I'll get my coat.
What do we still need? Aka The never ending story
- Thread starter Devil may care
- Start date
It easier and quicker to say what we don't need.
In all seriousness, I think Erik Ten Hag would be a good start. He seems to be a fella who takes no bullshit. We need him to be strong enough to take full control of the club like what Klopp has done at Liverpool in that regard. Let him get rid of the players that aren't good enough or aren't pulling their weight.
In all seriousness, I think Erik Ten Hag would be a good start. He seems to be a fella who takes no bullshit. We need him to be strong enough to take full control of the club like what Klopp has done at Liverpool in that regard. Let him get rid of the players that aren't good enough or aren't pulling their weight.
It is quite good for a new manager though, he basically gets to completely shape his squad in how he sees fit. Obviously won't be done in one window, but probably gives our next manager the best chance of success. Or in some cases, no where to hide.
At the minute I'd say the bare minimum is 5 signings:
Sancho(Elanga)--------Striker(Cristiano)---------------Rashford(Amad)
----------------------------------------------Bruno(VDB)-------------------------------
----------------------------CM(Fred)----------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------DM(McTominay)-------------------------------
Shaw(Telles)-----LCB(Lindelof)-----Varane(Tuanzebe)----RB(Dalot)
--------------------------------------De Gea(Henderson)-------------------------
and Pellistri and a young defender stick around for depth and minutes.
But I don't think Henderson or Cristiano want to be backups. So probably Henderson on loan and we loan in a #2 keeper to compete with Heaton and I have genuinely no idea what happens at striker.
Maguire and Wan-Bissaka have to be sold to whatever Prem teams make the best offer. just don't think Wan-Bissaka is up to it on the ball and Maguire is going to be even more of a liability at everything but heading it in a season or two unless he moves to a team that sits deeper or he gets to play in a 3. Hannibal on loan to get a season of first-team football.
Rashford is struggling for confidence, but at least we have Amad, Pellistri and Elanga as players who might conceivably break out, so winger doesn't seem as dire and urgent. We don't have any realistic hope up front barring a Cristiano revival (which I wouldn't bet against, as bad as he looks at the moment, he's still at 14 in 26 in the Prem and Europe for us and one more 2 in 3 season feels plausible) and he needs a backup (or someone to start in front of him) and the same at #8 and #6.
Money-wise, the good news is that the RB can be a bit older because Dalot is developing.
Sancho(Elanga)--------Striker(Cristiano)---------------Rashford(Amad)
----------------------------------------------Bruno(VDB)-------------------------------
----------------------------CM(Fred)----------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------DM(McTominay)-------------------------------
Shaw(Telles)-----LCB(Lindelof)-----Varane(Tuanzebe)----RB(Dalot)
--------------------------------------De Gea(Henderson)-------------------------
and Pellistri and a young defender stick around for depth and minutes.
But I don't think Henderson or Cristiano want to be backups. So probably Henderson on loan and we loan in a #2 keeper to compete with Heaton and I have genuinely no idea what happens at striker.
Maguire and Wan-Bissaka have to be sold to whatever Prem teams make the best offer. just don't think Wan-Bissaka is up to it on the ball and Maguire is going to be even more of a liability at everything but heading it in a season or two unless he moves to a team that sits deeper or he gets to play in a 3. Hannibal on loan to get a season of first-team football.
Rashford is struggling for confidence, but at least we have Amad, Pellistri and Elanga as players who might conceivably break out, so winger doesn't seem as dire and urgent. We don't have any realistic hope up front barring a Cristiano revival (which I wouldn't bet against, as bad as he looks at the moment, he's still at 14 in 26 in the Prem and Europe for us and one more 2 in 3 season feels plausible) and he needs a backup (or someone to start in front of him) and the same at #8 and #6.
Money-wise, the good news is that the RB can be a bit older because Dalot is developing.
1xCM
1xDM
1xST
1xRW
1xCB
1xRB
1xLB
1xDM
1xST
1xRW
1xCB
1xRB
1xLB
It’s good if we decide to sell players and do it well. We could raise well over 100m selling that lot saving shed loads off the wage bill - if we can top that up with a 150m transfer kitty we can definitely get the 5/6 players we need - there’s a lot of quality players out there with 1/2 years on their contracts. However, such a massive overhaul really needs proper planning - we need to be getting a manager in ASAP.
Jadon deserves a proper shot on RW and maybe sign someone who could play LB/RB. I would completely agree that the other 4 positions need upgrades though
Wondering why you’re still listing greenwood as a player for next season?
Need to get more than your coat, get your begging bowlI'll get my coat.
I think he'll be back by March this year or certainly for next season, no doubt in my mind, but I do think that Haaland is a better player than him.
You’re very optimistic. Obviously can’t get into it too much but i don’t think we will be seeing him line up for United again.
I’d expect Henderson, Dalot, Bailly, Jones, Matic, VDB, Pereira, Pogba, Lingard, Mata, Chong, Martial and Cavani all to definitely whilst I think Williams and Ronaldo will also all leave which is 15 players and shows what sort of fecking mess we’re actually in.
I think we’ll see Laird, Mengi, Garner, Mejbri, Elanga and Shoretire all move up to the first team permanently as well as Diallo back from Rangers so that’s 7 places but leaves a hell of a lot needed in to give us some squad depth.
There’s a lot of value out there this summer in Rudiger, Romagnoli, Kamara, Kessie, Brozovic, Tolisso, Isco, Januzaj, Dybala and Lacazette all available on free transfers and some of those walk into our team with what we currently have before summer departures.
Of those I said above I’d definitely go in for Romagnoli, Kamara, Januzaj and Lacazette to pack the squad out and they’re all in positions we are desperately short in quality wise. On top of that I’d go all out for Rice as we desperately need a genuine leader in the middle of the park and if Ronaldo goes we’ll need a centre forward.
Regardless of whether it’s Ten Hag or Pochettino coming in this summer I think top four and a couple of cup runs is best we can expect so if we had a squad of De Gea, Heaton, AWB, Laird, Varane, Lindelof, Maguire, Tuanzebe, Romagnoli, Mengi, Shaw, Telles, Rice, Kamara, McTominay, Fred, Garner, Mejbri, Fernandes, Sancho, Diallo, Januzaj, Rashford, Elanga, Shoretire, Lacazette, new centre forward and I’m going to include Greenwood for the time being then we’ll be a much better balanced team and can build from there.
I think we’ll see Laird, Mengi, Garner, Mejbri, Elanga and Shoretire all move up to the first team permanently as well as Diallo back from Rangers so that’s 7 places but leaves a hell of a lot needed in to give us some squad depth.
There’s a lot of value out there this summer in Rudiger, Romagnoli, Kamara, Kessie, Brozovic, Tolisso, Isco, Januzaj, Dybala and Lacazette all available on free transfers and some of those walk into our team with what we currently have before summer departures.
Of those I said above I’d definitely go in for Romagnoli, Kamara, Januzaj and Lacazette to pack the squad out and they’re all in positions we are desperately short in quality wise. On top of that I’d go all out for Rice as we desperately need a genuine leader in the middle of the park and if Ronaldo goes we’ll need a centre forward.
Regardless of whether it’s Ten Hag or Pochettino coming in this summer I think top four and a couple of cup runs is best we can expect so if we had a squad of De Gea, Heaton, AWB, Laird, Varane, Lindelof, Maguire, Tuanzebe, Romagnoli, Mengi, Shaw, Telles, Rice, Kamara, McTominay, Fred, Garner, Mejbri, Fernandes, Sancho, Diallo, Januzaj, Rashford, Elanga, Shoretire, Lacazette, new centre forward and I’m going to include Greenwood for the time being then we’ll be a much better balanced team and can build from there.
That's a mostly awful average squad you've listed there.
Are you joking?
I'll get my coat.
Unlikely, but even more worried if we have the same full-backs next season.
I don't think our fullbacks are bad, Shaw has had a poor season but he was the best LB in the PL the season before and Dalot is progressing, plus we have to give Laird a chance. I'm not saying an upgrade isn't possible down the line but we desperately two midfielders and two forwards this summer, can't see us getting more than that, or even that sadly.
Man for man we're obviously better than Southampton, Burnley and Middlesborough. The issues run deeper than that and are most likely psychological.
Adding players into an already dysfunctioning team is just go to drag them down with the rest.
The most important thing we can do is to sell the negative influences in the dressing room - even if they're our best players on paper. Once that's done, then we can talk buying.
The club is being run like a movie studio where the aim is market superstars to sell advertising. That's what's made us top heavy and the divas comfortable in their underperformances. They know they can get away with anything because they set the agenda. United in 2022 is the worst case of player power in the history of football.
Everyone is deadwood until they can prove otherwise. Even your favourite player.
Adding players into an already dysfunctioning team is just go to drag them down with the rest.
The most important thing we can do is to sell the negative influences in the dressing room - even if they're our best players on paper. Once that's done, then we can talk buying.
The club is being run like a movie studio where the aim is market superstars to sell advertising. That's what's made us top heavy and the divas comfortable in their underperformances. They know they can get away with anything because they set the agenda. United in 2022 is the worst case of player power in the history of football.
Everyone is deadwood until they can prove otherwise. Even your favourite player.
As I see it we have too many quirky/maverick players in particular our four star players: Ronaldo, Bruno, Pogba, Rashford. As individuals they're clearly talented however they all have significant flaws that need to be balanced in some way to make sure the sum of the parts is greater than the individual pieces. Ronaldo is a poacher who needs others to do his running, Bruno is essentially a wild card as is Pogba to an extent and Rashford is far too singularly focussed on scoring without the numbers to really justify it.
Currently I think trying to balance the four of them doesn't work. Even if you had better players in midfield and defence I think those 4 collectively bring too many issues than can be reasonably covered. Particularly without us being far more ruthless in attach, the longer a game goes on the more the flaws can be exploited which I think is what we're seeing.
I think the club has got some big decisions to make in how we move forward in the summer. I personally think we need to decide who out of the 4 we want to back and then our recruitment strategy needs to be focussed on how we get the best out of them. In reality we probably won't get a choice if Ronaldo/Pogba both leave.
If Ronaldo does go I can see them wanting a young upcoming star but I don't think we can afford to be developing someone if we're also going to persist with Rashford and Bruno. We need someone who will make the right decisions now.
Similarly in midfield there's no point going for a midfielder who is on a learning curve, if we want to make sure we can get the most out of Bruno whilst not being too impacted by his drawbacks we need someone who is ready now.
Appreciate that's easy to say and I don't have any real suggestions but I just don't think it'll work if we try to think too long term in our signings as we don't have the right senior players to make that work.
Currently I think trying to balance the four of them doesn't work. Even if you had better players in midfield and defence I think those 4 collectively bring too many issues than can be reasonably covered. Particularly without us being far more ruthless in attach, the longer a game goes on the more the flaws can be exploited which I think is what we're seeing.
I think the club has got some big decisions to make in how we move forward in the summer. I personally think we need to decide who out of the 4 we want to back and then our recruitment strategy needs to be focussed on how we get the best out of them. In reality we probably won't get a choice if Ronaldo/Pogba both leave.
If Ronaldo does go I can see them wanting a young upcoming star but I don't think we can afford to be developing someone if we're also going to persist with Rashford and Bruno. We need someone who will make the right decisions now.
Similarly in midfield there's no point going for a midfielder who is on a learning curve, if we want to make sure we can get the most out of Bruno whilst not being too impacted by his drawbacks we need someone who is ready now.
Appreciate that's easy to say and I don't have any real suggestions but I just don't think it'll work if we try to think too long term in our signings as we don't have the right senior players to make that work.
He'll play for us in the future. Regardless of being guilty or not guilty. Can't see the men in suits writing off an asset worth £100m.
You think he'll still play for us if he's found guilty of rape?
If he’s found guilty he will do time. That will be the end of his PL career.
if he’s found not guilty, how do you think he will feel about most of the squad disowning him? He will need to be mentally tough to deal with that and the stick he will get from live crowds and so on. Especially if he gets off for lack of evidence.
nope, i believe his career as a Manchester United player is firmly over either way
It’s a crazy way of thinking
Just find a new David Silva or Luka Modrić type of player.
Its what we've been missing for over a decade.
A connecting pin in the middle of the pitch.
An unpressable player.
Someone you can't take the ball off.
Find him.
Its what we've been missing for over a decade.
A connecting pin in the middle of the pitch.
An unpressable player.
Someone you can't take the ball off.
Find him.
Fortunately for him. I think it's possible if he takes the right steps to rehabilitate before or after the event of being found guilty.
Prison time doesn't erode his talent enough to fail as a top player.
There are cases of sportsmen doing time in prison and coming back to their profession.
Taking emotions out of the conversation it can't be argued that a man of his age can't recover to play a sport.
Not saying it would be easy but it's possible. And in the event of that possibility the club wouldn't want to throw away a very valuable asset.
But he isn’t worth 100m anymore and if he’s guilty and goes to Prison he will be out of the sport for years. I think you’re being unrealistic. Game over for him.
If he’s lucky he might get a smaller club taking a chance or move abroad but no big club will want the PR
No chance. Time will tell. There's not a top club that wouldn't want him if he got not guilty/ got back into football after a guilty verdict.
Players like him are rare. Business is business and regardless of whether he did it, it won't stop people in charge of clubs making business decisions.
If he was released from United there would be a long queue to offer him a contract.
Let’s see, but I think you’re very very wrong
Man Utd can keep him.
If he's guilty, no one in the top flight of English football would take him. Squads would not want him with them, fans would abuse him whenever he played (both sides) and that's provided he is even as good after potentially years out. Then add in what sponsors would do, I think you're not taking into account the gravity for all stakeholders of what he's alleged to have done.
He'd have to go abroad and maybe he'd stand a chance of a career in football, but no way in England.
So you are suggesting we add more average overpaid players to our squad?
Rudiger will sign a new contract eventually. Only Kessie and Kamara would improve us, Dybala won't leave a free. The rest, no thanks.
We need to revamp the squad and actually remove the deadwood not just resign them as its the easy and cheaper option, if they don't want to be here just get rid, main reason our dressing room is a joke.
Sell
Pereira - £10m - confirmed
Pogba - Free - 16 appearances
Lingard - Free - 16 appearances
Cavani - Free - 15 appearances
Mata - Free - 4 appearances
Jones - £5 million - 2 appearances
Tuanzebe - £5 million - On loan
Bailly - £5 million - 7 appearances
Henderson - £20 million - 5 appearances
Matic - £5 million - 20 appearances
Dalot - £10 million - 1 year left on deal will be easier to sell that AWB clearly not good enough
Martial - £25 million - 11 appearances - On loan - Doesn't want to be here will have to take a hit on price over his 200k a week wages
Williams £10 million - on loan
£95 million in outgoings plus an extortionate amount of money of the wage bill
Excluding Dalot who has become a regular but still not good enough, the above list has a total of 96 appearances with majority being a handful of minutes off the bench with the majority being a short cameo off the bench, i would rather give those opportunities to our Academy graduates and a couple of new signings to pad these out.
Sign
Kamara - Free
Mazraoui - Free
Tchouameni - £70 - £80 million
Tielemans - £30 - £40 million - 1 year left on contract
Darwin Nunez - £70 - £80 million
Johnstone - Free - Backup keeper
£200 million on incomings potentially
Net of £105 million give or take with wages saved from the above more likely closer to £85 million
Which is roughly our average net spend over the last 10 years
Promote
Mengi - 4th choice CB
Amad - Backup RW
Elanga - Already promoted but keep as Backup LW
Loan
Garner - Loan to a Prem team preferably Forest if they go up
Laird - Loan to Bournemouth if they go up has to prove fitness before being given a chance
McNeil - Loan to a Championship team
23/24 Season
New GK
New CB
New LB
Get the pain out of the way early instead of delaying the inevitable
Sell
Pereira - £10m - confirmed
Pogba - Free - 16 appearances
Lingard - Free - 16 appearances
Cavani - Free - 15 appearances
Mata - Free - 4 appearances
Jones - £5 million - 2 appearances
Tuanzebe - £5 million - On loan
Bailly - £5 million - 7 appearances
Henderson - £20 million - 5 appearances
Matic - £5 million - 20 appearances
Dalot - £10 million - 1 year left on deal will be easier to sell that AWB clearly not good enough
Martial - £25 million - 11 appearances - On loan - Doesn't want to be here will have to take a hit on price over his 200k a week wages
Williams £10 million - on loan
£95 million in outgoings plus an extortionate amount of money of the wage bill
Excluding Dalot who has become a regular but still not good enough, the above list has a total of 96 appearances with majority being a handful of minutes off the bench with the majority being a short cameo off the bench, i would rather give those opportunities to our Academy graduates and a couple of new signings to pad these out.
Sign
Kamara - Free
Mazraoui - Free
Tchouameni - £70 - £80 million
Tielemans - £30 - £40 million - 1 year left on contract
Darwin Nunez - £70 - £80 million
Johnstone - Free - Backup keeper
£200 million on incomings potentially
Net of £105 million give or take with wages saved from the above more likely closer to £85 million
Which is roughly our average net spend over the last 10 years
Promote
Mengi - 4th choice CB
Amad - Backup RW
Elanga - Already promoted but keep as Backup LW
Loan
Garner - Loan to a Prem team preferably Forest if they go up
Laird - Loan to Bournemouth if they go up has to prove fitness before being given a chance
McNeil - Loan to a Championship team
23/24 Season
New GK
New CB
New LB
Get the pain out of the way early instead of delaying the inevitable
I honestly think we should let go/sell 10+ current first teamers over the next two summers, while signing a new LB, CB, DM, 8, Winger, ST during them two summers. But during this time use Mengi, Laird, Williams, Garner, Hannibal, McNeil etc as our back ups and integrate them properly with a good coach. Replacing the dross like Fred, Mctominay, Maguire and then the players who will leave anyway such as Jesse, Martial, Pogba, Matic etc etc
- Nkunku would make sense as cover and competition for Bruno and both wings. Though expensive - 60m
- Kamara easy for DM, huge potential, and his price - 0m
- Bennacer for the #8 position to control games in the 2nd phase next to Bruno - 40m
- Lautaro, we need a striker desperately, but will be expensive. Not many options though. Maybe Darwin Nunez though I don't know much about him.
De Gea
Dalot Varane Maguire Shaw
Kamara
Bruno Bennacer
Rashford Lautaro Sancho
Heaton
Wan Bissaka Bailly Lindelof Telles
McTominay
Hannibal Fred
Elanga Martial Nkunku
Amad and Mengi further depth. Loan out guys like Laird, Shoretire, other high potential guys. Sell or release the rest.Dalot Varane Maguire Shaw
Kamara
Bruno Bennacer
Rashford Lautaro Sancho
Heaton
Wan Bissaka Bailly Lindelof Telles
McTominay
Hannibal Fred
Elanga Martial Nkunku
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Switch De Jong and Tchoumeni or play 'em in a double pivot. De Jong provides very little in the final 3rd.I'll get my coat.
How have we spend more than 100M on RW in the last 18 months, and end up in a situation where we still need a RW?
This club is fecking depressing.
This club is fecking depressing.
Update and add edit:
+ New CB : Milan Škriniar . Ralf want it nasty. Here you get. A beast of a CB
+ new nr.8. Down to last two Bellingham and Tielemans. Bellingham has the nasty in him, naturally. Plus about 2 years. a 18 Bellingham from 18 fully develop his physical boy. He will be a dominate CM and 8. Bellingham can easily pass players from CM area too. And he is good in the final third. Beside ability to score
+ new nr.6 : Tchouaméni over Rice. Due to the price. Moyes just sad Rice will cost more than 100 £ mill. And that is too much. And since United have decend and good ball winner in Fred and McTom. Not world class ballwinner like Kante. But with a beast of a CB behind the nr.6 in Skriniar. United will still be a hard team to score against.
+ new RW: Raphinha from Brazil and Leeds
+ New RB : This spot and position i m still scouting and not sure yet. There are 3 options out there im considering and following.
They are. Inters Dumfries. Brihgtons Lamptey and Bayer Leverkusen Frimpong.
So how to line up those new players in a 4231 first:
Dumfries/Lamptey/Frimpong - Skriniar - Varane - Shaw +
Raphinha - Bellingham - Tchoumeni - Sancho + Bruno + RAshford/Ronaldo
In a 433 Ajax Taag formation:
Dumfries/Lamptey/Frimpong - Skriniar - Varane - Shaw +
McTom - Tchoumeni - Bruno
Raphinha - RAshford - Sancho
There you have both 4231 and 433 formation. With 433 you drop Bruno down as two of the 8 role and posistion. With Tchoumeni the deep balaance and creative cm player. With two pacey and skill ful. A NATURAL winger on the wide side. Ready for all the manager in the world. Both british and continental formation and football style.
The most important are a world class CB, Nr.6 and 8 and RW. RB might good enough with Bissaka. Not Dalot. Too be honest. Dalot is not solid at defend. Special one against one. I prefer Bissaka one on one defend ability. Because of Bissaka acceleration and tackling. But offensive. You need of Dumfries, Lamptey or Frimpong assist passes from the wide side. Those 3 RB are really good going forward. Dalot is not consistent good as those 3. Reason i think United need a new RB. But can survive with Bissaka if United got 4 really really close to world class and top leve with 4 other important positions i mentioned above.
Then we can talk about premier leage title.
Skriniar, Bellingham, Tchoumeni, Raphinha + one of Dumfries/Lamptey/Frimpong (RB)
+ New CB : Milan Škriniar . Ralf want it nasty. Here you get. A beast of a CB
+ new nr.8. Down to last two Bellingham and Tielemans. Bellingham has the nasty in him, naturally. Plus about 2 years. a 18 Bellingham from 18 fully develop his physical boy. He will be a dominate CM and 8. Bellingham can easily pass players from CM area too. And he is good in the final third. Beside ability to score
+ new nr.6 : Tchouaméni over Rice. Due to the price. Moyes just sad Rice will cost more than 100 £ mill. And that is too much. And since United have decend and good ball winner in Fred and McTom. Not world class ballwinner like Kante. But with a beast of a CB behind the nr.6 in Skriniar. United will still be a hard team to score against.
+ new RW: Raphinha from Brazil and Leeds
+ New RB : This spot and position i m still scouting and not sure yet. There are 3 options out there im considering and following.
They are. Inters Dumfries. Brihgtons Lamptey and Bayer Leverkusen Frimpong.
So how to line up those new players in a 4231 first:
Dumfries/Lamptey/Frimpong - Skriniar - Varane - Shaw +
Raphinha - Bellingham - Tchoumeni - Sancho + Bruno + RAshford/Ronaldo
In a 433 Ajax Taag formation:
Dumfries/Lamptey/Frimpong - Skriniar - Varane - Shaw +
McTom - Tchoumeni - Bruno
Raphinha - RAshford - Sancho
There you have both 4231 and 433 formation. With 433 you drop Bruno down as two of the 8 role and posistion. With Tchoumeni the deep balaance and creative cm player. With two pacey and skill ful. A NATURAL winger on the wide side. Ready for all the manager in the world. Both british and continental formation and football style.
The most important are a world class CB, Nr.6 and 8 and RW. RB might good enough with Bissaka. Not Dalot. Too be honest. Dalot is not solid at defend. Special one against one. I prefer Bissaka one on one defend ability. Because of Bissaka acceleration and tackling. But offensive. You need of Dumfries, Lamptey or Frimpong assist passes from the wide side. Those 3 RB are really good going forward. Dalot is not consistent good as those 3. Reason i think United need a new RB. But can survive with Bissaka if United got 4 really really close to world class and top leve with 4 other important positions i mentioned above.
Then we can talk about premier leage title.
Skriniar, Bellingham, Tchoumeni, Raphinha + one of Dumfries/Lamptey/Frimpong (RB)
This. The best squads going right now are high intensity pressing and we still have zero MFs who can consistently handle the press.
We as a minimum need:
2x defenders
2x midfielders
1x attacker
REGULAR STARTERS
2x defenders
2x midfielders
1x attacker
REGULAR STARTERS
Would say need a rotation midfield option IF by some miracle Pogba stayed, otherwise totally agree we need two starters.
Presume you are talking about attacking RB and CB partner for Varane along with proper hard working striker to replace Edi