What do we still need? Aka The never ending story

Our poor all retention (especially when pressed) and our lack of goals are the main problem this season.

By good ball retention I mean having players that can keep possession as well as progress the ball. The only players that can do both these things in our starting 11 are Shaw, Martinez and to an extent Antony. This doesn't mean we need 8 new players though. Players like Casemiro Rashford and Bruno while not great at ball retention, are world class in other areas. They are also obviously cemented starters and so the best we can do is surround them with other players that can keep the ball and progress it.

The other problem being lack of goals just means we need a top striker. So our needs are:


?
Rashford Bruno Antony
? Casemiro
Shaw Martinez ? ?
?​



GK - Costa (65m), with the cheaper option being Raya (30m)

RB - Geertruida/Mazraoui (30m)

RCB - Kim Min Jae (43m)

CM - Mac Allister (65m) with the cheaper option being Thuram/Kovacic (45m)

ST - Kane (80m) with the cheaper option being Hojlund/David (60m)
 
With the glazers in charge...

Raya
Kim min jea cb
Rabiot
Toney
And a back gk and rb if we can offload the likes of either Maguire or lindelof along with bailly, de gea, Henderson, dalot, mctominay, sancho, beek and martial.
 
Big Ben Foster said:
Nothing against Kane (he'd improve this team tremendously), but what are our scouts doing? What we should be doing with our limited resources is looking for the next Harry Kane.
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Anytime I or others say that we should be targeting younger players than Kane, I see people screaming that its absurd that some people think a 30 year old is "past it" and "look at Lewandowski" etc etc. But the argument for not buying Kane or Benzema for one year is much more linked to the squad building effects than any knock on the players capability to play past 30. For example, in the last couple of years we've bought/signed Varane, Casemiro and Eriksen whom are all on big contracts and already we need to upgrade Eriksen in midfield and Varane can't stay fit so the weaknesses in this strategy are already apparent. It's just not sustainable to be doing business like this especially when there are so many missing parts but if we sign Kane for big money, we will spend another two or three windows filling the other needs that we have and by then all these 30+'s will be well past it.

It really annoys me that we can't commit to a proper rebuild besides darting around like a cat after a laser at the latest quick fix that becomes available in the market. We've been doing it for years now with Zlatan, Cavani, Ronaldo, Eriksen, Casemiro, Varane - all good/great players but the wrong players to be buying in the middle of a rebuild when there's a million holes to plug. We need to be buying players that can grow with each other and peak together besides constantly running to stand still. We wasted Pogba's entire peak by not having a balanced team around him and are in danger of doing the same for the likes of Bruno, Shaw and Rashford too.
 
If people had to choose, would you prefer to go all out for someone like Osimhen or Kane for the ST position (whatever your personal preference is), or opt for a cheaper, less proven option (like Hojland) and have the funds to get a new GK like Costa or Maignan too?
 
daba said:
If people had to choose, would you prefer to go all out for someone like Osimhen or Kane for the ST position (whatever your personal preference is), or opt for a cheaper, less proven option (like Hojland) and have the funds to get a new GK like Costa or Maignan too?
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Cheaper option and cover both. I'd like us to do some scouting for once.
 
daba said:
If people had to choose, would you prefer to go all out for someone like Osimhen or Kane for the ST position (whatever your personal preference is), or opt for a cheaper, less proven option (like Hojland) and have the funds to get a new GK like Costa or Maignan too?
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Has to be a top striker and delay goalkeeper. We need a top striker. To reach the top, you need a top striker. You can't be a top club without a world class forward. Even non top strikers are expensive. We need that guarantee, or as close to it as possible. No need to rush it and spend big on mediocre options. Wait the 1 year and get Costa or Maignan at that point.
 
A goalkeeper. De Gea to go.

A right back. Wan-Bissaka to go.

A centre half. Maguire to go.

Two central midfielders. McTominay to go.

A striker.

Six players. The club hasn’t got the foresight, stomach or funds for it, sadly.
 
daba said:
If people had to choose, would you prefer to go all out for someone like Osimhen or Kane for the ST position (whatever your personal preference is), or opt for a cheaper, less proven option (like Hojland) and have the funds to get a new GK like Costa or Maignan too?
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Surely we have to go for cheaper options, both Napoli and Spurs will want silly money and that’s if they even contemplate selling.

We have desperate needs in so many positions I just don’t think we can spend 100m plus on individuals. We have to start finding better value or we’ll just be constantly rebuilding because we can't afford enough players.
 
bosnian_red said:
Has to be a top striker and delay goalkeeper. We need a top striker. To reach the top, you need a top striker. You can't be a top club without a world class forward. Even non top strikers are expensive. We need that guarantee, or as close to it as possible. No need to rush it and spend big on mediocre options. Wait the 1 year and get Costa or Maignan at that point.
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If Raya costs 20mn and we can offload 350k/w DDG replacing him with someone on 100k p/q (that would quadruple Raya's current salary), that is a 13mn savings p/a. Raya is one of the better shotstoppers in the league now and he's miles ahead of DDG from a footballing point of view. It's a complete no-brainer for me and then we can upgrade to our preferred long-term option when the finances become more attractive.
 
Roboc7 said:
Surely we have to go for cheaper options, both Napoli and Spurs will want silly money and that’s if they even contemplate selling.

We have desperate needs in so many positions I just don’t think we can spend 100m plus on individuals. We have to start finding better value or we’ll just be constantly rebuilding because we can't afford enough players.
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Bayern, PSG and Chelsea will also be in the market for a striker. 4 top clubs in urgent need of a striker and only 2 or 3 top targets available if you include Muani.
 
We need, to trim the squad and get shot of players who just can't cut the mustard. We need to be brave enough to sell players and get some money back for them, offer clubs incentives to take the players on big and long contracts.
 
Honest, ideally in the medium term we should onlt keep following 10 players and get new players for remaining positions

GK:
RB:
CB: Varane
CB: Martinez
LB: Shaw
DM: Casemiro
CM: Eriksen
AM: Bruno
RW: Antony, Amad
CF
LW: Rashford, Garnacho
 
Since The Glazers haven't sold the club it's becoming increasingly more likely it's going to be another frustrating transfer windows where we struggle to bring in players and get rid of the deadwood.

But in terms of priority it has to be GK, CM and Striker for me. Could do with some better cover for CB and I'd like another winger because Sancho is becoming more and more useless.
 
Bestietom said:
A new goalkeeper

2 Centre backs---Get Rid of Maguire and Lindelof

2 Midfielders------Get rid of McTominay and Van de Beek

A centre forward
6 Players
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Have to throw in RB too buy totally agree these are the key positions,in fact we also need a backup ST too so that's 8 players
 
Bojan Djordjic said:
Anytime I or others say that we should be targeting younger players than Kane, I see people screaming that its absurd that some people think a 30 year old is "past it" and "look at Lewandowski" etc etc. But the argument for not buying Kane or Benzema for one year is much more linked to the squad building effects than any knock on the players capability to play past 30. For example, in the last couple of years we've bought/signed Varane, Casemiro and Eriksen whom are all on big contracts and already we need to upgrade Eriksen in midfield and Varane can't stay fit so the weaknesses in this strategy are already apparent. It's just not sustainable to be doing business like this especially when there are so many missing parts but if we sign Kane for big money, we will spend another two or three windows filling the other needs that we have and by then all these 30+'s will be well past it.

It really annoys me that we can't commit to a proper rebuild besides darting around like a cat after a laser at the latest quick fix that becomes available in the market. We've been doing it for years now with Zlatan, Cavani, Ronaldo, Eriksen, Casemiro, Varane - all good/great players but the wrong players to be buying in the middle of a rebuild when there's a million holes to plug. We need to be buying players that can grow with each other and peak together besides constantly running to stand still. We wasted Pogba's entire peak by not having a balanced team around him and are in danger of doing the same for the likes of Bruno, Shaw and Rashford too.
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We can't commit to proper clearout and rebuild because of the shithouses who run us
 
Going into fixtures with Lindelof and Maguire as our options gives me heart palpitations

we need another CB

on top of our main priority which should be CF

and then CM

every other position is secondary to those 3
 
CF - Kane or similar starter
GK - Costa
CM - Kokcu or similar potential starter
DM - Lavia or similar young backup player
CB - Kim

And as minimum sell/release Henderson, Telles, Jones, Tuanzebe, Maguire, Williams, van de Beek, Sabitzer, Elanga, Weghorst
 
Priority:
CF, CM, CB, GK

secondary:
RB, backup DM, backup CF, backup CM

suggestion:
Hojlund (60m), Kokcu (25m), Kim Min-Jae (50m), Costa (60-75m)

Frimpong (40m), Lavia/K.Thuram (40m), M.Thuram (free)
 
Striker, CM and goalkeeper for our starting eleven would improve us so much.

I’d also like another CM and a CB for rotation. I’m ok with our right backs, they’re far from our biggest problem and we have more pressing needs.

Departures should be Henderson, Maguire, De Gea, McT and obviously Tuanzebe, Bailly, Telles, Elanga etc. I’d keep Fred but Ten Hag obviously isn’t keen so move him on. Don’t sign Sabitzer or Weghorst. Keep Martial and Sancho another season to see if they can stay fit and find form.

A lot of churn and probably not realistic.
 
Onerealunited said:
Honest, ideally in the medium term we should onlt keep following 10 players and get new players for remaining positions

GK:
RB:
CB: Varane
CB: Martinez
LB: Shaw
DM: Casemiro
CM: Eriksen
AM: Bruno
RW: Antony, Amad
CF
LW: Rashford, Garnacho
Click to expand...

Ralf is that you?
 
Onerealunited said:
Honest, ideally in the medium term we should onlt keep following 10 players and get new players for remaining positions

GK:
RB:
CB: Varane
CB: Martinez
LB: Shaw
DM: Casemiro
CM: Eriksen
AM: Bruno
RW: Antony, Amad
CF
LW: Rashford, Garnacho
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I'd add the backup defenders:

GK: GK1, GK2
RB: RB, Dalot/WanBissaka
CB: Varane, RCB
CB: Martinez, Lindelof (Shaw)
LB: Shaw, Malacia
DM: Casemiro, DM2
CM: CM1, Eriksen, CM3
AM: Bruno, Eriksen
RW: Antony, Amad
CF: ST1, ST2
LW: Rashford, Garnacho

9 players, doable in 2 summers if we're really on the ball. Backup striker, DM2, and GK2 can all be fairly cheap signings if we're clever, leaving 6 big signings, so 3 this summer (ST, CM1, RCB) and then after one more year of De Gea (competing with the backup we've signed), the loser of the Dalot/Wan-Bissaka race and Fred, those 3 spots get upgraded in 2024.
 
NoPace said:
I'd add the backup defenders:

GK: GK1, GK2
RB: RB, Dalot/WanBissaka
CB: Varane, RCB
CB: Martinez, Lindelof (Shaw)
LB: Shaw, Malacia
DM: Casemiro, DM2
CM: CM1, Eriksen, CM3
AM: Bruno, Eriksen
RW: Antony, Amad
CF: ST1, ST2
LW: Rashford, Garnacho

9 players, doable in 2 summers if we're really on the ball. Backup striker, DM2, and GK2 can all be fairly cheap signings if we're clever, leaving 6 big signings, so 3 this summer (ST, CM1, RCB) and then after one more year of De Gea (competing with the backup we've signed), the loser of the Dalot/Wan-Bissaka race and Fred, those 3 spots get upgraded in 2024.
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I could do with this. Would really intresse the quality and make us compete for the title
 
Give me that set piece coach (Gianni Vio) that Spurs just sacked along with their back room team. He’s outstanding and who knows where they would be in the table without him.
Improving our woeful set pieces is such low hanging fruit that it’s unfathomable how it hasn’t been addressed.
 
I think we need to address our inability to score enough PL goals. In the last 10 seasons we’ve only scored over 70 PL goals once and that was when Ole came second with 73 goals, since we last won the title with 86 goals under Fergie, the average is probably 59 goals with a low of 49 under LVG. That’s just over 1.5 goals per game and your never wining or competing for a league with those stats.

This season 47 goals in 30 games, average 1.56, no games with 4 or more goals scored. We are not ruthless enough, we don’t score enough goals from Midfield and from defence and our front 5/6 squad options do not score nearly enough goals.

What United Need This Summer ;
1. New Owners so money is not an issue!
2. New GK - D Livakovic (No Brainer Buy out £10m and good with his feet)
3. New contracts for Shaw, AWB and Rashford they’ve earnt them, even De Gea I would let go if he doesn’t sign £150-200k per week contract and this would be 2+1 contract however I would still buy J Frimpong and have 5 Full backs as Dalot can play in multiple positions.
4. We need goals and this our priority especially in PL for that reason we can’t really take to many chances, sign Harry Kane and James Maddison he’ll be available this summer.
5. Forget Macalister sign Moses Caciedo, let Amad and IQbal go on loan to Brighton to sweeten the deal but we must sign him.
6. Make sure we roll out the red carpet for K Min Jae, tell him he’ll be the new JSP of United and he’ll be a starter as Varane is always injured, we will start him first game of the PL season.
7. Finally we need another goal threat someone whose versatile and can play false 9, number 10 and number 8, we should go sign Mohamed Kudas, ETH knows him, he’s got goals in him and works hard for the team.
8. If SJ buys United, I’ll take the Neymar Vanity signing and he’ll start at 10 with Bruno dropped back to number 8 or over on the right wing.

Summary
Incoming(8) ; (GK) D Livakovic £10m, (RWB)J Frimpong £30m, (CB) K Min Jae £40m, (CM) M Caciedo £80m, J Maddison(8/10) £45M, M Kudas(False9/10) £45m,
H Kane (9) £80-100m , Neymar (10) £Free (Convenient Qatar deal) = Total spend £330-350m

Outgoing(10) ; P Jones, A Tuanzebe, both released, H Maguire £40m(PSG), E Bailey £5M, A Telles £10m, B Williams £5m, D Henderson £25M, A Elanga £15m, S Mctominay £40m, M Greenwood £25m
A Diallo loan, F Pellistri loan, Hanibal loan = Total sales £150-165m
Net spend £175m-200m

United Squad 23/24
GK (3) ; D De Gea, *D Livakovic,
T Heaton(HG)
Defenders(9); AWB(HG), D Dalot,
L Shaw(HG), T Mallacia, *KMJ, R Varane,
L Martinez, V Lindelof ,* J Frimpong (HG)
Midfield (7) ; Casemeiro, Bruno, Fred, *Caciedo, C Eriksen, *J Maddison(HG), K Mainoo(HG)
Attackers (7); Rashford (HG), J Sancho (HG), *H Kane(HG), A Garnaucho (HG), Antony, A Martial, *M Kudas

We won’t be able to sell Martial but I could see us finally having two teams and a squad that would be fine even if we suffer 3 or 4 serious injuries. Plus this squad got 80-90PL goals in it.
 
Bojan Djordjic said:
Give me that set piece coach (Gianni Vio) that Spurs just sacked along with their back room team. He’s outstanding and who knows where they would be in the table without him.
Improving our woeful set pieces is such low hanging fruit that it’s unfathomable how it hasn’t been addressed.
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He's confirmed to be staying on Ryan Mason's staff. I'm not sure whether or not he'll be retained with the new manager. Has a superb record though.
 
SparkedIntoLife said:
He's confirmed to be staying on Ryan Mason's staff. I'm not sure whether or not he'll be retained with the new manager. Has a superb record though.
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Tottenham have the highest number of set piece goals in the league (14), six more than their set piece total for the entirety of last season. United have the fewest at 4. How many tight games could we have won or drew if we had another ten goals from set pieces. It's such an own goal that this hasn't been addressed by successive managers (OGS brought in someone but RR converted them to a general coach) especially as he would cost relative peanuts compared to any player that would give you that many goals.
 
Bojan Djordjic said:
Tottenham have the highest number of set piece goals in the league (14), six more than their set piece total for the entirety of last season. United have the fewest at 4. How many tight games could we have won or drew if we had another ten goals from set pieces. It's such an own goal that this hasn't been addressed by successive managers (OGS brought in someone but RR converted them to a general coach) especially as he would cost relative peanuts compared to any player that would give you that many goals.
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I totally agree. Specialist coaches of this nature seem to be common in American sports but top football clubs seem to be late adopters. Eric Ramsay was always a more general coach back at Chelsea so I’ve no clue why Ole brought him in for set pieces.
 
Assuming vast resources are made available or we're stuck with the Glazers for another season, our first priority by light years is a proven striker. We can debate Kane v Osimhen v Hojland all we want, but it has to be a proven top striker to take us from a respectable third place club to a proper PL contending club. If we load the squad with new RBs, a new GK and a backup for Casemiro and not a proper 9, we remain a respectable third place club.
 
daba said:
If people had to choose, would you prefer to go all out for someone like Osimhen or Kane for the ST position (whatever your personal preference is), or opt for a cheaper, less proven option (like Hojland) and have the funds to get a new GK like Costa or Maignan too?
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Personally I think we can do both if we do what has been important for ages but never done properly in a very long time here and that is sell players and raise funds like we always seem to see leading up into the summer in newspaper reports of culls....and never happens.

We really should be able to raise £100-200m in sales this summer if we are properly proactive and that in itself buts both positions without a net spend
 
Kag said:
A goalkeeper. De Gea to go.

A right back. Wan-Bissaka to go.

A centre half. Maguire to go.

Two central midfielders. McTominay to go.

A striker.

Six players. The club hasn’t got the foresight, stomach or funds for it, sadly.
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Some people are turning just on recent performances, just as they did when Dalot was having a run of form.....buts its always been beyond me why so many seem to want us to keep Dalot over Bissaka. Both have glaring weaknesses of course.....but Bissaka is so good one v one, people talk of DAlot as as attacking full back, apart from running with the ball, he is no better than Bissaka....there are so many better attackign full backs in Europe than Dalot, there areny many better than Bissaka at performing a role against a talent....such as Mitouma in the game just gone
 
Rampant Red Rodriguez said:
We need, to trim the squad and get shot of players who just can't cut the mustard. We need to be brave enough to sell players and get some money back for them, offer clubs incentives to take the players on big and long contracts.
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I dont agree with the very last part of what you write here, hard to shift with wages, but we seem to under value our players values in a transfer market where you barely see a decent signing that isnt for good money.

But I totally agree with the main sentiment, we need to move on several plaeyrs who have never looked like having a big future here really over any given period of time and also several who simply havent performed well enough over several seasons really to be worthy of the shirt, some just simply are not the standard required performance wise on Manchester Untied players....yet the majority of them have decent to good value in a transfer market.

That needs to be done on a net spend if we are able to get anywhere near what ralistically we need to do to be challengin gfor the major trophies
 
golden_blunder said:
Going into fixtures with Lindelof and Maguire as our options gives me heart palpitations

we need another CB

on top of our main priority which should be CF

and then CM

every other position is secondary to those 3
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Completely agree, but also important is us managing to sell players, as though secondary, we do need other sigings or we are still a undoubtedly short in my mind at least of moving from cl place contenders to premiership and cl contenders
 
jesperjaap said:
Some people are turning just on recent performances, just as they did when Dalot was having a run of form.....buts its always been beyond me why so many seem to want us to keep Dalot over Bissaka. Both have glaring weaknesses of course.....but Bissaka is so good one v one, people talk of DAlot as as attacking full back, apart from running with the ball, he is no better than Bissaka....there are so many better attackign full backs in Europe than Dalot, there areny many better than Bissaka at performing a role against a talent....such as Mitouma in the game just gone
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Good for them. I don’t do that.

Dalot is a more suitable back up than Wan-Bissaka in a squad aiming to take a tilt at top honours.

He is better suited stylistically and able to play in other positions. That’s why Ten Hag will offload Wan-Bissaka before him.
 
Kag said:
Good for them. I don’t do that.

Dalot is a more suitable back up than Wan-Bissaka in a squad aiming to take a tilt at top honours.

He is better suited stylistically and able to play in other positions. That’s why Ten Hag will offload Wan-Bissaka before him.
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I agree. AWB is going through a purple patch and we should sell him while his stock is high. His technical limitations will always be an issue in the future if we have aspirations to dominate possession.
 
Bojan Djordjic said:
I agree. AWB is going through a purple patch and we should sell him while his stock is high. His technical limitations will always be an issue in the future if we have aspirations to dominate possession.
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The problem with that is we will have the same difficulties selling him as we did last summer. Teams lower down the table don't want to cough up a decent transfer fee because his current contract at United would make him one of their highest earners. If we're getting £10-15m bids for Wan-Bissaka again, how far will that go for us realistically?

It's probably not even worth the hassle given he's a homegrown player, and any funds we might have to source a replacement will be hoovered up by getting a striker, midfielder and (hopefully) goalkeeper in.
 
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