What do we still need? Aka The never ending story

A creative CM is a must ahead of someone like Lavia imo. Lavia makes sense along with a conductor type CM.
 
croadyman said:
We shouldn't have to make do due to those leeching owners it utterly stinks
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It is entirely normal for clubs to make due with limitations in the transfer window. Nobody can just address every need in 1 window and spend massive amounts regularly, part of the business is being smart with your money and prioritizing and timing your squad building so that when you complete your side, your team hits its peak. Glazers or no Glazers, we wouldn't be able to buy a top CM, top ST and top GK in the same window, as that's a 300m window.
 
bosnian_red said:
It is entirely normal for clubs to make due with limitations in the transfer window. Nobody can just address every need in 1 window and spend massive amounts regularly, part of the business is being smart with your money and prioritizing and timing your squad building so that when you complete your side, your team hits its peak. Glazers or no Glazers, we wouldn't be able to buy a top CM, top ST and top GK in the same window, as that's a 300m window.
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This team needs a bare minimum of 3 players
 
Adnan said:
A creative CM is a must ahead of someone like Lavia imo. Lavia makes sense along with a conductor type CM.
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I see Kokcü, Le Fee- any other outstanding options?

Kenneth Taylor seems to have nearly matched Kokcüs stride this year but I don’t know if I’d want us to keep picking at Ajax unless there was a real sure thing there.
 
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Adnan said:
It doesn't really matter who's on the bench because having a strong first 11 will take care of the bench. The most important thing is having a strong first 11, first and foremost. We can't effectively build play from the back with our starting players, so improving on those players by raising the technical level in the first 11 is of paramount importance.

The width will be provided by the system due to raising the technical level at the back, which will allow the team to play through the thirds and play in a high-line, which in-turn will allow us to overload the opponent's defensive third and have several players rotating positions on the right who will be able to provide width. So there will be crosses into the box, cut backs, through balls etc due to playing the game in the opponent's half, which will open up numerous attacking combinations due to the volume of players committed in the attacking third.

We can't do the above but our rivals can, hence those rivals have been successful at implementing a proactive attacking play style. And that's what we need to work towards imo.
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It doesn’t matter whose on the bench, right now Fodden, Mahrez, Alvaro, Walker, Laport all squad players walk into our first 11.

When players who you call your starting 11 don’t perform like Casemeiro recently or Varane gets injured you need a suitable replacement who understand the system and want to play week in week out so they want to compete and this makes the squad improve. The idea of a 19/20 year old playing at the heart of the defence instead of Varane or KMJ who will be available at the half the cost is madness, unproven in PL still growing and developing into a top class CB, Kim Min Jae is the man for us and will relegate R Varane to 3rd Choice. I do like the idea of Caciedo becoming our J Timber style player though and he should be the second must have name on the transfer list after V Osimhen.

Don’t take my word for it, listen to what ETH has said on numerous occasions, the club needs 2 international players for every position. The system that you discuss, he was able to implement at Ajax, because the league had lots of week teams, they didn’t have a Bouremouth who were nailed on to go down at Xmas get bought by a billionaire and then spend £60-70m in a January window to improve out of site.

The PL is unforgiving and to Implement his version of 4-1-2-3 in the PL which becomes more like 3-2-2-3 in possession trying to pin the opposite team into their own half with lots of rotation, you need high energy as you need to dominate the ball and especially turn overs, you can’t have a player like Antony or Sancho in the starting 11 as they don’t offer the stats so you need to be ruthless in chances created, which means you need more contributions of goals, more goals from the bench when players are tired to enforce that early domination.
 
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If it means that we'll get a striker, 2 midfielders and a CB for the squad instead of Maguire that can give some peace and quiet to the back 5 - I'm willing to postpone the plans for a new GK and RB this summer.
 
I'd be tempted to just sign a stop gap striker and use the chunk of the budget to just sort out our inability to handle pressure and retain the ball. We are just so bad it its infuriating


Costa - 65m
Geertruida - 30m
Kim - 43m
Caicedo (or Kovacic + Lavia) - 80m
Thuram - free


Rashford
Sancho Bruno Antony
Caicedo Casemiro
Shaw Martinez Kim Geertruida
Costa
​


Took the words out of my mouth. We can get Kane on a free next year as the final piece
 
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The Irish Connection said:
Oh I agree there. But a top striker and Caicedo are the most important. We need around 5 in altogether I reckon.
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Yeah would say need a total of 7 across first XI and squad in next two windows,however definitely won't happen without Jassim buying the club
 
We need a goalkeeper, striker, midfielder and defender.

May need 2 midfield players actually, depending on who stays and goes.

Of course, we need the cash to get all these players....
 
Jazz said:
We need a goalkeeper, striker, midfielder and defender.

May need 2 midfield players actually, depending on who stays and goes.

Of course, we need the cash to get all these players....
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We definitely need two midfield players,one who is capable of playing as a 6 or 8 and the other a progressive playmaking CM
 
I'll accept the hate and say we're still a manager and a few signings away of winning anything meaningful.(god bless this be a jinx)

I might be a bit hater-ish, but still think we need 6-7 players for the starting 11 to be anywhere close to the EPL or UCL.
 
theballisround said:
I might be a bit hater-ish, but still think we need 6-7 players for the starting 11 to be anywhere close to the EPL or UCL.
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It's not hating, it's a very reasonable point which I agree with. Seen a fair few fans get caught up in the idea we're 1-2 players away from challenging based on how this season has gone. We could easily slip back to 6th-7th place if big improvements aren't made.
theballisround said:
we're still a manager
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Disagree with this though. Ten Hag needs the players and time before we can truly judge him. So far, with a likely top 4 finish and maximising a bunch of misfit players, I'd say he's done a good job.
 
Addressing everything while being semi realistic and forward thinking would look something like this:
  1. Osimhen/Kane
  2. Diogo Costa
  3. Lavia
  4. Kokcu
  5. Vanderson
  6. Bella Kotchap
  7. Backup gk (livakovic?)
Out
  • Henderson
  • De Gea
  • Wan Bissaka
  • Maguire
  • Jones
  • Tuanzebe
  • Bailly
  • Telles
  • Williams
  • McTominay
  • Van de Beek
  • Sabitzer
  • Weghorst
  • Elanga
  • Greenwood
  • Pellistri loan
Leave us with:
Diogo Costa, livakovic, Heaton
Vanderson, Dalot
Varane, Martinez, Lindelof, Bella Kotchap
Shaw, Malacia
Casemiro, Lavia
Eriksen, Kokcu
Bruno, Sancho, Fred
Antony, Amad
Rashford, Garnacho
Osimhen, Martial

Squad of 24. Alvaro Fernandez, Mainoo to play some part as well. Let's us have the right type of player as cover in every position... Arguably just CB you could argue in favor of a LCB instead of Bella kotchap, but not sure who is good and left footed.
 
bosnian_red said:
Lavia can learn off both Eriksen and casemiro and cover for both depending on the game. He's pretty press resistant, loads of talent and is a must buy for us IMO. Focus bulk of the funds up top. Next summer focus funds on GK and CM.
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bosnian_red said:
It is entirely normal for clubs to make due with limitations in the transfer window. Nobody can just address every need in 1 window and spend massive amounts regularly, part of the business is being smart with your money and prioritizing and timing your squad building so that when you complete your side, your team hits its peak. Glazers or no Glazers, we wouldn't be able to buy a top CM, top ST and top GK in the same window, as that's a 300m window.
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Our needs go beyond those three signings, though. Making signings in those three positions is the minimum requirement if we hope to even get close to competing for the top prizes next season. We might have to make some concessions on our top targets in one or two of those positions to make that happen, but it absolutely has to happen.

I'd also do the complete opposite and primarily focus the funds on the goalkeeper and midfield. There's no way I'm watching another season of De Gea in goal and I'm fed up of watching our midfield get dominated by the likes of Brighton and Sevilla. We need to learn how to control games and that can't happen until we invest in those areas. It would go some way to improving our away record and also prevent us getting completely shown up in many of the big games as we have this season.

Get a younger striker in to compete with Martial for next season and then look to get Kane on a free next summer if we can't sign our top striker target this summer.
 
CM10 said:
Our needs go beyond those three signings, though. Making signings in those three positions is the minimum requirement if we hope to even get close to competing for the top prizes next season. We might have to make some concessions on our top targets in one or two of those positions to make that happen, but it absolutely has to happen.

I'd also do the complete opposite and primarily focus the funds on the goalkeeper and midfield. There's no way I'm watching another season of De Gea in goal and I'm fed up of watching our midfield get dominated by the likes of Brighton and Sevilla. We need to learn how to control games and that can't happen until we invest in those areas. It would go some way to improving our away record and also prevent us getting completely shown up in many of the big games as we have this season.

Get a younger striker in to compete with Martial for next season and then look to get Kane on a free next summer if we can't sign our top striker target this summer.
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I think last night was the last straw for me. Its an unpopular opinion but At this point I will prioritise signing players that will elevate our ball retention over signing a striker. I'm just fed up with seeing us lose control and choking under pressure. Let signing a striker be the final piece
 
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CM10 said:
Our needs go beyond those three signings, though. Making signings in those three positions is the minimum requirement if we hope to even get close to competing for the top prizes next season. We might have to make some concessions on our top targets in one or two of those positions to make that happen, but it absolutely has to happen.

I'd also do the complete opposite and primarily focus the funds on the goalkeeper and midfield. There's no way I'm watching another season of De Gea in goal and I'm fed up of watching our midfield get dominated by the likes of Brighton and Sevilla. We need to learn how to control games and that can't happen until we invest in those areas. It would go some way to improving our away record and also prevent us getting completely shown up in many of the big games as we have this season.

Get a younger striker in to compete with Martial for next season and then look to get Kane on a free next summer if we can't sign our top striker target this summer.
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It's not a 1 summer project regardless, so it's a question of priorities and what gives us the best chances next season and what can we do the summer after.

Could do:
Lavia, Kokcu, Timber, Diogo Costa this summer, maybe Marcus Thuram on a free, and then to for CF next summer

Or do Kane/Osimhen, Lavia, maybe Vanderson this summer and address CM and GK next summer.

The CF gives us more points next season but our overall play is probably better with the options that address GK and midfield, but likely leave us short of goals. And overall likely leave us in a similar spot. So then it's a question of what is smarter financially or more a sure bet to still get top 4 and compete for trophies again, but this time in CL.

A jump to title winner from this summer alone is only possible with Kane, but would also require us to hit our absolute peak in points, injury record and probably get out of cups early like Arsenal did, and hope City have a down year.
 
bosnian_red said:
It's not a 1 summer project regardless, so it's a question of priorities and what gives us the best chances next season and what can we do the summer after.

Could do:
Lavia, Kokcu, Timber, Diogo Costa this summer, maybe Marcus Thuram on a free, and then to for CF next summer

Or do Kane/Osimhen, Lavia, maybe Vanderson this summer and address CM and GK next summer.

The CF gives us more points next season but our overall play is probably better with the options that address GK and midfield, but likely leave us short of goals. And overall likely leave us in a similar spot. So then it's a question of what is smarter financially or more a sure bet to still get top 4 and compete for trophies again, but this time in CL.

A jump to title winner from this summer alone is only possible with Kane, but would also require us to hit our absolute peak in points, injury record and probably get out of cups early like Arsenal did, and hope City have a down year.
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Kane gives us more goals but the same problems exist in the team. Last night was a good example, we had a 2 goal lead but were unable to protect it because we're fragile when pressed and don't have the players to take the sting out of a game. If we learn to control games we'll create more chances too as a byproduct.

We've spent too long prioritising individuals over the collective and need to move away from that model. As @jamesjimmybyrondean says, it's one thing to get Kane if we're signing him as the final piece of the puzzle, but the reality is we've got a lot to do before we're there.
 
bosnian_red said:
It is entirely normal for clubs to make due with limitations in the transfer window. Nobody can just address every need in 1 window and spend massive amounts regularly, part of the business is being smart with your money and prioritizing and timing your squad building so that when you complete your side, your team hits its peak. Glazers or no Glazers, we wouldn't be able to buy a top CM, top ST and top GK in the same window, as that's a 300m window.
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how the hell is that a 300 million window? You can easily find top options for those 3 spots without spending 100 million on any of them, let alone all 3.
 
CM10 said:
Kane gives us more goals but the same problems exist in the team. Last night was a good example, we had a 2 goal lead but were unable to protect it because we're fragile when pressed and don't have the players to take the sting out of a game. If we learn to control games we'll create more chances too as a byproduct.

We've spent too long prioritising individuals over the collective and need to move away from that model. As @jamesjimmybyrondean says, it's one thing to get Kane if we're signing him as the final piece of the puzzle, but the reality is we've got a lot to do before we're there.
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I agree, but a CF is absolutely key for the system as well. It helps loads in terms of control having a CF who can hold it up to a high level, or makes elite runs to give you easier passing options. The issue is Kanes age and you get into the question of how long can he keep up the elite level, and if it helps us win the title in 24/25 basically which is our earliest realistic chance. So whether we sign others this summer and him on a free in 2024 or sign him now and others in 2024, realistically it's not changing much in regards to a title challenge. It's what will give us more in the mean time, what more do we actually get (a chance at the CL?), if that is worth the difference in cost etc.

We need a striker more than anything, but we also need a GK desperately. To get a dominant team, we need that #8 as well who can control and be press resistant and carry the ball well as well. We won't get them all this summer... So it's about who is available. Kane/Osimhen are possible, Diogo Costa is available, but for CM we are looking more at project types like Lavia and Kokcu rather than the elite guy like Frenkie.
 
FerociousCorgis said:
how the hell is that a 300 million window? You can easily find top options for those 3 spots without spending 100 million on any of them, let alone all 3.
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Good luck finding an elite CF for under 100m... Kolo Muani is nowhere near the required level and they want 100m (euros) ffs. Goncalo Ramos? 100m as well. Osimhen likely 120m. Kane 80m-100m. Diogo Costa is 65m or so, Maignan would be more. Raya is not the level we need and would likely be something like 35m or 40m anyway. We also need to replace Maguire, someone to come in at RB, we need someone like Lavia who is probably 40m, etc. CM I have no idea who we'd go for if we go for a starter level CM, but a younger guy like Kokcu would be cheaper but still 30m or so I'd bet.
But if you are looking at the top targets, that's Kane/Osimhen, Diogo Costa/Maignan, a CM like Frenkie, etc. More realistic is the below which overall is somewhere around 300m. And that's realistic over 2 summers rather than just 1 summer. Even with Qatar in, we won't be able to do all the below this summer due to FFP. So we need to split this up over 2 summers. ST, DM and CB this year and GK, CM and RB next year seems realistic as a net spend duo of roughly 150m each. Other filler signings where needed.

CF - 80m - 120m
GK - 65m
DM - 40m
CM - 30m
RB - 30m
CB - 30m
 
bosnian_red said:
Good luck finding an elite CF for under 100m... Kolo Muani is nowhere near the required level and they want 100m (euros) ffs. Goncalo Ramos? 100m as well. Osimhen likely 120m. Kane 80m-100m. Diogo Costa is 65m or so, Maignan would be more. Raya is not the level we need and would likely be something like 35m or 40m anyway. We also need to replace Maguire, someone to come in at RB, we need someone like Lavia who is probably 40m, etc. CM I have no idea who we'd go for if we go for a starter level CM, but a younger guy like Kokcu would be cheaper but still 30m or so I'd bet.
But if you are looking at the top targets, that's Kane/Osimhen, Diogo Costa/Maignan, a CM like Frenkie, etc. More realistic is the below which overall is somewhere around 300m. And that's realistic over 2 summers rather than just 1 summer. Even with Qatar in, we won't be able to do all the below this summer due to FFP. So we need to split this up over 2 summers. ST, DM and CB this year and GK, CM and RB next year seems realistic as a net spend duo of roughly 150m each. Other filler signings where needed.

CF - 80m - 120m
GK - 65m
DM - 40m
CM - 30m
RB - 30m
CB - 30m
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i mean even if you want to be semantic on what a "top" CF is, you still made my point for me. If we spend 300 million on just those 3 spots we have done a shit job of scouting/identifying targets and especially of negotiating. We can easily scout and find a "top" CF target who isnt already 100 plus million but can lead our line as an every game starter. Find the player who isnt gonna cost 100 million this season but is primed to be that price next season if we were hypothetically interested in him.
 
FerociousCorgis said:
i mean even if you want to be semantic on what a "top" CF is, you still made my point for me. If we spend 300 million on just those 3 spots we have done a shit job of scouting/identifying targets and especially of negotiating. We can easily scout and find a "top" CF target who isnt already 100 plus million but can lead our line as an every game starter. Find the player who isnt gonna cost 100 million this season but is primed to be that price next season if we were hypothetically interested in him.
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Isak could have been that guy yet he was still 75m. For striker, I'm firmly in the pool of just get the guy. You waste tons of money trying and failing with the guys who are gambles. Given our other attackers, we really just need the elite guy to take the next step IMO.

But I was more just saying "can't get a top midfielder, top CF and top GK" as that is 300m. Yes we need to be smarter. Kokcu, lavia, vanderson aren't top players. They have potential and we would be buying them in positions where we can afford those risks. Up top we just need the guy, GK we just need the guy.
 
bosnian_red said:
I agree, but a CF is absolutely key for the system as well. It helps loads in terms of control having a CF who can hold it up to a high level, or makes elite runs to give you easier passing options. The issue is Kanes age and you get into the question of how long can he keep up the elite level, and if it helps us win the title in 24/25 basically which is our earliest realistic chance. So whether we sign others this summer and him on a free in 2024 or sign him now and others in 2024, realistically it's not changing much in regards to a title challenge. It's what will give us more in the mean time, what more do we actually get (a chance at the CL?), if that is worth the difference in cost etc.

We need a striker more than anything, but we also need a GK desperately. To get a dominant team, we need that #8 as well who can control and be press resistant and carry the ball well as well. We won't get them all this summer... So it's about who is available. Kane/Osimhen are possible, Diogo Costa is available, but for CM we are looking more at project types like Lavia and Kokcu rather than the elite guy like Frenkie.
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If Kane is the one we want and Spurs are holding out for £100m that makes the decision for us. There's no point paying a premium like that for a player we can sign for free the following season.

There also has to come a time when we finally sign a younger striker. Van Persie, Falcao, Ibrahimovic, Ighalo, Cavani and Ronaldo have all been short-term signings in the last decade and Kane would be more of the same. It's unsustainable to continue doing that indefinitely. I'd be more than happy for us to sign a player we can develop in the summer in rotation with Martial next season and potentially Kane for the following one.
 
CM10 said:
If Kane is the one we want and Spurs are holding out for £100m that makes the decision for us. There's no point paying a premium like that for a player we can sign for free the following season.

There also has to come a time when we finally sign a younger striker. Van Persie, Falcao, Ibrahimovic, Ighalo, Cavani and Ronaldo have all been short-term signings in the last decade and Kane would be more of the same. It's unsustainable to continue doing that indefinitely. I'd be more than happy for us to sign a player we can develop in the summer in rotation with Martial next season and potentially Kane for the following one.
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Oh i agree. Osimhen is my #1 priority. But I'd also be happy with Kane on a more reasonable fee, or next summer on a free provided we then go big this summer and get Diogo Costa, Lavia, Kokcu, possibly also someone like Timber for CB to replace Maguire and/or Vanderson at RB to replace AWB. Then also get Marcus Thuram on a free, and in 2024 replace Martial with Kane on frees for both.
 
bosnian_red said:
Isak could have been that guy yet he was still 75m. For striker, I'm firmly in the pool of just get the guy. You waste tons of money trying and failing with the guys who are gambles. Given our other attackers, we really just need the elite guy to take the next step IMO.

But I was more just saying "can't get a top midfielder, top CF and top GK" as that is 300m. Yes we need to be smarter. Kokcu, lavia, vanderson aren't top players. They have potential and we would be buying them in positions where we can afford those risks. Up top we just need the guy, GK we just need the guy.
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Yeah CF i can understand splurging. Ill take 2 50 million CMs over 1 100 CM any day of the week though. We need numbers in midfield to completely revamp that part of squad. 300 million should be the bare minimum we spend this window. Net should be less as we have quite a few players we could move on for decent fees, or just fees in general.
 
FerociousCorgis said:
Yeah CF i can understand splurging. Ill take 2 50 million CMs over 1 100 CM any day of the week though. We need numbers in midfield to completely revamp that part of squad. 300 million should be the bare minimum we spend this window. Net should be less as we have quite a few players we could move on for decent fees, or just fees in general.
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That amount is just unrealistic though. At a stretch we can hope for 200m which is still a massive window. Don't let Chelsea's bullshit change what is realistic or not. Setting yourself up for failure.
 
bosnian_red said:
That amount is just unrealistic though. At a stretch we can hope for 200m which is still a massive window. Don't let Chelsea's bullshit change what is realistic or not. Setting yourself up for failure.
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should and what will happen are two very different things. With competent ownership/transfer department we couldve easily had a 300 million spent window. Instead who knows.
 
I'm not having the suggestion that we need a new manager. Maybe ETH will pull an Ole and we'll have to sack him, but based on what we know right now we have the right manager.

To state the obvious, in order:
  • A striker
  • An upgrade on Eriksen
  • Cover for Casemiro
  • A backup striker
  • A replacement for Maguire as fourth CB

I seriously doubt we're going to bring in more than 5 new players (probably more like only 3, but possibly 4), even considering some of the likely exits such as Maguire and VDB.
 
2 CM
Experience and proven athletes capable of competing for a starting berth. Our biggest problem area, you don’t keep losing the midfield and continue saying it’s all sorted. At least one of our starters in CM is a liability and I don’t want to point fingers.
CB
Competition for Varane is needed. Fine, he is class according to everyone but we need another player to tackle the drop off and push him for a spot.
2 Strikers
This is the only position I think we need to bring in an understudy in addition to an established striker.
Forward
The current levels of Sancho/Antony/Amad/Pellistri/Garnacho is not yet at the mature stage. We do need to bring in a guy that will create competition in all 3( LWF, RWF and AM). A Nkunku type and let’s be honest, these are the most common footballers going. Strange to see our wide forwards can’t play beyond one of these, yet we expect to compete tactically against the best teams out their. They should all be able to play in at least 2 of those 3 positions.
Goalkeeper
Competition for DDG, hopefully he gets to lose his position and we end up with a top class goalkeeper.

Conclusion
I don’t believe signing backup players will develop us, we have enough backup and squad players. Signing competition or upgrade is way to go.
The inconsistent in our performance is due to the lack of competition in central positions in this squad. Our key players have been the most inconsistent but we all love them and can see no wrong in their performances.
Casemiro has been awful since his suspensions started, Eriksen is getting physically done by everyone and Bruno is being fitted in the team to play in games everyone can see the manager does not see him suited to what he wants to do but he will play him because he lacks an option.
Varane and Martinez have had at least 3 awful performances in the last 1.5 month but we won’t say because no one is trusted to step in for them. The less said of Martial and his unavailability the better, so one can remain hopeful. There is no threat of these guys losing their positions or benched and we won’t get consistency till that changes. Yet no one is allowed to call them out when the truth is staring right at us. Let’s go an sign Kane and believe his goals will stop this team handing over control to the oppositions. We played Everton at Old Trafford and make them look bad but Newcastle at Goodison made their fans realise they need to be relegated, these are the standards required for United. The bottom clubs are better now and have players capable of playing at mid table, some of them were competing for trophies in other leagues, so we have to bring it in every game and dominate them or else we will never reach the summit we want, just remain a cup team.
 
KikiDaKats said:
2 CM
Experience and proven athletes capable of competing for a starting berth. Our biggest problem area, you don’t keep losing the midfield and continue saying it’s all sorted. At least one of our starters in CM is a liability and I don’t want to point fingers.
CB
Competition for Varane is needed. Fine, he is class according to everyone but we need another player to tackle the drop off and push him for a spot.
2 Strikers
This is the only position I think we need to bring in an understudy in addition to an established striker.
Forward
The current levels of Sancho/Antony/Amad/Pellistri/Garnacho is not yet at the mature stage. We do need to bring in a guy that will create competition in all 3( LWF, RWF and AM). A Nkunku type and let’s be honest, these are the most common footballers going. Strange to see our wide forwards can’t play beyond one of these, yet we expect to compete tactically against the best teams out their. They should all be able to play in at least 2 of those 3 positions.
Goalkeeper
Competition for DDG, hopefully he gets to lose his position and we end up with a top class goalkeeper.

Conclusion
I don’t believe signing backup players will develop us, we have enough backup and squad players. Signing competition or upgrade is way to go.
The inconsistent in our performance is due to the lack of competition in central positions in this squad. Our key players have been the most inconsistent but we all love them and can see no wrong in their performances.
Casemiro has been awful since his suspensions started, Eriksen is getting physically done by everyone and Bruno is being fitted in the team to play in games everyone can see the manager does not see him suited to what he wants to do but he will play him because he lacks an option.
Varane and Martinez have had at least 3 awful performances in the last 1.5 month but we won’t say because no one is trusted to step in for them. The less said of Martial and his unavailability the better, so one can remain hopeful. There is no threat of these guys losing their positions or benched and we won’t get consistency till that changes. Yet no one is allowed to call them out when the truth is staring right at us. Let’s go an sign Kane and believe his goals will stop this team handing over control to the oppositions. We played Everton at Old Trafford and make them look bad but Newcastle at Goodison made their fans realise they need to be relegated, these are the standards required for United. The bottom clubs are better now and have players capable of playing at mid table, some of them were competing for trophies in other leagues, so we have to bring it in every game and dominate them or else we will never reach the summit we want, just remain a cup team.
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I'm not sure direct competition for Varane is needed when we have Lindelof, who when untethered from Maguire is more than decent. But we do need an upgrade on Maguire, and if it turns out that that upgrade can challenge Varane, all the better.

The forward line, apart from striker, is the area where we actually need to worry about last. Rashford is a forward, not a striker and it's hard to argue that he needs to be upgraded on. Garnacho is a sensational prospect. Antony is improving all the time. Sancho is improving at a slower rate, but whether you like him or not, he's not going anywhere. Amad is a potential revelation if given the chance. If there's a low-cost punt to be taken, fine, but we're in decent shape with our non-striker front line players. They just need to improve.

We should always be on the lookout for a decent backup keeper, as Heaton is 37 years old now.
 
Woziak said:
It doesn’t matter whose on the bench, right now Fodden, Mahrez, Alvaro, Walker, Laport all squad players walk into our first 11.

When players who you call your starting 11 don’t perform like Casemeiro recently or Varane gets injured you need a suitable replacement who understand the system and want to play week in week out so they want to compete and this makes the squad improve. The idea of a 19/20 year old playing at the heart of the defence instead of Varane or KMJ who will be available at the half the cost is madness, unproven in PL still growing and developing into a top class CB, Kim Min Jae is the man for us and will relegate R Varane to 3rd Choice. I do like the idea of Caciedo becoming our J Timber style player though and he should be the second must have name on the transfer list after V Osimhen.

Don’t take my word for it, listen to what ETH has said on numerous occasions, the club needs 2 international players for every position. The system that you discuss, he was able to implement at Ajax, because the league had lots of week teams, they didn’t have a Bouremouth who were nailed on to go down at Xmas get bought by a billionaire and then spend £60-70m in a January window to improve out of site.

The PL is unforgiving and to Implement his version of 4-1-2-3 in the PL which becomes more like 3-2-2-3 in possession trying to pin the opposite team into their own half with lots of rotation, you need high energy as you need to dominate the ball and especially turn overs, you can’t have a player like Antony or Sancho in the starting 11 as they don’t offer the stats so you need to be ruthless in chances created, which means you need more contributions of goals, more goals from the bench when players are tired to enforce that early domination.
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It's exactly why City have been successful by focusing on improving the first 11, which has created competition for places and the likes of Mahrez, Alvarez, Walker etc have become good rotation options. But they've improved the first 11 by feeding the idea of their head coach and signing players who fit into that idea.

When players like Casemiro are out of form or need resting, then Caicedo is switched from his inverted fullback role and is utilised in a deeper central midfield role and Dalot comes off the bench to take up the RB spot. And Antonio Silva at 19/20, has all the attributes to be a very good fit for a team who want to exert, zonal and positional control in possession, and Silva imo has bigger potential than a Kim Min Jae when it comes to evading and resisting pressure against the teams who press aggressively due to Antonio Silva being of a higher technical level. Antonio Silva rotated with Varane would ideally be the better mid to long-term plan for the system to come to fruition imo.

Whether Erik ten Hag wants a big squad or not isn't the question. What he's said on numerous occasions is wanting to buy the correct profile of player that fits into his system. And his system/idea is the same or very similar to the systems at City, Arsenal, Liverpool and Brighton with a few differences between them. So it's not about the weak Dutch league but rather about implementing a system/style of play which is currently dominating the EPL. The two teams currently fighting for the league implement the same system, and positional play first appeared on the world stage via the Dutch league (Rinus Michels/Ernst Happels). And coordinated pressing in a high, mid or low block is said to have taken off at Feyenoord under their former head Coach, Ernst Happels. The idea has been tweaked over the decades but the idea has stood the test of time.

I've been reading your posts in this thread for a while and you've brought up things like United not scoring enough goals in the last 10 years, which I agree with. And that there is the problem that hasn't been rectified in a league which became more technical in the last 10 years with the influx of many deeper thinking head coaches who have brought forth and implemented, proactive attacking ideas, which we haven't been able to adapt to.

So the answer to why we haven't been able to score enough goals or implement a proactive attacking playstyle is very simple imo. The answer isn't to sign two strikers but rather to improve the technical level of the players occupying positions in the defensive third of the pitch, which would allow us to build play more effectively against teams who are adept at pressing high. And if we can resist and evade pressure consistently in the defensive third, we will in-turn be able to sustain pressure in the opponent's half by keeping a high line, compressing the pitch which will open up the potential for us to effectively press high up the pitch with the back 5 supporting the front 5 by closing off the space. And that's how you create a proactive attacking team by having technically strong first phase players and the rest will then follow, where the collective team unit will create chances due to playing the game in the opponent's half.

We need a striker but the rest of the money needs to be spent on raising the technical of the players in the first phase of the build up. Because that's our biggest weakness and has been for a decade. Or else we'll see the same repeated about how the keeper or fullback are saving us due to their saves and tackles, when in reality we can't build up play effectively through the thirds due to the same players, which means we surrender possession frequently and have to defend more than we attack against any decent team who looks to press us high. That then has a knock on effect on the attacking players due to the weak foundations behind them.

 
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lex talionis said:
I'm not sure direct competition for Varane is needed when we have Lindelof, who when untethered from Maguire is more than decent. But we do need an upgrade on Maguire, and if it turns out that that upgrade can challenge Varane, all the better.

The forward line, apart from striker, is the area where we actually need to worry about last. Rashford is a forward, not a striker and it's hard to argue that he needs to be upgraded on. Garnacho is a sensational prospect. Antony is improving all the time. Sancho is improving at a slower rate, but whether you like him or not, he's not going anywhere. Amad is a potential revelation if given the chance. If there's a low-cost punt to be taken, fine, but we're in decent shape with our non-striker front line players. They just need to improve.

We should always be on the lookout for a decent backup keeper, as Heaton is 37 years old now.
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I hate the idea of signing backup players. Back up players are academy responsibility to provide.
Varane need competition he might not be as good as him but he should be a player Varane knows can put his position under threat. Does Lindelof give us that?
There is a reason I did not add Rashford to that list. With these promising youngsters or high potential player, non of them is definitely fully trusted right now. We all hope they will develop or progress as expect but it doesn’t address the now. Against Spurs Antony wasn’t doing well and you look at the bench and can’t trust anyone to come on an make an immediate impact. So what do we do? We move Bruno to solve the problem and some here even suggesting Sancho should’ve been moved to a weak position to address that. Is this same situation changing without address those issues for next season. For me Garnacho and Amad are backup just like Lewis is at City or Harvey Elliot should be at Liverpool.
 
JohnnyLaw said:
I see Kokcü, Le Fee- any other outstanding options?

Kenneth Taylor seems to have nearly matched Kokcüs stride this year but I don’t know if I’d want us to keep picking at Ajax unless there was a real sure thing there.
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Kokcu could represent a good deal due to his low transfer fee and low wages at Feyenoord. I'm not sure about Le Fee, he looks good at dribbling/carrying the ball but I think he's better suited to playing higher up the pitch.

I'm sure there's other options but if we can't get de Jong, then it's very important we look to sign at least someone who has the craft and guile to make plays from a deeper midfield position. And make those plays whilst being pressed.
 
My suggestion for an interesting and hopefully cheap back up to an Osimhen/Kan:. 21 year old Metz striker Georges Mikautadze. For those that want a striker that can dribble and link up play he looks extremely fun.

 
KikiDaKats said:
I hate the idea of signing backup players. Back up players are academy responsibility to provide.
Varane need competition he might not be as good as him but he should be a player Varane knows can put his position under threat. Does Lindelof give us that?
There is a reason I did not add Rashford to that list. With these promising youngsters or high potential player, non of them is definitely fully trusted right now. We all hope they will develop or progress as expect but it doesn’t address the now. Against Spurs Antony wasn’t doing well and you look at the bench and can’t trust anyone to come on an make an immediate impact. So what do we do? We move Bruno to solve the problem and some here even suggesting Sancho should’ve been moved to a weak position to address that. Is this same situation changing without address those issues for next season. For me Garnacho and Amad are backup just like Lewis is at City or Harvey Elliot should be at Liverpool.
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Hard to respond to all that point by point but what I would say to begin with is that we have two clear holes in the starting XI: a 9 and an 8. We have to fill both holes first before strengthening the squad.

We need to be two deep at every position if we want to compete for every trophy. Backup for Casemiro is the highest priority for me, and then a backup striker as it’s obvious as can be that Martial is done, firk in back. For others, a fourth CB to replace Maguire. We’ve got some interesting prospects in midfield positions, but no one that I know of who can step directly in for Casemiro. We have to believe Antony and Sancho will come good.
 
lex talionis said:
Hard to respond to all that point by point but what I would say to begin with is that we have two clear holes in the starting XI: a 9 and an 8. We have to fill both holes first before strengthening the squad.

We need to be two deep at every position if we want to compete for every trophy. Backup for Casemiro is the highest priority for me, and then a backup striker as it’s obvious as can be that Martial is done, firk in back. For others, a fourth CB to replace Maguire. We’ve got some interesting prospects in midfield positions, but no one that I know of who can step directly in for Casemiro. We have to believe Antony and Sancho will come good.
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Agreed with majority of yours.

9 and 8 are just a must. Eriksen won't get stronger next season. Then Casemiro backup, as we're fecked if the guy is not available; and also useful if we want to shut the shop / go super defensive with Case and new guy.

I guess Rashford can also be a striker backup, as he's done extremely well this season. So it's not high priority for me.

Other positions depend on the sale. If both Maguire and Lindelof go, then a new backup CB is important. If AWB/Dalot go, then we need a new main/backup RB. On Gk, it depends on opportunity if we don't extend DDG's contract and a better Gk available on cheap.
 
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