What do we do about Sancho? Now and longer term

[AndySmith1990]

He's 22, we don't need to do anything except be patient and hope Ten Hag can help turn him into the player he has the potential to be

 

[The Purley King]

That is a really expensive (80m) squad player and you saying we offered him more than 300k pw wages to not be the "first name on the teamsheet guy"? Recknon his wages is even more than Arsenal's wingers Saka and Martinelli combined ffs.

True - but that isn't ETH's problem really as he didn't sign him. ETH seems like the kind of bloke who doesn't look at transfer fees or wages when picking the team, which is a breath of fresh air compared to the last few managers we've had.

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

I don't either and nor can anyone, I'm assuming. Seems we doubled or even tripled his wages when we weren't even in a bidding war with anyone for him.

Isn't it obvious? Because we believe we've found in him, as in others who were also put on huge & multi-year contracts, someone who will sort out a specific role on the pitch (or in the squad) for the next decade. It goes hand-in-hand with the desire to also find a manager who will stay put for the next quarter of the century.

It's a noble idea when you know what you're doing. But with the guys that kept the likes of Phil Jones and Jesse Lingard around for what seems like forever, probably because the great man had a few good words to say for them, ... i'm not so sure. I mean, there were reports from Germany that Sancho's a bit of a slow starter who often starts pre-season a little overweight and then plays himself into rhythm. Of course, he was afforded that luxury in an inferior league and at a club that can finish 30 points behind Bayern Munich and still have a good season. Furthermore, a club which had chosen to overlook his shortcomings, as long as Sancho kept racking up the numbers, with the goal of finding a potential buyer. And, God, they are good at selling. The big question is, are we clever buyers? We got dazzled by his good stats and the fact that he links well with players around him. The latter is the only thing that distinguished from Rashford and Greenwood at the time. They all live and breathe for the ball in-behind. When that's not available, the other two will start shooting from anywhere, Sancho will look for the one-two and the potential cut-back. We need "heavy lifters" in the final third, players able to keep the ball and make good decisions in tight spaces and with limited time to think, players who don't shy away from challenges and their influence doesn't evaporate as soon as they find themselves away from the box. What we did, instead, was keep hoarding attackers who mostly rely on others to do the hard work for them. But that's not the way to play football. That's the way to empty your midfield of any creativity and make McFred a mainstay in the midfield to make up for the general effort that's lacking ahead. In hindsight, it really looks like watching a car crash in slow motion, doesn't it?

Nevertheless, i believe there's a good player in there. Not an 80 million/ 350 thousand pounds p/w player, but a good footballer still. And we put ourselves in a position where we have to get something out of him. It's just that he's case was poorly handled. It's a shame, too, in some ways, because he's trying to play himself into form outside his natural game. He was never the great dribbler who would draw defenders and constantly beat them to create openings. But without Martial and with Bruno trying to be as direct as possible, someone has to make things happen when the ball in-behind isn't an option. He can certainly play better than what we're watching right now.

In the end, it's a mix of arrogance and incompetence by the club. Gary Neville said a right thing in his altercation with Roy Keane the other day. As strange as it may sound, trading goals and assists (end product) for different qualities in some areas in the attacking third can lead to a better team. It's amazing that, at United, someone has to spell it out to the decisions makers.

 

[alexanderplatz]

Generally I’m all for patience but I do feel that patience has just been taken advantage of by players in the last few years. We need to get to a place where players are contributing or they are out. The manager has done a fantastic job of creating the right conditions for players to thrive and there are signs that Sancho is getting there. I would say we are lacking goals in the front 3 (no matter who plays) so something has to give at a point. I think one of Rashford, Sancho or Martial will be shipped at the end of the season because one of them will have been deemed to have not produced enough. I imagine it will be Martial rather than the others at this rate though

 

[MancFanFromManc]

Sancho is class. He was on fire pre-season with Rash and Tony. I couldnt understand why ETH was so determined to bring in Antony. It all makes sense now of course. Antony is superb. Sancho still has a lot to learn, but I'm really hoping he stays long term as he will (imho) be a world class player in the next few years

 

[Teja]

Too early to make a judgement IMO. Let's see how things go over the course of the season. Seems to have a mental block more than anything.

 

[cybertej29]

He's 22, we don't need to do anything except be patient and hope Ten Hag can help turn him into the player he has the potential to be

Finally, a sensible take. I hear these arguments about he has had 1 and half seasons to prove his worth by now, but thats rubbish. Everyone was crap last season, so it doesnt really count. He was good for the first few games of the season, is in a bit of a slump now, and the caf is writing him off. Typical really.

 

[Jippy]

Isn't it obvious? Because we believe we've found in him, as in others who were also put on huge & multi-year contracts, someone who will sort out a specific role on the pitch (or in the squad) for the next decade. It goes hand-in-hand with the desire to also find a manager who will stay put for the next quarter of the century.

It's a noble idea when you know what you're doing. But with the guys that kept the likes of Phil Jones and Jesse Lingard around for what seems like forever, probably because the great man had a few good words to say for them, ... i'm not so sure. I mean, there were reports from Germany that Sancho's a bit of a slow starter who often starts pre-season a little overweight and then plays himself into rhythm. Of course, he was afforded that luxury in an inferior league and at a club that can finish 30 points behind Bayern Munich and still have a good season. Furthermore, a club which had chosen to overlook his shortcomings, as long as Sancho kept racking up the numbers, with the goal of finding a potential buyer. And, God, they are good at selling. The big question is, are we clever buyers? We got dazzled by his good stats and the fact that he links well with players around him. The latter is the only thing that distinguished from Rashford and Greenwood at the time. They all live and breathe for the ball in-behind. When that's not available, the other two will start shooting from anywhere, Sancho will look for the one-two and the potential cut-back. We need "heavy lifters" in the final third, players able to keep the ball and make good decisions in tight spaces and with limited time to think, players who don't shy away from challenges and their influence doesn't evaporate as soon as they find themselves away from the box. What we did, instead, was keep hoarding attackers who mostly rely on others to do the hard work for them. But that's not the way to play football. That's the way to empty your midfield of any creativity and make McFred a mainstay in the midfield to make up for the general effort that's lacking ahead. In hindsight, it really looks like watching a car crash in slow motion, doesn't it?

Nevertheless, i believe there's a good player in there. Not an 80 million/ 350 thousand pounds p/w player, but a good footballer still. And we put ourselves in a position where we have to get something out of him. It's just that he's case was poorly handled. It's a shame, too, in some ways, because he's trying to play himself into form outside his natural game. He was never the great dribbler who would draw defenders and constantly beat them to create openings. But without Martial and with Bruno trying to be as direct as possible, someone has to make things happen when the ball in-behind isn't an option. He can certainly play better than what we're watching right now.

In the end, it's a mix of arrogance and incompetence by the club. Gary Neville said a right thing in his altercation with Roy Keane the other day. As strange as it may sound, trading goals and assists (end product) for different qualities in some areas in the attacking third can lead to a better team. It's amazing that, at United, someone has to spell it out to the decisions makers.

I also agree that there's a good player in there, it seemed such an unfathomable leap in salary unless he really wasn't keen on moving initially. He's our third highest earner by some margin I assume after Ronaldo and DDG, way ahead of Bruno and Varane even.

 

[Solius]

We just give him more time. Yes he should have adapted better by now but players progress at different rates.

I think he should be given some games centrally to see how he does there.

Ironically it was easier for him to hide when the whole team was crap. Now we're improving he's sticking out more and more, so it will be obvious that we need to get rid if he is still not up to speed in 6 months.

 

[OJKernow]

Stick with him, ETH hasn't even had him for 6 months yet, and like most other players in the squad, last season should be considered a write-off. He has a lot of aspects to improve on, but has shown glimpses of what he can offer, let's at least give him the rest of this season and judge him properly then.

 

[Offside]

I think he has good close control and ability on the ball and he has shown even this season he can deliver on end product. However, he’s very quiet most of the time and clearly struggles with confidence. I also think he is lacking the pace and acceleration to be a really top left sided PL player.

 

[Fortitude]

So if Erik can’t do that, or doesn’t think it’s worth the effort, who should we bring in? Poch?

The problem for Sancho is that fixing the whole is far more important to the club than singular integration of one out of sorts player, which is understandable as we are desperately in need of that CL money and fixing the team is the overwhelming priority before focusing on individuals.

So I wouldn't say it's a question of effort rather than priorities at the moment and the meantime, Sancho has to try and get with the program and hope the manager has long-term plans and vision for him. There's no question he's lacking aggression and intensity as well as fitness, but I believe the first two are intertwined with confidence and the pressure to deliver with so much scrutiny on his every error - he's never experienced criticism of that sort nor has he had eyes on him for the wrong reasons, so if it is overwhelming, it wouldn't be a surprise.

Time and patience over heckling and doubt remedies a lot of these issues; his talent is not in question and as such, we should be looking to exhaust all options with him before even thinking of moving him on, if of course, the manager fancies him and what he can give the team when optimised and facilitated.

 

[Fitchett]

Have we had any success with players signed from the Bundesliga? Hargreaves and Schweinsteiger from Bayern were crocks. Kagawa, Mkhitaryan and now Sancho from Dortmund have all been underwhelming. The Dutch League is supposed to be weaker, but in general, we've had much more joy in signing Dutch players and players from the Dutch League.

Too many examples for it to be a coincidence.

 

[JustCoco]

I like him but he's not fast enough to pressure opponents as ETH wants, you can see the difference in speed from Rashford, Bruno, both FB's, hell even CR7 is rapid at closing people down.

That would be ok and something to let pass if he could at least dribble past people and scored goals. He seem's well out of his depth

 

[Hughie77]

He's 22, we don't need to do anything except be patient and hope Ten Hag can help turn him into the player he has the potential to be

Agree, last season was a mess, this is his starting season imo . 22 patience needed

 

[Judas]

He deserve more time and backing. But he's really struggling at the moment and looks a shadow of the player he was in Germany. We've seen other players improve under Ten Hag, and I was sure he would, but so far very little to no impact has been made. Even the stuff he's usually been at it in the past, tidy passing for example is no more, he's all over the shop.

People wanting us to sell in January or in the summer are nutters, but its the Caf, I'm not surprised.

 

[Revaulx]

The problem for Sancho is that fixing the whole is far more important to the club than singular integration of one out of sorts player, which is understandable as we are desperately in need of that CL money and fixing the team is the overwhelming priority before focusing on individuals.

So I wouldn't say it's a question of effort rather than priorities at the moment and the meantime, Sancho has to try and get with the program and hope the manager has long-term plans and vision for him. There's no question he's lacking aggression and intensity as well as fitness, but I believe the first two are intertwined with confidence and the pressure to deliver with so much scrutiny on his every error - he's never experienced criticism of that sort nor has he had eyes on him for the wrong reasons, so if it is overwhelming, it wouldn't be a surprise.

Time and patience over heckling and doubt remedies a lot of these issues; his talent is not in question and as such, we should be looking to exhaust all options with him before even thinking of moving him on, if of course, the manager fancies him and what he can give the team when optimised and facilitated.

Ah fair enough. I think it's really only possible to carry high maintenance and non-self starting players if they're really good and the rest of the machine is running smoothly. It's great, for example, to see Shaw at his best once again, but if he comes back after next summer fat and out of condition yet again, I wouldn't blame ETH at all for thinking he wasn't worth the effort.

Regarding the bolded, I thought he'd had issues with his timekeeping at Dortmund and maybe City before that? The one person I know who's met him says he's a lovely lad, but maybe the drive to push beyond his comfort zone just isn't there. If so I have some sympathy as I've always been rather like that myself.

 

[RedDevil@84]

We can't do much. He is on a long contract with silly salary. We are stuck with him.

His signing is a clear example of how our scouting system sucked (We needed a RW, but got someone who wants to play LW) and how people up top were hopelessly incompetent when they decided to pay the fees and then those wages.

Hopefully, ETH can find a miracle.

 

[Strootman's Finger]

Finally, a sensible take. I hear these arguments about he has had 1 and half seasons to prove his worth by now, but thats rubbish. Everyone was crap last season, so it doesnt really count. He was good for the first few games of the season, is in a bit of a slump now, and the caf is writing him off. Typical really.

Why does it not count because everyone was crap? They were crap, because those individuals contributed in a crappy way, not playing good, not training good, not putting up the numbers, having a poor attitude is what made them crap. I 100% hold these adult professionals accountable for their commitment and effort last season and I am perplexed that anyone feels like anyone deserves to have that written off. No, they needed to be reminded of it, so they know it's not acceptable anymore.

I am loving the team this year, but that's largely down to the new signings, and their commitment to the club and the influence their attitude is having on the rest of the squad. Now some of the players from last year are working their way back, but there is a long road ahead for someone like Rashford, because his behavior last year was unacceptable, Sancho too, because his purple patch lasted for about a month after Ralf arrived.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

He's 22, we don't need to do anything except be patient and hope Ten Hag can help turn him into the player he has the potential to be

This. Same lot shouting about Sancho have given Shaw 8 years.

The trajectory of the team is upwards, should he fail to keep up so be it but we’re not at the point of being radical. Writing off a 22 y/o ffs!

 

[RedDevil@84]

This. Same lot shouting about Sancho have given Shaw 8 years.

The trajectory of the team is upwards, should he fail to keep up so be it but we’re not at the point of being radical. Writing off a 22 y/o ffs!

Is 23 a good age to write off or 24 or do we need to wait 8 years like Shaw?

I think carrying players for too long has been an issue in past decade for us.

There should be some reasonable timeframe after which we should be looking beyond a player, rather than keeping him in hope that that some day he is gonna show something.

All this is pure specualtion though. Realistically, I don't see the player foregoing his hefty salary to move somewhere else.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

Is 23 a good age to write off or 24 or do we need to wait 8 years like Shaw?

I think carrying players for too long has been an issue in past decade for us.

There should be some reasonable timeframe after which we should be looking beyond a player, rather than keeping him in hope that that some day he is gonna show something.

All this is pure specualtion though. Realistically, I don't see the player foregoing his hefty salary to move somewhere else.

18 months isn’t particularly reasonable timeframe, especially when you take into account last season has been written off for many.

I’m as disappointed as anyone as I rate the lad highly but this is the club of infinite chances for some players so I’d give the boy a while longer yet.

Carrying players is indeed an issue but he isn’t going anywhere soon so the best bet is to hope for an upturn in performances. Holding onto a talented 22 year old is hardly extending an oft injured Phil Jones.

 

[kouroux]

A spell on the bench and how he reacts to it will be important. If it makes him wake up then it's all good and if not then prepare for other alternatives long term

 

[Lentwood]

We've hamstrung ourselves by paying ludicrous wages

At this point, there's zero chance of us being able to sell him. Even if someone was willing to pay £40/50m, they'd never match his wages.

I'm not saying we should give up because there's definitely a talented footballer in there but this should be (another) lesson for the club - those numbers should only be given to players who have earnt their stripes and won major trophies. You don't give those wages to 'up and coming' talent because it means you're stuck with them for better or for worse.

If we weren't paying such daft wages, we'd have options. We could give him one more season and then look to a Newcastle/Spurs/Everton-type to take him on if he doesn't improve. Now, we've got no options, we've gone another four seasons whether he's good, bad or downright ugly

 

[DarkXaero]

A spell on the bench and how he reacts to it will be important. If it makes him wake up then it's all good and if not then prepare for other alternatives long term

I agree with this. He should be benched in current form and he should be made to earn his place in the starting XI. I think if Martial wasn't injured, Sancho would be on the bench.

He does have age on his side and yes, he should be given time to improve, but some fans are making way too many excuses for him. It's not a small sample size of him being underwhelming, and the issue with him lacking the right attitude & mentality is very real. He needs to change his attitude or he'll go down as another failure here.

 

[Tigersam]

I wonder if the medical people could look at his diet or possibly give him some (legal) supplements or something.

What was he eating in Germany that he isn't eating now, I'd be interested to know?

I remember reading one of the first things EtH did upon becoming manager was banning players from having their own chefs (presumably to build team spirit by having the team eat together). However I'm sure a club the size and wealth of Man Utd. still employs dieticians and the players won't have to all eat the same thing like some school canteen scenario, so he could have something specific for his fitness if it helps him. He seems slow for a winger and also runs out of puff around the 50-60 minute mark yet he is a young man, it is strange.

 

[Abraxas]

Don't know why it keeps getting stated that last season is written off.

How the hell do you come to the conclusion that rather than holding the players accountable and putting a black mark against their name that they need to remove through better endeavour and ultimately performance that they can essentially wash their hands of it.

Theres no safety in numbers just because the majority were crap and put in poor efforts. If you were also putting in poor effort which I would argue Sancho has been judging by his fitness levels in games, then no, you don't just get it written off - you were part of that problem.

Not to say he shouldn't get more time, he should. Partly because he just should and partly because we've no fecking choice. But let's state it as it is, we're a season and a bit into his lacklustre start at the club.

 

[OrcaFat]

That is a really expensive (80m) squad player and you saying we offered him more than 300k pw wages to not be the "first name on the teamsheet guy"? Recknon his wages is even more than Arsenal's wingers Saka and Martinelli combined ffs.

Not sure what point you are making. You want him sold? You think he is first name on team sheet? Or you’re saying he is an expensive flop? Can’t tell from your post.

 

[Marwood]

Said it a number of times but the guy is soft. Very talented and I want him to make it but he isn't cut out for the grind of winning the big trophies.

 

[Tarrou]

there isn't a lot we can do other than keep working with him and hope he improves, nobody is buying him from us

he'll be dropped as soon as that is a possibility, obviously

upto him then to work hard and get his place back

 

[2 man midfield]

He was bad, like harmfully bad the other day but we all know there’s a player in there somewhere. Once we have a system fully up and running we’ve got more chance of seeing the best of him, otherwise we’re basically doing what we did with kagawa: taking a neat and tidy, creative system player, sticking them on the wing and telling them to just do their thing.

Just hope Ten Hag can unlock that talent, otherwise I can see him being sold back to Dortmund in a couple years time for a third of what we paid.