What do we still need? Aka The never ending story

Use Sancho in makeweight with Bellingham??

He can do one at any rate, take Martial, Maguire, DeGea, and McT with him

IMO bare minimum to be competitive next season for top 4

We need a keeper, unless ETH fancies giving Henderson a season
2 cbs (or 1 CB and a utility defender, or maybe LB then Shaw can fill in)
A top striker (a second prospect young striker too to share the strain, pick up cup games etc...)
A top DM to share the load with Casemiro (attacking mid we have plenty especially if Diallo and Mejbri return)
A good level utility midfielder
 
GK
DDG & Henderson end/sell
End butland loan
Heaton stay
Sign a first team keeper & a 2nd/3rd keeper
(Diego Costa)

RB/LB
Shaw, Malacia & Dalot stay
Sell AWB, Williams, Telles
Buy Frimpong / Dumfries

CB
Martinez, Varane, Lindelof stay
Sell Maguire & Bailey end Jones, Tuanzebe
Buy Kim Min Jae or Timber

DM
Casemiro stay
Sell McTominay
Buy Ruben Neves as backup

#8
Eriksen stay
Fred - don’t mind
Buy De Jong (or someone elite at receiving and keeping the ball - an Eriksen upgrade)

#10
Bruno stay
Sancho to provide cover as a last chance due to lack of $$
End Sabitzer loan

LM
Rashford & Garnacho stay
Sancho 3rd choice

RM
Antony stay
Diallo back
Pellistri out on loan

Striker
Martial stay as cover (won’t be able to sell)
End Weghorst loan
Buy - First choice - Kane and
Second choice - a young striker

That’s getting rid of 12 -15 squad players and bringing in 7 or 8, probably needs 3 more windows to do all that business

Decision on Greenwood.
Glazers out.
 
There's what we need and what we can actually do within the realms of reality. I'd agree that we do need a major clear out. We need to shift these continual bottle jobs. I'm sure Erik will have identified the good from the bad.

However, there is the major issue of the ownership which is going to decide what we can and cannot do this summer. If there is no sale agreed within the next 3-4 weeks then forget the summer window. God knows how long a multi-billion dollar deal takes to conclude, but I'd imagine that there will be a considerable timeframe to complete the purchase, let alone have time to devise plans for a squad overhaul. We might be left with what we've got.

Outbound - Ideal Scenario
I've managed to come up with 15 names without even thinking that hard. It won't happen, obviously, but this is who I'd be looking at moving on.
  1. DDG - Last night shows why we need to upgrade. He's past his peak. We can't keep him because of sentimental values alone. Yes, he still makes some great saves, but he cannot pass the ball, brings us under pressure continually and is giving away goals.
  2. Henderson - I don't think he's coming back in from loan and getting the #1 shirt.
  3. Butland - Send back to Palace
  4. Maguire - Best thing for him career and personal life wise (I imagine) would be a move away. He'd still play for most teams in the league, Newcastle and Spurs included.
  5. Lindelof - Probably wants to play elsewhere and get regular minutes.
  6. Jones - End of contract.
  7. Tuanzebe - End of contract.
  8. Fred - Has clearly fallen out of favour.
  9. McT - Not playing enough for someone his age. He'll likely be looking for a move.
  10. Sabitzer - I've not seen too much on a consistent basis to be convinced.
  11. VDB - Cut losses and sell.
  12. Sancho - Not really done it here and it doesn't look like there is enough there to turn it around. He obviously had well documented issues earlier this season, but we need more.
  13. Martial - Made of glass.
  14. Weghorst - Love his attitude but he is not at the level we need.
  15. Greenwood - Terminate contract
Outbound - More Realistic
  1. Henderson - I don't think he's coming back in from loan and getting the #1 shirt.
  2. Butland - Send back to Palace
  3. Lindelof - Probably wants to play elsewhere and get regular minutes.
  4. Jones - End of contract.
  5. Tuanzebe - End of contract.
  6. McT - Not playing enough for someone his age. He'll likely be looking for a move.
  7. Sabitzer - I've not seen too much on a consistent basis to be convinced.
  8. Weghorst - Love his attitude but he is not at the level we need.
  9. Greenwood - Terminate contract
 
Way I see it, we have Varane, Martinez, Shaw, Casemiro, Bruno, Antony and Rashford who currently cut the mustard.

We should focus on recruiting a top quality RB, CDM, Striker and keeper. That hypothetically gives us a class first choice eleven.

While we cant sell them all, we should pretty much listen to offers for any other player in the squad or out on loan. None of them really matter, make a difference or would be missed. As long as we retain 11 or so of them to make up the bodies its a forward step.

The summer after if we recruit another 4/5 top players then we have a core of about 15/16 players who are all good enough to start every week. Then you can have a class core to your second 11 to carry the other half in these cup games etc whilst resting the full 11.

ETH had it right where he said it was probably a 3 season process to get the squad where it needs to be
 
If we get new owners:

Kane 85m
Palhina or MacAllister 75m
Kim Min Jae 40m
Frimpong 35m
Gaya Free

Osimhen will be too expensive and Frenkie is happy at Barca.
 
As long as the future of our club isn’t determined we will see jack shit happening.
 
The most worrying aspect of last nights result is that we really are a million miles away from being able to challenge for the league and Champions League.

We have 15 players potentially up for sale and then in 12 months we'll need to replace Casemiro and Eriksen, then shortly after it will be Bruno.

When you consider that Man City and Arsenal have younger, better teams than us, I don't see us being in contention for the major trophies any time soon.
 
wangyu said:
As long as the future of our club isn’t determined we will see jack shit happening.
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Time isn't on our side for the summer window. The season ends in 5 weeks. Other clubs will be making moves. No doubt the likes of city,Liverpool,Arsenal etc already have some targets lined up.
 
I made this comment earlier in the ETH thread but I think it fits better in here. We need to start using dirtier tactics to manage our deadwood players on high wages.

Take away their first team privileges, their parking spots, etc. Send them down to the U-21s and make it abundantly clear they will not play another game until they find a new club or their contract is up.

Put pressure on them to decide: do I see out my expensive contract at the expense of my career, or do I leave and take a pay cut to continue playing?

No more half measures. That's the only way we'll be able to have a real clearout.
 
thegregster said:
Time isn't on our side for the summer window. The season ends in 5 weeks. Other clubs will be making moves. No doubt the likes of city,Liverpool,Arsenal etc already have some targets lined up.
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Having targets lined up for the summer is something that every well-run club will have taken care of months ago. At this point, I reckon most important transfers are already well underway.
 
I see the core players as such:


Rashford(Garnacho)------Striker(#9)------------Antony(Amad)
-------------------Bruno(Eriksen)----------#8(Eriksen)------------------
------------------------------------Casemiro(#6)-------------------------------
Shaw(Malacia)--------------------------------------------RB(Dalot)------
-------------------Lisandro(Lindelof)-Varane(RCB)-------------------
-------------------------------------GK(GK2)-------------------------------------

which is a core of 21 players, which feels about right, then depth guys and youngsters. I'm thinking Pellistri or Martial (if he can't be shifted, let him stick around he's useful when healthy) as the 7th attacker, a 6th midfielder is needed, so maybe one more year of Fred, McTominay or a free signing type like Kamada.

So, 8 signings this summer. Expensive striker, goalkeeper, RB and #8. Need to be clever at backup striker, RCB, backup keeper and the backup for Casemiro.

More realistically but probably still implausible , it's 6 signings, we risk backup keeper on Heaton, Butland or another free type and maybe no backup striker, just Martial and Rashford playing there a lot and Sancho gets another year at LW. And since the #6 and #8 can be one player, it's really just 5.

If we shift Maguire, McTominay and Wan-Bissaka to Prem teams for good money, which seems plausible, that would raise enough money for the RB, RCB and backup #6 signings, and we're just paying for the striker, keeper and #8, which seems like a normal summer. 2 huge signings (#8, striker) and a medium sized one in the keeper. 180M net spend or so.

So, like this:

Striker: Ramos
#8/6: Caicedo
RB: Frimpong
GK: No idea
RCB: No idea
 
Need to get rid of Maguire, finally get rid of DDG. The guy can’t even kick a ball. Need a much better GK who will improve our playing out from the back. Much better defensive depth. Another CM and a main ST. I can see most of our budget being spent on a striker though. Think we’ll splash at least 70m or over on a striker. So we need to bring in some funds from sales. I think it’s gonna take another 2 windows to fix this team.
 
Borussia Teeth said:
I still believe we're only a starting striker and starting cm away from competing for the title.
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We are much, much further away. 6-7 successful signings might do it: striker and backup striker (preferably one of them capable of playing wide, too), Eriksen upgrade, Casemiro cover, CB cover, right back, goalkeeper.

That's seven. And we need to get every single one of them right. Based on our track record with recruitment, we can get all this done within 7-10 years.
 
golden_blunder said:
Because we’d leave our squad short
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It doesn’t though because only 6 of the players mentioned actually make any meaningful contribution and they are all 2nd or 3rd choice anyway. Bring in 4-5 good players, promote a couple and the squad will be better off. We don’t need big quantities of dross, that’s why we are where we are.
 
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The biggest need by far is a striker, and the smart money move would be Kane. 80 million and you're basically guaranteeing 25 goals a season from your striker position for the next 3 or 4 seasons. Imagine what our position in the table would look like if we had Kane's 23 goals from our striker position right now- we have 5 league goals from our strikers this season.

Biggest need after that is a midfielder. Forget about Bellingham, there's no chance he picks us over Madrid or City. Forget about De Jong, he's not gonna leave Barca. Mac Allister is a realistic target.

If we can replace De Gea with Costa this summer, I'm all for it. If we can get Frimpong or Timber, or both, I'm all for it.

I'm not as optimistic about a summer clearout as some of you, because that entails finding clubs that are actually willing to pay for the players we no longer want.
 
Todd said:
The biggest need by far is a striker, and the smart money move would be Kane. 80 million and you're basically guaranteeing 25 goals a season from your striker position for the next 3 or 4 seasons. Imagine what our position in the table would look like if we had Kane's 23 goals from our striker position right now- we have 5 league goals from our strikers this season.

Biggest need after that is a midfielder. Forget about Bellingham, there's no chance he picks us over Madrid or City. Forget about De Jong, he's not gonna leave Barca. Mac Allister is a realistic target.

If we can replace De Gea with Costa this summer, I'm all for it. If we can get Frimpong or Timber, or both, I'm all for it.

I'm not as optimistic about a summer clearout as some of you, because that entails finding clubs that are actually willing to pay for the players we no longer want.
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Nothing against Kane (he'd improve this team tremendously), but what are our scouts doing? What we should be doing with our limited resources is looking for the next Harry Kane.
 
Todd said:
The biggest need by far is a striker, and the smart money move would be Kane. 80 million and you're basically guaranteeing 25 goals a season from your striker position for the next 3 or 4 seasons. Imagine what our position in the table would look like if we had Kane's 23 goals from our striker position right now- we have 5 league goals from our strikers this season.

Biggest need after that is a midfielder. Forget about Bellingham, there's no chance he picks us over Madrid or City. Forget about De Jong, he's not gonna leave Barca. Mac Allister is a realistic target.

If we can replace De Gea with Costa this summer, I'm all for it. If we can get Frimpong or Timber, or both, I'm all for it.

I'm not as optimistic about a summer clearout as some of you, because that entails finding clubs that are actually willing to pay for the players we no longer want.
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We can better facilitate a clearout by simply saying theres about 7 players in the squad that are good enough therefore untouchable and listening to offers for any of the others. Obviously not everyone leaves and we need to retain a squad but its got to the point where if any offers come in for the likes of Martial and Mctominay you may as well just sell them. The squads at the point where if Casemiro is out we are going to revert to Mctominay or DVB etc does it matter which one if neither are good enough. We tend to try to sell a select few garbage every summer which doesnt work and we retain players until their stock is super low.
 
I still say start from the back and get a new gk first and foremost, it has done wonders for man City and Liverpool over the years.
 
DavidDeSchmikes said:
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That is what SHOULD happen, but I think I have seen that headline with almost every manager and mroe than once in there tenure at the club. For me its actually as big a failing as a a lot of our purchases over the last decade.

Last summer was the only major clear out we have had, and it was mainly out of contract players we failed or refused to sell before, so it was quite pitiful in reality.

The truth is there should be about 15 out and half the number in, never going to happen but we could have a near zero net spend if we actually did things properly (cue the cant do that many deals in one window....when several clubs have, not that it has often worked out well to be fair)

Out
All of our loan deals
Henderson
Lindelof
Maguire
Bailly
Telles
Williams
Jones
Tuanzabe
Dalot
VDB
McTominay
Fred
Martial
Greenwood
SAncho

In
Diego Costa
Vanderson
Bella Kotchap
Kim Man Jae
Lavia
Kipbempe Thuram
Vitor Roque
Hoijlund

With youngsters like Mainoo, Hannibal, Amad more involved, we would still have a thirty man squad, we would have a strong 2 players for most of hte positions with experienced players like DeGea, Casemeiro, Varane, Eriksen and a really good base of talented young players and dont want to talk figures, but I think that is pretty much a zero net spend.

Appreciate its a bit FM, but 10 of those players should 100% be sold even if its small fees in some cases and I don tthink any of those signing are over £50m, all attainable and with premiership wages and what the big clubs need, I only think there will be big competition signing wise with three of them, the majority of that is genuinely doable this summer
 
Lee565 said:
I still say start from the back and get a new gk first and foremost, it has done wonders for man City and Liverpool over the years.
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Totally agree we need to go pay £75-80m for Mike Maignan or offer Greenwood plus sone cash
 
DavidDeSchmikes said:
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This is deliberately to get some of them to step up and give a performance. Wouldn’t surprise me after this they down tools starting Sunday. We need 4 wins in PL even that could be an issue if they go into can’t be assed mode and we know these players could easily do that ?
 
L1nk said:
Briefs coming out that up to 15 odd players will be allowed to leave... we'll need a lot.
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It's not that many considering most of them have no first team role currently - Bailly, Telles, Jones, Tuanzebe etc.


You can do these big overhauls if you're shrewd in the market and are willing to make the less obvious/less expensive signings to replace the current squad players who aren't good enough. If we sold Mctominay for 20-25m for example, a football club run by competent people should easily be able to find a replacement for the money we raise, and be no worse off financially or on the pitch.

I'd be delighted to see Mctominay, Fred and VDB leave and 3 new CM's come in.

The issue we have is every every player we sign costs us £50m minimum. Mediocre players who aren't good enough like Fred cost us 50m, AWB cost us 50m, Maguire cost us 80m. Brighton play better football than us and never pay over £20m for a player, most of them being way cheaper than that. Either our scouting is horrendous or our transfer strategy is horrendous to ignore our scouts. Caicedo is an example of a player that could have been ours for peanuts.

The saved wages and money raised by getting rid of Maguire/Tuanzebe/Bailly/Jones should be allocated to a new centre back. Whoever leaves from AWB/Dalot needs to go towards a new right back. Sign 1 star CM and then find a couple on less expensive deals to make up the numbers.

The excuse not to do an overhaul will be "if you go bargain hunting they're probably not going to be United standard". Well, Mctominay, Fred, and VDB aren't United standard either. That's the point. Take a chance on some players who might be.
 
Every year it’s “we need 4-5 top players to compete”. Issue is, even if we do sign 4-5 players, not all of them end up being top players and consistently play way below standard than what is required for a team aiming to compete for the PL and CL.

That along with the fact that 1-2 other existing players start to decline each year and need to be replaced too, meaning we need 6-7 quality players minimum. Not just for the starting 11 but to also give us good squad depth. The current drop off when a lot of our key players such as Martinez, Varane, Casemiro, Rashford and Bruno are not available is huge, as shown in the 2nd leg vs Sevilla. We need to minimise the drop off as much as possible.

Problem is, as Rangnick said, this squad needs major surgery and if we continue to only perform half of the surgery every summer, we are going to be in this continuous never ending cycle.

Hopefully this can be the year where we say enough is enough and get rid of at least 6-7 players and replace them with 6-7 quality players good enough to help us compete both domestically and in Europe.
 
IN Essential
- new centre forward
- new goalkeeper
- backup goalkeeper
- backup centre back
- backup defensive midfielder (I believe Sabitzer can do that job)
- backup right back

OUT Essential (to create funds)
- Maguire
- Fred
- Wan Bissaka
- Martial
- De Gea
- Bailly
- Henderson

OUT by contract/loan
- Jones
- Tuanzebe
- Weghorst

Promote a couple of the most talented U21s knocking at the door (Garnacho development style) and work on the basis that one of Pellestri or Amad can become a regular first team squad option.

A huge summer ahead……
 
Borussia Teeth said:
Going against the grain here: I still believe we're only a starting striker and starting cm away from competing for the title.

Gk, rb, back up dm, back up striker can be addressed next season.
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Yeah that's definitely not enough to compete
 
VivaRonaldo85 said:
IN Essential
- new centre forward
- new goalkeeper
- backup goalkeeper
- backup centre back
- backup defensive midfielder (I believe Sabitzer can do that job)
- backup right back

OUT Essential (to create funds)
- Maguire
- Fred
- Wan Bissaka
- Martial
- De Gea
- Bailly
- Henderson

OUT by contract/loan
- Jones
- Tuanzebe
- Weghorst

Promote a couple of the most talented U21s knocking at the door (Garnacho development style) and work on the basis that one of Pellestri or Amad can become a regular first team squad option.

A huge summer ahead……
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We can't be going into next season with Eriksen as regular that would be asking for trouble , we absolutely need a Striker, CM , Goalkeeper for first eleven minimum then the upgrade on RB if funds permit ,before even thinking about Backups.

Just to add backups also need to be young players of Elite potential capable of challenging for first team immediately and replace them eventually .
 
croadyman said:
Does Mac Allister offer enough creativity
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If the system is working I think he does. Our problem lately is we have no connection from back to front. You could just blame DDG and Maguire.. But the off form midfield isn’t helping.
 
I'd add a midfielder to that, but that's along the right lines from Neville imo.

 
I’d probably leave RB for this summer, on the basis that both AWB and Dalot have stepped up at times this season, and we’ve got far bigger priorities.

Currently, I’m at:

GK: ??, ??
RB: AWB, Dalot
CB: Varane, Martinez, ??, ??
LB: Shaw, Martinez
DCM: Casemiro, ??
CM: ??, Eriksen
10: Bruno, Diallo
RW: Antony, Sancho
LW: Rashford, Garnacho
CF: Kane, ??

That’s a lot of holes and we aren’t going to fill them all (and that ignores the fact that I’d really want to upgrade at RB and RW ideally as well). First choice GK, CM and CF are absolute essentials though.
 
Alfie092 said:
Every year it’s “we need 4-5 top players to compete”. Issue is, even if we do sign 4-5 players, not all of them end up being top players and consistently play way below standard than what is required for a team aiming to compete for the PL and CL.

That along with the fact that 1-2 other existing players start to decline each year and need to be replaced too, meaning we need 6-7 quality players minimum. Not just for the starting 11 but to also give us good squad depth. The current drop off when a lot of our key players such as Martinez, Varane, Casemiro, Rashford and Bruno are not available is huge, as shown in the 2nd leg vs Sevilla. We need to minimise the drop off as much as possible.

Problem is, as Rangnick said, this squad needs major surgery and if we continue to only perform half of the surgery every summer, we are going to be in this continuous never ending cycle.

Hopefully this can be the year where we say enough is enough and get rid of at least 6-7 players and replace them with 6-7 quality players good enough to help us compete both domestically and in Europe.
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Right on, our transfer strategy needs to be informed by who has to go before we even think about incoming because the moment we entertain average players as our first change players we are setting ourselves up for continuous repeats of debacles like the Sevilla one. Get rid of all the mentally fragile players who cannot take the heat - the first culprits are Sancho, Maguire and De Gea.

Then we have players like Martial, Henderson and others who aren't quite good enough like Scot and Fred. However we can't do it all in one summer so we have to obviously sift through the shit and salvage the usable ones and also swiftly disposing those with a bit of value.

The following two or three transfer windows should be about eliminating longstanding weaknesses in the team and getting rid of mentally fragile players. We can continue to carry passengers like we are doing right now.
 
Couple of realistic targets I'd get.
Not necessarily targets that Erik wants.

GK - Raya. Good passer, decent sweeper. Suits Erik's play i believe.

CB - Kim. Easy. Pay the clause. Nothing complicated, not an unsung hero, not italian. Gettable.

CM - Ward Prowse. Southampton are going down. Gettable. Still has something to prove. The drive and mentality are there.

CF - Vlahović. If Juve get deducted again, fall out of CL spot, might get him for normal money.
Left footed giant. Mentality not really there, but he's young and the talent is ridiculous.

Nothing flashy, nothing unrealistic.
All 4 would elevate our game, maybe not to title contenders, but it's a good step forward.
 
We need a CF and GK - if those positions gets upgraded then we’ve strengthened our starting 11 significantly.

After sorting out CF and GK then it’s a matter of incremental changes and upgrades on whoever we manage to sell/release so that we build a better squad. I.e.selling Maguire -> new CB, McT -> new DM-backup, Fred -> new CM etc.
 
The sale will not be finalized until the end of the transfer window so I think that will force a few decisions:
- Greenwood to stay
- Sancho, Maguire and DDG to be sold/loaned to get some money in and free up the wage bill
- Diallo to stay
- Sabitzer to become permanent

IN:
- New ST and I'm sure it won't be Kane, and he shouldn't be. He had enough chances to leave, I don't want him at the end of his career on 500 grand a week
- Sabitzer
- Greenwod
- CM
- 2 * ST
- CB/RB (can't afford both)
- GK

OUT:
- DDG
- AWB
- Maguire
- Sancho (sadly)
- Jones
- Tuanzebe
- Bailly
- Mctominay
- Telles
- Martial


It's a huge summer ahead and I think most of our fans don't really see the importance of it past ETH's tenure here.

If, but only if, he's allowed a massive clearout & a few transfers and he fecks it up, we're doomed for another 4-5 years unless the oil money comes in.
 
Like another poster above pointed out, we're going to need 6-7 new players and there are no guarantees that all of them will succeed here. First and foremost, we have to get rid of the plague Glazers and change our transfer and scouting strategy. I believe we need at least a new GK, RB, CB, rotating DM, CM and 2 strikers.

GK: Maignan (Diogo Costa if not him)
RB: Frimpong (Mazraoui if not him)
CB: Kim Min-jae (Bella-Kotchap if not him)
DM: Caicedo (Lavia if not him)
CM: De Jong (Enzo Le Fée if not him)
CF: Osimhen & Vitor Roque (Kane, Evan Ferguson or Højlund)

I think the striker position is the most difficult decision we have to make. If we get Osimhen, can we even afford another forward, or do we have to rely on Martial as back-up when we all know he inevitably will get injured? Do we try to get Kane on a cheap considering he has one year left on his contract or will that cnut Levy demand a ridiculous transfer fee? Alternatively, we could get Ferguson or Højlund hoping they stay injury-free for a season and then get Kane on a free next summer. Ferguson or Højlund will, regardless, be a lot better than Weghorst has been and we're 3rd in the league, which is quite impressive with him leading our line. There are so many options, and hopefully Ten Hag will get it right. Personally, I think Evan Ferguson looks tailor-made for Premier League. He's going to be a beast, and I reckon he's a bit safer than Højlund (younger as well).

Acquiring the first priorities on this list isn't very realistic, but we should be able to get at least some of them. However, under no circumstances, should we go into next season with De Gea and Maguire as important players. De Gea should take a wage cut and be our number 2, and Maguire has to be sold. In the game against Sevilla, you could just see that the clownery by De Gea and Maguire sucked the motivation and hunger out of the rest of the players. No matter what they do, these two will find a way to ruin the score line.
 
A new goalkeeper

2 Centre backs---Get Rid of Maguire and Lindelof

2 Midfielders------Get rid of McTominay and Van de Beek

A centre forward
6 Players
 
Just get a GK and able backup CBs who focus on doing a job and not spouting shit in interviews. If Greenwood returns to the team then GK should the first priority.
 
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