What is Diogo Dalot good at?

[justsomebloke]

That's actually just ONE stat - progressive passes/90. Which is quoted also in my above, taken from fbref, where anyone can find them. They seem to be employing a different definition than fbref/statsbomb though - the numbers are very different. Possibly the reason is that the statsbomb definition excludes passes hit from the 40% of the pitch closest to own goal. The figures for every player is higher in the Athletic stats, which would fit that.

In any case, you can't judge that issue on a single stat alone.

 

[mu4c_20le]

I dont even care what his ceiling is, I'm happy with his trajectory and that he's finally becoming a useful player.

Good coaching and hanging out with Ronaldo all the time has done wonders for his confidence, he's a different man now.

 

[Teja]

I was certain that he was crap but he's really having a breakout year (was decent under Ralf in a few games too). He's young and can improve quite a bit.

Still feel like he doesn't have the ceiling of a TAA or James but maybe he can hit similar levels as Cucurella.

 

[Herman Toothrot]

You didn't, I wasn't being sarcastic.

Just one game though!

Cool.

I'd agree, I think he's just fine but would love him to step up.

 

[bond19821982]

How he heck did so many managers play AwB over Dalot. Was it an English bias or aWB’s transfer fee? In hindsight, Mourinho seems right. Just needed time to grow into his body and the league

So many managers ? Only Ole did it. Ralf preferred Dalot .

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Let's not forget that he was - actually - very highly rated as an emerging talent.

In fact, I remember people waxing lyrical about his potential when we bought him.

He's clearly much better as a - let's say - modern fullback than he seemed under Ole (and Mourinho). Ultimately, though? Who knows. My gut feeling is that he'll be good but not great (at best). There's something about him that's a bit...bland, I guess. I don't see him ever developing his game to the point where he evolves into anything special. But I'll take "bland but good" (on the top level) easily, of course. If he can establish himself as a reliable option for us who is "bland but good", I won't complain at all.

 

[bond19821982]

How can he have been objectively poor? Doesn't even make any sense. He was subjectively poor in your opinion.

In my opinion he was just a young lad from a completely different footballing culture that came at a young age and had no senior experience. There wasn't even a lot to judge as he didn't get an extended run, probably because he was in fact not ready which is not a reason for big declarations.

Goes out on loan, does okay, comes back and gets a chance under Ralf, does fine without setting the world alight, and now he has really picked up.. surprise surprise after gaining a season and a half of proper experience here and in Italy.

Exactly. He just had 7 starts at Porto at the age of 18. He wasn't even ready for a senior game yet people claim he has been here since 2018. Bonkers !

 

[b82REZ]

I hope he carries on proving me wrong because I've long said he was useless (although did note he had age on his side). But anyone saying 'I told you so' is getting carried away over his first ever solid (but not spectacular) month at this point.

These are both sides of the same coin.

Everyone has knee jerked at some point but some love to declare players the worst or best they've ever seen with very little evidence.

He was a highly sought after player when we signed him. Some players take longer to settle or develop into the players they will eventually be.

Ronaldo, Messi, Rooney, Fabregas et al warped people's opinion of young players; and now the expectation often is they must hit the ground running or be labelled a flop. Dalot is following the normal trajectory of a player.

 

[red woppit]

How he heck did so many managers play AwB over Dalot. Was it an English bias or aWB’s transfer fee? In hindsight, Mourinho seems right. Just needed time to grow into his body and the league

Because AWB was better at defending generally, Dalot was poor on 1 v 1, and some of his positioning, and decision making was not great. AWB also got pulled out of position occasionally also, primarily, I believe, because we had no natural defensive midfielder, who could fill in the gaps, and having Lindelof and Maguire alongside him in the back four.
I would like to see AWB play with our current team, but not above Dalot at the moment, I'm certain he will perform better, but I'm not sure Ten Hag rates him that highly, I think he could go in the Summer.
Dalot has seemed to respond very well to Ten Hag's coaching, and he looks very motivated and full of confidence.

 

[hart]

At playing football

The talent and physical attributes are there , all he needs was coaching and experience. Against Czech i was impressed at one circumstance when he was surrounded by 2 players close the to his corner. He hold one of them using his body , then just casually juggle the ball and clear it without conceding throw in / corner.

I was certain that he was crap but he's really having a breakout year (was decent under Ralf in a few games too). He's young and can improve quite a bit.

Still feel like he doesn't have the ceiling of a TAA or James but maybe he can hit similar levels as Cucurella.

Call me delusional but his ceiling is higher than any of those player , within 3 years he will be talked as one of the best , if not the best RB in the world , hopefully we are winning something big by then so people won't question that claim.

Because AWB was better at defending generally, Dalot was poor on 1 v 1, and some of his positioning, and decision making was not great. AWB also got pulled out of position occasionally also, primarily, I believe, because we had no natural defensive midfielder, who could fill in the gaps, and having Lindelof and Maguire alongside him in the back four.
I would like to see AWB play with our current team, but not above Dalot at the moment, I'm certain he will perform better, but I'm not sure Ten Hag rates him that highly, I think he could go in the Summer.
Dalot has seemed to respond very well to Ten Hag's coaching, and he looks very motivated and full of confidence.

Never really fancy how AWB defend , he was just spamming slide tackle and gave the possession back to opposition, it's like when you troll around at FIFA. His positioning is suspect and he is very weak in the air as well.

 

[Abraxas]

Because some things are so blatant they're beyond difference of opinion.

Shaw was poor last season. Haaland has had a good start. They're not subjective opinions are they?

Similarly Dalot has been really poor up until this season. It wasn't just a young player havong the usual consistency issues. He just didn’t look up to it at all. Hopefully the penny really has dropped with him.

There isn't really an equivalence between the ideas Haaland has had a good start and Dalot being "really poor." One you're talking about ludicrous goals scored right in front of our eyes and the other you're trying to appraise a young right back where it wasn't particularly clear what his future would be and not all parts of his game have yet to come together.

The idea Dalot has been terrible up until this season is very much subjective opinion. Personally I think he was okay, particularly last season was solid enough. Even at the start he had his moments. Certainly didn't look the best young full back in Europe but not as bad as you're painting it.

 

[Mike Smalling]

Wow, just saw that second goal.

Better than Trent (who can't defend).

 

[Olecurls99]

That's actually just ONE stat - progressive passes/90. Which is quoted also in my above, taken from fbref, where anyone can find them. They seem to be employing a different definition than fbref/statsbomb though - the numbers are very different. Possibly the reason is that the statsbomb definition excludes passes hit from the 40% of the pitch closest to own goal. The figures for every player is higher in the Athletic stats, which would fit that.

In any case, you can't judge that issue on a single stat alone.

The title of the thread is what's he good at. I ventured passing, and showed a stat saying that he progresses the ball better than the other top 6 Rbs last season, barring TAA.

He's good at lots of things imo. He's an all round good footballer who needed a run.

 

[romufc]

Dalot has clearly been held back by managers, Jose was not going to play a inexperienced RB, he was bought for the future. Ole spent money on AWB so he was always going to be behind him.

Everyone always refers to that one game dalot got an opportunity which Danjuma cooked him but he was 1 v1 with space, no help whatsoever.

Rangnick and Ten Hag have given him confidence and time on the pitch, which is what young players need to develop.

 

[justsomebloke]

The title of the thread is what's he good at. I ventured passing, and showed a stat saying that he progresses the ball better than the other top 6 Rbs last season, barring TAA.

He's good at lots of things imo. He's an all round good footballer who needed a run.

Sure. My point was just that if you look at a broader set of passing stats, they really are not that good. And there's a good deal more to being good at progressing the ball than a single stat will tell you. He is very obviously not better on the ball than Reece James for example, but on the contrary very inferior.

 

[justsomebloke]

Dalot has clearly been held back by managers, Jose was not going to play a inexperienced RB, he was bought for the future. Ole spent money on AWB so he was always going to be behind him.

Everyone always refers to that one game dalot got an opportunity which Danjuma cooked him but he was 1 v1 with space, no help whatsoever.

Rangnick and Ten Hag have given him confidence and time on the pitch, which is what young players need to develop.

I don't think you can really make a case for him having been held back by managers. What happened last season was that AWB played himself out of contention, and he was the only alternative.

When he got his chance last season he generally ranged between passable and awful defensively, and between muted and good offensively. The thing that really put me off was that his bottom level was really low while his peak level wasn't that great, and his bottom level seemed to come up more frequently than his peak one did, especially defensively. To me, that translates to someone who really should not be starting regularly for an upper third PL team.

What has happened now is really just that he's had a run of games where he hasn't performed at his bottom level. But I don't see that he's shown a new top level. If it continues this way then he's a passable starter, and if he can improve his top level that'd be great.

 

[red woppit]

At playing football

The talent and physical attributes are there , all he needs was coaching and experience. Against Czech i was impressed at one circumstance when he was surrounded by 2 players close the to his corner. He hold one of them using his body , then just casually juggle the ball and clear it without conceding throw in / corner.




Call me delusional but his ceiling is higher than any of those player , within 3 years he will be talked as one of the best , if not the best RB in the world , hopefully we are winning something big by then so people won't question that claim.

Never really fancy how AWB defend , he was just spamming slide tackle and gave the possession back to opposition, it's like when you troll around at FIFA. His positioning is suspect and he is very weak in the air as well.

I don't understand your last quote, it doesn't really make sense. What's a 'spamming slide tackle', and what do you mean with 'troll around at FIFA'?

 

[OmarUnited4ever]

Sure. My point was just that if you look at a broader set of passing stats, they really are not that good. And there's a good deal more to being good at progressing the ball than a single stat will tell you. He is very obviously not better on the ball than Reece James for example, but on the contrary very inferior.

I don't want to be one of those hyping Dalot, I'm pleased with his improvements and hope that he keeps it up and improves further.

But he is not very inferior to R.James on the ball, certainly James shoots very well from distance and is a good crosser especially from dead balls, but that's it, Dalot is as good on the ball in areas like passing, first touch, ball control and so on.

But again, I'm in the camp of let's not get carried away with Dalot.

 

[romufc]

I don't think you can really make a case for him having been held back by managers. What happened last season was that AWB played himself out of contention, and he was the only alternative.

When he got his chance last season he generally ranged between passable and awful defensively, and between muted and good offensively. The thing that really put me off was that his bottom level was really low while his peak level wasn't that great, and his bottom level seemed to come up more frequently than his peak one did, especially defensively. To me, that translates to someone who really should not be starting regularly for an upper third PL team.

What has happened now is really just that he's had a run of games where he hasn't performed at his bottom level. But I don't see that he's shown a new top level. If it continues this way then he's a passable starter, and if he can improve his top level that'd be great.

Rangnick and Ten Hag have not given AWB a chance shows how they rate him at RB and as a player.

I mean the chances Dalot got under Ole was nil to non existent, you cannot expect a player to play 1/10 games and expect something amazing.

He has been given a run of games, after making mistakes he knows he wont get dropped, like he was under Ole, but was not the case for AWB, he started regardless.

 

[Skills]

Let's not forget that he was - actually - very highly rated as an emerging talent.

In fact, I remember people waxing lyrical about his potential when we bought him.

He's clearly much better as a - let's say - modern fullback than he seemed under Ole (and Mourinho). Ultimately, though? Who knows. My gut feeling is that he'll be good but not great (at best). There's something about him that's a bit...bland, I guess. I don't see him ever developing his game to the point where he evolves into anything special. But I'll take "bland but good" (on the top level) easily, of course. If he can establish himself as a reliable option for us who is "bland but good", I won't complain at all.

He didn't really play under Ole.

The most minutes he ever played under Solskjaer was in his first season - and that was split between RM & RB.

People wrote him off under Ole, under the premise that as he wasn't playing he must've been shit in training etc.

 

[Zippycup]

I honestly cant remember such an improvement from a player in such a short space of time. I can't see how the manager can have such an impact on a player in such a short space of time, but who knows, maybe he has. Whatever it is I hope he sticks to it and keeps building on his form.
I'd argue that the very large majority of fans wouldn't have batted an eyelid had he been moved on this summer. I doubt there's a fan now who wouldn't pick him in their starting 11.

 

[justsomebloke]

I don't want to be one of those hyping Dalot, I'm pleased with his improvements and hope that he keeps it up and improves further.

But he is not very inferior to R.James on the ball, certainly James shoots very well from distance and is a good crosser especially from dead balls, but that's it, Dalot is as good on the ball in areas like passing, first touch, ball control and so on.

But again, I'm in the camp of let's not get carried away with Dalot.

Re James, look at the stats. They're pretty clear and one sided in everything to do with the on-the-ball aspects.

 

[justsomebloke]

He didn't really play under Ole.

The most minutes he ever played under Solskjaer was in his first season - and that was split between RM & RB.

People wrote him off under Ole, under the premise that as he wasn't playing he must've been shit in training etc.

No, and there were pretty good reasons why he didn't play under Ole.

 

[justsomebloke]

Rangnick and Ten Hag have not given AWB a chance shows how they rate him at RB and as a player.

I mean the chances Dalot got under Ole was nil to non existent, you cannot expect a player to play 1/10 games and expect something amazing.

He has been given a run of games, after making mistakes he knows he wont get dropped, like he was under Ole, but was not the case for AWB, he started regardless.

You don't think perhaps this has something to do with Dalot having improved as a player over the past two seasons, and with AWBs game declining badly last season? Do you think if Dalot hadn't been loaned out to Milan in 20/21 but had started lots of games for United instead, he'd have been as good then as he is now?

 

[Chesterlestreet]

He didn't really play under Ole.

Yes, that's true. He only featured sporadically, and looked mostly shaky/out of his depth. As a backup for AWB (a player Ole either targeted himself, or at the very least sanctioned), he looked awful (shite defensively, meh offensively).

But that was Ole (and his system). I think we can all agree that ETH wouldn't have wanted AWB as a new, big money RB transfer.

 

[Skills]

You don't think perhaps this has something to do with Dalot having improved as a player over the past two seasons, and with AWBs game declining badly last season? Do you think if Dalot hadn't been loaned out to Milan in 20/21 but had started lots of games for United instead, he'd have been as good then as he is now?

I think keeping him away from Solskjaer probably did help his development a good amount. If we had a competent manager, we might have been able to do it in house with the minutes we wasted on AWB who never had the skillset to play for a top club.

 

[Pascal Quiff]

alliteration

 

[justsomebloke]

I think keeping him away from Solskjaer probably did help his development a good amount. If we had a competent manager, we might have been able to do it in house with the minutes we wasted on AWB who never had the skillset to play for a top club.

Right. So, he's been really held back by OGS not giving him a chance, and at the same time he's really benefited from not playing under OGS?

 

[OmarUnited4ever]

Re James, look at the stats. They're pretty clear and one sided in everything to do with the on-the-ball aspects.

I'm not arguing James is not the better player in all aspects, be he is no Alves on the ball and Dalot is no AWB on the ball, the eye test will tell you that.

I'm still expecting or more like hoping to see a lot more from Dalot in all aspects of his game, but I'm not worried about his technical ability on the ball.

 

[romufc]

You don't think perhaps this has something to do with Dalot having improved as a player over the past two seasons, and with AWBs game declining badly last season? Do you think if Dalot hadn't been loaned out to Milan in 20/21 but had started lots of games for United instead, he'd have been as good then as he is now?

I mean its also to do with age and natural progression. AWB hasn't declined, he was never good. He played well the season we were not that great, he is used to playing in underdog team, defending deep and thats it, as soon as we got a bit better and needed to transition his footballing ability showed.

I mean Dalot came back from Milan and didnt start games until Rangnick took over so, it is clear it was the manager who didn't fancy him. Also, if we got Trippier, he was out the door.

 

[justsomebloke]

I mean its also to do with age and natural progression. AWB hasn't declined, he was never good. He played well the season we were not that great, he is used to playing in underdog team, defending deep and thats it, as soon as we got a bit better and needed to transition his footballing ability showed.

I mean Dalot came back from Milan and didnt start games until Rangnick took over so, it is clear it was the manager who didn't fancy him. Also, if we got Trippier, he was out the door.

Ah yes, Trippier, just imagine what that would have been like. I still don't understand why we didn't go for that in the January window.

 

[romufc]

Ah yes, Trippier, just imagine what that would have been like. I still don't understand why we didn't go for that in the January window.

Its how United to business. Would rather pay 80m for Maguire but wont pay the extra 3m for a RB. Its just how we are run at the moment. Imagine having someone who can take a set piece and be a decent RB.

 

[Cassidy]

Hes doing well this season, I'd still sign a RB though because its what? 6/7 games vs his many years of being bang average? We have seen the same with Shaw

 

[choiboyx012]

He was a highly rated up and coming fullback in Portugal. Quite a few Portuguese posters said so years ago i recall. I don’t think or expect him to become world class but I always thought there was potential in him to become a very good consistent full back for us.

He’s a technically sound footballer first and foremost, which is important in the modern game and the way we (ETH) wants to play. He’s not a speed demon athletic beast, so expect that he’ll get beat by the speedy wingers every now and then. But he’s a good overall footballer who can dribble (to beat a man or out of pressure), cross, pass, get in good positions, make intelligent runs, combine with his wingers/forwards to stretch play.

I also like AWB but he’s more of a natural defender first, while Dalot is more of a footballer playing in defense if you know what I mean. I can see his role similar to Evra, who didn’t really get us stats like goals or assists, but was important to our attacking play in providing a threat on the left and stretching opponents defenses. Dalot is a better crosser and seems a more reliable shooter so I wouldn’t be surprised if he can get 10-15 goals/assists a season.

 

[TsuWave]

I don't want to seem negative but I still think he's not gonna be good enough to be a starter here. Hopefully I'm proven wrong.

Don’t feel bad, you’re not being negative. Based on the evidence available, yours is a sensible take at this point - again, Diogo Dalot has been a Manchester United player since 2018. He’s been in form since match day week 3 this season. United has played 6 league games. Diogo Dalot has been in form for 3 league games and whatever Europa fixtures happened in between. Reading the last few pages you’d think he was player of the season though.

On the other hand, he’s only 23, and this could be a turning season for him and his development. He does seem to have the right attitude, even if I’m not fully convinced on the ability just yet, and players seem to be improving under Ten Hag. We also have a more solid CB partnership and that might help both him and Malacia. Hopefully he keeps performing.

 

[Olecurls99]

Don’t feel bad, you’re not being negative. Based on the evidence available, yours is a sensible take at this point - again, Diogo Dalot has been a Manchester United player since 2018. He’s been in form since match day week 3 this season. United has played 6 league games. Diogo Dalot has been in form for 3 league games and whatever Europa fixtures happened in between. Reading the last few pages you’d think he was player of the season though.

On the other hand, he’s only 23, and this could be a turning season for him and his development. He does seem to have the right attitude, even if I’m not fully convinced on the ability just yet, and players seem to be improving under Ten Hag. We also have a more solid CB partnership and that might help both him and Malacia. Hopefully he keeps performing.

Nah he was pretty good last season too.

Stats against all other full backs in Europe last season .

Progressive passing 83%
Completed long passes 90%
Passes into final 3rd 91%
Tackles 90%
Tackles won 87%

 

[criticalanalysis]

Now, let's just get back to Dalot for a second. He has played well in spells this year. He also played 90-minutes in the defeat to Brighton (and was poor), 90-minutes in the 0-4 defeat to Brentford (which thankfully I missed) and 90-minutes in the home defeat to a rather average Sociedad sign.

In fairness, he was very good in our two best performances of the season, against Arsenal and Liverpool, albeit in a much more clearly defined 'old-school- fullback role (in those games specifically) i.e. 'get tight to the winger/wide forward nice and early, play up against them'.

Now we have posters crowing about how somehow they were 'right' that he was a great player all along...hang on a minute...have we lowered standards that far? I get that we're not the 'Man United' of old and need to be patient, I have said that myself, and so it's pointless comparing these lads with the likes of Ferdinand, Scholes, Giggs, (old) Ronaldo, Rooney, Keane etc...

However, in my opinion, we have still not fallen THAT far that a mixed bag of some good, some average, some poor performances suddenly makes a Man United player.

Let's give ETH time, let's support the players but let's not start getting carried away

He played only the first half against Real Sociedad.

As pointed out above, he came off at half time, where he was one of the better (arguably best iirc) players. Lindelof came in and we lost the game as Kubo had him on toast every time. Anyways I think there are two thoughts at play here, which can be discussed separately imo:

1) Has he or any player in the squad shown anything on a consistent basis to say 'yes he's a Utd player through and through and it's say to safe we'll fine with him'? Not really and that's sort of the end of discussion there. Many wouldn't really disagree, myself included.

That said, we can still praise, comment and/or speculate on a player's performance and potential based on what we are seeing and have seen.

2) Has Dalot shown enough base qualities and evidence that he's perhaps better than a mixed bag? Well again it's too early to judge but if I had to make a definitive statement then I would tentatively say yes, as has many others in here. The 'issue' is that you're judging him or not seeing what he has done. The examples and stats in the last page is enough evidence of that. Even your assessment of his against games Arsenal/Liverpool discredits his overall performances. He's one of our most important players when it comes to ball progression, passing etc and it's because he has the quality to do it. I'm not say it's top tier but there's some there. Enough to be optimistic about.

Check these videos - as is rudimentary with all compilations, it will make Dalot look like peak Alves and Cafu combined but if you ignore the stylised editing and EDM cinematic music, it's a fairly good representation of his best moments thus far this season. Even in the games against Brentford/Brighton, you will see he created some very good chances with his quick passing etc.

(literally first two searches on youtube)






I don't have an issue with 'let's not jump to conclusions, it's so fickle', I have issue with 'he's shown nothing to justify the recent praise/optimism' as that is too harsh. Not personal of course, just some light discussion.

Also I will add, like most on these forums, I get it. We're all Utd fans and anything post Fergie is almost PTSD inducing, it's the hope (and disappointment) that gets you so I understand how weathered it is to continuously go through this boom, bust cycle.

 

[tenpoless]

When he does the pulse checking celebration he was referring to AWB ManUnited career as it obviously has been dead for a while now.

 

[FootyGirl88]

When he does the pulse checking celebration he was referring to AWB ManUnited career as it obviously has been dead for a while now.

 

[Grande]

As pointed out above, he came off at half time, where he was one of the better (arguably best iirc) players. Lindelof came in and we lost the game as Kubo had him on toast every time. Anyways I think there are two thoughts at play here, which can be discussed separately imo:

1) Has he or any player in the squad shown anything on a consistent basis to say 'yes he's a Utd player through and through and it's say to safe we'll fine with him'? Not really and that's sort of the end of discussion there. Many wouldn't really disagree, myself included.

That said, we can still praise, comment and/or speculate on a player's performance and potential based on what we are seeing and have seen.

2) Has Dalot shown enough base qualities and evidence that he's perhaps better than a mixed bag? Well again it's too early to judge but if I had to make a definitive statement then I would tentatively say yes, as has many others in here. The 'issue' is that you're judging him or not seeing what he has done. The examples and stats in the last page is enough evidence of that. Even your assessment of his against games Arsenal/Liverpool discredits his overall performances. He's one of our most important players when it comes to ball progression, passing etc and it's because he has the quality to do it. I'm not say it's top tier but there's some there. Enough to be optimistic about.

Check these videos - as is rudimentary with all compilations, it will make Dalot look like peak Alves and Cafu combined but if you ignore the stylised editing and EDM cinematic music, it's a fairly good representation of his best moments thus far this season. Even in the games against Brentford/Brighton, you will see he created some very good chances with his quick passing etc.

(literally first two searches on youtube)






I don't have an issue with 'let's not jump to conclusions, it's so fickle', I have issue with 'he's shown nothing to justify the recent praise/optimism' as that is too harsh. Not personal of course, just some light discussion.

Also I will add, like most on these forums, I get it. We're all Utd fans and anything post Fergie is almost PTSD inducing, it's the hope (and disappointment) that gets you so I understand how weathered it is to continuously go through this boom, bust cycle.

This makes a lot of sense.