What do we still need? Aka The never ending story

Wow, new Top Red has entered the building. Enjoy Spain when you don’t go and come back on here to explain another shite performance. What a guy!

Top red? Nope. Never claimed to be. Far bigger and more dedicated fans I know than me. No doubt there will be plenty on here that are too. But I’ll be there son. As I was in Istanbul earlier on in the season.
Bit weird it’s soo much of a shock to you that fans actually go to games, that you can’t even believe I am going.
Don’t judge other fans by your standards because you can’t be bothered chap.

Nice avoidance of my other points to.
 
I don’t think you understand that managers can come in and change tactics and can be successful. When Pep joined everyone was smugly claiming he couldn’t play his style… he did. He’s dominated after a dodgy start. He spent £150million on defenders and signed a new keeper in his first transfer window. Ruben hasn’t been able to do anything like that.

This formation you claim will never work… Is this not the same formation that’s beaten Arsenal, Spurs and City in Europe? When he had better players? Yes. Yes it is.

I’m willing to meet you in San Sebastián on Thursday for a couple of pints to discuss this further? Or are you not going??

:lol:

Embarrassing.
 
It is concerning that there's no clear consent on what is needed going forward. Here's my two cents:

GK- Onana* (Bayindir*, Heaton*)
RB- Mazraoui (Dalot)
CB- De Ligt (Yoro, Lindelof*)
CB- Martinez (Maguire, Evans*)
LB- Dorgu (Shaw*)
DM- Ugarte (Casemiro*)
MM- Mainoo (Eriksen*)
AM- Bruno (Mount*)
RW- Amad
CF- Hojlund* (Zirkzee*)
LW- Garnacho

This is United's current first squad. The players with an asterisk are either on their last year of contract, not good enough, constantly injured or too old. Players from the youth team (Heaven, Collyer, Obi) aren't included. Priority should be the positions with either no players unmarked, or not two players in the same position. So, GK and every forward spot. If we switch to Amorim's 3-4-3 the situation should change sligthly.
 
The idea of Xavi, another manager who the squad is completely unsuited to, as the solution to our problems is just crazy. We need a lot of new players with a completely different profile and it is going to take multiple summer windows to accomplish. How quickly/if it ever happens is going to be hugely dependent on how well we recruit.

Amorim most likely isn’t going to be here in 12 months time but having gone down this path of a reset it is going to take time and patience.
Yeah exactly. This exact poster is angry and throws bits around hoping that something sticks. It is fine to distrust Amorim, but lets not act as if theres a borderline scientific reason for it that could be rectified with this name or that name. Ole wars all over again and apparently I am now on the other side - even though I only state that the guy is probably only a fraction of the issue that we have in front of our eyes now. This makes me his supporter apparently... Nuts. Tribalism at full flow
 
Top red? Nope. Never claimed to be. Far bigger and more dedicated fans I know than me. No doubt there will be plenty on here that are too. But I’ll be there son. As I was in Istanbul earlier on in the season.
Bit weird it’s soo much of a shock to you that fans actually go to games, that you can’t even believe I am going.
Don’t judge other fans by your standards because you can’t be bothered chap.

Nice avoidance of my other points to.
You need to apply for top away supporters badge, son/chap. Maybe you can list all your away day travels and you might get promoted early on the Caf?
 
It is concerning that there's no clear consent on what is needed going forward. Here's my two cents:

GK- Onana* (Bayindir*, Heaton*)
RB- Mazraoui (Dalot)
CB- De Ligt (Yoro, Lindelof*)
CB- Martinez (Maguire, Evans*)
LB- Dorgu (Shaw*)
DM- Ugarte (Casemiro*)
MM- Mainoo (Eriksen*)
AM- Bruno (Mount*)
RW- Amad
CF- Hojlund* (Zirkzee*)
LW- Garnacho

This is United's current first squad. The players with an asterisk are either on their last year of contract, not good enough, constantly injured or too old. Players from the youth team (Heaven, Collyer, Obi) aren't included. Priority should be the positions with either no players unmarked, or not two players in the same position. So, GK and every forward spot. If we switch to Amorim's 3-4-3 the situation should change sligthly.

If we're going to play with a 3-4-3 next season, the situation is more dire than you're suggesting. I like Mazraoui but he's not a proper wingback; Martinez is too injury-prone and can't be counted on to be first choice anymore; Mainoo is showing some signs of being too injury-prone as well and a kid that young should never have been called on to be first choice to begin with; Garnacho is a winger at heart and not suited to playing as one of the 10s in Amorim's system.

.....................................NEW.......................................
....................................................................................
...............Bruno..............................Amad...................
....................................................................................
....................................................................................
Dorgu..................................................................NEW
......................Ugarte.............NEW..............................
.....................................................................................
.....................................................................................
..........NEW..................de Ligt...............Maz...............
.....................................................................................
.....................................................................................
......................................NEW.......................................

Five new players in the first eleven, plus a slew of new backups, is what's needed.
 
It is concerning that there's no clear consent on what is needed going forward. Here's my two cents:

GK- Onana* (Bayindir*, Heaton*)
RB- Mazraoui (Dalot)
CB- De Ligt (Yoro, Lindelof*)
CB- Martinez (Maguire, Evans*)
LB- Dorgu (Shaw*)
DM- Ugarte (Casemiro*)
MM- Mainoo (Eriksen*)
AM- Bruno (Mount*)
RW- Amad
CF- Hojlund* (Zirkzee*)
LW- Garnacho

This is United's current first squad. The players with an asterisk are either on their last year of contract, not good enough, constantly injured or too old. Players from the youth team (Heaven, Collyer, Obi) aren't included. Priority should be the positions with either no players unmarked, or not two players in the same position. So, GK and every forward spot. If we switch to Amorim's 3-4-3 the situation should change sligthly.
No asterisk for Martinez, Maguire and Dalot is absurd.
I’m not sure what your ambition is when you say ‘not good enough’… like for what? At first I assumed you meant not good enough to win the league but then I saw you left our entire back 4 and now I have no idea what you meant ...
 
If the budget allows Cunha, Mbuemo, Osimhen .
Realistically Cherki, Dibling , David
 
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I'm not sure Amorim is gonna be manager next season

Assuming Amad can give you 10-15 non-penalty goals, you need in order a world class forward, a world class wingback, and an elite midfielder, either an organizer type or a two-way defender/ball progressor. A Rodri type would be ideal(might we interest you in Tchouameni?), but you could also do with either a Vieira/Keane type or a Kroos type

These are the priorities, you need those to compete for top 4 in the immediate. The rest(more elite forwards, another wingback, a goalkeeper, better bench options) can come later
 
No asterisk for Martinez, Maguire and Dalot is absurd.
I’m not sure what your ambition is when you say ‘not good enough’… like for what? At first I assumed you meant not good enough to win the league but then I saw you left our entire back 4 and now I have no idea what you meant ...

I stand corrected as Martinez should have an asterisk because of his constant injuries.

In the "not good enough" category I was thinking about the spot they occupy in this particular squad order. For example Maguire and Dalot are (IMO) not good enough to be starters but good enough to be subs, which is the spot I assigned them.
 
United can't afford finished or near finished products. They doesn't wouldn't want to stay out of CL on a regular basis as we do, we can't afford the salaries, there's too many positions we need to strengthen and we're half a decade away from winning the title which means that a 27 year old would be 32 by the time we will be competing. Hence we're going for young players who will grow with us and with one another, who will build a relationship with one another thus increase our tempo and efficiency.

We need to have a close look to the likes of Emegha, Guessand, Nypan, Dibling, Lamine Camara, Stiller etc.
 
Surely the manager has to be given at least one summer window to start building his own team. United are in no position to sack Amorim and start all over again. If he doesn't take at least 2 players from Sporting I'd be surprised.
 
Aleksandro Ribeiro looked very good again tonight. Didn't give Guirassy or Gittens a sniff.

Looks like a better player than Martinez even before his injury.
 
United can't afford finished or near finished products. They doesn't wouldn't want to stay out of CL on a regular basis as we do, we can't afford the salaries, there's too many positions we need to strengthen and we're half a decade away from winning the title which means that a 27 year old would be 32 by the time we will be competing. Hence we're going for young players who will grow with us and with one another, who will build a relationship with one another thus increase our tempo and efficiency.

We need to have a close look to the likes of Emegha, Guessand, Nypan, Dibling, Lamine Camara, Stiller etc.
On the other hand if we sign a bunch of teenagers, we'll be competing for top 15 for the next 10 years under 5 different managers. To build a proper squad going forward, we need instant success (CL qualification). The only way to achieve that is to do clever transfers of players in their primes (22-25, not almost done players like Casemiro or Mount). Think of it as signing a lot of Bruno's by the time he joined us. Players from weaker leagues who want to challenge themselves in the PL.
 
On the other hand if we sign a bunch of teenagers, we'll be competing for top 15 for the next 10 years under 5 different managers. To build a proper squad going forward, we need instant success (CL qualification). The only way to achieve that is to do clever transfers of players in their primes (22-25, not almost done players like Casemiro or Mount). Think of it as signing a lot of Bruno's by the time he joined us. Players from weaker leagues who want to challenge themselves in the PL.
Easier said than done, Bruno’s are a rarity.
 
On the other hand if we sign a bunch of teenagers, we'll be competing for top 15 for the next 10 years under 5 different managers. To build a proper squad going forward, we need instant success (CL qualification). The only way to achieve that is to do clever transfers of players in their primes (22-25, not almost done players like Casemiro or Mount). Think of it as signing a lot of Bruno's by the time he joined us. Players from weaker leagues who want to challenge themselves in the PL.

Maguire is experienced but put him in a high line and anyone could ridicule him with enough pace. Onana is experienced as well yet he can't save shit. Bruno is experienced yet he runs in the pitch like a Husky puppy on a sugar rush. Rashford on the other hand hates running while Shaw has been injured for most of his life and yet he's yet to learn the basics like for example don't make a video ridiculing single mothers on benefits when he's pretty much on benefits himself. So you see, experience is a bit overrated. Give me a 22 year old Scholes, an 18 year old Giggs, an 18 year old Buffon or an 18 year old Maldini and they'll do way better then these tripe

Regarding transfers, Brighton went from 16th (and a history at being at the bottom of the table) to 9th with transfers whose average age was 21. Then they went 6th with transfers whose average age was 20 and had stuck to that formula ever since. The difference here is that we're not Brighton. We can retain our Caicedos and our Cucurellas thus we can build on our success.

That doesn't mean that we won't sign older players yet that must become a rarity and it must be done with the correct mindset, with the right players in mind and under the right circumstances.
 
Maguire is experienced but put him in a high line and anyone could ridicule him with enough pace. Onana is experienced as well yet he can't save shit. Bruno is experienced yet he runs in the pitch like a Husky puppy on a sugar rush. Rashford on the other hand hates running while Shaw has been injured for most of his life and yet he's yet to learn the basics like for example don't make a video ridiculing single mothers on benefits when he's pretty much on benefits himself. So you see, experience is a bit overrated. Give me a 22 year old Scholes, an 18 year old Giggs, an 18 year old Buffon or an 18 year old Maldini and they'll do way better then these tripe

Regarding transfers, Brighton went from 16th (and a history at being at the bottom of the table) to 9th with transfers whose average age was 21. Then they went 6th with transfers whose average age was 20 and had stuck to that formula ever since. The difference here is that we're not Brighton. We can retain our Caicedos and our Cucurellas thus we can build on our success.

That doesn't mean that we won't sign older players yet that must become a rarity and it must be done with the correct mindset, with the right players in mind and under the right circumstances.
Playing for United requires one thing that other clubs don't need: being able to resist media interest and the huge pressure for playing at a top club (that has been underperforming for years). Players like Hojlund got mentally broken after two seasons. Teenagers are very sensitive and pressure can affect their performances. At Brighton you are expected to achieve top 10 at best. At United you are expected to do wonders. That's why we at least need some players who have already played a few seasons on top level. If we only sign players under 20, we will end up in table midfield forever. Of course it's difficult to find the next Bruno's, but the likes of Ugarte, Mazraoui, De Ligt have all been arguably good signings (compared to past ones) and are all in their mid 20s.
 
Playing for United requires one thing that other clubs don't need: being able to resist media interest and the huge pressure for playing at a top club (that has been underperforming for years). Players like Hojlund got mentally broken after two seasons. Teenagers are very sensitive and pressure can affect their performances. At Brighton you are expected to achieve top 10 at best. At United you are expected to do wonders. That's why we at least need some players who have already played a few seasons on top level. If we only sign players under 20, we will end up in table midfield forever. Of course it's difficult to find the next Bruno's, but the likes of Ugarte, Mazraoui, De Ligt have all been arguably good signings (compared to past ones) and are all in their mid 20s.
This is overrated as well. Yes united is a big club and as a big club we get scrutiny and attention. Yet we were q big club under Sir Alex as well. Real Madrid are bigger then us, yet, they don't attract half our attention

So what's the issue here? The issue is that United under the Glazers search for attention. We feed on it for clicks like fleas feed out of crap. That's not say it but Woodward. When he was CEO he used to present that data to potential sponsors..You only have to notice how many interviews Amorim makes every month. It's beyond ridiculous.

So to return to success we need to act like a proper football club again. That means less attention, less players who live on attention and we put the media on line. Gaz would never dare acting like a football manager on telly if Sir Alex was still our manager
 
This is overrated as well. Yes united is a big club and as a big club we get scrutiny and attention. Yet we were q big club under Sir Alex as well. Real Madrid are bigger then us, yet, they don't attract half our attention

So what's the issue here? The issue is that United under the Glazers search for attention. We feed on it for clicks like fleas feed out of crap. That's not say it but Woodward. When he was CEO he used to present that data to potential sponsors..You only have to notice how many interviews Amorim makes every month. It's beyond ridiculous.

So to return to success we need to act like a proper football club again. That means less attention, less players who live on attention and we put the media on line. Gaz would never dare acting like a football manager on telly if Sir Alex was still our manager
You didn't get my point. I just said that young players couldn't handle the pressure, regardless of what the media say. It's just huge to play for this club and just based on this caf, the expectations from the fans are immense. Not to speak of the stupid social media comments. Zirkzee got booed for playing badly. Imagine that happened to a 17 year old.
 
You didn't get my point. I just said that young players couldn't handle the pressure, regardless of what the media say. It's just huge to play for this club and just based on this caf, the expectations from the fans are immense. Not to speak of the stupid social media comments. Zirkzee got booed for playing badly. Imagine that happened to a 17 year old.

As I told you, most of the circus surrounding United is club driven. We use it to prove our sponsors that United is still a popular brand that attract people. Therefore if we decide to act as a proper club by kicking leakers out and by making it obvious that unfair criticism will have consequences than criticism will go down. Just ask Gaz who seem to have an opinion on everything apart from INEOS. You wonder why.

Taking that away then all you're left with is the most patient match going fans in the world (for a top club), a squad that everyone knows that is shit and is in need to an open heart surgery and a fanbase whose got a fetish for young players to the point that would often give them way more chances then they deserve. I mean some even think that there's still life in Shaw's career. I'd say this year is the best year to invest in kids. We'll probably won't qualify for European competition which means that the manager will have more time to drill his philosophy into this team.

PS: I am not suggesting that we only buy 17 year olds. However a squad like this

--------------------Vanja Milinkovic Savic-----------------

Quenda------Yoro----De Ligt--------Martinez-------Dorgu

---------------------Ugarte---------Stiller--------------------

---------------Bruno/Diallo----Guessand/Dybling

-------------------------Retegui/Emegha---------

would hardly get us relegated.
 
Said every summer for years need a mass cull, long before the open surgery comment from Ragnick. ALways promised, never happens...maybe this summer. In terms of who and how many, budget....pointless until we see the outgoings.

But the only players I really want us to keep for differing reasons in the summer maybe not all long term are Mazraoui, DeLigt, Dorgu,Yoro, Heaven, Ugarte, Mainoo, Amad, Obi Martin, Diego Leon too obviously. I really like Martinez but worry about the injuries.

I also hope squad depth wise maybe a couple can step up for regular squad places next summer from the likes of Kukonki, Kamason, Kone,Collyer Fletcher, Lacey, Gore even.

We cant sell everyone else obviously but there are several beyond the obvious I would cash in on or offload to save on wages.

As for incomings:

Quenda - Been so impressed whenever seen him. Really think him and Dorgu on the flanks improves us immensely and both are also really versatile

CB - Think one signing will suffice, not seen much of him in Germany but always liked Lukeba

CM - Backup for Mainoo and free Angel Gomes must be a good option. Both expensive I expect tbut I also really like Wharton and Baleba

As for the three attacking options, really not sure Desire Doue was my dream signing.I like Dibling, Cherki is a huge gamble but very talented...but not fully convinced either are transformative and Ommishen is about the only striker possibly ready.....so Ithink the sounts andall these football menwe have hired need to unearth a gem or two as we definately need 2 new signings in the positions which is crazy with all the youth talent hascome through and money spent.

Ideally we need about 12 signings, reallistically dependant on outgoings 6/7 good signings could be very transformative....Im sick of 5year plans though.Buying well which we havent done fora long time, two summers a team can be transformed
 
As I told you, most of the circus surrounding United is club driven. We use it to prove our sponsors that United is still a popular brand that attract people. Therefore if we decide to act as a proper club by kicking leakers out and by making it obvious that unfair criticism will have consequences than criticism will go down. Just ask Gaz who seem to have an opinion on everything apart from INEOS. You wonder why.

Taking that away then all you're left with is the most patient match going fans in the world (for a top club), a squad that everyone knows that is shit and is in need to an open heart surgery and a fanbase whose got a fetish for young players to the point that would often give them way more chances then they deserve. I mean some even think that there's still life in Shaw's career. I'd say this year is the best year to invest in kids. We'll probably won't qualify for European competition which means that the manager will have more time to drill his philosophy into this team.

PS: I am not suggesting that we only buy 17 year olds. However a squad like this

--------------------Vanja Milinkovic Savic-----------------

Quenda------Yoro----De Ligt--------Martinez-------Dorgu

---------------------Ugarte---------Stiller--------------------

---------------Bruno/Diallo----Guessand/Dybling

-------------------------Retegui/Emegha---------

would hardly get us relegated.
No but wouldn't make us a top 10 either.

Also, Stiller won't move for cheap in the summer as Stuttgart might want to cash in before they lose him for only €35m on 2026 (has a release clause). Bayern seems to be sniffing at him, too so low chance he comes to us. Retegui is great but he really smells like a player who would struggle in the EPL. He is not really pacey and our last two Serie A strikers have struggled hard here. Emegha sounds a bit better but he for me is a number two. We at least need one of Gyokeres/Osimhen/Sesko imo. Guessand I don't know much about him. Dibling would make sense if se sell Garnacho.
 
No but wouldn't make us a top 10 either.

Also, Stiller won't move for cheap in the summer as Stuttgart might want to cash in before they lose him for only €35m on 2026 (has a release clause). Bayern seems to be sniffing at him, too so low chance he comes to us. Retegui is great but he really smells like a player who would struggle in the EPL. He is not really pacey and our last two Serie A strikers have struggled hard here. Emegha sounds a bit better but he for me is a number two. We at least need one of Gyokeres/Osimhen/Sesko imo. Guessand I don't know much about him. Dibling would make sense if se sell Garnacho.

Actually the aim is a top 6 position which I think its quite achievable considering that Nottingham Forest and Newcastle are in that ball park. I believe that you're underestimating the huge benefits United will have by not being bogged down into Europe. That would give us the time to properly rest between games and get tactics drilled into them. Napoli ended 10th last season and they lost Osimhen and Zeilinski. One year later and three EPL rejects later (Lukaku, McT and Gilmour) they are at 2nd place one point away from Inter.

Now let's have a look at the signings.

Retegui is not Zirkzee. He's an old school striker whose got an excellent eye for goal. He's 6ft1, he had made his bones in Argentina which is far more aggressive then the methodical Serie A. Regarding his speed according to UEFA his top speed is 33.33km/h. He's not a speedster but he's faster then Kane (30.35km/h) and around the likes of Watkins (33km/h) and Marmoush (33.42km/h). On top of that he's got a 43m minimum clause inserted in his contract and Atalanta would probably ask less if Hojlund is involved in the deal. That means if things go South then we'll be able to recoup the money back.These are the type of signings we should engage in especially for experienced players. Vanja Milinkovic Savic for example is experienced, he's add physicality and dominance in the box, he's a great goal stopper and he knows United well. He's on a low salary and his contract ends in 2026. If we sell Oh nono then he'll be a catch.

Now on the other signings. Dibling is young, he's got great technique and versatility and Southampton are set to be relegated. He should come for a reasonable fee. Guessand is doing wonders in France (11 goals and 7 assists in 31 matches). Similarly to Dibling he can play different positions (including striker and no 10) and he plays for a certain Nice FC. We might be able to add Stiller on the cheap (40m euros) considering his clause on 2026, then there's Nypan as well and free transfers such as Mitchell and Regulon who'd give us cover assuming Malacia leaves.

PS: I'd sell Garnacho. He's not that good, he represent pure profit and his decision making/attitude is awful. I dare to say I'd sell Mainoo as well if he's really asking for a silly salary.
 
Actually the aim is a top 6 position which I think its quite achievable considering that Nottingham Forest and Newcastle are in that ball park. I believe that you're underestimating the huge benefits United will have by not being bogged down into Europe. That would give us the time to properly rest between games and get tactics drilled into them. Napoli ended 10th last season and they lost Osimhen and Zeilinski. One year later and three EPL rejects later (Lukaku, McT and Gilmour) they are at 2nd place one point away from Inter.

Now let's have a look at the signings.

Retegui is not Zirkzee. He's an old school striker whose got an excellent eye for goal. He's 6ft1, he had made his bones in Argentina which is far more aggressive then the methodical Serie A. Regarding his speed according to UEFA his top speed is 33.33km/h. He's not a speedster but he's faster then Kane (30.35km/h) and around the likes of Watkins (33km/h) and Marmoush (33.42km/h). On top of that he's got a 43m minimum clause inserted in his contract and Atalanta would probably ask less if Hojlund is involved in the deal. That means if things go South then we'll be able to recoup the money back.These are the type of signings we should engage in especially for experienced players. Vanja Milinkovic Savic for example is experienced, he's add physicality and dominance in the box, he's a great goal stopper and he knows United well. He's on a low salary and his contract ends in 2026. If we sell Oh nono then he'll be a catch.

Now on the other signings. Dibling is young, he's got great technique and versatility and Southampton are set to be relegated. He should come for a reasonable fee. Guessand is doing wonders in France (11 goals and 7 assists in 31 matches). Similarly to Dibling he can play different positions (including striker and no 10) and he plays for a certain Nice FC. We might be able to add Stiller on the cheap (40m euros) considering his clause on 2026, then there's Nypan as well and free transfers such as Mitchell and Regulon who'd give us cover assuming Malacia leaves.

PS: I'd sell Garnacho. He's not that good, he represent pure profit and his decision making/attitude is awful. I dare to say I'd sell Mainoo as well if he's really asking for a silly salary.
I agree on Garnacho and Savic but disagree on Rategui/Dibling/Guessand.

United rank 19th in the premier league for chances created from take ons, I.E a winger beating a defender and creating a chance. Now it doesn't have to be a winger plenty of teams have full backs or strikers who could do it but for almost every side this is primarily the role of wingers.

There's no point in signing Gyokeres/Rategui and expecting them to replicate the form in this United team when we don't have wingers capable of creating the type of chances they live on. Gyokeres scores an ungodly amount of 1 touch finishes in the box because he's attacking crosses from elite level 1v1 players. Amorims sporting side was #1 in Portugal for all of the chances/goals created from take on stats.

Rategui is a good player but he has lookman who ranks 93rd percentile for shot creating actions/86th percentile for assists/ 88th for progressive carries and 70th for successful take ons and De Ketelare whose superb in all these departments as well.

United desperately need some forward players capable of dribbling/playing 1v1. Otherwise it's just slow recycling the ball and ultimately losing possession because Garnacho or Dalot can't beat a defender to save their life.
Someone like Cunha/Lookman would massively benefit both Hojlund/Zirkzee, alternatively you have Cherki at Lyon who could plau right 10 with Amad at right wing back, Lyon has serious financial problems so he should be available at a decent price.

I'd also love to see us look at Kevin Lopes from Shaktar since he was the #1 player in this seasons champions league in this category. Shaktar only paid 10m for him so he'd certainly be cheaper than Cunha.

What I have no doubt about whatsoever is the skillset that any attacking signing this summer has to have and that's dribbling. We can't have a functioning attack without someone whose capable in this area. Just look at the best teams in Europe like Madrid with Vinicius (top 1% in the world) Mbappe (top 5%) and Rodyrgo. Or Barcelona with Yamal (again top 1%) Bayern with Olise/Sane/Musiala.

Watching United passing backwards and sidesways because we simply don't have a forward capable of beatiung a defender 1v1 is maddening then people suggest we spend big money on a #9 to do what exactly? Stand in the box like Ras or Zirkzee hoping Dalot/Shaw or Garnacho somehow turn into Vinicus or Yamal?