What do we still need? Aka The never ending story

Manchester United 2025/2026 season

GK: Zion Suzuki/Noah Atubolu
RCB: Noussair Mazraoui/Lenny Yoro
CB: Matthijs de Ligt/Ayden Heaven
LCB: Lisandro Martinez/Godwill Kukonki
RM: Geovanny Quenda/Diogo Dalot
RCM: Manuel Urgate/Ederson/Sekou Kone
LCM: Bruno Fernandes/Toby Collyer
LM: Patrick Dorgu/Diego Leon
RW: Amad Diallo/Joshua Zirkzee/Gabriele Biancheri
ST: Manfred Ugalde/Rasmus Hojlund/Chido Obi-Martin
LW: Kobbie Mainoo/Alejandro Garnacho/Mason Mount
 
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True but if Amad and Garnacho got injured we would literally have 0 attack.

How would we ever score?
meh could prob scrape enough draws and low scoring wins. Leicester is in the closest relegation spot and would need 4 wins to just get to our current total. 24 games in to the season and they have 4 wins total. That southampton comeback was pretty huge, as getting zero points on that matchup wouldve made things a lot more interesting overall. Our next 3 matches are everton, spurs, ipswich. if we go all 3 games without a win then id say yes, relegation could be back on the table. just one win in the 3 would be enough to keep us on track for what we need.
 
I agree we need a massive turnover of players this summer but given we don't have much liquidity even with the best case scenario of us getting reasonable money for our deadwood theres no way we'll be able to spend circa 300 million this summer.

And whats more I dont think we should either. Aside from the ST position I think we should aim for the low-mid tier of players instead of aiming for the Cunhas/Diblings. We are clearly a lower mid table team in terms of quality.

Much as it hurts to admit we are in no position where the addition of 2-3 genuine top class players will help us transform as a side. We need to look at how the likes of Palace and Bournemouth built their sides, i.e. buying players around the 15-20m mark. Thats the only way we'll be able to buy the 7,8+ players that we need to overhaul.

Dorgu was a step in the right direction but unfortunately our spending this past summer still shows that we're shopping at Harrods and deluding ourselves that one or two quality players will magically bring us back to the top.

There was never any need to gamble 50m+ on Yoro. We could have gotten 2 to 3 serviceable premier league professionals for that money. Look at Lacroix at Palace bought for 15m pounds and probably gonna perform at a higher level than Yoro for the foreseeable future. Only 24 too. Similarly its sheer madness spending that much on say Quenda instead of spreading that money around to buy athletic, powerful professionals.
Ok PSR is changing in season 25/26 to squad ratio rule which would in affect help us, however the big problem is the three year rolling loses.

As a club we can only lose £105m over that three year period and one of those years will still include include last year we the club lost a huge amount mainly because of the Glazers charging the club for the commission fees of the takeover to live their pockets and more importantly the £60m of interest charges to service all of their historic debt in buying the club and levying huge transfer instalments on players like Antony and Casemiro.

The real problem is we showed a net loss of £113m on 23/24 seasons and although we get significant credit backs on Youth, Training ground and ladies team development, the harsh reality of The Glazers selling 29% stake, maintaining control and then charging the £41m commission fees to the club has meant that the club paid £60m in interest charges.

Now there is a small positive if we sell a player like Rashford for £40m before the 1st July 2025, then his transfer fee plus Greenwood £24m plus McTominay £27m would all represent 100% academy profit plus others academy players we’ve let go, Greenwood and McTominay were sold after July 1st 2024.

That’s £90m of net profit which could be used to spend three to four times the value so in theory, providing we can show a £105m loss over the years from 22/23, 23/24 and 24/25 season through clever accounting and SJR £256m investment, then we could spend £300m easily, what’s important to remember here is that not all £300m would be paid in the summer of 2025 but nearly all the transfers would be paid on 3 to 5 year instalments, so the outlay in the summer with agent fees might be £100-120m and we might receive most of that value in transfer fees for outgoing players.

It’s also fair to surmise that this squad is so bad they won’t be playing any European football next year and the current wage bill of £350m will be significantly reduced, especially with Casemiro, Rashford, Sancho and Antony leaving!

I would guess that this wage bill will be stripped to £200-225m then they will try and add 5/6 elite players on £8-12m per year in wages. Man United are not palace or Bournemouth and neither team will ever play champions league football or win an Fa Cup or Europa League. Even under Woodward we were rarely out of the top5/6.


We need best in business, a top goalkeeper, A Fast physical CB to replace Maguire, at least two more rapid wing backs, two number 10’s, an Elite number 9 and two quality Midfield players.

Now I’m not saying all that can be done in one window I think it will take one more winter window and two summer windows but by 2026, Maguire, Shaw and Mount should also be shipped out for the next best three English options in those positions as well.
 
Need to look for some cheap or free CB that is not called Johnny Evans in the summer.
 
Manchester United 2025/2026 season

GK: Zion Suzuki/Noah Atubolu
RCB: Noussair Mazraoui/Lenny Yoro
CB: Matthijs de Ligt/Ayden Heaven
LCB: Lisandro Martinez/Godwill Kukonki
RM: Geovanny Quenda/Diogo Dalot
RCM: Manuel Urgate/Ederson/Sekou Kone
LCM: Bruno Fernandes/Toby Collyer
LM: Patrick Dorgu/Diego Leon
RW: Amad Diallo/Joshua Zirkzee/Gabriele Biancheri
ST: Manfred Ugalde/Rasmus Hojlund/Chido Obi-Martin
LW: Kobbie Mainoo/Alejandro Garnacho/Mason Mount
With this squad we end up at the bottom table again.
 
I know what we don't need..more prospect signings! Buy established players preferrably pl proven
 
Ok PSR is changing in season 25/26 to squad ratio rule which would in affect help us, however the big problem is the three year rolling loses.

As a club we can only lose £105m over that three year period and one of those years will still include include last year we the club lost a huge amount mainly because of the Glazers charging the club for the commission fees of the takeover to live their pockets and more importantly the £60m of interest charges to service all of their historic debt in buying the club and levying huge transfer instalments on players like Antony and Casemiro.

The real problem is we showed a net loss of £113m on 23/24 seasons and although we get significant credit backs on Youth, Training ground and ladies team development, the harsh reality of The Glazers selling 29% stake, maintaining control and then charging the £41m commission fees to the club has meant that the club paid £60m in interest charges.

Now there is a small positive if we sell a player like Rashford for £40m before the 1st July 2025, then his transfer fee plus Greenwood £24m plus McTominay £27m would all represent 100% academy profit plus others academy players we’ve let go, Greenwood and McTominay were sold after July 1st 2024.

That’s £90m of net profit which could be used to spend three to four times the value so in theory, providing we can show a £105m loss over the years from 22/23, 23/24 and 24/25 season through clever accounting and SJR £256m investment, then we could spend £300m easily, what’s important to remember here is that not all £300m would be paid in the summer of 2025 but nearly all the transfers would be paid on 3 to 5 year instalments, so the outlay in the summer with agent fees might be £100-120m and we might receive most of that value in transfer fees for outgoing players.

It’s also fair to surmise that this squad is so bad they won’t be playing any European football next year and the current wage bill of £350m will be significantly reduced, especially with Casemiro, Rashford, Sancho and Antony leaving!

I would guess that this wage bill will be stripped to £200-225m then they will try and add 5/6 elite players on £8-12m per year in wages. Man United are not palace or Bournemouth and neither team will ever play champions league football or win an Fa Cup or Europa League. Even under Woodward we were rarely out of the top5/6.


We need best in business, a top goalkeeper, A Fast physical CB to replace Maguire, at least two more rapid wing backs, two number 10’s, an Elite number 9 and two quality Midfield players.

Now I’m not saying all that can be done in one window I think it will take one more winter window and two summer windows but by 2026, Maguire, Shaw and Mount should also be shipped out for the next best three English options in those positions as well.
Thank you for laying out the finances im detail! As an accountant I'm certainly quite curious how these new rules will shape our spending.

However one thing which you havent taken account of is that we still owe almost 150m of transfer payments. I'm sure that hampers us further in terms of liquidity next summer.

I don't of course think our goal should be to settle for mid table mediocrity but perhaps given where we are we should be realistic about our level. Even Liverpool when they started under Klopp bought a few players like Robertson, Wijnaldum etc on the cheap to improve the squad.

I'm sorry but its clear our scouts cant be trusted with expensive buys. How many more Hojlunds and Yoros do we have to buy before we understand this? Either you pay the exorbitant fees needed to get proven quality players like Rice, Kane etc. which we don't seem to have the appetite for.

Knowing us we'll blow 200m getting Gyokeres, Quenda and an expensive AM/CF whereas we should be should be spreading the money around.
 
Manchester United 2025/2026 season

GK: Zion Suzuki/Noah Atubolu
RCB: Noussair Mazraoui/Lenny Yoro
CB: Matthijs de Ligt/Ayden Heaven
LCB: Lisandro Martinez/Godwill Kukonki
RM: Geovanny Quenda/Diogo Dalot
RCM: Manuel Urgate/Ederson/Sekou Kone
LCM: Bruno Fernandes/Toby Collyer
LM: Patrick Dorgu/Diego Leon
RW: Amad Diallo/Joshua Zirkzee/Gabriele Biancheri
ST: Manfred Ugalde/Rasmus Hojlund/Chido Obi-Martin
LW: Kobbie Mainoo/Alejandro Garnacho/Mason Mount
Call me a cynic but we really need to be recruiting sons of the best young English/British talent like ;

M Ghuei/J Branthwaite, C Rigg/ T Dybling,
M Gibbs-White/M Rogers, A Wharton/
J Bellingham / L De Lap, J Gittens, J Trafford /J Beadle/ A Ramsey , J Philogene

Our decline coincided with the club no longer recruiting the best young Emerging British Talent.

If we are going to have a huge summer we must look to recruit 2 or 3 from the above interestingly enough the England U21 seems to play 3421 most of the time so a lot of those players will be used to that system look at their last 7-0 win, they seem to know the system.
 
Thank you for laying out the finances im detail! As an accountant I'm certainly quite curious how these new rules will shape our spending.

However one thing which you havent taken account of is that we still owe almost 150m of transfer payments. I'm sure that hampers us further in terms of liquidity next summer.

I don't of course think our goal should be to settle for mid table mediocrity but perhaps given where we are we should be realistic about our level. Even Liverpool when they started under Klopp bought a few players like Robertson, Wijnaldum etc on the cheap to improve the squad.

I'm sorry but its clear our scouts cant be trusted with expensive buys. How many more Hojlunds and Yoros do we have to buy before we understand this? Either you pay the exorbitant fees needed to get proven quality players like Rice, Kane etc. which we don't seem to have the appetite for.

Knowing us we'll blow 200m getting Gyokeres, Quenda and an expensive AM/CF whereas we should be should be spreading the money around.
The scouts shouldn't be the ones who are blamed. They've been marginalized and ignored time and time again since SAF retired.
 
The scouts shouldn't be the ones who are blamed. They've been marginalized and ignored time and time again since SAF retired.
Ah yes you're right! The powers that be then . I dont trust the Ineos brain trust one bit after what they've done this summer. I honestly think nobody at the club making the spending decisions has taken a look around at the business other clubs are doing . There seems to be a bizarre fascination with every transfer we make to cost around 50 to 70 million despite almost all our purchases failing at that price point across multiple windows now
 
Nothing apparently, the club is completely happy with the squad.

One genuine striker in Hojlund

A bunch of busted 10s, Zirkzee, Eriksen, Bruno, Mount. Thankfully we have Amad, but he's playing wingback half the time.

No midfield, we have Ugarte, Casemiro has given up on life, Eriksen and Bruno can play there but are even worse then they are at 10, Collyer is a kid, Mainoo can play there but is clearly better further up the pitch and struggling with the pressure.

RB is probably ok, But Dalot needs to be upgraded on

LB we have a new recruit from Italy, a kid, and that's it,

CB we have De Ligt, who's quality, and Yoro who's a kid and struggling, Maguire, while a model professional, but just needs to be moved on, not good enough for this level and holding us back. Martinez will never be back, it's over unfortunately.

GK Onana is fecking shite, nuff said.

Honestly looking at that, if we get relegated it would be a fair outcome, we aren't really any better than that. We literally have half a squad and the window is closing and Manchester United is calm about the situation.
 
Thank you for laying out the finances im detail! As an accountant I'm certainly quite curious how these new rules will shape our spending.

However one thing which you havent taken account of is that we still owe almost 150m of transfer payments. I'm sure that hampers us further in terms of liquidity next summer.

I don't of course think our goal should be to settle for mid table mediocrity but perhaps given where we are we should be realistic about our level. Even Liverpool when they started under Klopp bought a few players like Robertson, Wijnaldum etc on the cheap to improve the squad.

I'm sorry but its clear our scouts cant be trusted with expensive buys. How many more Hojlunds and Yoros do we have to buy before we understand this? Either you pay the exorbitant fees needed to get proven quality players like Rice, Kane etc. which we don't seem to have the appetite for.

Knowing us we'll blow 200m getting Gyokeres, Quenda and an expensive AM/CF whereas we should be should be spreading the money around.
I think your find we still owe nearly £300m in transfer payments and the liquidity is a huge issue, you can look at last years accounts, SJR $300m(256m) investment was paid in two payments and mostly used to clear the credit card facility, $200m(£156m) paid in the summer and $100m in winter 2024.

Of course some of this money has gone into Carrington refurbishing, and some on agent fees, as well as summer transfers and Patrick Dorgu.

I think your right with our working cashflow however they have a very shrewd CFO now operating Roger Bell, who will have a crew of number crunchers looking for every penny and making sure that they can spend big in the summer as at least 5/6 players are needed and less players who are not PL proven and more players who are PL proven must be recruited.

What they are doing much better is moving players out and selling them and as for spreading the budget with lots of £25-35m players that didn’t work so well for Chelsea look at Axel Disasi, we were in for the same player, absolutely not fit for PL and Chelsea had Chalobah whose miles better and United fans turned the noise up at Chalobah!

We need to focus on PL proven and rebuild our British core of young English players, the England U21’s are reigning champs and they play 3421 so that’s a good starting point for us right now . We need to hope that Wilcox seeing as assuming the role of DOF agrees with this he certainly knows a lot of young English talent. If a player costs £45-60m and he’s 21-23 years old theirs a reason why?
 
Well if the choice was to choose between Garnacho and a new signing, I’m glad we stuck with Garnacho. He is definitely knuckling down and improving, and I’m not at all confident a new signing would have performed better given our history. Definitely better to take our time, look at more options and plan for summer improvements.

Sucks we are in such a poor financial position that despite being unable to create or score goals the only way to bolster our attack was to sell one of our most promising academy prospects.
 
Has anyone done the math to figure out exactly how much we're saving for the summer given the players we've loaned out?
 
We basically need a two-year process, and that's assuming that we're sticking with Amorim and his 3-4-3 into next season at the very least.

This summer, I'd say we need three new players to go directly into the first eleven:

.................................NEW.................................
...........................................................................
...................Bruno...............Mainoo...................
...........................................................................
Dorgu........................................................Amad
....................Ugarte...........NEW.........................
............................................................................
.......Mazraoui...........NEW............de Ligt...........
............................................................................
................................Onana.................................

If we can bring in a legitimate goalscoring striker, a center mid that can excel at bringing the ball forward, and an EPL-ready central defender (ie, not another kid), I think we'll have a team that can be relied upon to get us back into the top half. The goal for next season should be 8th place or so.

If we can manage that, then in the summer of '26 we can look at replacing Onana, Bruno, who will probably be on the decline by then, and maybe de Ligt.
 
Has anyone done the math to figure out exactly how much we're saving for the summer given the players we've loaned out?
PSR-wise you can assume that we're saving £2-3m from now til summer loaning out Rashford, Antony, Malacia and buying Dorgu. In terms of actual cashflow/balance it is impossible to say without knowing the payment terms of the Dorgu-deal.
 
We basically need a two-year process, and that's assuming that we're sticking with Amorim and his 3-4-3 into next season at the very least.

This summer, I'd say we need three new players to go directly into the first eleven:

.................................NEW.................................
...........................................................................
...................Bruno...............Mainoo...................
...........................................................................
Dorgu........................................................Amad
....................Ugarte...........NEW.........................
............................................................................
.......Mazraoui...........NEW............de Ligt...........
............................................................................
................................Onana.................................

If we can bring in a legitimate goalscoring striker, a center mid that can excel at bringing the ball forward, and an EPL-ready central defender (ie, not another kid), I think we'll have a team that can be relied upon to get us back into the top half. The goal for next season should be 8th place or so.

If we can manage that, then in the summer of '26 we can look at replacing Onana, Bruno, who will probably be on the decline by then, and maybe de Ligt.

I see no need to get rid of de Ligt. He's been consistently very good for us, though admittedly not world class.

But above all we need a legitimate goal scoring striker. Failure to bring one in would mean another woebegone season. As for a center mid who can bring the ball forward, I'm with you there. I have my doubts that Mount can ever be that player, but it is the hope that he is that kind of midfielder.
 
Has anyone done the math to figure out exactly how much we're saving for the summer given the players we've loaned out?
It’s more about a three year rolling cycle to make sure that we pass this year’s three year PSR which runs from 22/23 season, 23/24 season and this season 24/25.

We lost £115m last year mainly due to the Glazers charging us £41m for the ‘Raine Group’ Commission and the interest of £60m charged on the legacy and transfer debt owed. The year before we lost £28.7m that’s already £143.7m and you are only allowed loses of £105m or £35m per year over the 3 year period. We will get credit backs for youth team and lady team investment plus investment to Refurbishing Carrington which is what some of the $300m SJR investment was used for.

Plus we have sold Greenwood, Mctominay and Potentially Rashford all academy products for nearly £100m which will be shown as pure net profit. In this year’s 24/25 accounts providing Rashford signs before July 1st for another team.

Hopefully with wages saved on Sancho, Rashford, Antony, plus 20% reduction in wages for not qualifying for CL, my quick guesstimate is we might have saved £50m per year in wages, especially when you Factor in Sir Alex £4m per year and the cut backs to retired players on the payroll and other football employee costs like scouts etc.

For clarification I’m suggesting that £377m in wages we paid for a Champions league Season of 2023/24 would and should be reduced with all the cut backs to £327m but it’s important to note that the £668m revenue line from that season will also reduce as we have no CL football revenue for this season.

We then need to add in the players we bought this year which would be about £230m with Patrick Dorgu but all those players are being bought on instalments of probably £50/60m per year collectively, add on transfer fees for Sancho, AWB and others and the club might make a surprise profit in this accounting year but it will be very small ‘especially when the club also has to include Amorim and his staff’s buy out fees and ETH and his staff pay off fees.

The real problem for this summer won’t be PSR, not now but instead actual cashflow. Where is the cash actually coming from to buy new players in the summer, without player sales?

I fully expect Garnaucho to be sold in Summer if a club pays £60-65m upfront cash. The short answer is that Roger Bell, our new CFO is an elite finance operator and he will be on top of the PSR and Cash problems with multiple number crunchers employed to assist him.

My guess is he’s reporting directly to SJR and he was key in a lot of the cutbacks and suggestions for Ticket rises, he’s an accountant at heart but a Chief Finance Officer who resigned from INEOS to take the United Job as he’s another lifetime supporter, the board especially those of INEOS persuasion have looked at this like a failing business which is dying and therefore there is little point in keeping anything, so better to burn everything and then start from scratch to rebuild the club.

United could probably spend £250-300m this summer, the main problem may be;
where is the £100-120m of actual liquidity in your bank account you would need to do that and how much interest are all these loans costing to service?

The bigger question is if we can barely service the existing debt, how will the club finance a £2billion new stadium, yes INEOS can pay but then man united have to pay rent to INEOS who own the stadium?
 
I see no need to get rid of de Ligt. He's been consistently very good for us, though admittedly not world class.

But above all we need a legitimate goal scoring striker. Failure to bring one in would mean another woebegone season. As for a center mid who can bring the ball forward, I'm with you there. I have my doubts that Mount can ever be that player, but it is the hope that he is that kind of midfielder.

Mount is a player that I don't even figure into our future plans, similarly to Shaw and now, unfortunately, Martinez. With Mount and Shaw, they simply cannot be relied upon, and we can't go into seasons with squad players who you know will never play more than 5-10 matches at best because they're always injured. With Martinez, it's just a case of awful luck; this is two potentially career-altering injuries in as many years, and it throws his future into major question and I don't think we can count on him being part of the picture anymore.
 
So here's a question. Watching yesterdays MOTD2. They mentioned in analysis that mateta is exactly the sort of striker you need for 343 system. A focal / reference point for the team. Who keeps centre halfs on their toes. Can run the channels, run in behind,hold up play, bully centre backs etc. Everything we need from a centre forward at Utd.

So could it be a case that we just need a big strong centre forward up front, who doesn't need to be a world-class / elite forward? Just someone who creates the space for the two no10s to play and is a ball magnet when it's pinged into him?
 
So here's a question. Watching yesterdays MOTD2. They mentioned in analysis that mateta is exactly the sort of striker you need for 343 system. A focal / reference point for the team. Who keeps centre halfs on their toes. Can run the channels, run in behind,hold up play, bully centre backs etc. Everything we need from a centre forward at Utd.

So could it be a case that we just need a big strong centre forward up front, who doesn't need to be a world-class / elite forward? Just someone who creates the space for the two no10s to play and is a ball magnet when it's pinged into him?

Shame we couldn't find one in this window
 
So here's a question. Watching yesterdays MOTD2. They mentioned in analysis that mateta is exactly the sort of striker you need for 343 system. A focal / reference point for the team. Who keeps centre halfs on their toes. Can run the channels, run in behind,hold up play, bully centre backs etc. Everything we need from a centre forward at Utd.

So could it be a case that we just need a big strong centre forward up front, who doesn't need to be a world-class / elite forward? Just someone who creates the space for the two no10s to play and is a ball magnet when it's pinged into him?

Mateta has something like 23 goals in 38 matches since Glasner arrived, so he’s providing the goals and the hold up play. I’d say that both parts are needed for the CF in a 3-4-3. Obviously, currently we get neither from Højlund and only (some) hold up play from Zirkzee.
 
I'll be honest I'm not bothered that we haven't gone mental and thrown 50 million at a player we don't really need. That is what we've done over and over again and it's been a disaster. We've basically risen a white flag to say the season is another write off and we will focus on the cups. I'm ok with that if it gives us a chance to make improvements in the summer, we need 4 or 5 new players and at least 2 of them need to relatively well established players in their mid 20s who can step up another level.

Really like the Dorgu signing it allows us to improve in 3 positions...LWB RWB and CAM. It lets dalot goo to the right hand side, Amad to get into the ten and Maz can go to CB. It might not be a winning formula straight away but it will bring some balance and hopefully some marginal gains.

I would love to see Shaw and Mount come back and play the rest of the season. I think those 2 would be game changing genuinely.
 
I'll be honest I'm not bothered that we haven't gone mental and thrown 50 million at a player we don't really need. That is what we've done over and over again and it's been a disaster. We've basically risen a white flag to say the season is another write off and we will focus on the cups. I'm ok with that if it gives us a chance to make improvements in the summer, we need 4 or 5 new players and at least 2 of them need to relatively well established players in their mid 20s who can step up another level.

Really like the Dorgu signing it allows us to improve in 3 positions...LWB RWB and CAM. It lets dalot goo to the right hand side, Amad to get into the ten and Maz can go to CB. It might not be a winning formula straight away but it will bring some balance and hopefully some marginal gains.

I would love to see Shaw and Mount come back and play the rest of the season. I think those 2 would be game changing genuinely.
Yes. There isn't a high bar for Dorgu to meet in terms of attacking play.

If we are counting the positives you're right - Shaw is back and Mount will be in the next couple of weeks.

The biggest plus i can see is the reduced number of games in Feb. Hopefully with Dorgu and Shaw available as well we can use the extra training to drill our basics and attacking patterns of play in a better shape.

At the very least we should be able to try to repair Rasmus' head and get him making better runs and playinb to his strengths. We need to know by Jjne whether we need 1 or 2 strikers
 
It’s more about a three year rolling cycle to make sure that we pass this year’s three year PSR which runs from 22/23 season, 23/24 season and this season 24/25.

We lost £115m last year mainly due to the Glazers charging us £41m for the ‘Raine Group’ Commission and the interest of £60m charged on the legacy and transfer debt owed. The year before we lost £28.7m that’s already £143.7m and you are only allowed loses of £105m or £35m per year over the 3 year period. We will get credit backs for youth team and lady team investment plus investment to Refurbishing Carrington which is what some of the $300m SJR investment was used for.

Plus we have sold Greenwood, Mctominay and Potentially Rashford all academy products for nearly £100m which will be shown as pure net profit. In this year’s 24/25 accounts providing Rashford signs before July 1st for another team.

Hopefully with wages saved on Sancho, Rashford, Antony, plus 20% reduction in wages for not qualifying for CL, my quick guesstimate is we might have saved £50m per year in wages, especially when you Factor in Sir Alex £4m per year and the cut backs to retired players on the payroll and other football employee costs like scouts etc.

For clarification I’m suggesting that £377m in wages we paid for a Champions league Season of 2023/24 would and should be reduced with all the cut backs to £327m but it’s important to note that the £668m revenue line from that season will also reduce as we have no CL football revenue for this season.

We then need to add in the players we bought this year which would be about £230m with Patrick Dorgu but all those players are being bought on instalments of probably £50/60m per year collectively, add on transfer fees for Sancho, AWB and others and the club might make a surprise profit in this accounting year but it will be very small ‘especially when the club also has to include Amorim and his staff’s buy out fees and ETH and his staff pay off fees.

The real problem for this summer won’t be PSR, not now but instead actual cashflow. Where is the cash actually coming from to buy new players in the summer, without player sales?

I fully expect Garnaucho to be sold in Summer if a club pays £60-65m upfront cash. The short answer is that Roger Bell, our new CFO is an elite finance operator and he will be on top of the PSR and Cash problems with multiple number crunchers employed to assist him.

My guess is he’s reporting directly to SJR and he was key in a lot of the cutbacks and suggestions for Ticket rises, he’s an accountant at heart but a Chief Finance Officer who resigned from INEOS to take the United Job as he’s another lifetime supporter, the board especially those of INEOS persuasion have looked at this like a failing business which is dying and therefore there is little point in keeping anything, so better to burn everything and then start from scratch to rebuild the club.

United could probably spend £250-300m this summer, the main problem may be;
where is the £100-120m of actual liquidity in your bank account you would need to do that and how much interest are all these loans costing to service?

The bigger question is if we can barely service the existing debt, how will the club finance a £2billion new stadium, yes INEOS can pay but then man united have to pay rent to INEOS who own the stadium?
Thanks for that mate. A brilliant break down
 
Call me a cynic but we really need to be recruiting sons of the best young English/British talent like ;

M Ghuei/J Branthwaite, C Rigg/ T Dybling,
M Gibbs-White/M Rogers, A Wharton/
J Bellingham / L De Lap, J Gittens, J Trafford /J Beadle/ A Ramsey , J Philogene

Our decline coincided with the club no longer recruiting the best young Emerging British Talent.

If we are going to have a huge summer we must look to recruit 2 or 3 from the above interestingly enough the England U21 seems to play 3421 most of the time so a lot of those players will be used to that system look at their last 7-0 win, they seem to know the system.
You mean like Rashford, Sancho, Lingard, Henderson, Shaw, Maguire, Mount, McTominay, Greenwood?

Sure our decline has been in not signing Emerging British Talent, and definitely not to do with with overpaying for the wrong players.

We should sign players based on their ability to match the system laid out by the manager, and they should be recruited based on talent and adaptability to what we are trying to do regardless of Nationality.
 
It’s more about a three year rolling cycle to make sure that we pass this year’s three year PSR which runs from 22/23 season, 23/24 season and this season 24/25.

We lost £115m last year mainly due to the Glazers charging us £41m for the ‘Raine Group’ Commission and the interest of £60m charged on the legacy and transfer debt owed. The year before we lost £28.7m that’s already £143.7m and you are only allowed loses of £105m or £35m per year over the 3 year period. We will get credit backs for youth team and lady team investment plus investment to Refurbishing Carrington which is what some of the $300m SJR investment was used for.

Plus we have sold Greenwood, Mctominay and Potentially Rashford all academy products for nearly £100m which will be shown as pure net profit. In this year’s 24/25 accounts providing Rashford signs before July 1st for another team.

Hopefully with wages saved on Sancho, Rashford, Antony, plus 20% reduction in wages for not qualifying for CL, my quick guesstimate is we might have saved £50m per year in wages, especially when you Factor in Sir Alex £4m per year and the cut backs to retired players on the payroll and other football employee costs like scouts etc.

For clarification I’m suggesting that £377m in wages we paid for a Champions league Season of 2023/24 would and should be reduced with all the cut backs to £327m but it’s important to note that the £668m revenue line from that season will also reduce as we have no CL football revenue for this season.

We then need to add in the players we bought this year which would be about £230m with Patrick Dorgu but all those players are being bought on instalments of probably £50/60m per year collectively, add on transfer fees for Sancho, AWB and others and the club might make a surprise profit in this accounting year but it will be very small ‘especially when the club also has to include Amorim and his staff’s buy out fees and ETH and his staff pay off fees.

The real problem for this summer won’t be PSR, not now but instead actual cashflow. Where is the cash actually coming from to buy new players in the summer, without player sales?

I fully expect Garnaucho to be sold in Summer if a club pays £60-65m upfront cash. The short answer is that Roger Bell, our new CFO is an elite finance operator and he will be on top of the PSR and Cash problems with multiple number crunchers employed to assist him.

My guess is he’s reporting directly to SJR and he was key in a lot of the cutbacks and suggestions for Ticket rises, he’s an accountant at heart but a Chief Finance Officer who resigned from INEOS to take the United Job as he’s another lifetime supporter, the board especially those of INEOS persuasion have looked at this like a failing business which is dying and therefore there is little point in keeping anything, so better to burn everything and then start from scratch to rebuild the club.

United could probably spend £250-300m this summer, the main problem may be;
where is the £100-120m of actual liquidity in your bank account you would need to do that and how much interest are all these loans costing to service?

The bigger question is if we can barely service the existing debt, how will the club finance a £2billion new stadium, yes INEOS can pay but then man united have to pay rent to INEOS who own the stadium?

Good analysis. I agree that the actual cash flow and debt situation is as bad if not worse than the PSR issues.

On the PSR calculations, one other aspect that will help us is getting players with large amortizations off the P&L. I believe Sancho will go off once transfer completed and we should have Bruno and Maguire amortized fully in the next year. Then if we can get rid of Anthony and Casemiro, that's 30m GBP per annum in just amortization (assuming we sell them at book value)
 
Do we have some gems in the academy/U21 that can be fastracked to the first team? If not it's going to be a really rough second half of the season. Can't believe how thin we are in the attacking front.
 
-----------------Gyokeres
--------------Mainoo--Amad
Dorgu--Ederson--Ugarte--Quenda
-------Martinez---De Ligt---Yoro
-------------------Onana

Release: Lindelof, Eriksen, Evans

Promote: Amass, Leon

Sell: Antony (20m), Casemiro (20m), Shaw (25m), Rashford (40m), Malacia (12.5m), Sancho (25m), Højlund (30m), Dalot (20m), Mount(?)
Total: 192.5m

Bring in: Quenda (40m), Gyokeres (55m), Ederson (45m), RAM/LAM cover.
 
Last edited:
-----------------Gyokeres
--------------Mainoo--Amad
Dorgu--Ederson--Ugarte--Quenda
-------Martinez---De Ligt---Yoro
-------------------Onana

Release: Lindelof, Eriksen, Evans

Promote: Amass, Leon

Sell: Antony (20m), Casemiro (20m), Shaw (25m), Rashford (40m), Malacia (12.5m), Sancho (25m), Højlund (30m), Dalot (20m), Mount(?)
Total: 192.5m

Bring in: Quenda (40m), Gyokeres (55m), Ederson (45m), RAM/LAM cover.

Just need to replace Onana and Martinez and that looks good.
 
Do we have some gems in the academy/U21 that can be fastracked to the first team? If not it's going to be a really rough second half of the season. Can't believe how thin we are in the attacking front.
I was wondering this too. It seems there aren’t many obvious U21 and the big talent is more in the younger years which is really unfortunate. Hopefully there are some players that can fill in and do a job off the bench. Not a great environment to be bringing these lads into though.
 
I was wondering this too. It seems there aren’t many obvious U21 and the big talent is more in the younger years which is really unfortunate. Hopefully there are some players that can fill in and do a job off the bench. Not a great environment to be bringing these lads into though.
Agree, but it will also be interesting to test their temperament in tough situations. Amorim has a good track record with youth, so here's hoping.
 
We have spent 10 years going down. Still, there is an immense pressure to play for Man Utd, almost unbearable for most. But the EPL and Footy changed so much, that a different culture is what we need. And it takes time. We can't keep killing players the moment they dress the shirt. And now there is a urgent need to combine physical attributes, with technical ability and tactical knowledge, there is no survival at top level without a combination of the 3 key areas. Problem is, for me, adaptation to a very different era. All player signings from ineos (bar Josh), manager choice and financial decisions point in that direction.
 
You mean like Rashford, Sancho, Lingard, Henderson, Shaw, Maguire, Mount, McTominay, Greenwood?

Sure our decline has been in not signing Emerging British Talent, and definitely not to do with with overpaying for the wrong players.

We should sign players based on their ability to match the system laid out by the manager, and they should be recruited based on talent and adaptability to what we are trying to do regardless of Nationality.
Five of those players came through the academy, Shaw but for his injuries would have been our best signing in the last 10 years, Mount, we should have never been signed just like we should never have signed Wilfred Zaha and Maguire was ok to decent for two years, now go back to Rio, Rooney, Cole, Keane, Ince, Pallister, Irwin, Bruce, Sharpe.

Sir Alex made a few mistakes but he was far more interested in the players character as well as his football ability! He believed that English needed to be spoken by the team, even though he spoke a little French, he wasn’t a bigot, far from it, he just believed the team was playing in EPL and needed to understand each other, it’s why he bought so many north Europeans from Norway, Holland they always spoke great English and the French players he used for flair also spoke great English.

Does Manuel Ugarte or Casemiro even speak English? Yet fans expect them to drive the engine of the team? It’s important it’s why we recruited so many Dutch and Scandinavian players in the past twenty years. Rhodri is the driving force of City, without him their useless, his English is exemplary just like Bruno’s but one is a true leader and the other is not!

Fergie would never have tolerated the Lingard/Rashford/Sancho/Pogba rubbish and for the record the team that easily beat us on Saturday started with 5 native speaking English players and 6 on the bench.
Henderson, Gheui, Hughes, Richard’s, Mitchell and on their bench ; Eze, Clyne, Wharton, Deveney, Nketiah Turner.

I’m not being a bigot, I’m trying to explain that a lot of PL squads have raided the best young British/American/Australian/NZ players as a core maybe 10 to 12 in their squad who have come up through the English/British youth system and then added to that core group, your right we should sign players based on their ability to adapt to the managers system but let me give you an example of why buying the majority of players from outside the PL does not work.

If we could find a young Angel Di Maria or Alexis Sanches in their pomp right now, everyone on paper would be saying we need to get both of these players to play inside 10’s and yet we both know that neither player could settle in Manchester and only came for the money, now on the flip side if you could recruit a young Cavani or Zlatan both have the mental fortitude to play and dominate for a club like Man United so yes recruit Elite, not young players. Maybe we should buy Mkhitaryan or S Kagawa would fit perfectly into a 3421 system, they might but not in a high intensity, highly physical PL!

Elite players from Europe like Ederson from Atlanta or Gykores from Sporting but mix that with a majority of very good young British players like Tyler Dibbling, Jared Branthwaite, Jobe Bellingham, Morgan Gibbs White, Chris Rigg. These young British players are used to the intensity and physicality of the English game.

We’ve lost our identity!
when the majority of the squad was homegrown mixed with 1/3 of the squad being Outstanding World talent, United under Fergie had the balance right and had the dominant role models and leaders in the dressing room.

Today three quarter of our squad are not homegrown and one quarter are but they are either not good enough or always injured, look at the team on Saturday and the bench, it’s basically the blind leading the blind!

For the record we started with 2 British players Maguire(Nearing the end of his career!) and Mainoo (Just starting out on his career, being asked to play a role he’s never played before!) and then we had Toby Collyer and Ely Harrison on the bench.

Four players from a matchday squad of 20, we had two goalkeepers on the bench, two Defensive Midfielders, two Centre backs at home to palace and people want to give Amorim a pass, he could easily have promoted S Mather, Moorehouse, Mussa, Ogunnye, Scallion, Chido to give the squad some pace and youthful attacking options.

For the record the under 21’s are actually playing well, in 4th place and have a game in hand to go 3rd and have an outside chance of wining that league even with a very good city and Fulham side above them. They’ve won 5 of their last 6 PL2 games and although they are struggling in Europe, a lot of the Title winning under 18 squad from last year are playing really well for the U21’s. Yet none have been given a chance?

We’ve lost our way, we no longer play Attack, Attack and Attack football but sideways crab like football with very little penetration and very little excitement?
 
Do we have some gems in the academy/U21 that can be fastracked to the first team? If not it's going to be a really rough second half of the season. Can't believe how thin we are in the attacking front.
Yes and this is where Amorim is failing massively, for someone who likes to work with young players and basically have a bench of 2 Goalkeepers, 2 Centre backs and 2 Defensive midfielders against Palace is shocking, when the under 21’s have moved up to 4th in PL2 and won 5 out of their last 6 PL2 games.

He should be looking at the following to solve his problems right now ; Jack Moorehouse, HAbeeb Ogunyee, Harry Amass, Samuel Mather, Victor Mussa,
S Kone, Chido Obi, Ruben curly, Jack Fletcher, Gabrielle Biancheri, James Scanlon, Shea Lacey and Amir Ibragimov.

All of these kids have a chance, some are injured or just coming back from injury and we let a lot of players like Wheatley, Gore, Enis and Williams go out on loan to get first teams men’s football.

My guess is that Jack Moorehouse, S Kone and either or both Chido obi and G Biancheri will start to feature for the first team from March/April of this year.

I really think a young player like Mussa would be great from the bench as an Amorim type wing back to give us another wide option with pace. If Shea Lacey ever gets over his injury problems he would be the perfect left footed right 10 for the Amorim system.
 
Yes and this is where Amorim is failing massively, for someone who likes to work with young players and basically have a bench of 2 Goalkeepers, 2 Centre backs and 2 Defensive midfielders against Palace is shocking, when the under 21’s have moved up to 4th in PL2 and won 5 out of their last 6 PL2 games.
Tbf I think he is/was still assessing the first team players before making any big changes. Looks like it's getting to the edge though, not playing any of our 2 strikers in the last game is a message.
 
Are we all now in agreement that a forward is the most urgent next major signing ?

I was surprised how many disagreed with that in the summer, but it’s surely more obvious now?
 
Tbf I think he is/was still assessing the first team players before making any big changes. Looks like it's getting to the edge though, not playing any of our 2 strikers in the last game is a message.
He’s had 19 games to work out his best team and decide on players who don’t fit his system, Amad is better as right wing back as he gets the team higher up the pitch, Mainoo or Zirkzee but not both are better in the 10 role as neither has pace, Mount would be an asset if he could stay fit for the last 4/5 months of the season(highly unlikely) We need to pray that Shaw can stay fit at Left CB because Yoro and Maguire are a massive issue on that side, I’d even give the young 18 year old we’ve just signed from Arsenal a go first.

Right Now Amorim needs to pick his best team and bench and leave it alone to either sink or swim;

I think our best team right now is ;
3421 formation

A Bayinder (GK)

N Mazraoui (RCB)
MDL (CB)
L Shaw if fit (LCB)

Amad(RWB)
M UGarte (DM)
B Fernandes (CM)
P Dorgu(LWB)

K Mainoo(R10)
A Garnaucho (WL SS)

R Hojlund (9)

Back up
A Onana (GK) and Ely Harrison might be a better option in a few months

V Lindelof/ L Yoro (RCB)
H Maguire (CB)
V Lindelof /A Heaven (LCB)

D Dalot / H Ogunnye (RWB)
Casemiro (DM)
T Collyer (CM) /Jack Moorehouse
V Mussa / J Scanlon (LWB)

C Eriksen (R10)
M Mount/G Biancheri (L10)

J Zirkzee/Chido obi Martin

Now I’m not saying promote 6 or 7 of the youth but he needs to find 2 or 3 attacking players like Victor Mussa and maybe Biancheri or Chido obi and put them in the bench rather than 6 or 7 defensive players!
 
Are we all now in agreement that a forward is the most urgent next major signing ?

I was surprised how many disagreed with that in the summer, but it’s surely more obvious now?
We need a number 9 and then a number 10 inside/second striker like M Cunha. These two positions are critical, we also need at least one more wing back with elite pace.