very difficult to consistently integrate them.
That's my opinion anyway
They finished 7th only a season ago?