What do we do about Sancho? Now and longer term

We help him back and stick with him. As a fan base we can encourage him and not groan if something doesn't come off.

If you watch his time at Dortmund you see a player that is always looking to take players on and drive forward. If there's a coach that can help him back it's ETH, just might take longer as Sancho has been in a slump for a long time coming into the shit show.
 
Don't write him off yet. Give him some time and if need be loan him out.
 
Sancho always seems to try to 'front up' the opposition in 1 to 1, situations; or allows himself to get fronted up. Clearly, he needs a link person in the centre who understand his moves and visa-versa. Should imagine he could be a good 'pass and move ' player in the right position, but not only is he looking more and more like a fish out of water, it does not seem to disturb him, or appear to... maybe that's a good thing? I can't make my mind up, but at the moment he is little more than a passenger.
 
harms said:
I think people are way too eager to completely give up on players, especially young ones — you see it with Sancho and Amad now, you saw it with Dalot (someone who never even showed the potential that those two did) earlier.

Sancho has been largely underwhelming during his time here even though he's had a good spell last season and scored a couple of important goals in this one. Yet his biggest problem seems to be his mentality, not his technical deficiency — the lack of aggression, willingness to run at defenders and general intensity. We finally have a brilliant manager in place — and we've only had him for what, 4 months of proper training? Can't you guys wait a little bit? And don't give me the Borussia argument — he wasn't playing in a well-oiled machine that was Klopp's Dortmund and he did perform outstandingly there, often despite the run of the game.

We don't need to make a decision now — we're not going to sell him this winter anyway. And I wouldn't say that he's actively hurting this club at the moment like, say, Cristiano does — the worst case scenario, he's left on the bench or subbed off. If we won't see any improvement — and something tells me that we will, then ten Hag will let the management know.
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I would also add that playing under his 3rd manager at the club hasn’t helped. He came into an unstable and disjointed club/squad. Things are gradually improving and the stability that ten Hag is bringing will eventually show for Sancho in more consistently good performances.
 
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redshaw said:
We help him back and stick with him. As a fan base we can encourage him and not groan if something doesn't come off.

If you watch his time at Dortmund you see a player that is always looking to take players on and drive forward. If there's a coach that can help him back it's ETH, just might take longer as Sancho has been in a slump for a long time coming into the shit show.
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Exactly this. Fans these days are so quick to turn on players. He’s our player we know what he’s capable of and he’s showed it in glimpses so why not stick with him through whatever he’s going through?

Like you said , we’ve a great coach in ETH and I’m sure he’ll get him back to his level though it’ll take time. It’s not like Sancho is a bad influence or anything like that.
 
In the short term we wait until Martial is back and then drop Sancho to the bench. In the longer term we have to hope that he can become acclimated to what Ten Hag wants and find some confidence or whatever it is it that is currently missing, I'm not sure he's had a single notably good game for us since he joined and more often than not at the moment he's completely anonymous in games.

Regardless of the level of the Bundesliga compared to the Premier League there's no way a player can produce the statistics he did being so uninvolved and unengaged in games but hopefully he will rediscover that, he's still young and we're desperately short of depth in attacking areas so he has time.
 
Calm the feck down, it's only been 10 games in the PL with the new manager, a lot of players are still finding their feet. Some take longer than others.
 
He has this season to come around, ten Hag has proved he doesn't have a soft spot for anyone.

I think Maguire will be definitely moved on next summer as I can't imagine him setting for a rotation option. Sancho may join him as well, unfortunately unless Martial comes back to fitness and Rashford starts on the left we have no real competition for him.
 
He looked good for Dortmund even in the UCL. But for us, good performances are very rare even under Ten Hag when everyone else has stepped up. You can argue that maybe he doesn't play well with Shaw or that Rashford playing as a no 9 is hindering him bit his own individual game was poor yesterday. Based on his Dortmund days, I believe in his talent but that may not be enough in the Premier league.
 
Sancho’s issue is not quality. Nothing separating him from Antony, Foden, Jota, Bernardo, Diaz etc. imo.

It is his attitude, style, approach to playing. It’s just too cool for school…he seems like he thinks he is too good/slick/skilful to do the basics. Bernardo, Foden etc. scrap like maniacs and hassle and press all day…yet look amazing on the ball…so glad to see Antony doing similar. Sancho, Rashfrod, Jesse, Mason…all seem less arsed somehow which appears to be a cultural thing at United over the last 10 years.
 
The problem is his astronomical wages. Should have offered him 150k pw for a starting contract and only then renew for higher wages if he performs. To offer him straight up 300k without even proving himself is just braindead decision.
 
He’s lazy. That’s his biggest issue.

In terms of talent, he’s one of the best in the side. But he doesn’t want it enough.
 
I think it's only fair to write off last season, seeing as practically no one on the team performed well. It was his first season in the PL too.

We're still in October and Sancho is just 22 years old. At the very least give him this season. If there has been no improvement before next summer then we could consider selling him.
 
We have him and Rashford, why would we need to do anything right now?

Just play whoever’s on form.
 
I wish he wasn’t so obsessed with only playing on the left, I think his skills are well suited to the right to run and cross the ball/cut the ball back into the box.

On the left, he just cuts inside but he doesn’t have a particularly ferocious shot or turn of pace so he just ends up laying it off a lot of the time.
 
RedSky said:
Rashford is a big part of the problem with our attack right now. He's just not a very good CF. We look far better with Martial in the side and that improves our attacking players. Rashford also is much better on the left too.

The big issue with Sancho is he doesn't seem to have any chemistry with Shaw. Which is a big problem.
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I would read that as Martial's ability to stay fit as being our biggest problem. I agree that when he is fit and playing as our CF we look a better balanced team.
 
He hasn't been anywhere near good enough if we're honest and the lack of intensity in his game is quite alarming. But if we attempt to look deeper into Sancho's time at Dortmund where many couldn't look past his individual numbers, the role of Favre and the total team dynamic which involved players like Achraf Hakimi was far more important than the numbers Jadon Sancho was putting up, because the 'heavy lifting' was being done by several other players, and Hakimi being the main one as i'll demonstrate below.

Favre's Dormund was a fantastic team that played attractive football and should've beaten Bayern to the title but squandered a very healthy lead to throw away the title and Bayern ended up winning it by 2 points. Favre's Dortmund was the best Dortmund team since Klopp imo.

It's important to try and understand who the players are, who help the team sustain pressure and not only focus on the players playing in the most advanced areas of the pitch who end up being in positions to either score or make the final pass before a shot. Because if some of you remember, Nagelsmann mentioned in one of his press conferences prior to the game against United in the UCL, that he didn't really focus on how many goals or assists the likes of Rashford and Martial were putting up, but was more concerned with where the build up began from and how it developed and how he could blunt United whilst they were building play or transitioning play. So if he blunts the build up/ transition, he blunts the fowards in the process. And that's not unique to Nagelsmann but to most competent head coaches who look to dampen the flames before they engulf you.

So if we look at Dortmund and apply the the xG build up stat to see who was the most important player in their build up phase, the answer was Achraf Hakimi. And when Hakimi was involved in the build up/transition, the chances of Dortmund scoring a goal was at it's highest. And when Favre switched formation in the 19/20 season with wingbacks, Hakimi's influence was even greater in the xG build up stat, which in-turn meant Sancho's individual numbers increased further. So the heavy lifting as I call it was done by several players other than Sancho and the xG build up stat supports what I saw with my eyes. Which is that Hakimi was the biggest threat to the opponent, because when he was involved in the build up/transition, Dortmund were at their most dangerous and likeliest to score.

18/19 season below


Achraf Hakimi: 3.93
Julian Brandt: 3.58
Mats Hummels: 3.58
Marco Reus: 3.56
Jadon Sancho: 3.50

19/20 season below with wingbacks.

Achraf Hakimi: 8.29
Raphael Guerreiro: 8.07
Julian Brandt: 6.65
Lucas Piszczek: 6.12
Jadon Sancho: 6.12

So the bigger the influence of players like Hakimi, the better Sancho's numbers looked.


Sancho left a club with players who were strong in the build up phase under a coach who had successfully implemented a proactive attacking plan, where they almost beat Bayern to the title. And we can and will improve our build up/transitions which may help him. But imo, if after two years we aren't seeing the player we thought we had brought over from Dortmund, then we should move him on and either look to someone like Garnacho or look to sign Rafael Leao, Mudryk or the lad at Napoli.

The biggest worry with Sancho for me is that he looks timid and plays with very little intensity. Opinions are subject to change, but as things stand, he needs to show alot more to justify the investment that has been made on him.
 
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NewGlory said:
You should email or text Erik. One of the best managers in the world could really use this wisdom from a random poster on a fan forum
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Why do you think that this post in any way contradicts what ten Hag does now?
 
I think he’ll do better when we have an actual centre forward who’ll drag the defence when making runs.

Rashford seems clueless on it and Sancho is surrounded whenever he tries to dribble towards the centre of the pitch and has to resort to either passing it to Shaw who’s making a run down the flank or Bruno/Eriksen who’ll switch it to the right.
 
He’s a weak link for us on the left. And with Rashford having to play cf, we’re weak there too. What we needed was someone like Vinicius Jr or even Saint Maximin. Someone fearless about trying to beat defenders almost all the time, and with the pace and strength to do it.
All we can do for now is hope he improves or Garnacho/Elanga really step up when played.
 
Wouldn't give up on him yet but he is perhaps the only player who doesn't seem to have improved under ETH, not sure why that is but it's a bit if a concern.

He really needs to get stuck in and up the work rate. Poster above makes a good point about having a striker who he might work better with, we really need a Mark Hughes type up there to hold the ball up and bring others into play.
 
He needs to be trained to up his intensity and stamina. He also needs to always have an attack mindset when he picks up the ball. He is far too casual every single time he picks the ball up and it kills so many attacks.
 
Dont see why anything needs to be done. He's an option. One thing I'll say is I've never viewed him as great on the left. He's always seemed better on the right for me.

The big thing with him is he needs to make the final pass, crosss or shot much quicker. He takes too much time just waiting. I don't think he's poor, but he has to improve on his pressing, his getting on the ball and his end product. Yes he's expensive, but he's young and has time to grow with Antony and Rashford mostly starting. He can be our own Joe Cole
 
Kag said:
What is the fascination on here with selling players? We’ve barely got enough of the feckers as it is. Weirdos.
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So you can recoup as much of his transfer fee as possible and put that money into signings that are ETH choices. Players he sees taking us forward not only in ability but mentality wise too.

personally I’d keep him because I think there’s a lot there with him (if he can work on physicality and aggression) but I would get it if they could get 60mil for him and put it elsewhere. He is also on massive wages and I think many clubs wouldn’t match it. I don’t know why we sign young players like this who haven’t proven much and give them ridiculous wages. Just makes things harder if it doesn’t work out.
 
Needs an overlapping full back all the time to compensate his lack of pace. Once that players’ developed in Malacia, he’ll be an awful lot better
 
He’s honestly not that high on our concern list IMHO. He’s shown plenty to feel that he has potential and there is zero reason to bail on him as he’s still young. Patience is needed here.
 
He needs competition. When our options are too thin, and if he’s basically gauranteed a starting spot, he’s not going to show his best form. A bit like Luke Shaw.
 
Dannn411 said:
He needs to be trained to up his intensity and stamina. He also needs to always have an attack mindset when he picks up the ball. He is far too casual every single time he picks the ball up and it kills so many attacks.
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I agree with you about the attack mindset. He’s not taking enough risks. With better options at #9, Rashford becomes his competition for a starting spot on the left. When he knows he cant take anythinh for granted, he may start putting in a higher level of performance.
 
Its not like there isnt talent there. So Ten Hag needs to work with him and get him up to speed on the PL. At some point though, he will have to admit defeat and sell him back to Dortmund or something. Some other league where he can excel. Just as long as we dont have another Jesse Lingard situation where we are still talking about him coming good as he knocks on his 30th birthday. Hopefully, it happens for him here and he can be a good player for us.
 
We show some patience with a player slightly younger than Antony.
 
Giggsy13 said:
I would also add that playing under his 3rd manager at the club hasn’t helped. He came into an unstable and disjointed club/squad. Things are gradually improving and the stability that ten Hag is bringing will eventually show for Sancho in more consistently good performances.
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He had a very good pre season! He was obviously our player of the preseason. Maybe he needs a better CF because he is a very good link up player. When Martial comes back, we will know more what his situation will be. This was a player I rated more than Rashford in the England setup
 
Hes more of a wide playmaker than a tradional winger isnt he? More about playing one-two and creating opportunites than beating a man and getting a cross in.

Dont think we will see the best of either sancho or antony until the fullback positions are sorted out. ETH likes inverted wingers, and that means you need overlaping fullbacks to get wide, get crosses in but also open up the space for sancho and athony to cut inside and play their one-twos etc. Also as others have said we need a forward who they can play off and who can play them in. Maybe thats why we have so much interest in joao felix (alledgly).

It has suprised me, having seen so little or either winger before they joined utd that neither has killer pace like a robben/ribery/sane. But gotta trust ETH.

Might be a controversal take, but id swap him for gnarby or sane in a heartbeat.
 
Give him this season and if he showed promised then half a season more but that should be the extent of it, if it didn't work by then we should part ways, it'll be a waste of everyone's time otherwise and he'll be better off somewhere where his football could shine.
 
Why dont TH swap him and Sancho around during a match? Has he ever been tried in the middle?
 
RedSky said:
Rashford is a big part of the problem with our attack right now. He's just not a very good CF. We look far better with Martial in the side and that improves our attacking players. Rashford also is much better on the left too.

The big issue with Sancho is he doesn't seem to have any chemistry with Shaw. Which is a big problem.
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This. Sancho would look a lot better with a true striker he can link up with, Rashford lacks the movement and interplay. He needs to figure out how to play with Shaw though and how to impact a game without his preferred players around him.
 
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