What do we still need? Aka The never ending story

[devilish]

I'm all for clearing the decks but much of what we'd ideally like to do seems incredibly unlikely. Casemiro has a year left on his deal and seems like he has no intention of leaving. No one is going to pay us for Mason Mount or Luke Shaw and I doubt either will be keen to move on or have many offers. Maguire is signed on for another year.

Sancho is gone and Rashford/Anthony/Malacia will almost certainly go to. Lindelof/Erikson/Evans all gone as well.

That leaves the squad with 1 left winger, Garnacho who is already not close to good enough. Amad is excellent but he can't be our only option on right wing especially after this latest injury. It's simply not possible to go into next season with 1 winger for each side.

In an ideal world we'd have no financial restrictions and could carryout a 10+ player squad transformation but like I said in the previous post with limited funds you simply have to prioritise.

Shaw and Mount aren't leaving. Casemiro might if the deal is done right. Maybe we can agree a deal were we subsidize part of his salary if he leaves to another club. Let's not forget that most Brazilians want to play in Brazil at one point of their career. I am also aware that our budget won't be huge as well. That doesn't mean that we can't sustain a huge staff turnover either.

a- we need to have people at the club whose capable to sell quickly and for decent fees. That's something United had ignored for decades, long before we became shit. Those old enough remember how we've sold proven English internationals like Phil Neville and Nicky Butt for next to nothing to clubs who hate our guts. Anyway if we can do that particularly around homegrown players then the budget will increase substantially. That's what Chelsea had been doing after all

b- We need to be able to unearth hidden gems that suits the EPL. TBF we're already doing that with the likes of Leon, Kone and possibly Juan Gimenez. All players are young, they wouldn't cost us a fortune, will probably be squad players next season particularly if we're out of Europe and have the physicality to thrive in the EPL. Other players we should look at are the likes of Retegui (42m clause), Nice's top scorer and assist man Guessand etc. The free transfer market/players heading towards the end of their contract/players with a low minimum fee clause could do the trick. We simply can't turn our noses down to these players as we did with the Thuram brothers and Guirassy all of whom would walk into our first team with ease. Loans can help as well.

c- We can't keep being so patient with players. If after few months there's no progress whatsoever or an unjustified decline then that player should be sold, no if, no buts. That's the only way we can sell players for a reasonable fee therefore recoup most if not all of the fee invested. I was particularly annoyed with Bruno's contract renewal. First of all he wasn't showing the goods to deserves a better contract, secondly he was still in the middle of a long contract and finally we shouldn't respond well to threats. I do wonder if us crumbling under that sort of pressure persuaded Mainoo to ask for silly money.

Ultimately its not uncommon for a club to sign 9-10 players. Inter, Napoli and Juve did it last summer while Bayern came close (7)

 

[TRUE NUMBER 9]

Greenwood looks increasingly likely to move on from Marseilles, which will give United a nice boost to the summer war chest (reportedly cca €15-20m)

Add that to the Sancho cash and without any transfer business, United would already have enough to bring somebody in.

Should Rashford and / or Antony go on a permanent deal, that makes another nice addition possible.

Then, decision time for the likes of Garnacho and / or Mainoo. Either one would provide a significant boost to the coffers.

Onana, de Ligt, Dalot, Martinez, Hojlund...a few others too, arguably, could be available.

It will not be fixed in one window and realistically, the likes of Casemiro, Shaw & Mount are here to stay. However, if a few things click into place, there will be money available to add several decent much needed signings.

 

[Tallis]

Greenwood looks increasingly likely to move on from Marseilles, which will give United a nice boost to the summer war chest (reportedly cca €15-20m)

Add that to the Sancho cash and without any transfer business, United would already have enough to bring somebody in.

Should Rashford and / or Antony go on a permanent deal, that makes another nice addition possible.

Then, decision time for the likes of Garnacho and / or Mainoo. Either one would provide a significant boost to the coffers.

Onana, de Ligt, Dalot, Martinez, Hojlund...a few others too, arguably, could be available.

It will not be fixed in one window and realistically, the likes of Casemiro, Shaw & Mount are here to stay. However, if a few things click into place, there will be money available to add several decent much needed signings.

Which are the rumoured / likely clubs for Greenwood just out of interest ?

 

[DannyCAFC]

Which are the rumoured / likely clubs for Greenwood just out of interest ?

PSG and Atletico from what I've seen so far.

 

[TRUE NUMBER 9]

Which are the rumoured / likely clubs for Greenwood just out of interest ?

As Danny said above, PSG & Atletico, with Juventus also reportedly in the mix. He has had an excellent season with Marseilles and looks likely to be heading out in a big money move. United have a 50% profit from any sell on written into the deal, so will receive half of anything over the €25m or so that they initially received from Marseilles.

 

[Tallis]

Cheers, both. Could be a nice 20m profit.

 

[FlawlessVictory88]

Shaw and Mount aren't leaving. Casemiro might if the deal is done right. Maybe we can agree a deal were we subsidize part of his salary if he leaves to another club. Let's not forget that most Brazilians want to play in Brazil at one point of their career. I am also aware that our budget won't be huge as well. That doesn't mean that we can't sustain a huge staff turnover either.

a- we need to have people at the club whose capable to sell quickly and for decent fees. That's something United had ignored for decades, long before we became shit. Those old enough remember how we've sold proven English internationals like Phil Neville and Nicky Butt for next to nothing to clubs who hate our guts. Anyway if we can do that particularly around homegrown players then the budget will increase substantially. That's what Chelsea had been doing after all

b- We need to be able to unearth hidden gems that suits the EPL. TBF we're already doing that with the likes of Leon, Kone and possibly Juan Gimenez. All players are young, they wouldn't cost us a fortune, will probably be squad players next season particularly if we're out of Europe and have the physicality to thrive in the EPL. Other players we should look at are the likes of Retegui (42m clause), Nice's top scorer and assist man Guessand etc. The free transfer market/players heading towards the end of their contract/players with a low minimum fee clause could do the trick. We simply can't turn our noses down to these players as we did with the Thuram brothers and Guirassy all of whom would walk into our first team with ease. Loans can help as well.

c- We can't keep being so patient with players. If after few months there's no progress whatsoever or an unjustified decline then that player should be sold, no if, no buts. That's the only way we can sell players for a reasonable fee therefore recoup most if not all of the fee invested. I was particularly annoyed with Bruno's contract renewal. First of all he wasn't showing the goods to deserves a better contract, secondly he was still in the middle of a long contract and finally we shouldn't respond well to threats. I do wonder if us crumbling under that sort of pressure persuaded Mainoo to ask for silly money.

Ultimately its not uncommon for a club to sign 9-10 players. Inter, Napoli and Juve did it last summer while Bayern came close (7)

I don't disagree with almost any of this. My issue is with where you want to spend the money.

Bringing in a striker and a box to box midfielder into a side which can't create chances and has literally one fit winger on the books whose also performing to the level of a championship player won't improve the side.

 

[devilish]

I don't disagree with almost any of this. My issue is with where you want to spend the money.

Bringing in a striker and a box to box midfielder into a side which can't create chances and has literally one fit winger on the books whose also performing to the level of a championship player won't improve the side.

I did mention Dibling and Guessand. Then we'll have Amad and Bruno.

 

[Desert Eagle]

I don't disagree with almost any of this. My issue is with where you want to spend the money.

Bringing in a striker and a box to box midfielder into a side which can't create chances and has literally one fit winger on the books whose also performing to the level of a championship player won't improve the side.

But Amorim doesn't really play wingers, I'm curious as to your logic though, to me adding a good striker and a good midfielder would obviously help us create more chances so I'm curious as to why you think otherwise.

 

[FlawlessVictory88]

I did mention Dibling and Guessand. Then we'll have Amad and Bruno.

Bruno isn't a winger is any sense. Amad is out for months with ankle ligament damage.

Dibling is the type of signing you make when you have a very good team and want to buy a prospect to see how he develops, not someone to join United and make a difference now.

I think Guessand is a good player, but not on the level we need. In January my 3 picks for left 10 where Cunha/Marmosh/Kvat. The latter two have gone to PSG and City so Cunha is the obvious signing here.

But Amorim doesn't really play wingers, I'm curious as to your logic though, to me adding a good striker and a good midfielder would obviously help us create more chances so I'm curious as to why you think otherwise.

United rank 19th in the premier league for chances created from take ons, this is an appalling number when you see how incredibly valuable having wide players capable of beating opponents 1v1 is.

Gyokeres is playing in a Sporting team with the two best creators in Portugal on his side, this is the equivalent of a striker in La Liga lining up with Vinicius on one wing and Yamal on the other, to think he's going to move from a team whose #1 in these areas to a team whose #19 and replicate the same form is crazy. Oshimen played with Kvat when he was an Napoli and it'll be the same for any striker unless you can find someone whose Suarez esque and can start taking on lots of defenders themself.

United went from being an average team in this department with Sancho/Rashford/Anthony to a relegation level team for creative output.

No team in the last 25 years has ever won the Champions League without at least 1 player capable of 2+ dribbles per game. Madrid currently have 3 with Vini/Mbappe/Rodrygo (not counting Endrick or Arda) they used to have 3 with Ronaldo/Bale/Benzema- Liverpool had it with Salah/Mane/Firmino- Bayern with Ribery/Robben/Costa/Coman/Sane etc etc
The most dominant side for attacking metrics in that time period was Barca with Messi/Neymar/Suarez.

You simply cannot have a high level attack without these players and United have none, Amad is on the cusp though.

The priority for United has to be wingers with this capability. I'm delighted to see us linked with Doue from PSG, he'd actually be my #1 choice but don't think it's very likely. Cunha/Kevin from Shaktar and a few others would help us immensely.

It's not just the job of forwards of course this United team struggles because we get basically zero attacking output from our full back options although Dorgu will help here. It's also why I'd like to see us sign Ait Nouri from wolves.

 

[Desert Eagle]

Bruno isn't a winger is any sense. Amad is out for months with ankle ligament damage.

Dibling is the type of signing you make when you have a very good team and want to buy a prospect to see how he develops, not someone to join United and make a difference now.

I think Guessand is a good player, but not on the level we need. In January my 3 picks for left 10 where Cunha/Marmosh/Kvat. The latter two have gone to PSG and City so Cunha is the obvious signing here.

United rank 19th in the premier league for chances created from take ons, this is an appalling number when you see how incredibly valuable having wide players capable of beating opponents 1v1 is.

Gyokeres is playing in a Sporting team with the two best creators in Portugal on his side, this is the equivalent of a striker in La Liga lining up with Vinicius on one wing and Yamal on the other, to think he's going to move from a team whose #1 in these areas to a team whose #19 and replicate the same form is crazy. Oshimen played with Kvat when he was an Napoli and it'll be the same for any striker unless you can find someone whose Suarez esque and can start taking on lots of defenders themself.

United went from being an average team in this department with Sancho/Rashford/Anthony to a relegation level team for creative output.

No team in the last 25 years has ever won the Champions League without at least 1 player capable of 2+ dribbles per game. Madrid currently have 3 with Vini/Mbappe/Rodrygo (not counting Endrick or Arda) they used to have 3 with Ronaldo/Bale/Benzema- Liverpool had it with Salah/Mane/Firmino- Bayern with Ribery/Robben/Costa/Coman/Sane etc etc
The most dominant side for attacking metrics in that time period was Barca with Messi/Neymar/Suarez.

You simply cannot have a high level attack without these players and United have none, Amad is on the cusp though.

The priority for United has to be wingers with this capability. I'm delighted to see us linked with Doue from PSG, he'd actually be my #1 choice but don't think it's very likely. Cunha/Kevin from Shaktar and a few others would help us immensely.

It's not just the job of forwards of course this United team struggles because we get basically zero attacking output from our full back options although Dorgu will help here. It's also why I'd like to see us sign Ait Nouri from wolves.

I agree with you point about needing players who are able to beat their man and create better than the ones we have but I think we can find midfielders and strikers with that profile. You do make a good argument that a good number 10 might make more of a difference than the other two positions though.

 

[AdNani]

I think we'll get rid of Dalot, Rashford, Casemiro and probably Garnacho and Hojlund

Bring in

Quenda
Ederson
Dibling
Kovar

Id like to see us sign someone like Goncalo Ramos, think hes the right style for Amorim and is young

 

[Hammondo]

I agree with you point about needing players who are able to beat their man and create better than the ones we have but I think we can find midfielders and strikers with that profile. You do make a good argument that a good number 10 might make more of a difference than the other two positions though.

Pretty much, our 10s should be those type of players.

 

[croadyman]

I think we'll get rid of Dalot, Rashford, Casemiro and probably Garnacho and Hojlund

Bring in

Quenda
Ederson
Dibling
Kovar

Id like to see us sign someone like Goncalo Ramos, think hes the right style for Amorim and is young

Can't see PSG letting him go

 

[bgoodall]

Have we been linked with anyone besides Quenda? Usually we’re linked with everyone. This year it’s outgoing player gossip only. The media ABUs are loving this.

 

[TRUE NUMBER 9]

Cunha is a good player, PL proven and appears a good fit for what United need in the final third. I will take the odd bad reaction with the skill set he brings. Those who remember Keane and Cantona, two absolute United legends, know that they had their moments when they lost it. Not saying that Cunha would become such a great player as those two but the good far outweighs the bad in my opinion. Give me the skill and the passion over the lackluster displays of recent years.

 

[aeh1991]

Cunha is a good player, PL proven and appears a good fit for what United need in the final third. I will take the odd bad reaction with the skill set he brings. Those who remember Keane and Cantona, two absolute United legends, know that they had their moments when they lost it. Not saying that Cunha would become such a great player as those two but the good far outweighs the bad in my opinion. Give me the skill and the passion over the lackluster displays of recent years.

...until he gets sent off in a FA cup final and we lose. Times have changed and with VAR and stuff it's close to impossible to have these types of characters without suffering. I wouldn't spend 60m on such a player.

 

[red_de_pologne]

Have we been linked with anyone besides Quenda? Usually we’re linked with everyone. This year it’s outgoing player gossip only. The media ABUs are loving this.

Mateta? Don't worry once we'r out of Europa there won't be end to Amorim out and transfer gossip articles, as there wont be anything else to write about United

 

[Tallis]

Mateta - They want 40. Try to get for 30m.
Cunha - Release clause is 60. Try to get him for 50m
Cherki - 20m
Ait Nouri - 35m
Mateus Fernandes -30m
Ederson - 60m

Spend: 225m - 245m


------------Maz (Dalot / Gimenez)----------------De Ligt (Maguire)-----------------Yoro (Heaven / Licha)---------------------------------


----Dorgu (Dalot / Kamason)------Ugarte (Collyer / Kone) -----------Ederson (M. Fernandes)--------------------Ait Nouri (Amass / Leon)


-------------------------Bruno (Amad / Cherki)---------------------------------------------------------Cunha (Bruno)-------------------------------------------


----------------------------------------------------------Mateta (Zirkzee / Chido)---------------------------------------------------------------------------



I assume Rash (30m), Sancho, (25m), Antony (25m), Malacia (10m), Mainoo (50m), Garnacho (50m) are sold. Rasmus, Mount and Shaw are loaned to save wages / marked for exit next summer.

 

[AdNani]

Can't see PSG letting him go

He's averaging a goal every 96 minutes but is he regularly starting?

Always thought he was a player we should go for

 

[Gabriel Djemba-Bebe]

...until he gets sent off in a FA cup final and we lose. Times have changed and with VAR and stuff it's close to impossible to have these types of characters without suffering. I wouldn't spend 60m on such a player.

Agreed. We need to stay well clear of Cunha. He's hardly some generational talent that's worth taking a risk on either.

 

[Olecurls99]

Onana - Loan/Sell
Bayindir - Keep
Heaton - Release
Bring back Dave

Mazraoui - Keep
Yoro - Keep
De Ligt - Keep
Maguire - Keep
Heaven - Keep
Shaw - Keep
Martinez- Keep
Lindelof - Release
Evans - Release

Dalot - Keep
Dorgu - Keep
Amad - Keep
Malacia - Loan/Sell

Ugarte - Keep
Casemiro - Keep
Collyer - Keep
Bruno - Keep

Mount - Keep
Mainoo - Keep
Garnacho - Keep
Zirkzee - Keep
Antony - Loan/Sell
Rashford - Loan/Sell
Eriksen - Keep
Buy Mitoma - Such a clever dangerous player

Hojlund - Loan/Sell
Buy or Loan a striker
Chido

 

[Great turn by Macedaaa]

Agreed. We need to stay well clear of Cunha. He's hardly some generational talent that's worth taking a risk on either.

Remember there being similar things said about Mane when LGV was linked with him. Rather we started going for Premier league proven. Serie A is just not the standard it was in the 90s/00s. I think Cunha, Mbuemo, Eze, Mitoma are the sort of players we should be looking at.

 

[Gabriel Djemba-Bebe]

Remember there being similar things said about Mane when LGV was linked with him. Rather we started going for Premier league proven. Serie A is just not the standard it was in the 90s/00s. I think Cunha, Mbuemo, Eze, Mitoma are the sort of players we should be looking at.

Mane was undoubtedly quality at Southampton and, looking at his suspension history, he never received a red card whilst playing for them, so that doesn't seem like a fair comparison to Cunha. I agree with Mitoma being the calibre of player we should be looking at, assuming his injury issues from last season are well behind him.

 

[Great turn by Macedaaa]

Mane was undoubtedly quality at Southampton and, looking at his suspension history, he never received a red card whilst playing for them, so that doesn't seem like a fair comparison to Cunha. I agree with Mitoma being the calibre of player we should be looking at, assuming his injury issues from last season are well behind him.

Think I posted a few season ago Mitoma and Olise were my favourite wingers we were linked with. Both would of been a major upgrade on what we had.

I was at the Brighton game both him and Minteh absolutely destroyed us that day. Both are great example of how good Brightons scouting network is. They reminded me of the classic Ferguson wingers we had in the 90s . Eze while not an out and out winger. Could be a good fit especially in Rubens system with the more narrow 10s.

 

[aeh1991]

Mane was undoubtedly quality at Southampton and, looking at his suspension history, he never received a red card whilst playing for them, so that doesn't seem like a fair comparison to Cunha. I agree with Mitoma being the calibre of player we should be looking at, assuming his injury issues from last season are well behind him.

Nah Mitoma is not the right player. In our system he could only play as a LWB and we have just bought Dorgu. Also, would cost too much for a 28 year old whose game is so reliant on speed.

 

[chris123]

We should be looking for a Florian Wirtz or Morgan Gibbs-White type for that LW/no. 10 spot. Not sure how many of those are out there, or at least ones that are more affordable than those two.

 

[Olecurls99]

Nah Mitoma is not the right player. In our system he could only play as a LWB and we have just bought Dorgu. Also, would cost too much for a 28 year old whose game is so reliant on speed.

Disagree. He is so clever and such a brilliant runner with the ball that he would be a huge game changer for us. We would be so much better against the low block with Mitoma as the left 10.

 

[ColvaleGoa]

If Mount doesn't break like a twig , we might not need a 2nd 10.

A fit mount will thrive in Amorims system. But the guy has had voodoo done on him by Pogba's brother.

 

[Olecurls99]

The main thing we need to focus on is who can contribute against the low block. Who has attributes that would help break down packed boxes and who doesn't? That is the main problem we have and should be our focus when it comes to squad assessment and recruitment.

Amad has huge potential. Beats men, plays head up somewhat and definitely scares defenders.

Mainoo has shown that he can produce magic around the box. Needs to be given a season at 10 to figure out the position and use his vision and ball carrying skills. Could definitely be a scary player there.

Zirkzee could be the, for want of a better word, wall that the likes of Mainoo and Amad could use to beat men. That wall then needs to shift himself into the box.

Dorgu looks like he has the potential to carry, beat men and show composure when in the box.

Garnacho has for the most part looked a bit headless but time is on his side and there have been promising signs lately that he's learning.

Mount has bags of energy and creativity and would be very useful if he ever got some luck with fitness.

Dalot has energy and speed and can be a decent overlap wing back. He's not the most composed but neither was Kyle Walker or for that matter Robertson.

Bruno is a creative genius. So composed around the box and if the likes of Mount, Mainoo, Dorgu, Dalot, Zirkzee and Amad get going will revel in getting on the end of chances from midfield and using his composure to create.

Mazraoui as a wing back or as an attacking centre back is hugely gifted to support attacks. Whether it's winning balls back or making sound decisions.

Ugarte like Mazraoui will be great at winning the ball back and keeping the attack going. Collyer looks like he has that type of profile too.

De Ligt the same as Ugarte from centre back.

Yoro and Heaven look very competent on the ball and have great recovery pace.

Martinez if he recovers has shown how useful he can be as an attacking centre half.

Obviously we haven't looked good with these players so far but we have been decimated with injuries, a lot of them will look much better once they get used to the country, league and club, and Amorim has not had much time with them at all and again has rarely had the same 11 game to game.

Give it time and we'll start to click. If I could have one player it would be Mitoma to relieve pressure with his dribbling and to unlock packed defenses.

 

[Beans]

IMHO you need players who are exceptional on the ball. That extra moment almost your our players need to control the ball slows everything down, allowing the defense to close down whatever space your passing created.

On defense you back off way too often, while other teams jump on your players when they get the ball, which all too often means a backwards pass.

United end up having to play counter attacking football because they can't keep the ball or play through defenses with passing.

If you guys wanted to counter attack you could have kept Ole. But his downfall was trying to play possession football, United don't have the players for it.

 

[Bojan Djordjic]

We should be looking for a Florian Wirtz or Morgan Gibbs-White type for that LW/no. 10 spot. Not sure how many of those are out there, or at least ones that are more affordable than those two.

Cherki is the obvious one whose output is elite and is a genuine bargain relative to his talent.

 

[Shaneo2121]

Mateta - They want 40. Try to get for 30m.
Cunha - Release clause is 60. Try to get him for 50m
Cherki - 20m
Ait Nouri - 35m
Mateus Fernandes -30m
Ederson - 60m

Spend: 225m - 245m


------------Maz (Dalot / Gimenez)----------------De Ligt (Maguire)-----------------Yoro (Heaven / Licha)---------------------------------


----Dorgu (Dalot / Kamason)------Ugarte (Collyer / Kone) -----------Ederson (M. Fernandes)--------------------Ait Nouri (Amass / Leon)


-------------------------Bruno (Amad / Cherki)---------------------------------------------------------Cunha (Bruno)-------------------------------------------


----------------------------------------------------------Mateta (Zirkzee / Chido)---------------------------------------------------------------------------



I assume Rash (30m), Sancho, (25m), Antony (25m), Malacia (10m), Mainoo (50m), Garnacho (50m) are sold. Rasmus, Mount and Shaw are loaned to save wages / marked for exit next summer.

I doubt we'll be spending over £200 million this number from everything we are hearing.

Also, if we are selling/loaning 6 homegrown players, we would need to be signing some homegrown replacements which can be extra expensive.